what i find hard and or frustrating is when guys come off the water with the latest gear from 69-95 litres and unless its blowing 20+ knots production wave boards are way out of my reach, me being solid bloke (without a beer gut) i never really get to try gear out, even wave sails designed for 85ish kg blokes are a little fragile sometimes, but hey on the bright side handy in a brawl [}:)][}:)][}:)]

Just an update:

We've had a close to 100kg guy sailing the Quantum 85 in various conditions here in Sweden for a while and he's very happy on it. So our intention of making this board very efficient for its volume is really playing out as we hoped.

So big guys, when you get a chance, try it out.

But we're also working on some protos for big (93-95) liter versions of both the Fly and the Quantum. Can't say when they will be ready for production though but we're working on it.

Interesting topic about boards for heavier sailors. Ola, I don't agree with you about sailors and board volume based on my local sailing conditions. I'm 87 kg, 6'2 and my local wavesailing spots are all plagued by light winds so in my opinion big wave boards are essential even for guys weighing less than 100 kg.

One spot is cross off with light winds (usually < 20 mph) with a big wind shadow on the inside. The other is cross-on conditions best on clearing winds from passing storm fronts. Even then winds seldom get really strong, usually in the 20 mph range. For a long time I used a 92 L Evo (62 cm wide) and spent a lot of time swimming, but the addition of an Exocet Exo-wave 105 (64 cm wide) a few years back improved my sailing time greatly.

I recently picked up a 2nd hand Quattro custom quad 105 L (59 cm wide and a really narrow tail). Unsurprisingly it feels really small on a wave and totally hides it's volume. Not as competent as the Exo-wave at pumping onto a wave in really light winds, but so much fun with a 6.0 and 18 mph (15 knots). If the Quattro was maybe 110 L I might consider retiring the 105 L Exo-wave, but considering the difference in early plaining the Exo-wave still has a place in my quiver.

Exo Wave 105 and 6.2

Exo Wave 105 and 6.1

Another anecdote of a big wave boards working well for me. On a trip to San Carlos last year I used an RRD twin 99 L (225 x 62 cm) initially with a 6.0 and then with a 5.2 sail and really enjoyed it even when I could have switched to an 85 L board. The ease of use in stronger winds was in my opinion due to smooth water / wave face from the cross off wind, and might not have been as comfortable in choppier conditions.

Philn, your conditions and story read similar to mine, I even went through the Evo 92 too. I'm 85kg, 1.82m tall. My main sail sizes used at 5.2 - 6.3, with 5.8 being my "bread-n-butter" sail and our best waves are in our onshore conditions. I would like to upgrade my Exo Wave 105, but have been very reluctant to replace with these 92-93L twins or quads, even the ones that are over 59cm in width. I'm just unsure about the float and how early they will plane.

Wonder if the Simmer FSW 95 or 105 would be a decent replacement? In a perfect world I'd like to split the difference and have a 100L board, as I'd love just to only carry one board around. Like you, I can handle the bigger board, and it's comfortable, so I'm hesitant to go in and switch down to my 85L Exo Wave. But then again I have a love/hate relationship with that particular board so that may play into the equation. Plus it seems sometimes the conditions fall between the 2 board sizes, so I'll lean to the larger size.

2012 should have more choice. In addition to Ola's 105, Goya will have a 104 quad. I have also heard RRD will have a 100 L quad, and yesterday I heard rumours of Tabou bringing out a > 100 L multi fin wave board.

I am very pleased to read that others agree the EVO 92 was a very disappointing board.

At the time local advocates had me buying numerous fins and trying various step ups when basically the concept didn't work as a wave board for heavier sailors.

I have a classic down the line wave board and a FSW and at 90ish kilos welcome the serious attention from the board designers to allow me access to bigger wave boards.

Select to expand quote

Northern Monkey said...

I am very pleased to read that others agree the EVO 92 was a very disappointing board.

I used to have a 100 Evo XL. By todays standards it's a disappointing board. Thing is though at the time it was the only 100 L wave board on the market.

Today a 99 JP Thruster, RRD 100 Quad will walk all over it... but I guess there are 5 years between these boards.

Select to expand quote

Northern Monkey said...

I am very pleased to read that others agree the EVO 92 was a very disappointing board.

The Evo 92 is really slow to plane. I found it best with a 5.3, and really liked it in those conditions. It had a really narrow wind range. 6.2 was a bit on the big side and 4.7 was too small for it.

Its even slower to plane now as my kids use it to throw rocks at in our garden.

At least i getting my dollars worth now.

Simmer Flywave, Quantum and FSW will be available in Australia early Sept. - slightly later than anticipated. Selected sizes will be available to demo at Gnaraloo around mid Sept. and in Geraldton after that. Reviews and pics will be posted ASAP.

Theres an article in this weeks boardseekermag.com about the three board x 3 volume range.

Select to expand quote

CB1 said...

Philn, your conditions and story read similar to mine, I even went through the Evo 92 too. I'm 85kg, 1.82m tall. My main sail sizes used at 5.2 - 6.3, with 5.8 being my "bread-n-butter" sail and our best waves are in our onshore conditions. I would like to upgrade my Exo Wave 105, but have been very reluctant to replace with these 92-93L twins or quads, even the ones that are over 59cm in width. I'm just unsure about the float and how early they will plane.

Wonder if the Simmer FSW 95 or 105 would be a decent replacement? In a perfect world I'd like to split the difference and have a 100L board, as I'd love just to only carry one board around. Like you, I can handle the bigger board, and it's comfortable, so I'm hesitant to go in and switch down to my 85L Exo Wave. But then again I have a love/hate relationship with that particular board so that may play into the equation. Plus it seems sometimes the conditions fall between the 2 board sizes, so I'll lean to the larger size.

It's very hard to gauge a boards "size feel" by volume these days. Even width has become less good of a measure. There are just so many different ways of packing volume in the board and to distribute area at a given width. Regarding the EV0 92, it had heaps of rocker and was a rather particular design. The EVO 90 xtv was better, and so was the 100, but as you say. Things have happened since then.

I can't say for sure if the Simmer Style fsws will do the job you ask. We are very happy with them and tested them in lots of conditions. Customer feedback is starting to come in too. But it will still take a while until we have the broader feedback spectrum necessary to allow me to say more exactly what it will do and what it will not. I know they handle good clean, pretty serious waves well though. There is this slight bit of caution needed in the top turn exit since we are after all talking about a board with a straighter rocker, but when you get to know the board you can charge both big waves with long solid carves and mid size ones (i.e. 2-3m faces) with some pretty vertical hacks. We also now these boards are very early planing and particularly in single fin mode very fast. And for the tinker, there is a huge amount of tuning possible by just moving and possible changing the rear fin in the tri fin setup.

What we still don't know is how they will carry weight. We know that both the Quantum and Fly quads carry big sailor exceptionally well for they size. They don't need to be upsized like some other multi fin boards to work. But maybe, the FSW can be chosen a little bit more on the big side (i.e. opposite to many other brands). The fsw has the softest ride in the Simmer range and you can quite easy take a big Simmer few into windy conditions. And even rather small sailors (75kg) find the fsw95 to turn very well in tri fin mode. All this indicates to me that the 105 FSW might be the way to go if you're a big guy and want something for light wind wave sailing + good blasting too.

Ola, any decision if there will be a larger size Quantum?

Using as an example, the Quantum 85 vs the FSW 85, which board would be best for onshore conditions?

Thanks!

Select to expand quote

CB1 said...

Ola, any decision if there will be a larger size Quantum?

Yes. And the decision is yes. But the process has been a bit delayed. I'm just now finishing the last details of the file which I hope to send to the builder early next week. Then it will depend on how this proto works. If we need to make more protos we will and then it will take more time.

Select to expand quote

CB1 said...
Using as an example, the Quantum 85 vs the FSW 85, which board would be best for onshore conditions?

Thanks!

The Quantum is a turnier board, slightly higher ride. Still very early planing. A more exciting tip of ride than the FSW. ANd as you know, in the end rocker is hard to beat. The Quantum will come around in a smoother and easier way in the turn and offers an excellent combo of a snappy grippy turn and an ability to keep drive in onshore frontside riding when you sometimes need to draw your turns out a bit.

The FSW is faster, but feels calmer. It's very forgiving toward different techniques when it comes to early planing (in try fin mode). I wouldn't go as far as calling it dull in this respect (it's far nicer than some other few) but is just goes without really giving you much feedback about speed. ONce turning it handles speed well and stays grippy and secure. It can definitely be pushed into tighter turning too. BUt compared to the Quantum it need to be driven more actively through the carve when you want to be real aggressive.

I'd say the few more easily carry bigger sails. The Q85 seems to top out somewhere between 5.6 and 5.9. Maybe 5.9 is good with some bigger fins. The has a more natural of keeping to provide lift also when loaded with more sail.

A final remark is that the tri fin few needs a bit more careful fine tuning (moving the rear fin) to trim it for different conditions. The Quantum is more "set it and forget it" (although you of course _can_ tune it with different fin too).

Overall I think that if we are talking wave sailing only, the Quantum will probably feel better for most. But if more B&J style sailing is thrown in, the few might have an edge. The few is also even better when sailing through chop in high wind conditions.

Rumors have it that some Simmer production boards have now been seen ripping in WA. If you get to try one out, let me hear your thoughts

Just came back from a couple of weeks testing the Flywave 75, Quantum 85 and FSW 95. This review concerns the FSW 95 with posts on the other boards to follow. Disclaimer - WA Simmer stockist.
First up I hail from Geraldton, am 85kg with 30yrs sailing experience. I have done most of my sailing on 75 L boards and less so I was pretty sceptical when I jumped on the FSW 95 to head out at Tombies in overhead waves and less than 20knts of wind. I thought the board would feel big, bouncy and slow (like the other 90L plus boards I had ridden). I was stoked to find the total opposite. Planing out the board felt perfectly balanced and super smooth through the chop thanks to the V throughout the bottom. Gybing out the back the board easily got up on its rail and carved quickly and held it's speed through the turn. I was couldn't believe how reactive the board felt for it's larger volume. Wave riding was the same deal. Loose off the bottom with the Tri fin setup providing plenty of speed and drive. The board went vertical similar to a board of much less volume and snapped off the top equally well with total control. I found that I could even wack a wave 360! As I got used to the board and loaded it up out of the lip controlled slides were possible. Smacking the lip for airs the board projected well out of the lip with nice soft landings. I was totally amped and couldn't believe I had been persevering with smaller volume boards in marginal conditions for so long. This board would definately suit a heavier sailor who wants to rip waves or alternatively be a smaller sailors light wind shredding machine.

Thanks for the review and pictures! The 95 FSW sounds great.

Now just have to figure out who is going to distribute/sell them in the US mainland.

Nice review. Makes me feel a bit like a proud father when I see the board being ripped on like that.

In many ways the Simmer FSW may look quite similar to many other fsws, but it is in fact constructed from the ground up to be what it is, which includes a rather unusual rocker fx. We're getting good feedback even on the 105 and I'm becoming less and less hesitant to recommend it as a pure wave board.

We're probably gonna makes one or two smaller boards in this range too. Either a 75 or a combo of 72 + 79 or something like that. Possible five box options since we know from the proto stage that the fsw shape works excellent as a twin too (for and even looser ride and for great performance at windy small wave places like Pozo). The boxes we use are almost weightless, so there is not really weight penalty if we go that route.

As promised here is some feedback on the Quantum 85.

After finding that the FSW95 performed as a board with lower volume I was amping to try the Quantum 85 when the wind picked up. Conditions were waist to head high waves and 18-22knts side shore winds. With my weight of 85 kg I found the board planed early and pointed high with it's relatively straight rocker and wider outline and there was no sign of drag from the quad fin set up. As with the FSW it gybed smoothly through the chop out the back with the subtle concave giving it a lively feel. Waveriding the Quantum was fast and snappy through turns. I felt I could push as hard as I liked and it responded with plenty of grip and drive off the bottom and a nice controlled looseness off the top. Vertical waveriding was a breeze. For a board as mobile as this I was impressed with this aspect and was looking forward to trying it out in more radical conditions.

The next day the swell jacked and the wind picked up to 25knts. Full on Tombies bubble action! For a board that is hyped as more of a cross on, wind swell (real world wave) board the Quantum handled the powerful, hollow, sucking ledges of the wave with ease, even when slightly overpowered. Ideally I could have come in and changed over to the Flywave but I was having too much fun on the Quantum.

In conclusion the Quantum 85 is an early planing, fast, loose board that is very easy to ride yet with enough pedigree to perform in more powerful/radical conditions.
Available for demo from G-Spot Geraldton.

Hi there the Simmer boards are here too. I am waiting to have my first try on the 85 fsw and the quad 75. I wonder how heavy they are?

Select to expand quote

yxz3960 said...

Hi there the Simmer boards are here too. I am waiting to have my first try on the 85 fsw and the quad 75. I wonder how heavy they are?

We do not yet have enough data from production to present official weights. We are very happy with our construction (the layup) but continually refining the production process both regarding finish and other details. This means weights are going down a bit "as we speak" and variation is also getting smaller and smaller.


But to get a hunch, looking at october + november production, mean weights of the Fly 75 is around 6.2 kilos and the FSW 85 is around 6.6.

Hi Ola,

which company imported the simmer boards for germany ?

thanks in advance

uwe

Select to expand quote

uweh said...

Hi Ola,

which company imported the simmer boards for germany ?

thanks in advance

uwe

Thought about looking at the Simmer Style web site or doing a google search?

But in any case here it goes:

Tekkno Trading Project GmbH
Sorbenstrasse 39, Haus A, Hamburg, 20537, Germany
email: ralf@tt-project.com
phone: +49-40-557 635 10

Ok, read this thread and many others on large wave boards. Been looking for one myself for some time. I did have the RRD Twin 99 but found it difficult to sail. The reality is that (speaking from a Eurpean perspective) if there is wind even if you weigh 100kg you want a 90l board or less. I am 95kg and love my 82L twin but it has to be windy.

The weight issue imo is subtle but important. I found several years ago that when competing in proper wave locations with light winds I could barely sail, I have been sailing for 30 years and I felt like a beginner. Other guys were ripping it up and even jumping on the way out. The reality was I was 95kg on an 82l board whilst these guys were 75kg on 94L boards giving me 13l negative float and them nearly 20ls float. Since this revelation I have been on the hunt for a decent high volume wave board, this lead me to try FSWs which just dont cut it although they provide the volume.

I would say you need 15l min float to enjoy. The market is small for Europe as the waves and wind normally arrive at the same time. it is rare to find DTL and light wind except say in Scotland.

Nonetheless good to have in the quiver. Now we have Goyas 104 cant wait to try it.

Select to expand quote

hencloud said...

...Since this revelation I have been on the hunt for a decent high volume wave board, this lead me to try FSWs which just dont cut it although they provide the volume.

I would say you need 15l min float to enjoy. The market is small for Europe as the waves and wind normally arrive at the same time. it is rare to find DTL and light wind except say in Scotland.

Nonetheless good to have in the quiver. Now we have Goyas 104 cant wait to try it.

I think you shouldn't leave the Simmer FSW 105 off your list. It's far more competent as a pure wave board than a regular fsw. In fact, in lighter conditions when the waves are not super drivey it even has some advantages over a big regular wave board since it has an amazing way of keeping the drive, but still don't get bouncy and stiff like an fsw. Drop me a line at ola.h_____at_____ simmerstyle.com and I can send you some reviews from customers who uses it as a pure wave board.

Perhaps I mentioned it before, but when I designed a Jaws board for Kai Katchadourien, we used the FW 85 as the starting point because it sets such a stable rail in bigger waves relative its width and speed. We're also working on some smaller productions versions of the FW design with a tad more rocker that are even further into real wave board territory. At first a 78, perhaps later a smaller one. I would haved loved it in light Kanaha/Maui sailing today, but the proto is getting sanded and striped up, so I have to wait a few days.

No it is in the melting pot as still have to make a decision. I have found however that when I compromise it always back fires. I understand what you are saying though about the FsW and will give it serious consideration. Thanks.