Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Was told 'July' if that helps. Will likely pick one up as well, waiting patiently.

Rode an Omen foil recently and the mast is made by No Limitz, might be pretty similar to where the V2 NL may end up. No complaints regarding stiffness. It's 15.5mm down near the fuse compared to 16.7 for the V1. You're not going to do better than the Axis V1 carbon at 14.5mm but can you control the foil through that 96cm? Even with the 86cm I occasionally noticed the flex (though that was with the 1099)

Considering picking up one of these when they're available for my Axis V1 86cm;
www.foilparts.com/products/axis-mast-carbon-or-aluminum-to-lift-wing-adapter

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gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

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paul.j said..

gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

Does it only fit axis or multiple brands with adapters?

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gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

My understanding is the V1 mast only fit one brand and you would order a mast specific to lift or fone or axis ect.

Will the V2 mast fit Multiple brands with adaptors?

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Spark said..

paul.j said..

gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

Does it only fit axis or multiple brands with adapters?

Just the Axis as it's all one piece. We have been looking at how to make everything even more compatible so maybe in the future we can make it work for even more.

Wouldn't it be nice to have it like skateboarding where everything just about fits everything and the differences is in the preformace in the parts. Pipe dream I know but its something we are always thinking about.

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paul.j said..

Spark said..

paul.j said..

gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

Does it only fit axis or multiple brands with adapters?

Just the Axis as it's all one piece. We have been looking at how to make everything even more compatible so maybe in the future we can make it work for even more.

Wouldn't it be nice to have it like skateboarding where everything just about fits everything and the differences is in the preformace in the parts. Pipe dream I know but it's something we are always thinking about.

A mast that fits multiple brand wings would be nice for sure however it would come with its disadvantages. 2 off the top of my head.

the additional connection point and loss of stiffness in the setup weather you use an Axis doodad style or adaptors there's no other way around it I can see.

The other being the rake angle. Not sure how much that changes between different brands.

The champion of brand compatibility is Project Cedrus and as it seems, their V2 should be released this summer.
Based on their track record I'm eager to put my hands on one.I haven't ridden anything stiffer than their V1 both Carbon and Alu.

I had 2 NoLImitz and while they were the smoothest of anything I rode(14.5mm F-one for example), both had construction issues
and I ended up back with Cedrus.

I now ride Omen Foils (with my Cedrus mast), NoLimiz definitely seem to elevate their game. The new mast seems to incorporate top performance both drag and stiffness and build quality as well. I ordered one and should be getting next week .As far as brand compatibility
I think it's going to remain an aftermarket solution for the Nolimitz.

If brand compatibility is not an issue, it seems like you have 3 great (on paper) choices.

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burchas said..
The champion of brand compatibility is Project Cedrus and as it seems, their V2 should be released this summer.
Based on their track record I'm eager to put my hands on one.I haven't ridden anything stiffer than their V1 both Carbon and Alu.

I had 2 NoLImitz and while they were the smoothest of anything I rode(14.5mm F-one for example), both had construction issues
and I ended up back with Cedrus.

I now ride Omen Foils (with my Cedrus mast), NoLimiz definitely seem to elevate their game. The new mast seems to incorporate top performance both drag and stiffness and build quality as well. I ordered one and should be getting next week .As far as brand compatibility
I think it's going to remain an aftermarket solution for the Nolimitz.

If brand compatibility is not an issue, it seems like you have 3 great (on paper) choices.

How are you liking that Omen setup? I on one too and I feel it's far ahead of anything I'd previously been on-so good!

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Spark said..

paul.j said..

Spark said..

paul.j said..

gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

Does it only fit axis or multiple brands with adapters?

Just the Axis as it's all one piece. We have been looking at how to make everything even more compatible so maybe in the future we can make it work for even more.

Wouldn't it be nice to have it like skateboarding where everything just about fits everything and the differences is in the preformace in the parts. Pipe dream I know but it's something we are always thinking about.

A mast that fits multiple brand wings would be nice for sure however it would come with its disadvantages. 2 off the top of my head.

the additional connection point and loss of stiffness in the setup weather you use an Axis doodad style or adaptors there's no other way around it I can see.

The other being the rake angle. Not sure how much that changes between different brands.

Yeah you are right and having an extra join at the mast to fuse section has been a big reason I have not gone down that path as it does just add something else that can go wrong. Keeping everything as tight and stiff as possible has always been key for us as I hate to much flex.

The Angle no so much of an issue on the mast join section and our mast works just fine no matter what set up its on so I don't feel that is much of an issue unless some brands are doing weird stuff to keep it so nothing can be compatible.

I have a nolimitz v1 and I've been very happy with it. Feeling the feather light weight still puts a smile on my face every time I pick it up. I did talk to nolimitz last year when I bought it asking if they had any plans of making a universal option and the answer back then at last was a solid no.

Burchas and martyman: I'm definitely interested in hearing more about the omen foils

Paul, your mast looks great and smart to make it compatible with at least one other brand.
As I mentioned higher up in the thread, Foil parts has an adapter now for Lift wings using an Axis (or your) carbon mast (also fits the Alu doodad. I've been using their previous dedicated doodad for Axis 19mm alu to Lift for two months now and there is zero movement in the system. The bolts haven't even come loose in 1500+ miles of winging which is way better than I ever did using an all Axis setup (tighten front mast bolt every session) so I'm really looking forward to this new adapter. For 175 usd it's a cheap experiment at least. It's in stock now, mine just shipped. Link is above

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Thatspec said..
Paul, your mast looks great and smart to make it compatible with at least one other brand.
As I mentioned higher up in the thread, Foil parts has an adapter now for Lift wings using an Axis (or your) carbon mast (also fits the Alu doodad. I've been using their previous dedicated doodad for Axis 19mm alu to Lift for two months now and there is zero movement in the system. The bolts haven't even come loose in 1500+ miles of winging which is way better than I ever did using an all Axis setup (tighten front mast bolt every session) so I'm really looking forward to this new adapter. For 175 usd it's a cheap experiment at least. It's in stock now, mine just shipped. Link is above

Yeah good to know, have a few lift guys who have been wanting a stiffer mast option than what is currently on the market so this is a good option for sure and will check it out.

In my thinking bringing out a whole new brand of foils would be a super tough sell in this market as to do so you have to have a massive range of wings straight up which takes a very long time to test and make sure they work plus just the trust in the people who are buying from you that the brand will be around in 1 two or 3 years as no one wants to buy a setup and then find they are not producing new gear all the time and they get left behind. We started to make a full setup with everything unique but I got to a point where I thought to myself would I go and buy a whole new setup if I already had a good setup and waste 2 or 3 grand doing the swap over and for really an unknown? and to be honest I would not do it so then why would I ask others to take such a risk!!
I wanted to make things as compatible as possible and focus on the areas that really matter like the performance and construction of the mast and wings. If I could have made it even more compatible with other brands I would have but having guys like Nolimitz to help fill the gaps is a great option.

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Thatspec said..
Paul, your mast looks great and smart to make it compatible with at least one other brand.
As I mentioned higher up in the thread, Foil parts has an adapter now for Lift wings using an Axis (or your) carbon mast (also fits the Alu doodad. I've been using their previous dedicated doodad for Axis 19mm alu to Lift for two months now and there is zero movement in the system. The bolts haven't even come loose in 1500+ miles of winging which is way better than I ever did using an all Axis setup (tighten front mast bolt every session) so I'm really looking forward to this new adapter. For 175 usd it's a cheap experiment at least. It's in stock now, mine just shipped. Link is above

Just a tip ... I had the new foilmount, axis to lift adapter ... I advise you crank the bolts up as tight as you can .. and check during a session.

I did mine what I thought was very tight with a long arm alum key ... but 15 minutes into a session they must worked loose .... so a brand new LiftHA150, Lift tail and the culprit adapter ... sunk to the bottom never to be seen again!

Expensive adapter !

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Thatspec said..
Was told 'July' if that helps. Will likely pick one up as well, waiting patiently.

Rode an Omen foil recently and the mast is made by No Limitz, might be pretty similar to where the V2 NL may end up. No complaints regarding stiffness. It's 15.5mm down near the fuse compared to 16.7 for the V1. You're not going to do better than the Axis V1 carbon at 14.5mm but can you control the foil through that 96cm? Even with the 86cm I occasionally noticed the flex (though that was with the 1099)

Considering picking up one of these when they're available for my Axis V1 86cm;
www.foilparts.com/products/axis-mast-carbon-or-aluminum-to-lift-wing-adapter

I think I've ridden my v1 96cm Axis mast so much that I'm used to it's nuances and can turn it pretty well. It has started to feel somewhat draggy when I ride my chopped ART999 (now 899) and ART799. When I try to bear away and push for speed, things feel very loaded up and I feel like things are about to blow up with the slightest mistake. With the 325p tail (no shim), it takes all I have to get it anywhere near 20kts.

I have also heard about quality control issues with NL masts (AL plate to carbon) but I am hoping that since I'm not super heavy (70kg) and don't ride huge wings (ART999 my largest) that it should be okay.

Really looking for a unicorn I guess: fast, light and strong. Haha

The NL has suffered from a lot of issues... Many broke at the fuse joint. Ventilation. Corrosion under the metal plate.
It was a huge fad a year ago

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bjhjames said..

Thatspec said..
Paul, your mast looks great and smart to make it compatible with at least one other brand.
As I mentioned higher up in the thread, Foil parts has an adapter now for Lift wings using an Axis (or your) carbon mast (also fits the Alu doodad. I've been using their previous dedicated doodad for Axis 19mm alu to Lift for two months now and there is zero movement in the system. The bolts haven't even come loose in 1500+ miles of winging which is way better than I ever did using an all Axis setup (tighten front mast bolt every session) so I'm really looking forward to this new adapter. For 175 usd it's a cheap experiment at least. It's in stock now, mine just shipped. Link is above

Just a tip ... I had the new foilmount, axis to lift adapter ... I advise you crank the bolts up as tight as you can .. and check during a session.

I did mine what I thought was very tight with a long arm alum key ... but 15 minutes into a session they must worked loose .... so a brand new LiftHA150, Lift tail and the culprit adapter ... sunk to the bottom never to be seen again!

Expensive adapter !

Ughhhhh, that must have been painful!
I was suspicious as well as there's room for less than 1cm of threads before bottoming against the mast so I brought an allen wrench along on the maiden voyage, the front bolt was a little loose after the first half hour. Figured it might seat itself better after a little use. Checked it two more times over about 1.5 hours and it stayed tight. I used blue loktite on the mast to adapter bolts as it's stainless to stainless (and the front always came loose in an Axis fuse). I just used tef-gel on the fuse to adapter bolts, so far so good.

I swore I wouldn't buy a system that used M6 bolts on the mast fuse connection but the "block" at the base of a lift mast is so big the bolts aren't doing much. I'd even be satisfied if Axis only used M6 as long as the block fit like a glove in the fuse.

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gneve said..


I think I've ridden my v1 96cm Axis mast so much that I'm used to it's nuances and can turn it pretty well. It has started to feel somewhat draggy when I ride my chopped ART999 (now 899) and ART799. When I try to bear away and push for speed, things feel very loaded up and I feel like things are about to blow up with the slightest mistake. With the 325p tail (no shim), it takes all I have to get it anywhere near 20kts.

I have also heard about quality control issues with NL masts (AL plate to carbon) but I am hoping that since I'm not super heavy (70kg) and don't ride huge wings (ART999 my largest) that it should be okay.

Really looking for a unicorn I guess: fast, light and strong. Haha

Unfortunately it's unlikely you'll find anything lower drag than the mast you have (except a shorter version)
Otherwise I'd agree, use it for your smaller wings and it's a great, SUPER low drag mast at 14.5mm down low where it counts. I hadn't ridden the 86cm V1 for about 1.5 years but after three hours on it today, I'd say the advantages more than outweigh the disadvantages. The biggest advantage being I own it already The only time I really noticed any flex was going high speed through one foot confused chop. Pumping and roll transitions were better than I remembered. Most of the complaints people had with the V1 were probably due to poor fitment to the fuse which was pretty sloppy from the factory.

Evolution Cedrus is going to launch at or before AWSI, September 6-8. Tooling is done, and we are in the final stages of prototype builds. There will be limited pre-sales. It is stiffer, stronger, and faster than the Classic, featuring a new patent-pending adapter connection that will ensure the only truly universal mast has a stiffer fuselage connection than OEM.

I want to chime in once again and talk about thickness/drag. I don't know why, but the industry (and riders) are still hung up on thickness. In fact, chord length has a bigger impact on drag than thickness. For example, increasing chord length 10% causes drag to go up 20%, while increasing thickness by 10% only causes drag to go up by 8%. Full discussion, analysis, and industry benchmark here: projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/the-state-of-the-mast/

Stringy put a few pics of the NL v2 on his Insta. Looks very nice, although hard for me to tell much difference than the v1. Chord does look longer to me, but that could just be the photo angle.

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BayAreaKite said..
Evolution Cedrus is going to launch at or before AWSI, September 6-8. Tooling is done, and we are in the final stages of prototype builds. There will be limited pre-sales. It is stiffer, stronger, and faster than the Classic, featuring a new patent-pending adapter connection that will ensure the only truly universal mast has a stiffer fuselage connection than OEM.

I want to chime in once again and talk about thickness/drag. I don't know why, but the industry (and riders) are still hung up on thickness. In fact, chord length has a bigger impact on drag than thickness. For example, increasing chord length 10% causes drag to go up 20%, while increasing thickness by 10% only causes drag to go up by 8%. Full discussion, analysis, and industry benchmark here: projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/the-state-of-the-mast/

Great to hear. I've been holding off on buying a new mast waiting on the new Cedrus. Can't wait to see it. Any #s estimate on improvements with drag or drag comparisons to other brands?

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Alysum said..
The NL has suffered from a lot of issues... Many broke at the fuse joint. Ventilation. Corrosion under the metal plate.
It was a huge fad a year ago

I wouldn't say fad, for anyone on Cabrinha it was basically a necessity. This is some of my last 7months riding it

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Holoholo said..

BayAreaKite said..
Evolution Cedrus is going to launch at or before AWSI, September 6-8. Tooling is done, and we are in the final stages of prototype builds. There will be limited pre-sales. It is stiffer, stronger, and faster than the Classic, featuring a new patent-pending adapter connection that will ensure the only truly universal mast has a stiffer fuselage connection than OEM.

I want to chime in once again and talk about thickness/drag. I don't know why, but the industry (and riders) are still hung up on thickness. In fact, chord length has a bigger impact on drag than thickness. For example, increasing chord length 10% causes drag to go up 20%, while increasing thickness by 10% only causes drag to go up by 8%. Full discussion, analysis, and industry benchmark here: projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/the-state-of-the-mast/

Great to hear. I've been holding off on buying a new mast waiting on the new Cedrus. Can't wait to see it. Any #s estimate on improvements with drag or drag comparisons to other brands?

Less drag than the Axis power/HM masts and similar drag to NoLimitz V1. Potentially less drag than V2 if the chord length has grown as much as it appears. Thank you for the support and stay tuned!

I've put about 20 hours on the new Omen 80cm mast this past week.

As it just came out of the No limitz shop, pretty safe to say it is the NL V2 with a different foot. It's absurdly light, stiff and slippery (and available now). No telling when NL will release their own version.

The Omen mast foot looks slightly smaller than Axis. Fitment to Lift and UNI should be no problem w/ adapter.probably others as well.

NL seems to be mostly concerned about thickness also, a few specs along with that pic here. I didn't measure the chord;
www.instagram.com/p/Cvcz3EZRtyJ/?img_index=1

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paul.j said..

gneve said..
Any rumors as to when the NoLimitz v2 masts might come out? I like the idea of having a mast that I can swap between brands. Currently riding the Axis v1 96cm mast (72kg) and I'm looking for something with less drag and still pretty stiff.

Can't help on the NL mast but if you want a mast to plug into your Axis set up then we now have these that would work.

80cm made crazy stiff, thinner cord, thinner thickness and lighter.
Makes the longer wing span HA wings feel so much better and the speed and efficiency is so good.

If you want more info just hit me up.

Hey Paul J,

These look very nice. I can't see any info about them on your website. Where can we get more info on sizes, construction, pricing etc

I am heading to the Gold Coast in a few weeks so might be able to check them out in person.

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BayAreaKite said..

Holoholo said..

BayAreaKite said..
Evolution Cedrus is going to launch at or before AWSI, September 6-8. Tooling is done, and we are in the final stages of prototype builds. There will be limited pre-sales. It is stiffer, stronger, and faster than the Classic, featuring a new patent-pending adapter connection that will ensure the only truly universal mast has a stiffer fuselage connection than OEM.

I want to chime in once again and talk about thickness/drag. I don't know why, but the industry (and riders) are still hung up on thickness. In fact, chord length has a bigger impact on drag than thickness. For example, increasing chord length 10% causes drag to go up 20%, while increasing thickness by 10% only causes drag to go up by 8%. Full discussion, analysis, and industry benchmark here: projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/the-state-of-the-mast/

Great to hear. I've been holding off on buying a new mast waiting on the new Cedrus. Can't wait to see it. Any #s estimate on improvements with drag or drag comparisons to other brands?

Less drag than the Axis power/HM masts and similar drag to NoLimitz V1. Potentially less drag than V2 if the chord length has grown as much as it appears. Thank you for the support and stay tuned!

If that's the case for drag and they maintain stiffness, light-weight- it's going to be a no brainer for me. Not seeing on your website yet- do you have any way to pre-order?

Everyone is indeed obsessed with stiffness/thickness/chord/drag etc... but what about ventilation ? It's a complex phenemenon but should be priority #1 when designing masts as nothing ruins a session more than crashing from this.

I've heard the NL v1 ventilated a lot, glad I never bought one.
My Axis classic & power masts ventilated.
My classic Cedrus ventilated heaps, even with the stick-on fence.

The only masts I've never ventilated once with is Takuma both v1 alu and v2 carbon...

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Alysum said..
Everyone is indeed obsessed with stiffness/thickness/chord/drag etc... but what about ventilation ? It's a complex phenemenon but should be priority #1 when designing masts as nothing ruins a session more than crashing from this.

I've heard the NL v1 ventilated a lot, glad I never bought one.
My Axis classic & power masts ventilated.
My classic Cedrus ventilated heaps, even with the stick-on fence.

The only masts I've never ventilated once with is Takuma both v1 alu and v2 carbon...

Interestingly I never had any issues with ventilation on a couple of the masts you mentioned. Even the V1 Axis carbon which arguably started the whole ventilation topic, maybe I remembered a couple of times. Conditions and riding style might be equally important factors.

Was pushing the new No Limitz (via Omen) upwind as hard as anything and not a single vent in 20+ hours (and I weigh 90Kg). 100 meter average speeds over 40 kph no problems

But what is mast drag as a percentage of overall drag? Let's say with 30% of the mast submerged. Is it actually significant?
Barely even noticeable to me most of time, especially with 15% of the mast submerged.

I guess if it's really going to make a difference to you psychologically or otherwise you fork out the big bucks for a Mike's Lab setup.
That would be 25% less drag than the new NL just based on the thickness difference and the chord is also shorter. But 25% of what?

Kyle?

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toppleover said..

I'm guessing that the v2 will be released after AWSI in early September.