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eppo said..
yes please

Have you got your replacement yet?

My experience with the Flow D-wing:I was an early adopter of the Flow D-Wing. I paid A$1320 for a 3m at the end of January and received it on the 18th of March.The first session was on the ocean in 20-25kn, but I couldn't go upwind. The second session was on flat water in 15-20kn. I got up a couple of times, but still couldn't go upwind. Luckily, my friend has a 3m Flow, so we compared them and found that the bridals differ, and mine flew differently.Contacted Flow and Felipe asked me to ship back my incorrect D-wing. He sent me his personal 3m until a replacement arrived. His personal one flew nicely. It had knots on some brake lines, but I didn't worry about it as it went upwind as expected.Finally, I received the replacement on April 30th. To my surprise, it had the same bridal setup as the first "wrong" one. After two frustrating sessions, I encountered the same issue: it didn't go upwind and was gutless. This is when I asked for a return and a full refund. Finally, they agreed, and I returned the two 3m D-wings.As a manufacturer, I understand that early production has its challenges. However, it was frustrating to encounter the same mistake twice after months of waiting. Despite this, I still believe the D-wing is a fantastic product, and I wish I had waited a bit longer before making the purchase.

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hilly said..

eppo said..
yes please

Have you got your replacement yet?

i asked for the 3.7m so they sent me a 3.7m prototype until the next 3.7m batch is done and I will send back the prototype

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eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
yes please

Have you got your replacement yet?

i asked for the 3.7m so they sent me a 3.7m prototype until the next 3.7m batch is done and I will send back the prototype

I hope it flys better than your 3

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Szabi said..
My experience with the Flow D-wing:I was an early adopter of the Flow D-Wing. I paid A$1320 for a 3m at the end of January and received it on the 18th of March.The first session was on the ocean in 20-25kn, but I couldn't go upwind. The second session was on flat water in 15-20kn. I got up a couple of times, but still couldn't go upwind. Luckily, my friend has a 3m Flow, so we compared them and found that the bridals differ, and mine flew differently.Contacted Flow and Felipe asked me to ship back my incorrect D-wing. He sent me his personal 3m until a replacement arrived. His personal one flew nicely. It had knots on some brake lines, but I didn't worry about it as it went upwind as expected.Finally, I received the replacement on April 30th. To my surprise, it had the same bridal setup as the first "wrong" one. After two frustrating sessions, I encountered the same issue: it didn't go upwind and was gutless. This is when I asked for a return and a full refund. Finally, they agreed, and I returned the two 3m D-wings.As a manufacturer, I understand that early production has its challenges. However, it was frustrating to encounter the same mistake twice after months of waiting. Despite this, I still believe the D-wing is a fantastic product, and I wish I had waited a bit longer before making the purchase.

Damn that sounds like a nightmare! Glad to see your still being fairly positive about the whole situation. It seems like flow are overall doing their best to handle the stuff ups but were just a small business overwhelmed by the amount of orders they got in. Probably weren't prepared for the extreme froth levels Foiler's bring

I just picked up a 5.5m Dwing for a decent price second hand. I only got a chance to fly it briefly in nearly no wind down at the beach. It's certainly a big beast of a thing. Lots of canopy material and quite long lines. I am 6'3 with fairly long arms and it takes my full arm span to be able to run up the lines all the way to the canopy. Packing and stowing might not be feasible for a smaller person with this size of wing. Once bundled up it's not a crazy difference compared to the 4.2m though. Still pretty manageable once bundled up tightly.
Im not necessarily looking to push into really light winds. I'm hoping I can use it to get on my smaller midlength board more of the time. Currently I'm on my downwind board until around 18 to 20 knots. Hopefully the 5.5m will allow me to get on the midlength on the 15 to 18 knot days we often get around Perth. I have also been theorising that with parawings the size is alot less relevant. Once you have them packed away a metre or 2 of material won't make a huge difference. Of course the getting it packed away part is the hard bit and that could be where I come unstuck with the 5.5m.

I will let you all know how I go with it. There's not much info around on using the bigger parawings so I guess I'll have to do some beta testing.

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Youngbreezy said..
I just picked up a 5.5m Dwing for a decent price second hand. I only got a chance to fly it briefly in nearly no wind down at the beach. It's certainly a big beast of a thing. Lots of canopy material and quite long lines. I am 6'3 with fairly long arms and it takes my full arm span to be able to run up the lines all the way to the canopy. Packing and stowing might not be feasible for a smaller person with this size of wing. Once bundled up it's not a crazy difference compared to the 4.2m though. Still pretty manageable once bundled up tightly.
Im not necessarily looking to push into really light winds. I'm hoping I can use it to get on my smaller midlength board more of the time. Currently I'm on my downwind board until around 18 to 20 knots. Hopefully the 5.5m will allow me to get on the midlength on the 15 to 18 knot days we often get around Perth. I have also been theorising that with parawings the size is alot less relevant. Once you have them packed away a metre or 2 of material won't make a huge difference. Of course the getting it packed away part is the hard bit and that could be where I come unstuck with the 5.5m.

I will let you all know how I go with it. There's not much info around on using the bigger parawings so I guess I'll have to do some beta testing.

Getting a bar clip makes it easier to pack away with two hands.

Anyone get an update? Getting more and more frustrated with the lack of communication. The last message I received was 2 weeks ago saying that the replacement would ship in 1 week but still no tracking info.

I know they didn't want to ask customers to fix bridles themselves but I would've been happy to try this fix as I'm sure it would've been faster to ship out the bridle alone.

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hilly said..

Getting a bar clip makes it easier to pack away with two hands.

Bar clip = your armpit

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CFL Foiler said..Bar clip = your armpit

I knew what you meant, just pointing out a simple alternative for packing

the clip would also serve picking away without bar - have it stuffed under your shirt - bar in clip - less chance of line tangle fr a quick deploy.

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hilly said..

eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
yes please

Have you got your replacement yet?

i asked for the 3.7m so they sent me a 3.7m prototype until the next 3.7m batch is done and I will send back the prototype

I hope it flys better than your 3

Yeh only had it on the beach in real
light winds and it's already a lot better funny that hey

Used the 3m yesterday so much nicer than the 4.2m. Like all kites turns better not as heavy on the hands when powered

I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Select to expand quote

Youngbreezy said..
I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Wind direction is important as well. Onshore easy to collapse and stow, cross off not so good especially if I ride back into the wind. I do a similar front line pack up from Dimitri's videos.

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Youngbreezy said..
I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Not quite getting the latter stages. All i know is when i only grab the front lines I have this mess dangling around my feet and legs - and collecting those with the other hand holding the bar doesn't compute with me.

Select to expand quote

hilly said..

Youngbreezy said..
I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Wind direction is important as well. Onshore easy to collapse and stow, cross off not so good especially if I ride back into the wind. I do a similar front line pack up from Dimitri's videos.

Yes I have only tried this in downwind bumps not actual waves. You definitely need to be travelling downwind with a good pace and angle to be able to kill the wing easily with my method. Sometimes it will stay inflated and be difficult to get it flagged properly.
I haven't had a chance to whip into some cross off swell lines so will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

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eppo said..

Youngbreezy said..
I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Not quite getting the latter stages. All i know is when i only grab the front lines I have this mess dangling around my feet and legs - and collecting those with the other hand holding the bar doesn't compute with me.

If you flag the wing by grabbing only the front lines then the rest of the lines and half the canopy are left flapping around by your feet. This is the method Dimtry Evseev uses in Mauritius but I don't like this method as the flapping lines and canopy are messy and will usually get tangled on my board leash. I still flag off the front lines but try to grab all the lines and then the wing draws together in a neater bundle. From there I transfer the bundle to my back hand which is holding the bar and use the free hand to tidy it up.

Select to expand quote

Youngbreezy said..
I have this bar clip already but haven't got around to using it yet. I put together the Sheps setup with the bar clip and the bungee mesh on the front of the life jacket but I didn't like it much. Seems a bit awkward to stuff the wing under the bungee mesh and I don't like the idea of it sticking so far out in front like a massive beer belly. Seems like it would be a lot better down on a waist belt pouch rather than up high in front of you. I am keen to get a stash pouch like the ozone belt but I would really like to see one in person so I can tell if it's going to work for me or not. Nothing around at any shops just yet so I will have to wait a little while.
I haven't really gotten to the stowing stage anyway as I have mostly been learning over the last few months. Plus we're at the least windy time of the year so it's harder to progress. The good days we do get I mostly focus on what already works for me.

I have got a pretty good reliable "wadding" technique and have been getting a good success rate on my redeploy. I have been flagging the wing off the front lines not the back as when I flag from the back lines the wing drops down and back quite erratically
I will bear off downwind, ideally riding on a nice bump.
Depower the wing off the front lines. Run my hand up the lines, making sure to grab all the lines and go all the way to the canopy.
At this point I will turn my hand so the bridal and lines are downwind from the canopy. This really helps to remove any air pockets and cause the canopy to flop down over the bridals and be generally more organised. I think this is a great tip and something I got from Gav hydrofoils videos.
I will be holding the bar in my back hand in its normal flying position. I will then grab the bundle of lines and wing by the back of the canopy, still holding the bar. This keeps the bar in hand in flying position and aligned with the leading edge, giving a much better chance of a successful redeploy.
I will then use my front hand to bundle any loose lines or canopy into a neater package in my back hand.
Holding a nice neat little package in my back hand I feel really free and don't notice the wing being there too much. Getting a really good long run on the bumps, popping the wing back out, getting a successful redeploy and sailing off again is so nice. Doesn't happen every time but now it's at least most of the time.

Interested to hear what others are doing or what you think of my technique.

Not sure I look like having a massive beer gut but this is me with the original 4m Maliko after coming ashore with a wet wing. When dry it's even smaller and well distributed over my chest.like during my session. I can stow and redeploy into this way faster than a belt bum bag and using it in the surf in mind, not just downwinding. Certainly worth a try youngbreezy, especially since you invested the $18 in it! With the new BRM mini boom being so small I can fit it in there without needing the clip, but for larger wings with longer lines the clip really does help. I'm mean it's effortless to clip in and then you have full use of your arms. Speaking with most riders who have attempted to stowthe larger wings, it takes a lot of effort to stow in a bum bag.

The smile says it all

For those who were affected, has anyone received their replacement wing yet?

This is getting really frustrating.

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Capt.Gumby said..
For those who were affected, has anyone received their replacement wing yet?

This is getting really frustrating.

One of my three was shipped yesterday

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Capt.Gumby said..
For those who were affected, has anyone received their replacement wing yet?

This is getting really frustrating.

I reached out earlier this week and they told me my wings would ship next week. They told me the same thing 2.5 weeks ago :(

My 4.2 was also from the bad batch, got the same email 2 weeks ago about "shipping next week" (TM), then email yesterday that it had been shipped. And it arrived this morning!Can't wait to try it out and see how it compares.I had noticed that the lower tip would collapse when it was on it's side at the edge of the window (a la racing kite), loose lift, fall back in the middle of the window and oscillate back and forth like that. So I got to a point where I would move it in a S pattern like an inflatable LE kite to avoid the collapse, but it was really bugging me. Just thought it was the limitation of parawings.Unfortunately it's the end of high wind season here so awaiting the next odd day to really compare on the water.

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frappes said..

Capt.Gumby said..
For those who were affected, has anyone received their replacement wing yet?

This is getting really frustrating.

I reached out earlier this week and they told me my wings would ship next week. They told me the same thing 2.5 weeks ago :(

Considering I ordered my original wing in Jan, didn't receive it until late March despite being told delivery was late feb. Finally, got delivery but the wing was constantly diving down and no ability to go upwind. I compared it to a mates original order of the D-wing 4.2m, it was obvious the bridle configuration was very different. I was contacted it was going to be replaced so I sent an email to Flow requesting a refund as I expected the replacement would be delayed due current order backlog and the amount of units that would have to be replaced. Funnily enough, I didn't get a reply......... Sure enough, a month later and still no idea what's going on.

Considering that they couldn't keep up with the backlog of orders, let alone replacing the faulty batch, refunds should have been offered as an alternative if the wing could not be replaced in a timely manner. Especially when it was stated on Seabreeze they planned to replace those affected in a few weeks....

Out of sheer frustration, as we are in the middle of our season, I bought another brands parawing last week. Sent another email requesting a refund yesterday and this time they answered, apparently now it's on its way..........funny that......


Anyone want a brand new 4.2m D-wing and and stash belt...will be selling it relatively cheap to recover the cost of the new parawing.

Is there any easy way to tell if you have the wrong bridalled version. Im in the market for a second hand one. thanks

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kitesem said..
Is there any easy way to tell if you have the wrong bridalled version. Im in the market for a second hand one. thanks

I was wondering the same thing because I saw a lot of the 4.2 on secondary market and friends want to get for cheaper.So I started mapping the canopy anchor points & lines between my flawed batch 4.2 and newly received corrected batch. (also want to measure lines to understand the difference.) So seems like all anchor points are the same, but didn't measure exact position yet.But the flawed version has 5 A lines (red) on the wing tip while the corrected version has 3 A lines and 2 B lines (orange).It also has two extra brake lines (yellow) on the 4th and 10th rib trailing edge, obvious as it's one line that goes from the bar to the trailing edge straight. (rib on => left and right from the center, wing tip being 12th rib)Going to post the measurements comparison once I've compiled them.Hope that helps

Thanks Atomo
the guy I just bought one from explained that also to me, so you're fully correct. Thanks

Hi all,
I've been following the thread as I'm another victim of the flow xxxx up.
I don't so much mind the manufacturing issue as the lies from FLOW.
Gonna contact us individually, didn't happen! I had to make contact.
Give us a couple of weeks. Still don't have it 4 weeks later.
I email them and they don't respond.
So disappointing, ordered and paid for months ago and they can't even pay us the courtesy of basic communication.