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Jeroensurf said..

Thatspec said..
forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/67

That is a great read, tons of info to sort through.

Regardless of whether you believe thickness or chord length has the greatest impact on drag (my gut says they're about equal factors), neither the NL or the new Cedrus can compete with the the Allure or Phantom masts. They (NL & Cedrus) are just "good" in the drag department and a slight step up in performance from stock manufacturers masts. They 'might' be stiffer but is that stiffness of noticeable benefit?

I think that is very much depending on your weight.Someone who is like 50-60 kg can get away with a less stiff mast to get the same feel as I do with my 95kg (and slowly shrinking).I tried the 14mm Fone mast and it is okay, but I feel it bending and twisting allover the place. That inflicts with steering and control.A local I had a chat with last week didn't notice that at all with the mast.....but he was 35kg lighter.

What front wing? Some fone foils are very loose and extremely responsive and if your not familiar with the setup it's would be hard to decipher anything. Fone 14mm is very stiff. It's as stiff or stiffer than anything I have felt on the beach. In the progression discussion Adam compares it to the no limits v2. Cedrus will be noticeably stiffer but not much else.

I'm assuming we can take the chart on basic bending stiffness that NL has in the Prog thread as true (looks about what I'd expect). I've ridden several of those masts and feel little dif in stiffness between them at my 90Kg. They're all very useable for me. The two I've used quite a bit this season, the Axis 19mm alu w/ Lift doodad (stiffest on the list), and the Lift X2 (very near the bottom), the difference in use is very slight and in fact I prefer the ride of the X2. So basically, beyond a certain level (weight is factor), more isn't necessary. There are other factors that are more important like resistance to ventilation, drag, and weight.

What I'm getting from all this info is it takes about 3mm or more of mast thickness difference to actually 'feel' any dif in drag. In the real world though mast drag differences mean exactly zip zilch 0. If we can gain anything from this seasons downwind SUP foil race results it's that skill is the most important factor with mast drag well down the list.

I'm excited by the weight savings if the v2 can be stiff as Axis high modulus but weight over a kilo less.

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Thatspec said..
What I'm getting from all this info is it takes about 3mm or more of mast thickness difference to actually 'feel' any dif in drag. In the real world though mast drag differences mean exactly zip zilch 0. If we can gain anything from this seasons downwind SUP foil race results it's that skill is the most important factor with mast drag well down the list.

Not what Mr.Bennets or KDW says...not my experience either.
I bought this Takuma V2 carbon mast and sold it after 3 sessions.
It felt like dragging seaweed all the time.

In my experience at any skill level drag is a huge factor for Surfoiling, and Winging in inconsistent winds.
DW too i guess,but i do not practice it.
Strong wind wingfoil is probably where it matters less, but draggy setup is more tiring,more pull on your hands.

As for the SupFoil race results i am curious, how many Cedrus in the top 10 finishers?.

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mcrt said..

Thatspec said..
What I'm getting from all this info is it takes about 3mm or more of mast thickness difference to actually 'feel' any dif in drag. In the real world though mast drag differences mean exactly zip zilch 0. If we can gain anything from this seasons downwind SUP foil race results it's that skill is the most important factor with mast drag well down the list.

Not what Mr.Bennets or KDW says...not my experience either.
I bought this Takuma V2 carbon mast and sold it after 3 sessions.
It felt like dragging seaweed all the time.

In my experience at any skill level drag is a huge factor for Surfoiling, and Winging in inconsistent winds.
DW too i guess,but i do not practice it.
Strong wind wingfoil is probably where it matters less, but draggy setup is more tiring,more pull on your hands.

As for the SupFoil race results i am curious, how many Cedrus in the top 10 finishers?.

Can't speak to what you were feeling with your Takuma setup but feel and confidence in your system fairly important. The race results are the bottom line for me. When a stock, fairly portly mast can take second place by a few seconds in a 40Km SUP foil race against the best in the world (and on all the latest lowest drag masts)... What exactly does a punter like me need? My point being mast drag is being grossly overstated as an issue.

Everyone is free to dispose of as many $$$ as they like.

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AnyBoard said..

Jeroensurf said..

Thatspec said..
forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/67

That is a great read, tons of info to sort through.

Regardless of whether you believe thickness or chord length has the greatest impact on drag (my gut says they're about equal factors), neither the NL or the new Cedrus can compete with the the Allure or Phantom masts. They (NL & Cedrus) are just "good" in the drag department and a slight step up in performance from stock manufacturers masts. They 'might' be stiffer but is that stiffness of noticeable benefit?

I think that is very much depending on your weight.Someone who is like 50-60 kg can get away with a less stiff mast to get the same feel as I do with my 95kg (and slowly shrinking).I tried the 14mm Fone mast and it is okay, but I feel it bending and twisting allover the place. That inflicts with steering and control.A local I had a chat with last week didn't notice that at all with the mast.....but he was 35kg lighter.

What front wing? Some fone foils are very loose and extremely responsive and if your not familiar with the setup it's would be hard to decipher anything. Fone 14mm is very stiff. It's as stiff or stiffer than anything I have felt on the beach. In the progression discussion Adam compares it to the no limits v2. Cedrus will be noticeably stiffer but not much else.

I tried the 7seas 1200 and 1000 both with a Cedrus and the 85 Fone HM.btw: i,m normally riding most of the time my Cab H-series 1000 and 800 preverable on my KT 5.4x56l riding waves wingfoiling at the Northsea so I don,t think there was a lot of learning curve with the foil.The Fone felt faster but also a more flexxing and twisting when throwing turns. My Garmin watch didnt show big speed differences, wich I found funny because the feel said that the Fone was faster (same as with the carbon Cabrinha V2 mast) but the numbers didnt show it.Trying a lot of different foils and masts lately, the only one that felt really good to me in stiffness/drag ratio was the NP carbon but i,m not (yet) willing to sell my 6 foils from 3 different brands just for a mast that I can feel but isnt a drastic drag diff imo nor do I want to give up lets say more then 10% stifess where the Fone felt like 30% less stiff to me (subjective as hell).

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mcrt said..

As for the SupFoil race results i am curious, how many Cedrus in the top 10 finishers?.

Missed your last question @MCRT,
Here's the link to this years Maui to Molokai;
www.webscorer.com/racedetails?raceid=321273&did=396519
You'll recognize most of the names but I'd say in the top 10 there was nobody on an original Cedrus mast. Most of these guys are sponsored and ride that gear. Most are also under 87Kg.

Not saying there aren't slight differences in the drag of various masts. Just saying mast drag as a % of overall system drag doesn't matter all that much to me.

I am wondering how much further forward the second set of bolt holes get you with the No limitz mast. I am all the way forward in my foil boxes on my favourite board but managed to get an extra 30mm by using the extra bolt holes on my axis Ali base plate. The extra holes on the No Limitz probably only give an extra 20mm at most?

Last summer someone won Duke's Ocean Fest on a Cedrus with a Unifoil sticker, a mast designed in 2017.

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Powis said..
I'm excited by the weight savings if the v2 can be stiff as Axis high modulus but weight over a kilo less.

To correct myself... based on the chart shared by nolimitz the v2 is only slightly less stiff (bending) than Axis aluminium and the Axis HM is supposed to be 35% stiffer than that. So really while they are comparable in price I expect axis HM to be stiffer at the cost of extra weight. Would love for someone to compare to axis high modulus.