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jh2703 said..
If you can get hold of the Quantum 115 specs and up scale that I think you'd be on a winner. The 115 is by far the best big board I've ridden for aggressive DTL turns....And it wizzes around very efficiently, I often use it on the lake to go cruising.

The designer, well Simmer one generally is Ola Helenius, has given spec to me,and others on a forum.
i stop short of any contact info, Simmer boards perhaps.

Gestalt, of your 2/designs if push came to shove, the first, but only a narrow margin.

JH..... the OES is outta this world, tail shape is righteous, nose what's the point of it being cut off?
should I bugger mind up in construction, good to know

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forceten said..
Gestalt, of your 2/designs if push came to shove, the first, but only a narrow margin.

JH..... the OES is outta this world, tail shape is righteous, nose what's the point of it being cut off?
should I bugger mind up in construction, good to know

I did some more tweaks so I guess this is pretty much the version that gets cut. the outline is subtly different now with a bit more curve which pulled in the front mid and reduced the ofo dim. plus the rails got more refined.

My 2cents Gestalt the rails look quite thick, I understand thinning them would decrease the board volume, or compensating and retaining the volume would mean an even wider board with thinner rails.
I think more bottom tuck might help thin the rails a tad.
Have you thought of moving the mast base and all straps maybe 60mm to one side the bottom turn side, yes it would be assymetrical.
I've used that program and hats of to the people who can gauge the rocker line and relevant entry points from a diagram especially in relation to the mast base and footstraps. I can't.

Hey Gestalt, is the 32kg EPS the blue stuff ?
I recall Rider building a few boards out of this a few years back? Maybe he has some comments

I think it is hoop,
xps is the extruded stuff. xps-nd is 32kg/m3.
next step down is the eps-vh @ 28kg/m3.

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R1DER said..
My 2cents Gestalt the rails look quite thick, I understand thinning them would decrease the board volume, or compensating and retaining the volume would mean an even wider board with thinner rails.
I think more bottom tuck might help thin the rails a tad.
Have you thought of moving the mast base and all straps maybe 60mm to one side the bottom turn side, yes it would be assymetrical.
I've used that program and hats of to the people who can gauge the rocker line and relevant entry points from a diagram especially in relation to the mast base and footstraps. I can't.

yeah that's the thing. narrower rails mean more width or length or more deck roll so a thicker board. it's a tuff call. I like thin boards and i'm trying to get the board short as possible to reduce swing weight.

I did experiment with a step in the rail like the older starboard freestlye boards. I think Exocet may have used that idea too. it did thin the rail out but felt a little weird. I might revisit the idea I also looked at doing a rail like the phantom raceboard tail but that was hard to model.

the simmer quantums rails referenced earlier are very thick tho. simmer use deep concaves to thin out the contact point. similar to your thought about more tuck.

I might look a chines.

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R1DER said..
My 2cents Gestalt the rails look quite thick, I understand thinning them would decrease the board volume, or compensating and retaining the volume would mean an even wider board with thinner rails.
I think more bottom tuck might help thin the rails a tad.
Have you thought of moving the mast base and all straps maybe 60mm to one side the bottom turn side, yes it would be assymetrical.
I've used that program and hats of to the people who can gauge the rocker line and relevant entry points from a diagram especially in relation to the mast base and footstraps. I can't.

had a muck around with more tuck around the middle of the board and it helps..

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hoop said..
Hey Gestalt, is the 32kg EPS the blue stuff ?
I recall Rider building a few boards out of this a few years back? Maybe he has some comments

Hey Hoop yes I made a couple the ones wit a full pvc sandwhich were indestructable an 80 L came out 1.4kg heavier than 15kg EPS
I did some non pvc ones carbon and glass, yes took 1kg off the weight of pvc but deck dinged badly then deck delamed. I never experienced this outgassing I had read about and delam from that. my ble foam was 28kg then new Euro enviro laws meant thay had to change some chemicals and the weight went up to about 35kg didn't bother with that stuff.

Hey Gestalt I just kicked my shape 3d in the guts after not using it for a couple of years it still works I'm a bit rusty with it, can you email me your files so I can have a play with them and send them back to you with a few changes. I won't rip off your design I've got no use for a board that big. I'll also send you one of my big designs 113L 2250 x 66 from a few years ago that I never bothered with. pm me for me email if you want.

Just made my old one a tad bigger phone pic of my screen. I know some companies use more parallel type rails, for me I just like the feel of more curved rails.

hi Rider,
board looks great. is that your rocker line too? how do you find it. been thinking of flattening mine further. half way between your board above and my current version.

i'd like to get thinner rails but just don't want to give up on the width and the length. however, I took your advice and tweaked things further and did improve the rails slightly. then compared it back against some fanatic and simmer boards. the volume of the rails on the current version are inline with the simmer I have which has pretty boxy rails.

I am keen to keep the rails hard because i'm looking for as much speed through turns and on the face as possible. also, from what I understand, with a board with a really wide tail if the forward rails are too soft the tail can push the nose down.

last night I changed the rail edge of the middle of the board in the shape 3d so the rail has a tuck rather than a curve. then moved the apex of the concave toward the rail. that increased the bite of the rail. actually looks a little like your now but thicker.

couple of other things. shape3d allows me to copy slices. I copied the mid board slice and pasted it one slice back. then adjusted to smooth out the transition from mid to tail. that introduced a fraction more volume in front of the straps. benefit was to enable me to remove some thickness from the nose which reduced the forward volume and balanced the distribution more.. in short less weight up front.

guess I'm at the point of adjusting by millimeters.

I genuinely appreciate your offer to tweak the board for me. thing is the original file came form a long time friend. whilst I have literally changed every single parameter of that original board and the current shape bares no resemblance he has had some of his surfboards copied and sold under different names in the past so I just don't want to test the friendship. plus he's going to help me with board construction because we've done a few things like this before.

that said. really appreciate the input. this project is a bit of fun, trying to explore the possibilities and see if the idea has any merit.

so pretty much closed out the foam.

I had 2 options.
both options don't carry 28kg/m3 in stock but second contact has fast lead time of only 2 days.
also, the first contact glues all their blocks as they have size limits. first contact can get 32kg/m3 xps, second contact can't.

so decided to go with second contact, faster turn around, no glue and use 28kg/m3 eps-VH. before I order I need to double check foam size and spec with cnc guy so sending an email today.

I would do the EPS - good choice

The XPS is annoying to shape, and it does outgas and delam when it dings

I use that 28kg for kiteboards and with carbon/wood its solid, no heel dents. So will be fine for a non-sandwich windsurf board proto
I reckon you're onto it

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Gestalt said..
hi Rider,
board looks great. is that your rocker line too? how do you find it. been thinking of flattening mine further. half way between your board above and my current version.

i'd like to get thinner rails but just don't want to give up on the width and the length. however, I took your advice and tweaked things further and did improve the rails slightly. then compared it back against some fanatic and simmer boards. the volume of the rails on the current version are inline with the simmer I have which has pretty boxy rails.

I am keen to keep the rails hard because i'm looking for as much speed through turns and on the face as possible. also, from what I understand, with a board with a really wide tail if the forward rails are too soft the tail can push the nose down.

last night I changed the rail edge of the middle of the board in the shape 3d so the rail has a tuck rather than a curve. then moved the apex of the concave toward the rail. that increased the bite of the rail. actually looks a little like your now but thicker.

couple of other things. shape3d allows me to copy slices. I copied the mid board slice and pasted it one slice back. then adjusted to smooth out the transition from mid to tail. that introduced a fraction more volume in front of the straps. benefit was to enable me to remove some thickness from the nose which reduced the forward volume and balanced the distribution more.. in short less weight up front.

guess I'm at the point of adjusting by millimeters.

I genuinely appreciate your offer to tweak the board for me. thing is the original file came form a long time friend. whilst I have literally changed every single parameter of that original board and the current shape bares no resemblance he has had some of his surfboards copied and sold under different names in the past so I just don't want to test the friendship. plus he's going to help me with board construction because we've done a few things like this before.

that said. really appreciate the input. this project is a bit of fun, trying to explore the possibilities and see if the idea has any merit.

No worries, good luck with your design, Yes it's one of my rockers I did when I was 92kg it planes early and turns well with the fin combo I use and the bottom shape and rails. I don't like slog and ride I like to plane as much as possible.

thx Rider / Mark.

I spent the last few days exploring the rails further.
been looking at and measuring all of the boards in the garage to see how they were handled. the rails on the fanatics i have are really interesting. they are quite square and very similar to hard rails on high performance surfboards. I notice goya and quatro rails (looking online) are also squarish. those boards have a flattish curve at the apex of the rail, fanatic especially.

the rest of my boards are more traditional with a definite apex and tuck with the simmer being especially thick through the mid section.

great thing about designing boards in software is the ability to see how the volume distribution changes every time you move a point a few millimeters. down side is you start agonising about things that don't make a big difference.

it's super handy to be able to ghost the original board and see how the tweaks have effected the volume distribution, rail curve etc so I can see if changes so far have made functional steps forward.

the conversation has definitely pushed me to improve things. current iteration just needs to be built and surfed.

Gestalt,with out much fuss, could you do one of those diagram things, if I gave you a few detail?
like length , max width , projected liters .

I have no idea what you do, and while I could find a 13yo, no visitors are permitted.covid19.

yeah no worries.

pm me the details. i'll flick it back then new can get another thread going. it's the duldrums here. no wind for weeks.

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Gestalt said..
yeah no worries.

. it's the duldrums here. no wind for weeks.

NOOOOO !! Gesty dont say that...

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olskool said..

Gestalt said..
yeah no worries.

. it's the duldrums here. no wind for weeks.

NOOOOO !! Gesty dont say that...

it's true mate. im busting out the LT. this time of year is for mountain biking and longboards. there's zero swell too. goldcoast is like a lake.

Great thread Gestalt and interested to see board and how it performs for early planning and maneuverability
Agree mountain biking great light wind and no surf alternative

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forceten said..
Gestalt,with out much fuss, could you do one of those diagram things, if I gave you a few detail?
like length , max width , projected liters .

I have no idea what you do, and while I could find a 13yo, no visitors are permitted.covid19.

Its a free program very easy to use, just download it. you can even download some free boards others have designed you can then open them up change the dimensions and see what volumes you get, Its easy its free its fun.

bit of an update before things go quiet till I get the blank machined.

So,
funny thing the Covid virus. Closing the border has split some parts of the southern gold coast. The factory I was intending to use is on the south tweed side of the border and means I need to apply for a border pass to get there.

I'm still waiting on final confirmation from the cnc guy so with the border issues I've contacted two other guys on my side of the border. got one price today will have the other on monday.

following that, the plan is to take the cut blank to my shaper friend for him to install the boxes. probably see if I can help him do it.
A few delays but things are still moving forward.

in the meantime I've tweaked the board further. main thing being adding a chine to the rails. the board is based on a V with a single into double concave and bevelled entry rails.

something I was hoping to do with the board is to use a rear strap that can be flattened when stood on. so I can surf the board without using the rear strap or use it if needed.

has anyone tried this before? kite hook straps don't seem to appeal.

"So,
funny thing the Covid virus. Closing the border has split some parts of the southern gold coast. The factory I was intending to use is on the south tweed side of the border and means I need to apply for a border pass to get there."

Only been to Gold Coast once but agree its weird that its not just all Queensland and have the boundary in the water!

Not sure how those kite hook straps would work as your DTL bottom turn force is across the board but if you want more feel what about using sup Eva diamond grip from your back strap to the mast track instead of deck grip and foot pads. From surf supping I ended up putting on my surfboard instead of wax.

With such a wide tail what about extra inserts across the board to offset your back strap closer to the leeward rail?
Final suggestion to recess the mast track 50mm lower in the board, we did this on a 14" speed board years ago and now Starboard do this on some of their thicker boards.

Keep up the awesome work

Maybe an extra wide raceboard beating strap?

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Grantmac said..
Maybe an extra wide raceboard beating strap?

I found a strap slingshot do for their foil surfers. It seems softer than the windsurfing version. I saw a video online of a guy on a foil with his foot on top of the strap. I haven't seen one In the flesh but might do the job.

the raceboard strap idea is good to. maybe an old seatbelt cut to length?

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515 said..
"So,
funny thing the Covid virus. Closing the border has split some parts of the southern gold coast. The factory I was intending to use is on the south tweed side of the border and means I need to apply for a border pass to get there."

Only been to Gold Coast once but agree its weird that its not just all Queensland and have the boundary in the water!

Not sure how those kite hook straps would work as your DTL bottom turn force is across the board but if you want more feel what about using sup Eva diamond grip from your back strap to the mast track instead of deck grip and foot pads. From surf supping I ended up putting on my surfboard instead of wax.

With such a wide tail what about extra inserts across the board to offset your back strap closer to the leeward rail?
Final suggestion to recess the mast track 50mm lower in the board, we did this on a 14" speed board years ago and now Starboard do this on some of their thicker boards.

Keep up the awesome work

sup grip is the go. I've got a bunch of it here to use it so I don't have to buy pads. it's thin but for this board is more than good enough.

problem with offset straps is they aren't flexible. might put the backfoot in the right spot for the bottom turn but then be wrong for the top turn. i keep wondering if i even need one. i'm not that radical lol.

I has looking to use Bio Epoxy.
has anyone had any experience with change climate bio-epoxy

Maybe wide seatbelt over EVA?