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north_kiter said..
Anyone with sailing or surfing experience knows that a longer water line length is faster which means the foil will engage faster.
With this design they dramatically shortened the water line length, it's actually comical.

I'd like to demo it for a laugh but I'd never pay 1 cent for this board

Ever heard of Axopar boats? Do you think Keith Teboul is clueless? Do you think they released this without doing any testing?
Time will tell.

Wow, I didn't know there were so many board design experts on this forum, I'd really like to see some of the boards they've designed and built. Oh I know why, because they haven't!
They'd rather knock proven board builders who put their livelihood on the line by trying to innovate and produce new boards after countless testing by experts like Kai Lenny. KT didn't need to produce the Ginxu as they've plenty of other foilboards but they have because they think it makes a difference, but hey what does KT know, obviously not as much as a load of keyboard warriors that haven't built a thing.

Sorry but can't handle people knocking just for the sake if it, I know the "tall poppy" syndrome was a big thing in Oz 15/20yrs ago when I worked there, but would have hoped it had dissipated.

Sure why don't you guys buy one and let me know how it goes. What has Axopar boats got to do with this board design?

I'd love to see sales figures in a years time in Australia, but I'd wager it'd be 1 or 2.

I don't need to be a board design expert to spot a dud. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck then chances are it is a duck.

I've owned a KT drifter but definitely won't be owning one of these.

Kai Lenny is a gifted rider for sure, doesn't make him a board design expert. Are you saying he tested this and has his endorsement? I still wouldn't buy it if he did and haven't ever bought a board because Kai Lenny said it was good.

Go on the website and read and look at kai lenny, maybe read next ime before u criticise.

You probably have lost that wager already.
Considering the "shiny new toy" malaise this collective suffers there is probably a dozen preorders by now.

Waterline,btw, is unaffected by the step.That tsil is gonna be in the water when schlogging.

Looks like they have Patented, US No. 11,027,796, EU No. 22020001-8

This would indicate to me this design is not just some marketing razzle dazzle.

You can find the hype sheet and info here on the board: ktsurfing.com/boards-2022/ginxu/

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foilthegreats said..
Looks like they have Patented, US No. 11,027,796, EU No. 22020001-8

This would indicate to me this design is not just some marketing razzle dazzle.

You can find the hype sheet and info here on the board: ktsurfing.com/boards-2022/ginxu/

I'm afraid that that's not a EU (EPO) patent number. Probably its one of a member state with aspirations to concert it to EU.

i've read the us patent. Their 'invention' start to makes sense to me be, but that's because their invention is something I'm familiar with from windsurf and windfoil.

check out this section from the us patent:

"The contact of the board along the surface of the water creates adhesion between the planing surface of the board and the surface of the water, which further causes drag. This adhesion must overcome for the board to ultimately leave the surface of the water to thereby eliminate the drag. These forces act to constrain the board from detaching from the water and/or actively act to attach the board to the surface of the water. Since the planing surface is typically continuous and even from nose to tail, this creates a relatively large surface area to adhere to the surface of the water. As the board gains more speed, the hydrofoil assembly provides more upward force, or "lift", and the board is able to break the adhesion from the surface of the water. However, given the relatively large surface area created by the typical configuration of the planing surface, the board must achieve considerable speed before the bottom of the board can break the adhesion with the water. Manually gaining such speed by paddling, or through the power of a wing, kite, sail, and/or propulsion system may be difficult for the average recreational user given the drag, and may still be difficult or take longer than desired for professional riders of the highest physical fitness. In some instances, gaining the requisite speed may require a relatively larger, more powerful kite, sail, wing, foil and/or propulsion system, and/or steep wave to assist in propelling the board."

Basically the problem and solution they describe, are the cutouts almost all windfoil boards have and a lot of speed oriented windsurf boards. The only difference here is that it has one massive cutout, but that doesn't make it innovative. Would be interesting to see if this patent would survive an opposition procedure. There's quite some elements to counter their invention (in EU) based on a lack of novelty.

Enough off the geek stuff. It has attracted my interest. Makes me think why cutouts haven't really been popular in wingfoil boards.

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Mikedubs said..
Kai Lenny is involved in the design and testing, so it's not going to be exactly **** is it guys! I for one like the look of it.

Mike

Kai Lenny is extremely skilled but that creates a couple of problems as well:
A: he is soo good that he probably even flies away with my toilet seat if I screw the brush under it as he can compensate all the flaws.B: Most customers who can afford such toy are less talented middle aged or beyond aren,t.
C: Because Kai is one of the greatest he got more boards in his shed as most shops do, so if it isnt perfect he grabs a dozen of other ones.Besides that: Keith is a big name in windsurf and Surf, but not all of his boards are as magic, i had had a couple customs of him that sucked in pretty much in everything but some very special conditions but not in the "real world" .And maybe this makes me an sceptical keyboard warrior...but is that very different as an bling-blinded fanboy? Personaly I would be very interested to try it for the sake of, but it is too weird with the huge cut out for buying one, just based on the Kai/Keith approved stamp.

From their website
"Most surprisingly of all it makes it incredibly easy to initially take off, because the moment you get a little bit of speed on the water and the board starts to rise to the waters' surface, even though the front 2/3rds of the bottom of the board is still in the water, the foil is already out of the water and flying, creating an Ultra Boost, getting you going much quicker than traditional designs."

I don't think that is an accurate statement to make when the board is still on the surface of the water the foil is flying.

What is the definition of a foil wing flying?

- Lift to balance the force of gravity
- Thrust to counter the force of drag (resistance) - without thrust, an object will lose its forward momentum

Now the board still has contact to the water, so that is not flying. It's like saying a plane with it's wheels still touching the ground is flying.

Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me, and it costs roughly 3.5K AUD

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north_kiter said..
From their website
"Most surprisingly of all it makes it incredibly easy to initially take off, because the moment you get a little bit of speed on the water and the board starts to rise to the waters' surface, even though the front 2/3rds of the bottom of the board is still in the water, the foil is already out of the water and flying, creating an Ultra Boost, getting you going much quicker than traditional designs."

I don't think that is an accurate statement to make when the board is still on the surface of the water the foil is flying.

What is the definition of a foil wing flying?

- Lift to balance the force of gravity
- Thrust to counter the force of drag (resistance) - without thrust, an object will lose its forward momentum

Now the board still has contact to the water, so that is not flying. It's like saying a plane with it's wheels still touching the ground is flying.

Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me, and it costs roughly 3.5K AUD

Maybe it is considered flying because the draggiest part of the foil/mast structure (the base plate connection) will be out of the water.

I've always wondered what kind of drag penalty we are all carrying around with the mastplate and fasteners - on my last board I had both tuttle and plate mounts and I for sure could tell the reduced drag from using the gofoil tuttle mast versus the pedestal style. It is quite possible that the step puts the foil pedestal in the turbulent flow and reduces that drag penalty. but the reduction in running length seems like quite an issue

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north_kiter said..
From their website
"Most surprisingly of all it makes it incredibly easy to initially take off, because the moment you get a little bit of speed on the water and the board starts to rise to the waters' surface, even though the front 2/3rds of the bottom of the board is still in the water, the foil is already out of the water and flying, creating an Ultra Boost, getting you going much quicker than traditional designs."

I don't think that is an accurate statement to make when the board is still on the surface of the water the foil is flying.

What is the definition of a foil wing flying?

- Lift to balance the force of gravity
- Thrust to counter the force of drag (resistance) - without thrust, an object will lose its forward momentum

Now the board still has contact to the water, so that is not flying. It's like saying a plane with it's wheels still touching the ground is flying.

Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me, and it costs roughly 3.5K AUD

The trick is in the moment you get a little bit speed on the water. My scepticism about the design is getting that little bit of speed with such short waterline/interrupted waterline.
Maybe when you fly overpowered to boost huge airs that is no problem at all, but when you like me ride strapless and just want a size big enough to get you going and ride waves but nothing more than that I have serious doubts about the low end.

I've heard testing feedback and it apparently works amazing for anything involving planing. It's essentially a "higher aspect" lifting surface that will have much less drag at planing speeds. Check out some videos of professional skimboarders for a good example of this in action; by turning the board sideways they can extend their glide significantly. This should mean it sticks a lot less when touching down.
The step also creates a pivot point in pitch when the board is touching down, which could help pump off the water and un-stick the board. I imagine this is incredible for jumping.
Most of the current or older KT foil boards are also pretty sticky, especially Kai's personal boards. This is probably a massive improvement over that.
My guess is this will work awesome when given enough power or big enough foil to get the step to release quickly. It probably won't beat Dave Kalama's displacement shape for large downwind boards but could excel in smaller sizes. I'm really interested in what happens in the mid size range (65-85L).
They've been working on this concept for a while and clearly found some improvement. Im really excited to try one!

I have this one coming

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jondrums said..
I've always wondered what kind of drag penalty we are all carrying around with the mastplate and fasteners - on my last board I had both tuttle and plate mounts and I for sure could tell the reduced drag from using the gofoil tuttle mast versus the pedestal style. It is quite possible that the step puts the foil pedestal in the turbulent flow and reduces that drag penalty. but the reduction in running length seems like quite an issue

Parasite drag (form+friction) is proportional to speed squared, so at takeoff speeds the drag is probably low but in a high speed touchdown it is for sure very big.

No idea if at low (takeoff) speeds the step will reduce the form drag of the plate enough to compensate for the form drag of the step itself.Guesstimate it does not.

The reduced volume and structural weak point (in the worst place possible) could be reduced by making the step only as wide as the mast plate.With the bottom sides uninterrupted to the tail.This would "hide" the plate just as well.

But i would think they have tried this and many combinations in between and the full step came out best.

Of course what is best for Kai Lenny may be disastrous for me :).

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FoilAddict said..
I've heard testing feedback and it apparently works amazing for anything involving planing. It's essentially a "higher aspect" lifting surface that will have much less drag at planing speeds. Check out some videos of professional skimboarders for a good example of this in action; by turning the board sideways they can extend their glide significantly. This should mean it sticks a lot less when touching down.
The step also creates a pivot point in pitch when the board is touching down, which could help pump off the water and un-stick the board. I imagine this is incredible for jumping.
Most of the current or older KT foil boards are also pretty sticky, especially Kai's personal boards. This is probably a massive improvement over that.
My guess is this will work awesome when given enough power or big enough foil to get the step to release quickly. It probably won't beat Dave Kalama's displacement shape for large downwind boards but could excel in smaller sizes. I'm really interested in what happens in the mid size range (65-85L).
They've been working on this concept for a while and clearly found some improvement. Im really excited to try one!

It's very refreshing to have someone knowledgeable chime in.

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omg said..
I have this one coming

Now that's a better design, an attempt to hide the mast plate, but keep a smooth flat bottom edge

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omg said..
I have this one coming

I had no seen this one, cool design!

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FoilAddict said..

Most of the current or older KT foil boards are also pretty sticky, especially Kai's personal boards. This is probably a massive improvement over that.

This is not what I have experienced with the KT / Quatro foil boards. They don't feel sticky at all.

Sorry, can't provide evidence as I just registered and can't post links. If anybody wants to see my experience with the Quatro Wing drifter 80 L, KT Drifter S 40 litres, and now with the Ginxu prototypes, well let's hope the restriction of posting links to videos will be removed soon.cheers
Taavi

Jondrums: re: drag from mast plate...I've run the gofoil with both tuttle and plate, I've not noticed any difference. Doesn't mean there isn't any, just that's it's minimal to the point of not being a factor. Which is how I categorize nearly all the various board design variations, short of being a racer where the podium advantage is measured in seconds gained, then it likely falls into the "statistically insignificant within 5%" category. But we all love the shiny toys and there's a psychological advantage: if you feel good about your gear, it ups your confidence, and your performance improves. That in itself is worth something.

Ginxu: from the discussion, seems to me this board is built for high wind, big wave, high speed. My guess is the experimentation is to help KL maximize probability of making the drop at 20' jaws. And a bonus that it may work well for other riders in varied situations. But does not appear to me this is designed to be anyone's daily driver.

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omg said..
I have this one coming

The Aero board construction is pretty great. Used the previous model quite a bit, a 5' 80 liter board that weighs 10#, seemed pretty tough too. This newer bottom shape was just coming online, would've liked to try it. If the price hadn't gone up like 25%, I would've bought one.
Being made in Poland that's getting pretty close to the front lines. www.aeroboards.com/

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Taavi said..

FoilAddict said..

Most of the current or older KT foil boards are also pretty sticky, especially Kai's personal boards. This is probably a massive improvement over that.

This is not what I have experienced with the KT / Quatro foil boards. They don't feel sticky at all.

Sorry, can't provide evidence as I just registered and can't post links. If anybody wants to see my experience with the Quatro Wing drifter 80 L, KT Drifter S 40 litres, and now with the Ginxu prototypes, well let's hope the restriction of posting links to videos will be removed soon.cheers
Taavi

2 beautiful days on a ginxu 54 L. Happy.

Cool, how quickly does the 54l get on the foil, I have a 65L takuma tk and am interested in either the 62 or the 54.

Mike

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Mikedubs said..
Cool, how quickly does the 54l get on the foil, I have a 65L takuma tk and am interested in either the 62 or the 54.

Mike

+1. Any drawbacks you've noticed compared to the Wingdrifter designs for getting going early? Are the boxes far enough forward for Armstrong and Lift - type foils?

Kai's IG post today mentions 2 years of testing the Ginxu design: www.instagram.com/tv/CbqvjpVJb4L/?utm_medium=copy_link

I'd be keen to try one of these new KT boards. However, I don't think we will see many in West Oz. One thing I think is needed in wing board design is longer foil tracks. Everyone is mixing and matching brands everywhere and industry norm needs to be 12-14" boxes. Armstrong started the trend with their carbon track system in the FG boards. The new JP Australia Wing board tracks are huge. I also hear Sunova will be adding 14" tracks all wing boards and SUPs in the coming year.

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baldy123 said..
I'd be keen to try one of these new KT boards. However, I don't think we will see many in West Oz. One thing I think is needed in wing board design is longer foil tracks. Everyone is mixing and matching brands everywhere and industry norm needs to be 12-14" boxes. Armstrong started the trend with their carbon track system in the FG boards. The new JP Australia Wing board tracks are huge. I also hear Sunova will be adding 14" tracks all wing boards and SUPs in the coming year.

Yes, I sold my Sunova as it felt mis-matched for Armstrong. Love the long Armie tracks, though even for the new FG boards I'm running mast really far forward. Longer tracks in other brands would be welcome for sure.

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Windoc said..

Mikedubs said..
Cool, how quickly does the 54l get on the foil, I have a 65L takuma tk and am interested in either the 62 or the 54.

Mike

+1. Any drawbacks you've noticed compared to the Wingdrifter designs for getting going early? Are the boxes far enough forward for Armstrong and Lift - type foils?

I have only used sizes 54 and 72 for now and won't likely be able to try more, before the production ones will be available. Did not find any drawbacks, the more volume in the nose and a slightly narrower shape collects speed well, the waterline is long enough and the board had no trouble going in the direction you want while it's still in the water.

I did not feel any need to have more volume in the tail. But maybe that's just me. I also find that the current KT and Quatro shapes get going easily and more importantly they are absolutely a joy to ride and don't feel sticky at all when touching the water.

Still not able to post links here, seeing a message "Once you've been around a for a bit, you can post links and photos". How long does it take I wonder!? : ) If anybody wants to see examples of what I mean by not being sticky feel free to send a personal message, I have videos.

cheers
Taavi

For those who speak a bit of french, here's a video of Keith explaining the features and construction.
sounds to me like this board was tested mostly in the waves and I can see how the push of some swell along with a board with minimal wet surface could complement each other.

@Taavi, any thoughts on this board vs a board with a more traditional tail?

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Taavi said..

FoilAddict said..

Most of the current or older KT foil boards are also pretty sticky, especially Kai's personal boards. This is probably a massive improvement over that.

This is not what I have experienced with the KT / Quatro foil boards. They don't feel sticky at all.

Sorry, can't provide evidence as I just registered and can't post links. If anybody wants to see my experience with the Quatro Wing drifter 80 L, KT Drifter S 40 litres, and now with the Ginxu prototypes, well let's hope the restriction of posting links to videos will be removed soon.cheers
Taavi

I can finally post video links. This is what I meant by the KT and Quatro boards not feeling sticky at all. Here are two examples of a touchdown. In both of these examples the board even submerges partly, and there is none of this getting stuck feeling like with some other shapes in similar situations.
First example with a Quatro Wing Drifter 80 litres (starts at 01:44)



Second example of a similar situation with a KT Drifter S 40 litres (starts at 02:41)



@NicoDC Sorry, did not have a camera while riding with the Ginxu. For my style of riding I think I will prefer this shape in smaller sizes. Let's see. The 54 (lower picture) felt already like a big and floaty board to me, and gets going super easy. I'm just 72 kg though.