IMO I think the tips are too pointy, could have used more chord and that an "even" size cm2 should have been used. This way the length would've been reduced and Armstrong probably would've sold more foils to kiters too. The 825 would've been perfect for kiting and high wind winging and the 1025 would've been the "go to" for many.

The 725 will have too little cm2 for kiting freestyle, unless you're 60kg

1325 -> 1225
1125 -> 1025
925 -> 825
725 -> 625
525 -> 425 - not sure who'd ever use such a small foil

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Pacey said..

dejavu said...
Some other similar HA ratio wings tend to carry more of their area out towards the wing tips and appear to have a narrower chord -- not sure how this translates on the water performance wise.

Having broader tips reduces the local loading at the tips and makes tip stall less likely, however you can also do that with washout (twist) or a reduction in camber at the tips (aerodynamic twist). Without being able to inspect the wing closely its hard to say what path Armstrong have taken, however the number of people who report less tip stall when Armstrong HA wings are chopped suggests that the the tips are a little overloaded.

Not heard of many chopping the ha925 or 1125 though? hopefully someone's who's over 85kg has got 2 ha1325 so can do direct comparison chopped and unchopped

I have ridden a chopped 1125, it turned much better than unchopped.

I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

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north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Select to expand quote

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Without distracting the thread, I don't kite race, I like freestyle boosting high jumps, flipping, and going fast occasionally, can go 30+ knots on the 800/400 setup. The 800/400 has amazing glide for carving harbour chop for my weight and is very efficient through the water, very little drag.

I'm very impressed you can go 30knots on the HS850, I've never seen anyone go that fast on Armstrong at my local beach and I could never go that fast with it, and the only guys that beat me are on mikeslab race foils.

I have owned and tried these foils below for kiting too, but bear in mind it's based on my weight (95-100kgs) and experience:
- HS1050, ok for kiting but not efficient through the water, too much drag, no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669, get's better with larger swell/chop
- HS850, ok for kiting efficient through the water but no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669mm, and not as fast as the 800. I had to have lot's of forward momentum to keep this wing flying at my weight, which was strange as it is 10cm2 more than the 800.

Select to expand quote

north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Without distracting the thread, I don't kite race, I like freestyle boosting high jumps, flipping, and going fast occasionally, can go 30+ knots on the 800/400 setup. The 800/400 has amazing glide for carving harbour chop for my weight and is very efficient through the water, very little drag.

I'm very impressed you can go 30knots on the HS850, I've never seen anyone go that fast on Armstrong at my local beach and I could never go that fast with it, and the only guys that beat me are on mikeslab race foils.

I have owned and tried these foils below for kiting too, but bear in mind it's based on my weight (95-100kgs) and experience:
- HS1050, ok for kiting but not efficient through the water, too much drag, no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669, get's better with larger swell/chop
- HS850, ok for kiting efficient through the water but no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669mm, and not as fast as the 800. I had to have lot's of forward momentum to keep this wing flying at my weight, which was strange as it is 10cm2 more than the 800.

Ok
gliding and carving chop on kite foil is very niche. Sounds like you must be on a peak4 or something? Gliding and carving swell is why I wing and for winging find the ha925 is amazing from 15knts with decent swell and can't wait for the ha1325 for light wind and small lumps as well as flat water

Select to expand quote

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Without distracting the thread, I don't kite race, I like freestyle boosting high jumps, flipping, and going fast occasionally, can go 30+ knots on the 800/400 setup. The 800/400 has amazing glide for carving harbour chop for my weight and is very efficient through the water, very little drag.

I'm very impressed you can go 30knots on the HS850, I've never seen anyone go that fast on Armstrong at my local beach and I could never go that fast with it, and the only guys that beat me are on mikeslab race foils.

I have owned and tried these foils below for kiting too, but bear in mind it's based on my weight (95-100kgs) and experience:
- HS1050, ok for kiting but not efficient through the water, too much drag, no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669, get's better with larger swell/chop
- HS850, ok for kiting efficient through the water but no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669mm, and not as fast as the 800. I had to have lot's of forward momentum to keep this wing flying at my weight, which was strange as it is 10cm2 more than the 800.

Ok
gliding and carving chop on kite foil is very niche. Sounds like you must be on a peak4 or something? Gliding and carving swell is why I wing and for winging find the ha925 is amazing from 15knts with decent swell and can't wait for the ha1325 for light wind and small lumps as well as flat water

Oh I fly Ozone Chrono's, just park them and they drift but the foil is doing most of the heavy lifting so to speak allowing a slow speed and carving chop. Some guys say they experience the same of the art 999, and I can't really do it that well on the 925.

I find the 925 too wide for kiting (was thinking about chop shop) and don't use it, it becomes difficult to handle at high speed with a close period confused sea state.

What tail you using with your 925?

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eppo said..
What tail you using with your 925?

I tried both kiting 232 and v200. 232 better for kiting.
for winging I tried the v200, but I think I'll go back to 232 while I'm getting use to the 925 winging

Clipped it will be the same width as the 1125

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north_kiter said..

eppo said..
What tail you using with your 925?

I tried both kiting 232 and v200. 232 better for kiting.
for winging I tried the v200, but I think I'll go back to 232 while I'm getting use to the 925 winging

Yeh I use the chopped 232 now. Pretty much given up on the V tail - maybe for downwinders. Awaiting the Ha tail myself.

I think the vtail is good for lighter riders or with wave assist, I'd like to use more in waves but not possible where I'm located

no merciful tester of 1325 can enlighten us who are anxiously waiting to receive ours?

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johnj2000 said..
no merciful tester of 1325 can enlighten us who are anxiously waiting to receive ours?

Some wake vid here www.facebook.com/100065029698199/videos/220144803538976/

Oskar's riding it DW here. He picked up SUP DW with this wing...pretty impressive! Chatting with him, he said he hopes to be able to get to the 1125 for DW, but the 1325 has been the way to go for learning.

www.instagram.com/tv/CVxUQ1QFOf-/?utm_medium=copy_link

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johnj2000 said..
no merciful tester of 1325 can enlighten us who are anxiously waiting to receive ours?

Ridden it twice now.
The pump & glide is sublime. Superior to the 1125 as it should be I suppose.

FYI- I use these HA & HS foils exclusively for winging & chasing down swell of any description - not for surfing, but that's just me.

What I found interesting was the stall speed - almost as low as the HS1850 but the top end speed was way beyond the HS1850, more like the top speed of a much smaller foil.

Testing it's top speed it had a similar locked in feel to the 1125, the balance at speed of these HA foils is much better to me than the HA foils for some reason - ie. Front /back foot pressure.
It seems the HA foils are happy to go fast without the risk of breaching like the HS foils.

Turns on the 1325 are longer and more drawn out than an HS foil, but the glide is so ridiculously long that I was actually chuckling to myself during the turns as the glide went on and on...and on...and on...u get the picture!

For me I think I've found a foil that has a surprisingly incredible low end and can handle higher speed comfortably as well...I think it's a keeper!

The HA 195 tail is coming later this month - can't wait to pair it with the 1325&1125...

(For reference : I'm 80kg soaking wet, intermediate/advanced skill)

I'm happy to try & answer any other questions - it's all just my humble opinion so take it with a pinch'...!

Select to expand quote

longboard said..

johnj2000 said..
no merciful tester of 1325 can enlighten us who are anxiously waiting to receive ours?

Ridden it twice now.
The pump & glide is sublime. Superior to the 1125 as it should be I suppose.

FYI- I use these HA & HS foils exclusively for winging & chasing down swell of any description - not for surfing, but that's just me.

What I found interesting was the stall speed - almost as low as the HS1850 but the top end speed was way beyond the HS1850, more like the top speed of a much smaller foil.

Testing it's top speed it had a similar locked in feel to the 1125, the balance at speed of these HA foils is much better to me than the HA foils for some reason - ie. Front /back foot pressure.
It seems the HA foils are happy to go fast without the risk of breaching like the HS foils.

Turns on the 1325 are longer and more drawn out than an HS foil, but the glide is so ridiculously long that I was actually chuckling to myself during the turns as the glide went on and on...and on...and on...u get the picture!

For me I think I've found a foil that has a surprisingly incredible low end and can handle higher speed comfortably as well...I think it's a keeper!

The HA 195 tail is coming later this month - can't wait to pair it with the 1325&1125...

(For reference : I'm 80kg soaking wet, intermediate/advanced skill)

I'm happy to try & answer any other questions - it's all just my humble opinion so take it with a pinch'...!

Fantastic report, thank you! pretty excited waiting for mine on tuesday I suppose ..... did you pair it with 232 or V? fuselage 60?

Select to expand quote

johnj2000 said..

longboard said..

johnj2000 said..
no merciful tester of 1325 can enlighten us who are anxiously waiting to receive ours?

Ridden it twice now.
The pump & glide is sublime. Superior to the 1125 as it should be I suppose.

FYI- I use these HA & HS foils exclusively for winging & chasing down swell of any description - not for surfing, but that's just me.

What I found interesting was the stall speed - almost as low as the HS1850 but the top end speed was way beyond the HS1850, more like the top speed of a much smaller foil.

Testing it's top speed it had a similar locked in feel to the 1125, the balance at speed of these HA foils is much better to me than the HA foils for some reason - ie. Front /back foot pressure.
It seems the HA foils are happy to go fast without the risk of breaching like the HS foils.

Turns on the 1325 are longer and more drawn out than an HS foil, but the glide is so ridiculously long that I was actually chuckling to myself during the turns as the glide went on and on...and on...and on...u get the picture!

For me I think I've found a foil that has a surprisingly incredible low end and can handle higher speed comfortably as well...I think it's a keeper!

The HA 195 tail is coming later this month - can't wait to pair it with the 1325&1125...

(For reference : I'm 80kg soaking wet, intermediate/advanced skill)

I'm happy to try & answer any other questions - it's all just my humble opinion so take it with a pinch'...!

Fantastic report, thank you! pretty excited waiting for mine on tuesday I suppose ..... did you pair it with 232 or V? fuselage 60?

you're most welcome!

I've been using the 60 fuse' and a modified Signature Performance Gear HA tail - the 18' Sprint. (thanks for the steer on that one Hilly!)
having tried the v200 on other armies foils I find it way too sensitive in pitch & roll - something that guys in the surf must be loving.
I haven't tried my 232 with the 1325 yet but I'm sure it would pair well - until the HA195 is released!

Alright sold my 1850 and 2400 to justify the 1325. Last time I rode the 1850 it kinda felt like a dog coming from the 1125. Giving up on keeping the 2400 to teach someone. Will be interesting to ride the 1325 at only 65kgs.

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hilly said..

looks like effortless quick cadence pumping. Nice.

So would this now be THE Armstrong wing to learn to DW on? Especially if stall speed is similar to HS1850

Maybe the 1325 will be the one. but the marketing plan seems to be to bring out an even better one shortly after you buy the last one released. I am already tempted by the 725 but really the 925 is pretty good in the waves. Isn't a 1550 ha coming soon?

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tomooh said..
Maybe the 1325 will be the one. but the marketing plan seems to be to bring out an even better one shortly after you buy the last one released. I am already tempted by the 725 but really the 925 is pretty good in the waves. Isn't a 1550 ha coming soon?

There is thread with Armie being interviewed by Blue Planet, he talks about a HA525 for kiting and HA1525 for "big rippers".

1st session on the 1325 today. Ran the 50 fuse and 232 set at +0.5. Conditions were flat with side offshore winds ranging from 0-20kmh due to major shadowing. 60L FG board (I'm 65kgs).
Initial thoughts: easy to get up on foil in the gusts. Really nice glide. Challenging conditions because after the gust wind dropped significantly and gybes were negative wind essentially. Nailed a Heineken gybe and pumped though toeside 1/3 tries. Nailed a few tacks and the stall speed was nice and slow.
I think it was a mistake putting the 50 fuse on without bumps to bank off. The 60 fuse would have allowed more banking speed though gybes I think. The 50 gybes were super fast and apparent wind would disappear too quick.
One stronger gust hit me on a broad reach and almost pulled me over the windward rail because it was so locked in with the wide span. pumping felt awesome.
can't wait for a nice side onshore day to test the bump riding.

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north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Without distracting the thread, I don't kite race, I like freestyle boosting high jumps, flipping, and going fast occasionally, can go 30+ knots on the 800/400 setup. The 800/400 has amazing glide for carving harbour chop for my weight and is very efficient through the water, very little drag.

I'm very impressed you can go 30knots on the HS850, I've never seen anyone go that fast on Armstrong at my local beach and I could never go that fast with it, and the only guys that beat me are on mikeslab race foils.

I have owned and tried these foils below for kiting too, but bear in mind it's based on my weight (95-100kgs) and experience:
- HS1050, ok for kiting but not efficient through the water, too much drag, no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669, get's better with larger swell/chop
- HS850, ok for kiting efficient through the water but no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669mm, and not as fast as the 800. I had to have lot's of forward momentum to keep this wing flying at my weight, which was strange as it is 10cm2 more than the 800.

Ok
gliding and carving chop on kite foil is very niche. Sounds like you must be on a peak4 or something? Gliding and carving swell is why I wing and for winging find the ha925 is amazing from 15knts with decent swell and can't wait for the ha1325 for light wind and small lumps as well as flat water

Oh I fly Ozone Chrono's, just park them and they drift but the foil is doing most of the heavy lifting so to speak allowing a slow speed and carving chop. Some guys say they experience the same of the art 999, and I can't really do it that well on the 925.

I find the 925 too wide for kiting (was thinking about chop shop) and don't use it, it becomes difficult to handle at high speed with a close period confused sea state.

Hey NK
I mainly kite foil armie kit but you mentioned using a Chrono to foil chop or swell. Imo I have owned the chrono & Peter Lynn nova which are good but then changed to Flysurfer Peak 4s mainly for ease of use and unmatched drift.Just have to use right size Peak 4 for the given wind strength.Super fun basically forgetting you have a kite and foiling chop or swell.

Select to expand quote

north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..

leepasty said..

north_kiter said..
I ride Moses (kiting )and Armstrong winging (1550v2/1250/925), and I advise you to try the 800/400 combo from Moses, for kiting this wins hands down no competition at all, I have the Moses 1000 for winging and it'll be interesting to see which one I keep, 925 or the 1000 for winging for flat water. I think Armstrong wins for wave assist but with no wave assist Moses is the clear leader.

Why does the Moses win for kiting? Depends what you want to do on the kite. If flat water race style then it doesn't beat a race foil. for Freeride and jumping I'd say the span is bit big. I can do 30knts and jump 10m on the Armstrong hs850 no probs but if want to go upwind/downwind fast I use a race foil. for kite the ha525 might work well if you wanna go upwind/downwind on a Armstrong and not a race foil

Without distracting the thread, I don't kite race, I like freestyle boosting high jumps, flipping, and going fast occasionally, can go 30+ knots on the 800/400 setup. The 800/400 has amazing glide for carving harbour chop for my weight and is very efficient through the water, very little drag.

I'm very impressed you can go 30knots on the HS850, I've never seen anyone go that fast on Armstrong at my local beach and I could never go that fast with it, and the only guys that beat me are on mikeslab race foils.

I have owned and tried these foils below for kiting too, but bear in mind it's based on my weight (95-100kgs) and experience:
- HS1050, ok for kiting but not efficient through the water, too much drag, no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669, get's better with larger swell/chop
- HS850, ok for kiting efficient through the water but no glide at low speed for carving harbour chop, probably due to the width 669mm, and not as fast as the 800. I had to have lot's of forward momentum to keep this wing flying at my weight, which was strange as it is 10cm2 more than the 800.

Ok
gliding and carving chop on kite foil is very niche. Sounds like you must be on a peak4 or something? Gliding and carving swell is why I wing and for winging find the ha925 is amazing from 15knts with decent swell and can't wait for the ha1325 for light wind and small lumps as well as flat water

Oh I fly Ozone Chrono's, just park them and they drift but the foil is doing most of the heavy lifting so to speak allowing a slow speed and carving chop. Some guys say they experience the same of the art 999, and I can't really do it that well on the 925.

I find the 925 too wide for kiting (was thinking about chop shop) and don't use it, it becomes difficult to handle at high speed with a close period confused sea state.

Second session on the 1325 today in side-onshore, wide river, 14-16kts (was 25+ all day), bumps maybe knee high. First went on the 925 and 3M, then 4M, then switched to the 1325. Same exact mast position and 50 fuse/232 +.5. What a freaking blast. Riding the 925 was more punk rock and the 1325 was just some good jazz. Riding style changes to suit the wing and the vibe. Definitely opening up the downwind game for me. It actually felt less impact from the waves going upwind compared to the 1125 I think (never rode that wing with this fuse/tail config though).

Comparing speeds I was actually 1mph faster on the 1325 compared to the 925.
If the wind bumps are thigh high or less, this may be my new go-to

1st day on the HA1325.

Experienced prone foiler. Decent winger (jibing, duck jibing, haven't tacked on foil yet, riding waves). A big unit at 6'4"+ and 100+++ kgs. Winging a lighter wind day -- mid teens. Usually riding mid-aspect HS1850 at my size, in tiny Florida surf and light Florida winds.

Important note: No real previous experience with high aspect, and 1325 is probably the smallest area wing I have used.

First big takeaways...

Negatives.

* A fairly technical foil to ride. (or maybe that's my unfamiliarity with high aspect or the small size by my standards.)
* Did not like quick pitch changes upward even while at speed up on foil. It.would fall out of the sky on me, particularly on my bad side. (Once I figured out that issue on my bad side, and paid attention, it was less of an issue, but I still focused on it.)
* Needed real wind / board speed to get going. Since I was unfamiliar with it's take off, I almost needed enough wind to pull you in the air on a mid-aspect foil without pumping... PLUS some arm pumps and leg "scoots" (as opposed to full leg pumps).

Positives.

* Once you were up and sorted it was certainly quick and smooth. Relax and it was effortless on my good side, no drag or resistance.
* Tons of glide around jibes and such, as expected. But does require a different technique to exit jibes, as the wide flat foil acts different than a narrower one with curved tips.

Going forward I will look for slightly overpowered conditions to dial it in. I would give the same advice to others like me who might be familiar with the Armstrong HS line and trying out the HA line for the first time.

I was stoked to get on it. It turned out to be more technical than I expected. Stoked to ultimately get it dialed at some point