Armstrong HA 1325.

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longboard > 9 months ago, 12 Sep 2021

MidAtlanticFoil

825 posts

18 Nov 2021 10:22am

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BigSeppo said..
1st day on the HA1325.

Experienced prone foiler. Decent winger (jibing, duck jibing, haven't tacked on foil yet, riding waves). A big unit at 6'4"+ and 100+++ kgs. Winging a lighter wind day -- mid teens. Usually riding mid-aspect HS1850 at my size, in tiny Florida surf and light Florida winds.

Important note: No real previous experience with high aspect, and 1325 is probably the smallest area wing I have used.

First big takeaways...

Negatives.

* A fairly technical foil to ride. (or maybe that's my unfamiliarity with high aspect or the small size by my standards.)
* Did not like quick pitch changes upward even while at speed up on foil. It.would fall out of the sky on me, particularly on my bad side. (Once I figured out that issue on my bad side, and paid attention, it was less of an issue, but I still focused on it.)
* Needed real wind / board speed to get going. Since I was unfamiliar with it's take off, I almost needed enough wind to pull you in the air on a mid-aspect foil without pumping... PLUS some arm pumps and leg "scoots" (as opposed to full leg pumps).

Positives.

* Once you were up and sorted it was certainly quick and smooth. Relax and it was effortless on my good side, no drag or resistance.
* Tons of glide around jibes and such, as expected. But does require a different technique to exit jibes, as the wide flat foil acts different than a narrower one with curved tips.

Going forward I will look for slightly overpowered conditions to dial it in. I would give the same advice to others like me who might be familiar with the Armstrong HS line and trying out the HA line for the first time.

I was stoked to get on it. It turned out to be more technical than I expected. Stoked to ultimately get it dialed at some point

Your experience sounds a lot like my first time on the 1125. After a few sessions those negatives will be fading in the rear view mirror.

Also note that these HA wings can be more finicky to dial in. Tail wings, shims, mast placement are crucial to get the right feel. If you have straps, consider taking them off, because foot placement is also a bit different than the HS line. More narrow stance can help.

stanley71

223 posts

18 Nov 2021 6:11pm

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stroppo said..
I definitely want a 725 this might just be what I need to crack 30kts

have you managed to get your custom 'extra long' fuselage to go with that 725? ??

BigSeppo

120 posts

20 Nov 2021 1:19am

Day 2.

All good now!

Got rid of the low speed pitch slams. Was completing jibes in both directions. Much faster wing than the HS1850. Far longer glides when the wing is totally depowered.

What changed from Day 1?

* I sailed a bit overpowered, with a 5.5 in 20 gusting to 25 mph. (I'm a really big guy, so it was fine.)
* I sailed in flat water, which made it easier to get board speed before flying and to learn to gauge the board speed needed before flying.
* I went to much smaller leg pumps (if at all)... and certainly no "ollie" to get flying, mostly arm pumps. I just got a lot of board speed before flying.
* I used a chop-shopped 300 tail wing. Certainly slower. But pitch control was smoother.

These tips might simply be tips for anyone going from HS to HA. But they certainly worked extremely well for going from HS1850 to HA1325. As MidAtlantic Foil has basically said, I might not go back to the HS1850, except when its too light to get the board speed up to get the HA1325 flying.

The last thing for me to fix 100% is, when you are 50% to 75% around in your jibe, you have to keep it a bit on edge... Like a snowboard it wants your input of what edge it's supposed to be on, in the jibe. If you don't keep a bit of an edge it will get a bit squirrely just after 50% through the jibe and can even sort of turn the other way on you. If you kind of "take command" a bit more than normal then it does what it's supposed to.

No use in the surf yet, either prone or wing. Just trying to dial it in flat water today.

Hope this helps somebody.

BigSeppo

120 posts

20 Nov 2021 11:55pm

Got the chance to ride the HA1125 today for the first time, with a 3 5 wing.

No problem! Sweet! Lssons learned from the HA1325 translated perfectly. As if it was the same foil, basically.

I thought at my big size the 1325 would be my small foil. But the 1125 was the right foil for the conditions for me today.

BigSeppo

120 posts

22 Nov 2021 12:24am

Day 3. Went out in high teens today. Started with the 1325 and 232. Had plenty of power. It was doing the reverse turn thing 1/2 to 3/4 into jibes. I need to commit to the edge a bit more than I was at that point in the jibe with the 1325.

Was soon pretty lit, so I swapped down to the 1125. Perfect. More user friendly feel / control on the 1125 today than the 1325. No shims used yet.

Looks like the 1325 is a lighter wind winging foil for me than I expected. Said another way, looks like I will get more use out of the 1125 than expected.

Hope all this commentary helps someone make their decisions about what to get and how to get it dialed quick.

johnj2000

13 posts

26 Nov 2021 3:31am

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hilly said..

windrider323 said..Did you hear about more foil sizes Hilly? Or just the tail?

Plus 1525/525 and 190 tail by end of year, apparently.

Nobody has more fresh news regarding the new jewelry releases? ....... curiuos HA195 could further unlock my 1325 :-))))

greg87foil

145 posts

26 Nov 2021 6:43am

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johnj2000 said..

hilly said..

windrider323 said..Did you hear about more foil sizes Hilly? Or just the tail?

Plus 1525/525 and 190 tail by end of year, apparently.

Nobody has more fresh news regarding the new jewelry releases? ....... curiuos HA195 could further unlock my 1325 :-))))

HA195 is the shiny diamond everyone's waiting for now

longboard

179 posts

26 Nov 2021 7:50am

My dealer reckons another week or so for the 195...seems most things are "a week or 2 away" given the current shortages across the industry...

Pat WA 1965

43 posts

28 Nov 2021 1:14pm

Re: You Tube Video: HA1325 Glide: Nico Sacco: thought Armstrong's comments re tail shimming in the vid description we're helpful, screen shot below:

Foilnut

181 posts

28 Nov 2021 10:04pm

PAT WA 1965. good info

So.

How much are people bringing the mast forward if going to + 0.5 or + 1.0 deg shim if no shim(-1 deg) is your baseline?

Conversely are riders moving mast back with Kane minus shims?

leepasty

424 posts

28 Nov 2021 10:09pm

On the 925 for me mast goes forward 1cm when add the red shim on 232. The v tail needs forward another cm.
I think Kane is using negative shim as his board has tracks at back and it's also super windy when he's on the 925 with v tail which is why he -3 or -4

greg87foil

145 posts

29 Nov 2021 1:53am

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Foilnut said..
PAT WA 1965. good info

So.

How much are people bringing the mast forward if going to + 0.5 or + 1.0 deg shim if no shim(-1 deg) is your baseline?

Conversely are riders moving mast back with Kane minus shims?

Depends what feeling you want to create:

(1) positive shimming and mast forward: doing this gives less drag but makes the setup also more pitch sensitive. The horizontal distance between the center of gravity of the rider, and the center of lift of the front wing is smaller, so a small shift of the rider fore/aft has a big effect on the pitch moment.

(2) negative shimming and mast backward: this creates slightly more drag in the tail wing, but also more down force at speed. So in order to compensate, the center of gravity of the rider w.r.t. the center of lift of the front wing, has to increase. But this kind of brings "tension" into the system which is desirable when going faster and when you have an external power source (wing/kite). Since the distance between the c.g. of the rider and the center of lift of the front wing is larger, a shift in weight fore/aft has a smaller effect on the pitch moment.

This is how I've come to think about shimming for different purposes (wing vs prone). I always used to think that as you get better (your muscle memory is able to deal with the pitch sensitivity better over time) you can move mast forward and add + shims, but I'm seeing that for different purposes negative shimming can actually be beneficial too.

But curious to hear how other people think about shimming.

kobo

NSW

1107 posts

29 Nov 2021 6:36am

Used to think positive shimming was the ultimate setup as it has the least drag and you could go faster.........but it made pumping harder as the board took longer to come up under my feet on every pump, makes doing harder turns more difficult because you have to deal with sensative pitch control, foot placement becomes more critical, and unexplained dives while pumping or at speed can also occur with too much positive tail pitch.
So I agree ,you can go too far !

eppo

9762 posts

29 Nov 2021 6:44am

Great explanation above. I suppose that's why I've settled on minus 1 (old system with a reversed red shim - so no shim on the A plus) for both prone and wing (a bit of a compromise) but I'm running the mast at 7 on the FG. But yeh still a work in progress - it never ends I suppose. For winging I don't have any stall issues on the 925 at all. I'm still getting caught out when pumping out prone on the 925 but it's getting better everytime which means its more of a technique thing.

MidAtlanticFoil

825 posts

29 Nov 2021 9:22am

Great description Greg.
I've been stuck riding river and bay bumps lately with the wing and the + shimming has been working well for me. I'm lightweight and lack of real powerful swell. The looseness of towing at an oncoming bump powered up and pivoting 270 degrees the other direction, banking a de-powered gybe, is really nice with the FG setup positively shimmed. Maybe when I finally try the negatively shimmed setup I'll do the same maneuver with more initial speed and pull more Gs rather than a more of a setup maneuver to ride the bump de-powered. Sounds fun!

I will say the positive shimming locks me in the flow state quite a lot, as you are always on the edge a bit. The easier the foil is to fly in benign conditions, the higher likelihood of boredom. In more challenging conditions, boredom is never a concern!
My last session was with a 100cm mast and it really freed up the room for the 'wandering' the wing can do when not really driving it DWing bumps, as there's more time to correct and apply positive direction for the foil.

baldy123

452 posts

3 Dec 2021 10:33am

Anyone using the 1325 with any success on the SUP? I tried it for a few sessions. It didn't have enough low end lift for me at 85kg. I'm sure for winging it would give endless glide. However my goal for the 1325 was downwind sup. I've since sold it and moved onto a Big Blue wing with much more low speed lift. I'm not quite sold on the bigger HA wings by Armstrong. Will be interesting to see if the 1525 has a similar and even wider outline.

MidAtlanticFoil

825 posts

3 Dec 2021 9:22pm

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baldy123 said..
Anyone using the 1325 with any success on the SUP? I tried it for a few sessions. It didn't have enough low end lift for me at 85kg. I'm sure for winging it would give endless glide. However my goal for the 1325 was downwind sup. I've since sold it and moved onto a Big Blue wing with much more low speed lift. I'm not quite sold on the bigger HA wings by Armstrong. Will be interesting to see if the 1525 has a similar and even wider outline.

Not sure if you follow Oskar J on Instagram but he recently started DWing with the 1325. He's lighter than you and pretty much a freak.so he makes it look easy. the 1525 will probably be the better option at your weight.
www.instagram.com/tv/CV_bvcpF_KT/?utm_medium=copy_link

baldy123

452 posts

3 Dec 2021 10:39pm

Yeah Oskar is a freak and Awesome foiler. The lack of low speed lift and higher stall speed of the HA1325 and possibly the HA1525 doesn't make them friendly for paddle up downwind. Once they are moving then, yes endless glide. I jumped on a GT2200 and instant love at first flight. Can't say I had the same response to the HA1325. In my opinion Armstrong is still not targeting the niche SUP downwind market. It is excelling in surf, kite, wing and towing though, with plenty of stock flying of the shelves here in Oz.

MidAtlanticFoil

825 posts

4 Dec 2021 12:56am

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baldy123 said..
Yeah Oskar is a freak and Awesome foiler. The lack of low speed lift and higher stall speed of the HA1325 and possibly the HA1525 doesn't make them friendly for paddle up downwind. Once they are moving then, yes endless glide. I jumped on a GT2200 and instant love at first flight. Can't say I had the same response to the HA1325. In my opinion Armstrong is still not targeting the niche SUP downwind market. It is excelling in surf, kite, wing and towing though, with plenty of stock flying of the shelves here in Oz.

Yeah big part of it is the testing method behind the designs. You know a lot of DW Sup goes into the testing/development of GF!

hilly

7979 posts

4 Dec 2021 5:49pm

Disagree with the high speed needed for lift. Went out in a light breeze with sprint tail and got up so easy massive glide. Trundling down wind on knee high wind swell was fun. Got up really easy for my 105kg and carried for ages. I am split on HA wings. Love some parts hate others. hmmmm clip or not to clip??

Foilove

VIC

17 posts

4 Dec 2021 10:19pm

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hilly said..
Disagree with the high speed needed for lift. Went out in a light breeze with sprint tail and got up so easy massive glide. Trundling down wind on knee high wind swell was fun. Got up really easy for my 105kg and carried for ages. I am split on HA wings. Love some parts hate others. hmmmm clip or not to clip??

Yes I'm having the same Chop dilemma with my 1325, love it for the glide and super easy to get going with it in the lightest breeze, for my 95kg. However, I really struggle turn and do 360's on it, just wants to go straight. But didn't buy it for those manoeuvres, was really just trying to see what it was capable of.

I'm going to try and catch some ship wake tomorrow, with the foil drive, if successful I'll be very pleased and won't need the 1525..

leepasty

424 posts

4 Dec 2021 8:26pm

Just chopped both my 925 & 1325
will test next week once stitches out

Foilove

VIC

17 posts

5 Dec 2021 7:32am

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leepasty said..
Just chopped both my 925 & 1325
will test next week once stitches out

How far can you chop the tips, before reaching the core?
what is the recommended amount to cut off in general?

johnj2000

13 posts

6 Dec 2021 12:54am

I have all the HA but I can't understand how advantageous it can be to cut a 1325 to make it as maneuverable (and as capable) as an 1125. I say this because I am 90kg mostly winging and I see that there is certainly a difference in the low end between 1325-1125 but not a lot ...... and I imagine that chopping 1325 I won't have a low end and a turning different from 1125 ......... maybe for heavier riders it's different but I'm confident armstrong designers have conceived that a wing is performing with all its parts (intact together)............... same for 1125-925

leepasty

424 posts

6 Dec 2021 2:13am

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johnj2000 said..
I have all the HA but I can't understand how advantageous it can be to cut a 1325 to make it as maneuverable (and as capable) as an 1125. I say this because I am 90kg mostly winging and I see that there is certainly a difference in the low end between 1325-1125 but not a lot ...... and I imagine that chopping 1325 I won't have a low end and a turning different from 1125 ......... maybe for heavier riders it's different but I'm confident armstrong designers have conceived that a wing is performing with all its parts (intact together)............... same for 1125-925

I only chopped for safety as landed on the 925 with my armpit last week and got 4 internal 6 external stitches. Doc said was lucky didn't hit anything vital ??
loved them as they were but excited to see if turning improves. Chopped 2.5cm off 925, 3.5 off 1325.
Although sharp tips might be more efficient there needs to be an element of safety for surf and wing use as it's so easy to land on the foil not like ac yachts & moths or kiting where you always fall well away

stroppo

747 posts

6 Dec 2021 7:31am

Has anybody got a pic of the 1525 yet and is it still getting coming out very shortly thanks in advance

leepasty

424 posts

14 Dec 2021 1:04am

Been back on the wing last few days and no loss in performance from the chopped 925. Was no real waves so couldn't tell if turns better?
The chopped 1325 is definitely better turning rail to rail and no loss in glide or take off speed.
Very happy with them chopped and can wait for proper wind and waves to test the 925 end of the week

BZRider

16 posts

14 Dec 2021 11:27am

Leepatsy, I chopped my 925 yesterday (to make it safer and turn better) and it felt great on the water today. Thanks for the inspiration.

SquintEastwood

23 posts

28 Dec 2021 1:17am

Can anyone compare the light wind ability of the HA1325 with the HS1550V2? Which wing takes less board speed to get on foil?

Windoc

452 posts

28 Dec 2021 1:38am

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BZRider said..
Leepatsy, I chopped my 925 yesterday (to make it safer and turn better) and it felt great on the water today. Thanks for the inspiration.

BZRider and Leepasty, what percentage improvement over stock are you getting in turning from chopping the tips? The 925 just gets better and better for me the more I ride it as is. Still getting to grips turning the 1125 hard (feels like more of a high efficiency cruiser).

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