Select to expand quote

Haircut said...

i'll love my neighbours once they stop their cats from doing poos in my yard

Imagine how much more fish we would have if there was no pet cats...

yes

So, then, are my arguments against the existence of God to be considered the final word on the matter....?

uh, im pretty sure God will have the final word on the existence of God.
be ready.

Select to expand quote

wave knave said...

uh, im pretty sure God will have the final word on the existence of God.
be ready.

You're pretty sure, eh? How did you come by this information?

How can Mere man ,who doesn't even know whats on the bottom of the Ocean,where we came from,where the Universe ends,cure the common cold,let alone cancer or Aids,eliminate starvation and suffering, even begin to think they can decide whether God exists or not??

Wet Willy,
I think everyone here believes that wind exists. But you can't see it. You can only see the effect it has on our world, nature, and feel it, use its energy. Just because you can't see something doesnt mean it doesn't exist.
I see design everywhere I look in the natural world. And a sense of humor too.
I guess I'm a nerd.

Select to expand quote

Wet Willy said...

wave knave said...

uh, im pretty sure God will have the final word on the existence of God.
be ready.

You're pretty sure, eh? How did you come by this information?

its called faith,, and as Susie has said, just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

but good luck to you,
i still believe God'll have the last word though.

God is not a nerd
he is my boss.
Or is my boss some kind of nerdy god ??????????

user you are definatly godly

Select to expand quote

Susie said...

Wet Willy,
I think everyone here believes that wind exists. But you can't see it. You can only see the effect it has on our world, nature, and feel it, use its energy. Just because you can't see something doesnt mean it doesn't exist.
I see design everywhere I look in the natural world. And a sense of humor too.
I guess I'm a nerd.

By sense of humour do you mean like making people think they look cool wearing board shorts over their wetsuits!

Select to expand quote

russh said...

Susie said...

Wet Willy,
I think everyone here believes that wind exists. But you can't see it. You can only see the effect it has on our world, nature, and feel it, use its energy. Just because you can't see something doesnt mean it doesn't exist.
I see design everywhere I look in the natural world. And a sense of humor too.
I guess I'm a nerd.

By sense of humour do you mean like making people think they look cool wearing board shorts over their wetsuits!

Yeah thats funny but maybe only cos I dont understand it, please explain, and the noses on elephant seals and those funny monkeys with the long bulbous noses and the competitions in Italy on the size of their NOSES. Pretty funny. But off topic.

Back on the meds please Sooz

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said...

Back on the meds please Sooz

Que?

To go from "the world is pretty amazing" to "therefore there must be a God" is a pretty big leap! Wow!

Have you heard of a thing called logic? People have used it to argue for and against the existence of God...try applying it to your arguments and see where you end up. Step by step, no huge leaps, now...

Wave Knave is exactly right when he says it's called "faith". It something you believe, that's all. The first person who says they Know for sure God exists gets bopped on the head with a big foam hammer! *WHAP!* *WHAP!*

And Suzie, "Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist" is the lamest one yet!! Sorry!! This applies equally to the Easter Bunny, and every other mythical character ever described.

ALL I'M SAYING IS, if you've been believing in God all your life because nature is so complex that you can't think of another explanation -- you are way off because the one thing does not necessarily follow the other AT ALL. Perhaps you just believe because you WANT it to be true, with the nice neat human-centred explanation for everything, and heaven at th end of the road. But how lame is that? Fooling yourself?

Select to expand quote

Wet Willy said...

To go from "the world is pretty amazing" to "therefore there must be a God" is a pretty big leap! Wow!

Have you heard of a thing called logic? People have used it to argue for and against the existence of God...try applying it to your arguments and see where you end up. Step by step, no huge leaps, now...

Wave Knave is exactly right when he says it's called "faith". It something you believe, that's all. The first person who says they Know for sure God exists gets bopped on the head with a big foam hammer! *WHAP!* *WHAP!*

And Suzie, "Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist" is the lamest one yet!! Sorry!! This applies equally to the Easter Bunny, and every other mythical character ever described.

ALL I'M SAYING IS, if you've been believing in God all your life because nature is so complex that you can't think of another explanation -- you are way off because the one thing does not necessarily follow the other AT ALL. Perhaps you just believe because you WANT it to be true, with the nice neat human-centred explanation for everything, and heaven at th end of the road. But how lame is that? Fooling yourself?

Select to expand quote

Wet Willy said...

To go from "the world is pretty amazing" to "therefore there must be a God" is a pretty big leap! Wow!

Have you heard of a thing called logic? People have used it to argue for and against the existence of God...try applying it to your arguments and see where you end up. Step by step, no huge leaps, now...

Wave Knave is exactly right when he says it's called "faith". It something you believe, that's all. The first person who says they Know for sure God exists gets bopped on the head with a big foam hammer! *WHAP!* *WHAP!*

And Suzie, "Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist" is the lamest one yet!! Sorry!! This applies equally to the Easter Bunny, and every other mythical character ever described.

ALL I'M SAYING IS, if you've been believing in God all your life because nature is so complex that you can't think of another explanation -- you are way off because the one thing does not necessarily follow the other AT ALL. Perhaps you just believe because you WANT it to be true, with the nice neat human-centred explanation for everything, and heaven at th end of the road. But how lame is that? Fooling yourself?

Please explain the massive amount of scientific evidence against evolution. It takes a lot of faith for any true scientist to believe in evolution.

Greenroom, please feel free to dispute any of the points I have made. With reasons.

The toilet paper joke can be applied equally to anybody's post but it doesn't actually prove anything.

(BTW, this is my home ground we are playing on; 5 years at Uni getting a double major in Philosophy have to count for SOMETHING!!! So sorry if I wipe the floor with you, but you can do the same with me if we meet on the water...)

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said...

Please explain the massive amount of scientific evidence against evolution. It takes a lot of faith for any true scientist to believe in evolution.

Assuming that you are right about the evidence (have never seen any that made sense but havent looked for it) - that means it is on par with creation or the great spaghetti monster.

Personally I think people fall for the "something as complex as a bee cant evolve" line because we all have trouble comprehending the massive amount of time we are talking about for random mutation and natural selection to do its stuff.

Look how little time it took for people to turn wolves into Silky Terriers (And WHY WHY) and Irish Wolfhounds. If in the space of a few thousand (or 10s of thousands 10,000) years a bit of selective breeding can do that what can happen in a few 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 !!!

Also of course you can believe in evolution and creation - the big bang might have come from somewhere (although I dont think physics demands anything before time was created).

Select to expand quote

hardpole said...

Mark _australia said...

Please explain the massive amount of scientific evidence against evolution. It takes a lot of faith for any true scientist to believe in evolution.

<snip>..... massive amount of time we are talking about for random mutation and natural selection to do its stuff.

<snip> ... what can happen in a few 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 !!!

There is some evidence for a young universe ... I am not aware of all of it so I will not say it is compelling... but apart form all the other evolutionary theory there is a lot to suggest that the age of the earth etc is no more than 6,000yrs

Select to expand quote

Please explain the massive amount of scientific evidence against evolution. It takes a lot of faith for any true scientist to believe in evolution.

Just look at trends within human race if you do not believe in evolution (no seriously ). To view it in action you need alot of a particular species, but increasingly that is a rarity apart from people. Or you could look to microbial level to which virii most certainly evolve.

Besides do you religious fanatics ever actually sit down and think logically about what you are reading? Religion is something you are raised into, you are made to believe from a young age therefore you dont question. Seriously a guy builds a big wooden boat and collects 2 of every animal? If you lived your entire life without the knowledge of christianity before you would think that is as farcical as a fat guy in a red suit flying around in a cart pulled by reindeer with glowing noses. I'm sure it was once based with substance- a guy probably did build a sizeable boat, it was raining for quite some time so he started by putting his animals on boat then rescued other animals. That makes sense, (no need for god to be brought into it either) just the chinese whispers over time have reduced it to what it is today.

Alot has to be said for religion I have done minor study on a few... Islam, judaism, buddhism, shinto and hindu. Some are pretty damn convincing, and I guess they have to be. I do have a problem with christianity as it lacks substance even when compared to Islam or Judaism which are based on the same god.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said...

There is some evidence for a young universe ...

...there is a lot to suggest that the age of the earth etc is no more than 6,000yrs

Yes, Mark...

There is recorded history dating back at least 5,000 years (the Egyptians, Chinese etc)

...so the Age of Dinosaurs must've taken place in the thousand years before that, eh?

Maybe the Pharoahs hunted them to extinction??

Legends of dragons and things in the last 1000yrs?
Loch Ness monster a plesiosaur?
Aligators still exist as do mexican walking fish (won't try to spell the real name ) and other throwbacks to the age of the dinosaurs.
Not so hard to believe they were hunted to all but extinction as people were afraid of them and about 1000yrs ago people developed steel and effective weapons.
Anyway that is all off topic.

I am not a religo freak (thanks MKseven) all I said was I object to evolution as there are massive problems with it scientifically, there is a sh1tload of irrefutable proper scientific evidence against it. It is theory but is taught as fact and the science community is so indoctrinated into it that anyone who thinks about alternatives to evolution is labelled a retard or a religo freak.
Same as those who believed in germs or a round earth were outcast weirdos too I guess....

HEY GUYS, LOOK OVER THERE!
[Now whilst everyone is distracted I can make a quick exit from this thread]

Remember - He ain't heavy, he's my brother (Housemartins circa mid 80's)

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said...

Legends of dragons and things in the last 1000yrs?
Loch Ness monster a plesiosaur?
Aligators still exist as do mexican walking fish (won't try to spell the real name ) and other throwbacks to the age of the dinosaurs.
Not so hard to believe they were hunted to all but extinction as people were afraid of them and about 1000yrs ago people developed steel and effective weapons.
Anyway that is all off topic.

*ahem* I was just being sarcastic...um...I think the dinosaurs had disappeared well before man came on the scene. Possibly years before...

fanatic not freak, and said only due to a very polarised view you have on the subject. As I said earlier science does its best to explain the natural world with the information it has, it has evidence in support of this. For the theory to be accepted it is subject to a greater level of sceptism than you or I, hence the evidence against. Remember Science is a business and there are always people that are displaced by theories as they may have put their life's work into something they believe to be an alternative. On top of that you have professors who as part of their contract are required to publish a certain amount per year- some is good, alot is rubbish.

But what evidence does the bible give?

Select to expand quote

mkseven said...


...
But what evidence does the bible give?

Wait for it, wait for it...

Heres how i think about it , a few years ago i tried to work out what it was i believed in i figured yeah its possible there's a god and yeah its possible we evolved from single cell organisms

both arguments have there facts and flaws, it was at this point that i came to the conclusion that - it doesn't really matter how we got here the fact is were here.

were here and we need to do the best we can with what we have.

Religion and conflicting beliefs start wars just look at us , a bunch of people who love the wind and windsurfing and we are arguing about whether or not god exists etc.

Who cares what someone writes on the bottom of their boards after all it is there company and they can do what they want - mcdonalds and alike bombard us with there advertising tripe all day - im lovin it'. would you complain as much if someone wrote im lovin it' on the bottom of your board??

Now im off to try and revive the tool of my religion - Windsurfing.

CANT WAIT TILL THIS THREAD ENDS.......

We all have our beliefs. Mine follow that of current scientific thought. As a result, I find it extraordinary that in this day and age so many people pray to a God and believe in some form of Heaven and Hell (afterlife). To me it's like believing in fairies at the bottom of the garden. To think that there is an omnipresent being who 'created us' and is 'looking over us' is bizarre!! Haven't we moved on from the Dark Ages? To me it's just superstition. Also interesting that so many people ask the question "Does God exist"? Sort of provides it own answer, doesn't it!!

There was a good documentary on TV a few months ago that followed a legal case in Dover, USA as to whether Intelligent Design (Creationism) should be taught in schools alongside Evolution (www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html). Evolutionary experts provided a robust account as to how speciation occurs, while Intelligent Design advocates failed to put forward any sound scientific arguments for Creation. In the end the judge ruled against Intelligent Design as a form of science and denounced it as simply another form of religious teaching. It was noted that had Intelligent Design been allowed to be taught in schools it would open the flood gates to other pseudo-sciences such as Astrology.

After being presented with the science it was good to see many of the Intelligent Design advocates saying they simple never knew this compelling information on evolution existed. It was also good to see the Intelligent Design advocates (ie the Church) conceding that the Bible should not be taken literally, that the world wasn't actually created in 7 days and that it was obviously more than 6000 years old.

Too many atheists sit quiet while religion whittles away at humanities commonsense.

Not meant to be offensive to anyone, but that's my 2 cents worth .

Aus02,
What do you mean the world wasn't created in seven days. Funny thing you mention that by using the bible's timelines the earth is only approx 6000y.o. (and to think Noah, or was that Abraham or one of those other made up old testament geezers who lived for 900 of them as well).

I know someone 1st hand (and a religious zealot at that) who is very well read but refutes anyone's belief that the world is any older than 6000 y.o. It's like talking to a 2 year old - logic (i.e scientific fact) never enters the equation. You will never convince these people otherwise let alone plant a seed of doubt in their somewhat misguided beliefs.

In saying this though I still believe you should respect people's beliefs, regardless of how hairbrained, idiotic, fanatical, or downright weird they may be. It just sh1ts me when they try to impose those beliefs onto all and sundry - it's a bit like those telemarketers, you just hang up now even before they get to finish "Hello"

PS - wasn't I sneaking out of this thread

PPS - Maybe Laurie needs to employ a forum Chaplain (just like the one in MASH)