Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

philn said..

myscreenname said..
he will be a disaster for America.

Too late in life for me to emigrate, but maybe my kids will leave the USA. I've always thought America one of the best countries in the world (probably just brainwashing, but it really felt that way to me). Be sad when the USA is objectively no longer a great country.

I am guessing you vote progressive but long for the good old days, FFS wake up

What's wrong if he wants to return to the "good old days" when the USA had governments that believed in;

1- expansion of social security;
2- broadened coverage in unemployment insurance;
3- improved housing;
4- better health protection for all people;
5- the most widely shared economic benefits ever seen;
6- recognition of organised labour;
7- a higher minimum wage;
8- government assistance to workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers
9 - CEOs earning about 20 times as much as the average instead of 200 to 400 times as much.

Do those sound like bad things to return to?

As far as "FFS wake up", is that the best you can do in terms of actually having a reasoned discussion?

Look at California as an example of progress, what a mess, full of drugs, homelessness, poverty, unemployment, it looks like a sewer. Small business is fleeing, middle class has all but disappeared, law and order is evaporating.

Vote for progressive policies you get progressive outcomes, if I am being generous the best I could say about them is they are unintended.

"CEO pay slightly declined in 2022But it has soared 1,209.2% since 1978 compared with a 15.3% rise in typical workers' pay"

www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/

Select to expand quote

remery said..
"CEO pay slightly declined in 2022But it has soared 1,209.2% since 1978 compared with a 15.3% rise in typical workers' pay"

www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/

Most CEO's these days are lefty elitist's, you know, WEF types

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Most CEO's these days are lefty elitist's, you know, WEF types

Resorting to the strawman argument with more unsubstantiated 'hearsay'.

F'Off to Florida, and help remove all the garbage and MAGA - your team won.

Select to expand quote

myscreenname said..

- your team won.

Are you talking about the NO vote or Israel or the LNP

Select to expand quote

cammd said..
Are you talking about the NO vote or Israel or the LNP

How abouts we start with Chris 249s response to:

"I am guessing you vote progressive but long for the good old days, FFS wake up"

Explain what you mean without the strawman argument about California.

After that we can move on to your other idiotic posts in this thread.

Select to expand quote

myscreenname said..

cammd said..
Are you talking about the NO vote or Israel or the LNP

How abouts we start with Chris 249s response to:

"I am guessing you vote progressive but long for the good old days, FFS wake up"

Explain what you mean without the strawman argument about California.

After that we can move on to your other idiotic posts in this thread.

Your hard work, I'll try to make it as simple as I can for you.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

More welfare and dependence on government formexame social housing is a big lefty push right now. Imagine the ghettos of the future.
Higher cost of living driven by climate alarmists for example power bills
More lenient treatment of criminals as law and order is eroded. See qld Labor for examples
Harder to to do business and red and green tape grow. Small business suffers most.
Middle class is being eroded, even trying to set up your future with a few investments comes under attack by tax hungry leftists
More drugs and drug addict as governments make access easier, see Victoria pill testing just last week
Families values being replaced by woke ideology.
Victimhood is righteouness, see terrorist sympathisers

The further we progess to the left the worse out living standards become.

So ....wake up FFS and vote conservative if you would like this generation to have it as good as previous ones.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Your hard work, I'll try to make it as simple as I can for you.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

More welfare and dependence on government formexame social housing is a big lefty push right now. Imagine the ghettos of the future.
Higher cost of living driven by climate alarmists for example power bills
More lenient treatment of criminals as law and order is eroded. See qld Labor for examples
Harder to to do business and red and green tape grow. Small business suffers most.
Middle class is being eroded, even trying to set up your future with a few investments comes under attack by tax hungry leftists
More drugs and drug addict as governments make access easier, see Victoria pill testing just last week
Families values being replaced by woke ideology.
Victimhood is righteouness, see terrorist sympathisers

The further we progess to the left the worse out living standards become.

So ....wake up FFS and vote conservative if you would like this generation to have it as good as previous ones.

So it's what you define as 'left thinkers' are to blame for every problem with Western Society?

Population growth, changes in technology don't come into it?

FFS, that sounds very simplistic. Is that all you got?

Hey myscreenname,

Have you popped open your celebratory bottle of Aldi wine yet ?

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Carantoc said..
Hey myscreenname,

Have you popped open your celebratory bottle of Aldi wine yet ?

I'm on my second one. But not celebrating.

Financialy, I've done so well taking punts on various outcomes of things I'm passionate and think deeply about. But I'm not happy at all with the results. The each way bets, I take, help sweeten reality.

And of course being able to say.... #ITOLDYOUSO is kind of fun.

The increasing Bitcoin value should also help me get by when war breaks out next year.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Your hard work, I'll try to make it as simple as I can for you.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

More welfare and dependence on government formexame social housing is a big lefty push right now. Imagine the ghettos of the future.
Higher cost of living driven by climate alarmists for example power bills
More lenient treatment of criminals as law and order is eroded. See qld Labor for examples
Harder to to do business and red and green tape grow. Small business suffers most.
Middle class is being eroded, even trying to set up your future with a few investments comes under attack by tax hungry leftists
More drugs and drug addict as governments make access easier, see Victoria pill testing just last week
Families values being replaced by woke ideology.
Victimhood is righteouness, see terrorist sympathisers

The further we progess to the left the worse out living standards become.

So ....wake up FFS and vote conservative if you would like this generation to have it as good as previous ones.

Seems like the left are living inside your head rent free.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

philn said..

myscreenname said..
he will be a disaster for America.

Too late in life for me to emigrate, but maybe my kids will leave the USA. I've always thought America one of the best countries in the world (probably just brainwashing, but it really felt that way to me). Be sad when the USA is objectively no longer a great country.

I am guessing you vote progressive but long for the good old days, FFS wake up

What's wrong if he wants to return to the "good old days" when the USA had governments that believed in;

1- expansion of social security;
2- broadened coverage in unemployment insurance;
3- improved housing;
4- better health protection for all people;
5- the most widely shared economic benefits ever seen;
6- recognition of organised labour;
7- a higher minimum wage;
8- government assistance to workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers
9 - CEOs earning about 20 times as much as the average instead of 200 to 400 times as much.

Do those sound like bad things to return to?

As far as "FFS wake up", is that the best you can do in terms of actually having a reasoned discussion?

Look at California as an example of progress, what a mess, full of drugs, homelessness, poverty, unemployment, it looks like a sewer. Small business is fleeing, middle class has all but disappeared, law and order is evaporating.

Vote for progressive policies you get progressive outcomes, if I am being generous the best I could say about them is they are unintended.

Wow.

The first 8 things on that list came straight from Eisenhower's 1956 Republican party policy platform. The ninth was an outcome of that platform. Surely if you have any political knowledge and nous you would have noticed where those points I listed came from. If you didn't know enough about US political histories to recognise them, how can you actually claim to know what "progressive policies" lead to?

You don't appear to understand how different even the right was in the "good old days" when compared to the current right wingers. The right wingers used to understand that caring for other people was a good thing and that unrestrained capitalism was a bad thing (which is true even according to the strictest of old-school capitalist theoreticians who understood the need to restrict monopolies etc)".

When Philn feels nostalgic, perhaps he is thinking of a time when BOTH sides cared for the average person and improving their lot. What is so bad about that? Why did you have to insult him for apparently wanting the sort of society that Eisenhower wanted to give the USA as a Republican president?

As for the rest;

1- California has high homelessness because poor people move there to get a better deal than in right-wing states, and better weather.

2- It has crime, but crime is higher in some Republican states like Arkansas;

3- It has the fifth LOWEST unemployment rate of the 50 states. How can you honestly claim it has bad unemployment?

Come on, explain how being in the top 10% for high employment is a bad outcome. Play honestly - don't evade the question, just tell us.

4- Some people move out because it has expensive real estate because lots of successful people make a lot of money there.

5- Cal has the fifth HIGHEST gdp per capita. How the hell can you claim that as a bad thing?

It's ludicrous to claim that a state with very low unemployment and very high earnings is doing badly economically. How can you honestly justiify that?

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Look at California as an example of progress, what a mess, full of drugs, homelessness, poverty, unemployment, it looks like a sewer. Small business is fleeing, middle class has all but disappeared, law and order is evaporating.

Vote for progressive policies you get progressive outcomes, if I am being generous the best I could say about them is they are unintended.

How much time have you spent in California to make that judgement?

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

Chris 249 said..
9 - CEOs earning about 20 times as much as the average instead of 200 to 400 times as much.

I feel this needs to be fact checked.


Might be wrong but I think the famous (or infamous) modern CEO uber-wealth comes predominantly not from mega salaries, but from having a significant shareholding in the company. Generally they are the poeple who started the company and have remained as major shareholders and CEO after stockmarket listing.

Their wealth is then primarily driven by selling a company they remain in charge of, and then from other people piling into the shares, sending the share price soaring and so inflating whatever bonus and stock wealth the CEO has.

Zuckerberg for example earns $1 per year salary as Meta CEO. I'd suggest therefore his wealth comes not from stealing the effort his employees put in, but from stockmarket traders speculating on the share value.

Fact check;

I wasn't talking about uber-wealth but about CEOs as a whole. Most of them didn't found the company. As Harvard Business Review found, only about 20% of those who started a company remained as CEO until around the time of the IPO. So given that most companies run through plenty of CEOs, the proportion of current CEOs who founded the company must be vanishingly small - among Fortune 500 companies it's just 4.2%.

Since many major companies are quite old, the chances of their founder even being alive is pretty small.

It's fine to want to fact check but you can do it too.

Select to expand quote

remery said..

cammd said..

Look at California as an example of progress, what a mess, full of drugs, homelessness, poverty, unemployment, it looks like a sewer. Small business is fleeing, middle class has all but disappeared, law and order is evaporating.

Vote for progressive policies you get progressive outcomes, if I am being generous the best I could say about them is they are unintended.

How much time have you spent in California to make that judgement?

I saw 90210, California was much better in the old days

Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

Can't wait until the Jan 6 tradition of preparing for a peaceful hand over due to a rigged election. Let the games commence.

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

I call BS, no way would 1950's republicans support modern democrat values like

Transgender ideology like letting men pretend they are women, or assisting kids to mutilate their bodies
or
Open borders allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country
or
not prosecuting thieves and criminals if they didn't steal over $950
or
abortion on demand
or
DEI actions

as a few examples

^ what country are you living in?

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

Chris 249 said..
9 - CEOs earning about 20 times as much as the average instead of 200 to 400 times as much.

I feel this needs to be fact checked.


Might be wrong but I think the famous (or infamous) modern CEO uber-wealth comes predominantly not from mega salaries, but from having a significant shareholding in the company. Generally they are the poeple who started the company and have remained as major shareholders and CEO after stockmarket listing.

Their wealth is then primarily driven by selling a company they remain in charge of, and then from other people piling into the shares, sending the share price soaring and so inflating whatever bonus and stock wealth the CEO has.

Zuckerberg for example earns $1 per year salary as Meta CEO. I'd suggest therefore his wealth comes not from stealing the effort his employees put in, but from stockmarket traders speculating on the share value.

I'm pretty sure no one said CEOs are "stealing the effort" of their employees.

The comment was more to highlight the inequalities that are evident between employees and executives.

But I'd be surprised if the average CEO was earning more than 50 times the average employee salary, I think it's skewed because some high profile ones like Zuckerberg and musk.


Oh wait, never mind, survey S&P 500 CEOs showed that Chris is pretty close to the mark.

apnews.com/article/ceo-pay-compensation-ratio-workers-fa25db3338b68ad9eb395dfd46190383?origin=serp_auto

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

I call BS, no way would 1950's republicans support modern democrat values like

Transgender ideology like letting men pretend they are women, or assisting kids to mutilate their bodies
or
Open borders allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country
or
not prosecuting thieves and criminals if they didn't steal over $950
or
abortion on demand
or
DEI actions

as a few examples

Can you provide an example of Democratic party policies to assist kids mutilating there bodies?
Because that's not happening.
Who's BS narrative are you swallowing?

The USA has open borders? Really?


Are you saying that there are no modern day Republican values that you find distasteful? You'd be on board with all the policies and promises Trump has committed to?

Select to expand quote

D3 said..

Carantoc said..

Chris 249 said..
9 - CEOs earning about 20 times as much as the average instead of 200 to 400 times as much.

I feel this needs to be fact checked.


Might be wrong but I think the famous (or infamous) modern CEO uber-wealth comes predominantly not from mega salaries, but from having a significant shareholding in the company. Generally they are the poeple who started the company and have remained as major shareholders and CEO after stockmarket listing.

Their wealth is then primarily driven by selling a company they remain in charge of, and then from other people piling into the shares, sending the share price soaring and so inflating whatever bonus and stock wealth the CEO has.

Zuckerberg for example earns $1 per year salary as Meta CEO. I'd suggest therefore his wealth comes not from stealing the effort his employees put in, but from stockmarket traders speculating on the share value.

I'm pretty sure no one said CEOs are "stealing the effort" of their employees.

The comment was more to highlight the inequalities that are evident between employees and executives.

But I'd be surprised if the average CEO was earning more than 50 times the average employee salary, I think it's skewed because some high profile ones like Zuckerberg and musk.


Oh wait, never mind, survey S&P 500 CEOs showed that Chris is pretty close to the mark.

apnews.com/article/ceo-pay-compensation-ratio-workers-fa25db3338b68ad9eb395dfd46190383?origin=serp_auto

As mentioned before CEO's are increasingly left leaning, they are just another example of the hypocrisy of the left, they turn up to climate action conference's in a private jet sort of hypocrisy. Lefty Elitists.

I wonder if anyone can think of a local lefty ex CEO who lined his pockets while illegally sacking thousands and simultaneously preaching preaching to Australians about what they should think and do.

hbr.org/2018/01/the-new-ceo-activists

Soooo....
Lefties are against supporting workers rights and improving conditions for employees?

When did that happen?

Select to expand quote

D3 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

I call BS, no way would 1950's republicans support modern democrat values like

Transgender ideology like letting men pretend they are women, or assisting kids to mutilate their bodies
or
Open borders allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country
or
not prosecuting thieves and criminals if they didn't steal over $950
or
abortion on demand
or
DEI actions

as a few examples

Can you provide an example of Democratic party policies to assist kids mutilating there bodies?
Because that's not happening.
Who's BS narrative are you swallowing?

The USA has open borders? Really?


Are you saying that there are no modern day Republican values that you find distasteful? You'd be on board with all the policies and promises Trump has committed to?

www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

Democrats will vigorously oppose state and federal bans on gender-affirming health care and respect the role of parents, families, and doctors - Democrat Party Platform 2024

Giving a kid puberty blockers, that makes them sterile, is happening, surgical intervention is happening as well. That is literally assisting kids to mutilate their bodies.

As for open borders I guess the 5 to 10 Million illegal immigrants in recent years got in through sealed borders.

How do just ignore facts that no one disputes

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

I call BS, no way would 1950's republicans support modern democrat values like

Transgender ideology like letting men pretend they are women, or assisting kids to mutilate their bodies
or
Open borders allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country
or
not prosecuting thieves and criminals if they didn't steal over $950
or
abortion on demand
or
DEI actions

as a few examples

1- I said old Republicans "often" had values that seem left wing today. "Often" does not mean always. You can't have so totally missed the point that even the right wing used to care more about economic equality and social security than they do today, and yet you chose to zero in on a minority of issues as if I had said old-school Republicans always had values like that of the left wing today.

As far as transgender adults go, the right wing ethos used to be about freedom. Why, then, are you so keen on reducing a person's freedom when it comes to their own body?

2- You are simply incorrect that the old-school Republicans did not favour DEI-style actions. For example that same 1956 Republican party platform included an increase in "the vocational rehabilitation program to enable a larger number of the disabled to return to satisfying activity."

The Republicans were proud that "Great progress has been made in eliminating employment discrimination", proudly claimed an "impressive record of accomplishment in the field of civil rights" and referred to the fact that "the many Negroes who have been appointed to high public positions have played a significant part in the progress of this Administration." They "concur(red) in the conclusion of the Supreme Court that its decision directing school desegregation should be accomplished with "all deliberate speed" locally through Federal District Courts." The old-school Republicans spoke of their "enlightened policy" to assist Native Americans and even praised the Democrat's "progressive programmes" which the Reps promised to extend.

These are all "DEI-style" actions of the sort you claim did not happen. You are wrong. How do you just ignore facts that no reasonable person can dispute?

3- Sure, illegal immigration wasn't happening in such big numbers. The old Rep position was for INCREASED intake of refugees and displaced people and it supported "an immigration policy which is in keeping with the traditions of America in providing a haven for oppressed peoples" so they were NOT against immigration in general.

Oh, and when did the highest number of illegals come into the USA? In 2003, when the Republicans were in power (and starting wars). And what happened when there was bipartisan support for a bill to address illegal immigration this year? Trump blocked it TWICE. How do you blame the left for a problem that was at its worst under the right, and where the right recently opposed a solution?
How do you just ignore facts that no reasonable person can dispute?


4- The old-school Republicans also had a platform of conservation to "safeguard our precious soil and water resources for generations yet unborn" which included programmes to prevent wind erosion; they were expanding science; they affirmed their support for the UN and collective security; reducing barriers to international trade; and aid to developing nations. Those policies helped take the USA into the greatest period of economic growth ever known. They were the sort of policies that many of us were to benefit from when we were kids. It's perfectly reasonable to wish they still existed.

Trump isn't a conservative of the 20th and earlier 21st century type - he is if anything a throwback to the 1800s when life expectancy was short, economic inequality was extreme, and lynching and other crime was rampant. You may like the policies that lead to such outcomes but it's perfectly reasonable that not all of us do.

5- You haven't told us how California, with the 5th best employment rates and the 5th best crime rates out of 50 states, can be seen as "a mess" compared to most of the right wing states. Those are facts. How do you just ignore facts that no reasonable person can dispute?

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cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

.
In Western societies this generation is the first in many that looks like its standard of living will not be as good as the one before it. This is happening at the same time Western societies move more and more to the left.

That's not true. Tax rates have moved to the right, by favouring high earners. Differentials between the affluent and the average wage earner have increased dramatically - CEOs income compared to the average has increased by ten times since the post-war economic boom.

I notice that you make statements but run shy of providing evidence or any mention of objective measures - almost certainly because they will prove you wrong.

If you are such an expert why didn't you understand and recognise how far to the left the Republican Party platform of 1956 is compared to that of today? One doesn't expect you to pick up the exact facts, but the fact that you obviously had no idea of the way things used to be shows that you have no real knowledge of how they have changed.

Can't believe I didn't pick up on the 1956 Republican policy platform, you walked me straight into that trap, touche

The point was not to trap anyone per se - but to show how that your claims about others and history were untrue, to show how far the pendulum has swung to the right, and to show that Philn was perfectly consistent in being "Progressive" (which in US terms arguably means returning to 1950s Republican values) and in voting Democrat.

The period after WW2 when even "conservatives" often had values that seem left wing today saw huge advances in health, wealth and society in the western world. It's perfectly reasonable for Philn to want to return to that.

In many ways today's "conservatives" seem to be modelling their ideals on the period before WW1, and certainly before the Great Depression and WW2. That's arguably more regressive than it is conservative.

I call BS, no way would 1950's republicans support modern democrat values like

Transgender ideology like letting men pretend they are women, or assisting kids to mutilate their bodies
or
Open borders allowing millions of illegal immigrants into the country
or
not prosecuting thieves and criminals if they didn't steal over $950
or
abortion on demand
or
DEI actions

as a few examples

Can you provide an example of Democratic party policies to assist kids mutilating there bodies?
Because that's not happening.
Who's BS narrative are you swallowing?

The USA has open borders? Really?


Are you saying that there are no modern day Republican values that you find distasteful? You'd be on board with all the policies and promises Trump has committed to?

www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
Democrats will vigorously oppose state and federal bans on gender-affirming health care and respect the role of parents, families, and doctors - Democrat Party Platform 2024

Giving a kid puberty blockers, that makes them sterile, is happening, surgical intervention is happening as well. That is literally assisting kids to mutilate their bodies.

As for open border I guess the 5 to 10 Million illegal immigrants in recent years got in through sealed borders.

How do just ignore facts that no one disputes

Best practice Gender affirming care does not support or recommend surgery on children, but looking at the numbers that get it anyway? About the same as under the Trump administration..... (less than 300 a year) but yeah it definitely all the lefts fault.

Puberty blockers are not just handed out to whoever wants them, and they're not supposed to be used long-term, even then the risk of sterility is low.
Waaaaaaayyyy lower than the risks of NOT providing appropriate treatment to kids suffering Gender dysphoria. (You do know what those risks are, right?)

Aaaaahhh so, The democrats are responsible for all th border issues? I thought Trump built a wall to seal the southern border?
I thought that immigration was one of his big ticket items? So why did he actively sabotage bi-partisan policy to improve border security?

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Chris 249 said..

I said old Republicans "often" had values that seem left wing today. "Often" does not mean always.

You haven't told us how California, with the 5th best employment rates and the 5th best crime rates out of 50 states, can be seen as "a mess" compared to most of the right wing states. Please explain.

Prop 47 reclassified theft offenses from felonies to misdemeanors, including shoplifting.

that's an easy way to reduce crime