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D3 said..?


Why don't you back up your assertions?

Why? Well obviously because I can't.
Anyway we know that calcium travels through the blood, and given its required in the bones I doubt it's freely discarded in the urine. And if there's not enough vitamin K2 to get it from the blood to the bones then what's it going to do?

If only there was somewhere we could look to find the answers you seek.

Have you tried reading the published literature on this topic?

Regarding your comment whether elements or vitamins that are vital to the human body would be freely excreted in urine?
That's exactly what happens with many vitamins, so maybe you can explain why you don't think it will happen with calcium?

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Pcdefender said..
She looks nothing like a female growing up or at present.

Whether or not the athlete is or isn't a certain gender, bringing your personal opinion about a child's appearance into the mix would have to be your lowest comment to date.

I think there is a some confusion in the media about the correct use of the terms gender and sex.
Sex is determined by what sized gamete you produce. Eg females produce a large gamete (eggs), males produce small gametes(sperm).
Gender is a social construct and also very helpful explaining the differences in expression of different sex hormones. A female embryo that is subject to a the normal embryological developmental flood of testosterone AND has cells that are receptive to testosterone, will tend to show more of the characteristics of "maleness".
However she is still of the female sex. Womens sports that benefit from the testosterone enhanced strength/power will favour those females that have higher exposure/higher receptivity of testosterone in embryo. Just plain old nature and genetics at work. There is nothing to see here other than making click bait for the Abrahamic religious fundamentalists.
(I will admit that when surgical intervention has occurred things get a little more complicated.)
The basketball analogy is good. Those under 5'9" don't demand a Hobbit Division. I am sure some of them have some sort of obscure beneficial traits and I think normal height society as a whole has accepted them as useful, even if it's only for testing children's playground equipment.

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Brent in Qld said..

Pcdefender said..
She looks nothing like a female growing up or at present.

Whether or not the athlete is or isn't a certain gender, bringing your personal opinion about a child's appearance into the mix would have to be your lowest comment to date.

The Boxing Association does not allow 'her' to fight. No smoking gun there....

The I O C spends millions for dope testing but nothing for DNA testing.

Imagine wasting money on testing whether someone who was born female, is, wait for it, is female.
For goodness sake just turn yourself off, and then on again and see if that helps.

We should at the same time not be allowing a male athlete to bash up a female athlete which is why 'she' was not allowed to box under the International Boxing Association.

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fangman said..
.....The basketball analogy is good. Those under 5'9" don't demand a Hobbit Division...

meh. If the basketball analogy was 'good' then boxing wouldn't have weight divisions. That would be a like-for-like analogy.

But basketball is a non-contact sport. Most (all?) contact sports have rules that limit the physical differences of opponents via weight, sex, age etc.

If Pcd doesn't like this person competeing then he shouldn't have entered a competition against her. Oh hang-on......

Not sure which is worse, people being upset at her competing , or people being upset that people are upset.

Gotta admit though, it does seem weird the only requirement for sex based competition at the Olympics is what is typed on your passport. Would seem a much easier and much less risky way for the Chinese to win than doping. Just call Paul Sue and Bob's your uncle aunt.

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Pcdefender said..
We should at the same time not be allowing a male athlete to bash up a female athlete which is why 'she' was not allowed to box under the International Boxing Association.

She produces eggs, her sex is female. Just because you are not attracted to her doesn't change her sex. Get over it.
The IBA would let her do anything if her manager slipped money into the right hands. They are demonstrably corrupt.

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Pcdefender said..

Brent in Qld said..

Pcdefender said..
She looks nothing like a female growing up or at present.

Whether or not the athlete is or isn't a certain gender, bringing your personal opinion about a child's appearance into the mix would have to be your lowest comment to date.

The Boxing Association does not allow 'her' to fight. No smoking gun there....

The I O C spends millions for dope testing but nothing for DNA testing.

So you are implying the use of science to refute an ignorant opinion?

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Pcdefender said..

The Boxing Association does not allow 'her' to fight. No smoking gun there....

The I O C spends millions for dope testing but nothing for DNA testing.

That was me boxing association was banned.

I'll ask again, how would you determine the gender of competitors?

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Pcdefender said..
We should at the same time not be allowing a male athlete to bash up a female athlete which is why 'she' was not allowed to box under the International Boxing Association.

Which competition has a male athlete bashing up a female?

There is a transgender athlete competing in the Paris Olympics boxing. How do your feel about that?

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Carantoc said..

meh. If the basketball analogy was 'good' then boxing wouldn't have weight divisions. That would be a like-for-like analogy.

But basketball is a non-contact sport. Most (all?) contact sports have rules that limit the physical differences of opponents via weight, sex, age etc.

If Pcd doesn't like this person competeing then he shouldn't have entered a competition against her. Oh hang-on......

Not sure which is worse, people being upset at her competing , or people being upset that people are upset.

Gotta admit though, it does seem weird the only requirement for sex based competition at the Olympics is what is typed on your passport. Would seem a much easier and much less risky way for the Chinese to win than doping. Just call Paul Sue and Bob's your uncle aunt.

She was born a female, that's why her passport says "Female".

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remery said..

Carantoc said..

meh. If the basketball analogy was 'good' then boxing wouldn't have weight divisions. That would be a like-for-like analogy.

But basketball is a non-contact sport. Most (all?) contact sports have rules that limit the physical differences of opponents via weight, sex, age etc.

If Pcd doesn't like this person competeing then he shouldn't have entered a competition against her. Oh hang-on......

Not sure which is worse, people being upset at her competing , or people being upset that people are upset.

Gotta admit though, it does seem weird the only requirement for sex based competition at the Olympics is what is typed on your passport. Would seem a much easier and much less risky way for the Chinese to win than doping. Just call Paul Sue and Bob's your uncle aunt.

She was born a female, that's why her passport says "Female".

I mentioned it before and I can see why people are getting bothered by this. I had to listen to a bunch of friends get all riled up yesterday for the same reason PM33 is (supposedly).

The comments from the IBO make it unclear if she is male or female. They allude to either she is XY or has too much testosterone, but there is no definitive answer. It could be complete rubbish, but the media aren't making much of a distinction and you know how deep people look into what the media reports.

Talk about a manufactured controversy!

People don't even have to be Trans for other people to accuse them of being so in order to drum up panic.


I just think it's hilarious that PC is parroting quite a few mainstream media sources with this

An XY embryo that has a cellular makeup that demonstrates testosterone resistance, will exhibit the characteristics of being female.
In some cultures this is accepted as quite normal and even treasured. As I said, it seems only the Abrahamic religions get their knickers in a twist about it, just about everyone else accepts the fluidity of the expression of sex characteristics.
An XY(male) embryo will form testes that then increase the amount of testosterone and trigger the development of male genitalia and male characteristics.
XX embryos form ovaries which produce much smaller amounts of testosterone. However, this along with maternal testosterone and/or a cellular sensitivity to testosterone can result in an XX person, with female genitalia, but exhibiting some of the characteristics of a male. Similarly, androgen ( e.g. testosterone) formation in the body increases in both sexes during puberty. A tiny number of XX people may produce enough of their own testosterone or have sensitivity to testosterone such that they develop male characteristics.
They are still female.

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D3 said..
If only there was somewhere we could look to find the answers you seek.

Have you tried reading the published literature on this topic?

Regarding your comment whether elements or vitamins that are vital to the human body would be freely excreted in urine?
That's exactly what happens with many vitamins, so maybe you can explain why you don't think it will happen with calcium?

That's a valid response.
But if I rely on published literature I'll believe the human body doesn't produce allantoin, when every other living plant or animal does. I'm more inclined to believe that everyone who was tested had gout, because why would you test anyone that doesn't have a problem.
There's also published literature proving statins as antidepressants. Meh.

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fangman said..
An XY embryo that has a cellular makeup that demonstrates testosterone resistance, will exhibit the characteristics of being female.

I have to say that I learned all about this from an episode of "House". It is where all my medical knowledge has come from

I appreciate you spelling it out though. It is easy to forget what others do and don't know, and to be fair I know about as much about it as the episode of House goes into which is not much.

This whole area is complex as not only are your genes going one way, but your brain could be going a different way during gestation.

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D3 said..
Talk about a manufactured controversy!

People don't even have to be Trans for other people to accuse them of being so in order to drum up panic.


I just think it's hilarious that PC is parroting quite a few mainstream media sources with this

Again.

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D3 said..
I just think it's hilarious that PC is parroting quite a few mainstream media sources with this

Yes. The irony is worthy. (but his does have a IV line from Fox/Sky and posters of Rupert Murdoch on his bedroom door).
lol.

The funniest thing is that s/he likes to bang on about MSM like it's a bad thing, when their whole world view is based on the ultimate main stream publication. That is the religious writings that weren't censored out of existence by 1000 years of Roman Catholic dominance.

S/he might like to consider the way the current version of the Bible was reached. According to Catherine Nixey, (who is a classics scholar from Oxbridge) there are several other versions of the Jesus story that got edited out but still exist in the churches that arose from the apostle who went to India and the one that went up the Nile to Ethiopia. Her book is called "Heresy". It came out last year.
She has another one "Darkening Age", that describes how the Romans wiped out Greek Philosophy and Pagan worship from about AD 400-600. Both interesting reads.

I was watching the 18th hole of the 4th round and man they have had the sprayers out bigtime to celebrate the Olympics.

Sky was absolutely covered in 'condensation' trails according anyway to their science

Hey Carantoc.
Is this just another one of your recommendations to ignore PC?

Not sure which is worse, people being upset at her competing , or people being upset that people are upset.

What is your take on PCs comments in this area?

Hey D3,

Glad you asked.

I'd say same as my take on just about all of PC's comments.

I do not believe that they are made with malice or threat and I do not chose to be offended by them. But I disagree with them, both in the logic they are based on and the generality of the conclusion they make.

I believe they are based on a process of childish ignorance and extreme gullibility. They are consistent in the unwavering desire to believe the counter narative to everything and anything in order, presumably, to feel special in "knowing" something that PC believes others don't.

But I don't mind reading them. And I don't hold anything against PC for having those opinions or making them on here. And if I wanted to change them I wouldn't do it by starting a thread to troll him and then repeatedly call him an idiot. I think that would just make me more of an idiot than him.

On the particular subject at hand I have no knowledge of the individuals involved. My ignorant take on it all is how easily the Italian boxer gave up. Somebody hurt her nose - boo-hoo. She chose to box, what does she expect ?. At the time no blood, no apparent bruising, no redness even. On the replays it looked more like shock than pain. Seen plenty of boxers and other sports people who seem to have alot more determination than she did. Some have to be physically stopped when they have lost all sense of reason but keep fighting on instinct. From the replays I have seen the fighter won the match. Which I think is the aim of the game.

I have no knowledge of the lady's genitalia, chromosomes, childhood or testosterone levels like some people above seem to be claiming they do have.

But - and as a side note I do find it curious that in one of the ultimate contact sports that categorise participants by sex ad by weight, for there own safety, weight is closely monitored by offical weight-ins etc. but the IOC sates that sex is just whatever is printed on the passport. For sure weight changes and is easy to change, but, as a hypothetical question, if say Mike Tyson aplied for citizenship of North Korean and they gave him a North Korean passport that said Michelle Tyson, female - should that be the only requirement to determine elidgibility for him to have then entered a female class at the Olympics ?

But here is the key - when I wonder about this side note it doesn't make me agree with PC's point. But expressing such side-notes does seem to confuse some forum'ers into thinking that because I don't simply disagree with everything PC says and call him an idiot, I must be in agreement with him.

And I find this both amusing and a personal challenge.

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Carantoc said..
Hey D3,

Glad you asked.

I'd say same as my take on just about all of PC's comments.

I do not believe that they are made with malice or threat and I do not chose to be offended by them. But I disagree with them, both in the logic they are based on and the generality of the conclusion they make.

I believe they are based on a process of childish ignorance and extreme gullibility. They are consistent in the unwavering desire to believe the counter narative to everything and anything in order, presumably, to feel special in "knowing" something that PC believes others don't.

But I don't mind reading them. And I don't hold anything against PC for having those opinions or making them on here. And if I wanted to change them I wouldn't do it by starting a thread to troll him and then repeatedly call him an idiot. I think that would just make me more of an idiot than him.

On the particular subject at hand I have no knowledge of the individuals involved. My ignorant take on it all is how easily the Italian boxer gave up. Somebody hurt her nose - boo-hoo. She chose to box, what does she expect ?. At the time no blood, no apparent bruising, no redness even. On the replays it looked more like shock than pain. Seen plenty of boxers and other sports people who seem to have alot more determination than she did. Some have to be physically stopped when they have lost all sense of reason but keep fighting on instinct. From the replays I have seen the fighter won the match. Which I think is the aim of the game.

I have no knowledge of the lady's genitalia, chromosomes, childhood or testosterone levels like some people above seem to be claiming they do have.

But - and as a side note I do find it curious that in one of the ultimate contact sports that categorise participants by sex ad by weight, for there own safety, weight is closely monitored by offical weight-ins etc. but the IOC sates that sex is just whatever is printed on the passport. For sure weight changes and is easy to change, but, as a hypothetical question, if say Mike Tyson aplied for citizenship of North Korean and they gave him a North Korean passport that said Michelle Tyson, female - should that be the only requirement to determine elidgibility for him to have then entered a female class at the Olympics ?

But here is the key - when I wonder about this side note it doesn't make me agree with PC's point. But expressing such side-notes does seem to confuse some forum'ers into thinking that because I don't simply disagree with everything PC says and call him an idiot, I must be in agreement with him.

And I find this both amusing and a personal challenge.

Some good points there. I am continually asking myself whether I should bother to challenge PM33's trolling. Recently, I am also influenced by an article that @myscreename posted on one of these threads about trolls, and the damage they do. Whether or not the posts are made with or without malice or threat is immaterial. There is always a chance that someone reading this forum will be hurt by some of the offensive material he posts. If that person is in a psychologically vulnerable place, they need to see that his posts are challenged and someone is batting for them.

The riots in the UK were caused by racist, bigoted misinformation being spread on social media.

Exactly!

Misinformation spread on social media identified a student as the Sydney mall attacker thereby outraging anti-semites.

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remery said..
The riots in the UK were caused by racist, bigoted misinformation being spread on social media.

I thought this thread was about skepticism and critical thinking.

The rallies held in aus by leftist groups on domestic violence being at crisis point not that long ago were also driven by, and were driving misinformation when you look up the actual stats. But wrong side of politics to be given the misinformation label.

not condoning how bad the uk riots actually got, or the people who started them, but misinformation isn't just a right wing thing.