I thought I'd start a seperate D Wing thread since Ive just placed an order for a 4.2 at their introductory price
Ive been resisting for the last 2 weeks.....

Gav from Hydrofoil Academy has posted reviews on the BRM, Ensis Roger and has a Flow D Wing review imminent so it will be interesting to see his thoughts on the Flow. I was going to wait for his review, but bugger it...I'm going with the Aussie product

www.instagram.com/reel/DEV5KpnTYMV/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Waiting for a 4.2. Hoped I would have it by now. Looks like it flys better than the BRM.

We've had both the V1 and V2 Flow on the beach. A few of the BRM fanboys have tried both and say the BRM is better though I probably think it is more different than better. Of note is that these same BRM fanboys have also ordered the Flow D to complement their quiver.
I've only played with the 4.2 on the beach, seems stable but I have little experience so know nothing.

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airsail said..
We've had both the V1 and V2 Flow on the beach. A few of the BRM fanboys have tried both and say the BRM is better though I probably think it is more different than better. Of note is that these same BRM fanboys have also ordered the Flow D to complement their quiver.
I've only played with the 4.2 on the beach, seems stable but I have little experience so know nothing.

Interesting. I'd say I'm one of the BRM fans absolutely! I have to say I'm confused about the talk of the BRM not being stable and thus not going upwind well but this is not my experience. I'm keen to try the D Wing but it looks like more material in the leading edge might have some drawbacks in terms of packing down. It might be more stable for learning on and possibly handle gusts well and cheaper here in Australia too! Personally I'm managing gusts just fine and rocketing upwind on the BRM better than on my conventional wing so more than happy to stay with the original parawing for now.

Pack up - if you are only doing it once then is that an issue But for micro upwind downwind - wave riding - yeh i can see an easier pack down para would be useful.

Epppo

Like this ??

?si=PXxzpbakEnuENeAI

Flow is also about to release wings:

www.instagram.com/p/DD6iOPNTbQK/

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camerongraham said..
Epppo

Like this ??

?si=PXxzpbakEnuENeAI

Wow that vid def showed me how hard it would be for a mortal to use one. It looked like really hard work for Balz. The wing was dead for most of the time & he was pumping it out. It wasn't the usual smooth edited to death promo vids.

Just got a delivery update from Flow
My 4.2M is scheduled to ship second week of February

4.2m D-wing ... 17km run on day1.

Wind was 15 to 18knots.

Ground handling.
Super easy to launch from ground when dry. Doesn't have any issues flying on the front lines and pops down quickly when all the pressure is on the rear lines.

The d-wing held the wind really well and device sits nicely. Does not feel twitchy.

The 4.2m feels as big as the BRM 5.1.
I did an overlay and they are very similar in size.

Took out a 135L DW board and the Duotone 1750 and 225 tail. Rider weight is 110kg.

Was getting plenty of steady pull from d-wing, making board mounting and standing easy.

The wind range was 15 to 18knots. There was dribbling around on the water at 15 knots, but an 18knot gust was enough to get up and stay up. Quite easy to pull the wing towards yourself to generate additional acceleration (parawing pumping).

Big gusts where no issues, just hang on the front lines and push the parawing forward in the wind window.

When the wing was dry, no handling issues. But after a few dunks, i kept dragging the wing tip trying to pump up. I am assuming it is an issue with how I am managing the rear line pressure.

Gybing was easy healside to toeside. Simply added pressure to front lines, steered to 12 oclock and brought it over to the other side.

Toeside to healside was a 50/50 proposition. I kept having the d-wing swing behind me. More practice required.

The d-wing handle is a little thicker than the BRM and made of rubber. Nice grip and feels nice in the hand. I rode the d-wing for 17km and did not have any hand or arm fatigue i did not feel any real need for a harness.

Upwind performance is not as good as a wing, but it is adequate.

Rides well healside or toeside.

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bigtone667 said..
4.2m D-wing ... 17km run on day1.

Wind was 15 to 18knots.

Ground handling.
Super easy to launch from ground when dry. Doesn't have any issues flying on the front lines and pops down quickly when all the pressure is on the rear lines.

The d-wing held the wind really well and device sits nicely. Does not feel twitchy.

The 4.2m feels as big as the BRM 5.1.
I did an overlay and they are very similar in size.

Took out a 135L DW board and the Duotone 1750 and 225 tail. Rider weight is 110kg.

Was getting plenty of steady pull from d-wing, making board mounting and standing easy.

The wind range was 15 to 18knots. There was dribbling around on the water at 15 knots, but an 18knot gust was enough to get up and stay up. Quite easy to pull the wing towards yourself to generate additional acceleration (parawing pumping).

Big gusts where no issues, just hang on the front lines and push the parawing forward in the wind window.

When the wing was dry, no handling issues. But after a few dunks, i kept dragging the wing tip trying to pump up. I am assuming it is an issue with how I am managing the rear line pressure.

Gybing was easy healside to toeside. Simply added pressure to front lines, steered to 12 oclock and brought it over to the other side.

Toeside to healside was a 50/50 proposition. I kept having the d-wing swing behind me. More practice required.

The d-wing handle is a little thicker than the BRM and made of rubber. Nice grip and feels nice in the hand. I rode the d-wing for 17km and did not have any hand or arm fatigue i did not feel any real need for a harness.

Upwind performance is not as good as a wing, but it is adequate.

Rides well healside or toeside.

Thank for the report bigtone, good to get some more real world feedback. Did you get a chance to stow it ? If so how does it compare to the BRM?
what do you think of the flow vs the BRM overall? I know you've just had your first session so probably not that easy to make a decision.

Hey Bigtone667 thank you for the report about the Flow. How many parawinging sessions did you have prior to this to be hitting jibes at those rates? I'm just trying to figure out what I can expect in terms of jibes when I start parawinging. Thanks.

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Youngbreezy said..

bigtone667 said..
4.2m D-wing ... 17km run on day1.

Wind was 15 to 18knots.

Ground handling.
Super easy to launch from ground when dry. Doesn't have any issues flying on the front lines and pops down quickly when all the pressure is on the rear lines.

The d-wing held the wind really well and device sits nicely. Does not feel twitchy.

The 4.2m feels as big as the BRM 5.1.
I did an overlay and they are very similar in size.

Took out a 135L DW board and the Duotone 1750 and 225 tail. Rider weight is 110kg.

Was getting plenty of steady pull from d-wing, making board mounting and standing easy.

The wind range was 15 to 18knots. There was dribbling around on the water at 15 knots, but an 18knot gust was enough to get up and stay up. Quite easy to pull the wing towards yourself to generate additional acceleration (parawing pumping).

Big gusts where no issues, just hang on the front lines and push the parawing forward in the wind window.

When the wing was dry, no handling issues. But after a few dunks, i kept dragging the wing tip trying to pump up. I am assuming it is an issue with how I am managing the rear line pressure.

Gybing was easy healside to toeside. Simply added pressure to front lines, steered to 12 oclock and brought it over to the other side.

Toeside to healside was a 50/50 proposition. I kept having the d-wing swing behind me. More practice required.

The d-wing handle is a little thicker than the BRM and made of rubber. Nice grip and feels nice in the hand. I rode the d-wing for 17km and did not have any hand or arm fatigue i did not feel any real need for a harness.

Upwind performance is not as good as a wing, but it is adequate.

Rides well healside or toeside.

Thank for the report bigtone, good to get some more real world feedback. Did you get a chance to stow it ? If so how does it compare to the BRM?
what do you think of the flow vs the BRM overall? I know you've just had your first session so probably not that easy to make a decision.

I only tried doing a stow on land. I did the same with the BRM 5.1. Because they are both big, it will be something you will need to practice and find your preferred method. I found gathering from the backlines hard, but gathering from the front lines easier. I suspect gathering from the backlines will actually work reasonably well once you are travelling with the wind.

I think the BRM will fly better in lighter conditions because their materials are so much lighter than the d-flow.

I think the d-flow will fly better in over-power conditions because the leading edge seems to hold better. This would suggest the d-flow probably has a wider wind range. The d-flow has more front line bridle support but less rear line than the BRM.

I like them both but I suspect Flows experience with paragliders will give them an edge for a while. Will be interesting to see what the Peak folk produce. And the price of the d-flow is a winner.

And I love the colour coded lines.

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Windbot said..
Hey Bigtone667 thank you for the report about the Flow. How many parawinging sessions did you have prior to this to be hitting jibes at those rates? I'm just trying to figure out what I can expect in terms of jibes when I start parawinging. Thanks.

I have probably had about 20+ sessions on the BRM and only one on the d-flow.

When you first start jibing, expect almost zero success. It is wildly different to winging, as your actually have to both drive the board round and fly the parawing whilst going downwind (so you have less wind in your sail). With winging, you drive the board around and worry about where the wing is after you are around.

My learning from the first few sessions was to simply get the sail to 12 oclock, start your turn and then steer the sail in the new direction you are heading. This has worked pretty well for me.

?si=MMDU0XT9Uy6qOA5o

great review! comments on yt he says the order is flow/ensis/brm for every aspect except packing. So the ensis is the all around good at all and the flow is 1st place crusher except packdown. I have a 4m brm and haven't really had a good session yet where the wind (****e winter wind) has been a good match. I have had a bunch of too light and a little bit of overpowered. I actually got dragged down the beach the other day couldn't depower. My instinct was to pull on front lines but that did not shut it down when i was hit with 30mph gust. I finally yanked back lines and that killed it. Brought me back to kitemare days but just fun, not life threatening. Anyways, I should have my flow 3m soon so, stoked to have a wing that will depower more easily. This parawing craze has got me all giddy again. Like when winging came out.

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broVan said..
great review! comments on yt he says the order is flow/ensis/brm for every aspect except packing. So the ensis is the all around good at all and the flow is 1st place crusher except packdown. I have a 4m brm and haven't really had a good session yet where the wind (****e winter wind) has been a good match. I have had a bunch of too light and a little bit of overpowered. I actually got dragged down the beach the other day couldn't depower. My instinct was to pull on front lines but that did not shut it down when i was hit with 30mph gust. I finally yanked back lines and that killed it. Brought me back to kitemare days but just fun, not life threatening. Anyways, I should have my flow 3m soon so, stoked to have a wing that will depower more easily. This parawing craze has got me all giddy again. Like when winging came out.

Being able to balance on the front lines is really nice in over-powered gusts.

Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

3M first run


?si=h0nK23nqQqWVw90X

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bigtone667 said..
Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

How does it pack away compared to BRM?

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camerongraham said..
3M first run

?si=h0nK23nqQqWVw90X

That really looks like 10-14Kn and he seems to have discovered the 3M works about as well as the 4.2.

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hilly said..

bigtone667 said..
Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

How does it pack away compared to BRM?

The BRM 5.1 packs down smaller than the 4.2m (the d-flow uses a heavier material).

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bigtone667 said..

hilly said..

bigtone667 said..
Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

How does it pack away compared to BRM?

The BRM 5.1 packs down smaller than the 4.2m (the d-flow uses a heavier material).

Pack down size is a pretty important feature when selecting a parawing. Is that with the lighter weight material they are switching too? Was this a production version?

Gav from hydrofoil academy said that you should not parawing in the surf. What are everyone's thoughts about that?

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BrendanRobb said..
Gav from hydrofoil academy said that you should not parawing in the surf. What are everyone's thoughts about that?

I tend to agree that the surf zone is not the first place you should take a parawing. I would not want to get rolled in my bridles because of an unexpected breach with the parawing semi collapsed in my hands. But like anything once you get really comfortable on it I think it could be manageable. Right now I think I would prefer to wing still if I am riding in place in the surf zone.

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BrendanRobb said..
Gav from hydrofoil academy said that you should not parawing in the surf. What are everyone's thoughts about that?

ATM yes as I am a kook on a parawing but in the future I can see it being legit. Wings get destroyed in the impact zone so better that that outcome. Maybe a float?

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BrendanRobb said..
Gav from hydrofoil academy said that you should not parawing in the surf. What are everyone's thoughts about that?

You don't want to have breaking waves behind you until long after it's fully collapsed with the lines wrapped up nicely and the whole thing in a single bundle in one hand with no dangling lines and fabric. Then I don't see the problem. It becomes like regular surf foiling. Pump out to get clear ideally. If you come off, hold on to your bundle tight, get on the board, stash the wing fully (you probably want to have a belt or a stash vest or something to stuff it into) and prone paddle back out. No drama. Far rather this than an inflatable wing in the same situation - I for one avoid winging into the crunch zone.

You probably don't want to try redeploying the parawing in the crunch zone - if that goes wrong you have a situation.

Where the parawing works worse than a regular wing for surf is getting onto a wave in the first place, in cross to cross-off conditions. With a regular wing you can pick your spot, line up perfectly and flag out. With a parawing, it's very hard to stow the wing without bearing off downwind to collapse and wrap. This makes getting onto the wave much harder as you're simultaneously dealing with packing up the wing and trying to get the right angle and timing for the wave you're trying to catch without necessarily having the ideal position and trajectory. You lose a lot of ground downwind in the process, which means you may end up on the wrong part of the wave.

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StephenZ said..
I for one avoid winging into the crunch zone.

Advice for life!

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CFL Foiler said..

bigtone667 said..

hilly said..

bigtone667 said..
Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

How does it pack away compared to BRM?

The BRM 5.1 packs down smaller than the 4.2m (the d-flow uses a heavier material).

Pack down size is a pretty important feature when selecting a parawing. Is that with the lighter weight material they are switching too? Was this a production version?

I believe it is the production version ....

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bigtone667 said..

CFL Foiler said..

bigtone667 said..

hilly said..

bigtone667 said..
Got out today in 20 to 25 knots on 4.2m d-flow on 7'8" DW board and 1450 whizz foil.

I was fully lit in the 25 knot gusts but no issues leaning entirely on the front lines. No front edge collapsing and popping back out.

How does it pack away compared to BRM?

The BRM 5.1 packs down smaller than the 4.2m (the d-flow uses a heavier material).

Pack down size is a pretty important feature when selecting a parawing. Is that with the lighter weight material they are switching too? Was this a production version?

I believe it is the production version ....

Ah bummer. Still looks like a solid option especially at the lower price. Hopefully BRM will go on sale again I need a 3m and think I will just stick with BRM as pack down size is a big one for me, goal is just to use it a few times per session to hook into the dw bumps.