clearly you either have great technique, or you live where the wind blows constantly.

i don't know any heavy weights that would consider a board 15lt less than their body weight a big board.

anyways suggesting a 94lt board for a 100+ kg sailor to use as their big board is bull****. there i'm calling it.

Is it not 10% more than your kgs to cover weight of rig etc? This works for me - I'm 88kgs, and a 92ltr sinks. My light wind board is an Exocet Exo-Wave 105ltr (63cm) which is an excellent board and is often overlooked.

More importantly, are there any pictures of the boards?

^ yep crash, that's the same basic way i work it out.

at 107kg my big wave board is 115lt, my big freestyle wave is 125lt and 95lt is my 20kn+ wave board.

here is a vid of the simmer boards. they certainly look fantastic on the wave.

Just going to put it out there. If you're >100kg and aren't 6ft8 it's probably time to stop smashing the beers and chips if you want to get the most out of your windsurfing...just saying

I'm not 100kg so I can't really relate to the whole big board thing but I think the whole trend of riding bigger boards is certainly true. I'm 70-72kg and ride an 86L Fanatic quad as my all rounder. I've got a 75L RRD wave cult that is a true 'gun' down the line shape and these days i'll pick the quad every day out of the week because it planes earlier, turns shaper and it's a hell of a lot easier to slog out through white water. Sure, it doesn't have that pure top end speed but for the breaks I sail that's a small trade off and as Reflex stated before, the fact the quad is 15cm shorter makes it just as easy to handle when it gets wild.

Unfortunately I don't think you'll really ever see 115-120L wave boards as it's a small market.

i think market wise it's more a case of the chicken or the egg.

in the past heavy sailors have always gravitated to slalom sailing because there wasn't bigger wave orientated kit available to suit their weight. which really took all of the fun out of going into the surf. i guess it will take some time for the market to catch up (if at all) if the manufacturers start providing large wave boards. not only do the big guys have to buy big wave boards but they also need to buy wave rigs to go with it after either ditching their slalom gear or just dubbling up.

the kona boards have provided the bridge for the heavy guys. if only more kona gear were readily available.

the important thing is that the r&d is done by big sailors and not 85kg sailors. that makes a huge difference.

anyways, 115lt wave boards are more than possible. i've ridden a few even up to 120lt. it;s a pity there isn't more of a surfers mentaility, it's not about board size but gear versus rider/conditions.

as for going on a diet, i guess everyone can go on a diet, but at the end of the day some people are built to play rugby and other are built to ride horses.

on the getting the most out of windsurfing. that's relative. give a big guy a big board and he'll get just as much as a fly weight. a 120+kg mate rides his longboard in light winds, i ride my 125lt freestyle and our 70kg mate rides his kona, we all have a blast no mater how light the wind or what the rider size.

my next board being sorted at the moment is a 9'8"x30or32" fish tail with flyers and widow maker setup.

Select to expand quote

CJW said...

Just going to put it out there. If you're >100kg and aren't 6ft8 it's probably time to stop smashing the beers and chips if you want to get the most out of your windsurfing...just saying

I'm not 100kg so I can't really relate to the whole big board thing but I think the whole trend of riding bigger boards is certainly true. I'm 70-72kg and ride an 86L Fanatic quad as my all rounder. I've got a 75L RRD wave cult that is a true 'gun' down the line shape and these days i'll pick the quad every day out of the week because it planes earlier, turns shaper and it's a hell of a lot easier to slog out through white water. Sure, it doesn't have that pure top end speed but for the breaks I sail that's a small trade off and as Reflex stated before, the fact the quad is 15cm shorter makes it just as easy to handle when it gets wild.

Unfortunately I don't think you'll really ever see 115-120L wave boards as it's a small market.

I am actually 6'7 & 105kgs. Former state basketball player & triathlete so fitter than the average bear and have struggled to find a wave board, 1 that is big enough, 2 that works.

The old thing about becoming a slalom sailer if you are heavy is crap as not all bigger guys like going fast.
Have given the plug many times but there are companies starting to realise the small market for big wave boards which is encouraging.
Simmer look to be starting on a good trend, but you can also look to the local market too.

Mark Stone boards cater for the bigger guy. King of the Point is definately in the 100kgs plus area and rips on his Stone board which is over 100 litres. Anyone witnessing Corey shred double mast Margies in no wind will know they work too.

I ride OES boards and recently took delivery of a 105 quad which is awesome. They also make 120 litre quads and the rest of the range is huge.

Im sure Nude & Rider boards could also cater for the larger individual and make it work.

Nice to see it can be done, production manufacturers are starting to listen and board shapes and technology allow large wave boards to be a reality.

Lightweights lookout

Hi Folks,

I think much of this comes down to personal preference and the consistency of the wind where you sail. I'm 93 kg and do most of my sailing on the west coast on my 84l Mistral Twinzer. I have the 92l board as well, and am happily to jump on this at Margs when the wind is really light, but mostly I'm sailing the smaller board because it feels more direct in the wave, particularly on the cutback, when the big one can feel a little corky. It's a personal preference thing because I don't like being overpowered on the wave at all. For example, usually Corey is sailing one size larger than me, mostly on his floaty light winder (ca. 105l), but as others have pointed out-it works for him. In the end it's all about what you enjoy the most...

Cheers, Jens

All this to do over big boards. This is what happens when we are spoiled for choice. Come on, stop standing on the beach yakking and get out on the water. If there isn't enough wind, do something else like SUP. If there is too much wind, get out & test yourself. I'd put money on those making the most noise in the forums are those talking on the sidelines when the wind is up!

so what size would be a good first wave board for someone who reasonably advanced but new to waves.

I'm 90kg

I've got a 99L freestyle starboard flare but i don't think i'd like to take that out in waves as it has no V whatsover and is quite bumpy over the chop.

A wave board around 90L or so is what i'm thinking at the moment. For conditions up to about 25knots.

kode 94

Select to expand quote

Reflex Films said...




be careful what you deem as " widths too high for surf " - 1 decade ago anything over 54 cm was deemed outrageous - look at the standard board widths now.. 58 is a very common size - and actually a good all round width - the 78 kg guy that won the nats recently rides a 58 cm board as his all rounder - and spends alot of time on a 60 cm wide board - that has insane wave performance -

Damn, 60cm wide, ....are we talking about a 60cm flattish rockered single fin or a multi finned banana?

My feeling is that most modern waveboards have more range than some riders realise. Getting the right set up (fin/rig combination) can make a big difference but it can take a lot of time on the water to unlock that performance. Beyond that there always seems to be a trade off with speed/acceleration and turning/redirection/grip though this seems more complex and hard to define.....those elements of personal style and skill have such a big influence.....it seems to me that there is still a fair bit of evolution happening. Enough evolution to keep those shaper gurus busy for a few years yet.

One comment RE board width and wave riding ability - I have a 72cm wide SUP which rips it up in the waves.

Select to expand quote

Reflex Films said...
there was an evo 100 available for a while - super loose and guess what ? no one bought them.

Not sure what Evo 100 you tried but the one I owned was neither super loose nor really fast. The fin that came with the board was the single worst fin I have ever used... it even eclipsed the junk they used to ship with the JP FSW.

Yes the board turned ok on a wave but it was ultimately slow and hard to get on the plane.

Can't comment on the Kode as I haven't tried or let alone owned one.

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said...
anyways suggesting a 94lt board for a 100+ kg sailor to use as their big board is bull****. there i'm calling it.

Yeah, I want to see how someone would fare with that sort of board volume to weight ration at a spot like Gnaraloo late in the day when the wind is near none existent on the inside.

Maybe at a place like Corros and with "light wind" meaning 20 knts it would work.

Select to expand quote

wespyyl said...
I've got a 99L freestyle starboard flare but i don't think i'd like to take that out in waves as it has no V whatsover and is quite bumpy over the chop.

Don't listen to anyone... take the 99 Freestyle and give it ago... when you start out wave sailing you want to get a feeling for what the waves are doing first. Worry about getting a dedicated waveboard later.

Unless ofcourse you are swimming in cash... then just go and plonk down $2K or more on a new board.

Select to expand quote

Crash Landing said...

One comment RE board width and wave riding ability - I have a 72cm wide SUP which rips it up in the waves.

I second that... I have been using a 10.5 Fanatic during summer in head high surf when the wind was 5 knts. . It's a lot of fun! Especially since you won't have to share any waves with other people since they'll be sitting on the beach watching you.

Its more a point of bigger boards that work in good waves (relex.. big evo's didnt mate).. There are alot of boards that work in your average conditions but when its cranking..., not so many production boards working well then..

Again, lots of good discussion o big boys wave boards here. Keep it coming. I'm a flyweight myself so opinions heavyweights are worth a lot - all of them.

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said...
although 100 litres is considered a big board by most, for a heavy weight. ie 100kg sailor it's not. lets be honest in australia a heavy weight is looking for a board for 12-22knots rigged with a 5.8m sail and maybe 6.4m for 12knots.

107-115lt is more where volume should be.

Probably, but it's questionable if it makes sense to make a production board like that, ie if Simmer should fx extend the FLy and Quantum lineups with not only two 95liter boards but also with two 105 and two 115. The cost of the protos and the molds relative the number of boards we can hope to sell is one thing, but then there is the complexity of the whole range not to mention the most important thing: testing. But one option we're seriously looking into is the option to also make custom boards in the same factory where we make our production boards. But that's not for now...

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said...
it's not just a case of scaling up a 95lt board by making it a little thicker or going to 68cm wide to achieve a bigger volume board which is what most manufacturers appear to do.

as soon as i see a large volume, thicker boards with a pin tail marketted as a heavy weights board i know it's not. unfortunately, pin tails suck for heavy guys in my experience. there is just not enough volume. the tail needs to be either square tailed or swallow in my mind to get the best performance, and that width needs a multi fin setup to work best in surf.

unfortunately with that you get a speed dissadvantage. personally i'll take the small lose of speed any day if it means a little more volume in the tail.

I think this heavy vs light weight issue is very interesting. There's some physics issues lurking in here... It really seems that it is harder for a heavyweight to get all round boards that cover a wide spectrum. I mean, for me at 70 kilos, I could easily get by on one board for anything from big maui waves in almost no winds to 50 knots days on Sweden and every combination in between (a FLy 75 fx). How many 100kg guys can claim the same thing? I don't think it is an issue of skill (though a better sailor will always be able to get more range out of the same board).

But there are some psychological issues deeply buried in here too. Humans tend to practice what we are already good at. Obviously, lighter sailors have an easier time in lighter winds and hence tend to push their light wind sailing more right from the early days. Then there is the next thing. Small sailors early on get used to push around big boards simply because they are there to try. I think that's a skill too which help them perform in light wind. Who says a 100kg sailor actually have a harder time turning a 68cm boards than a 70kg sailor have turning a 58cm board? Maybe it's just that the light guys have gotten used (and learned) to work harder to achieve the turns?

(And you can turn the whole argument around and claim small sailors don't practice enough on even smaller boards...).

Personally, I've had periods when I only sailed super small boards which taught me a lot about early planing and about finding and using the energy of the wave. And I've had periods where I sailed a lot on (for me) very large boards which taught me a lot about getting power onto the rail but also to not fight the board when doing so but instead sort of use the flow of the turns to get the board in the exactly right position before adding the little power my 70 kilos could produce.

BTW, do you remember the Starboard Aero? I think particularly the small one was an interesting board (no reincarnated as the Solo). Some heavy weight friend of mine still swear by it for light wind wave sailing.

Dug through the bowels of the Simmer Site and found a Distributer preview pdf on the 2012 boards..................a little more info and a look at what these puppies MAY look like shape and graphic wise...check it out:

http://www.simmerstyle.com/2012Board_Preview.pdf



FSW looks like a nice shape with plenty of width between the straps, the 105 MAY be a winner for the big fellas as a wave board, given that Ola has repeatedly said in interviews that the Simmer FSW is at the "wave" end of it's peers in the FSW genre. I would love a 105L one as my light wind ocean blaster, and for slogging around catching waves when the wind is real light, knowing I can float home if the wind drops off, and uphaul too. Would love a 93L Quantum if it gets built as my allround wave board (am 92kg).


Ola, please build the 93L Quantum .........

Build it, and it will SELL!

Thanks for sharing. I think this illustrates the importances of local shops though. While the shapes look interesting I would not plonk down $2000+ for a board without either test riding it first or at the ver least read a couple of different magazine reviews.

I have been burned too many times in the past.

Anyone know how these board would be sold in oz?

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

Thanks for sharing. I think this illustrates the importances of local shops though. While the shapes look interesting I would not plonk down $2000+ for a board without either test riding it first or at the ver least read a couple of different magazine reviews.

I have been burned too many times in the past.

Anyone know how these board would be sold in oz?

Hi Stegs, Johan Lindstrom, the marketing fellow for Simmer, has informed me that the boards will be hitting retail shops in Oz in May. Tim Carr at G.Spot Extreme in Gerro is getting a stack in, and Pete Nitschke has a shop in Caloundra (cant remember the name off hand) and he has informed me that he is getting some of the inital boards for the East Coast distribution - I believe Pete is the retailer Gesty was eluding to going in and checking the boards out soon. I will be up on the sunny coast next week and the week after so i am keen on having a closer look.... Not sure if there will be a Sydney distributer or whether all east coast retailers will need to deal through Pete's shop...Cheers, AJE

PS: As a point of interest, I also understand from mag interviews with ola and Kai (Kai Katchadourian), that Kai as a pro rider has chosen to no longer ride Keith Taboul's (Quatro) shapes, he is riding Ola's shapes via the Simmer branding - that's gotta add a truckload of credability to Ola's designs

Select to expand quote

CJW said...

I'm not 100kg so I can't really relate to the whole big board thing but I think the whole trend of riding bigger boards is certainly true. I'm 70-72kg and ride an 86L Fanatic quad as my all rounder. I've got a 75L RRD wave cult that is a true 'gun' down the line shape and these days i'll pick the quad every day out of the week because it planes earlier, turns shaper and it's a hell of a lot easier to slog out through white water.

Unfortunately I don't think you'll really ever see 115-120L wave boards as it's a small market.

Simple maths.
You weigh 72kg and your go to board is 86lt

Add 20kg to your weight and have a look at what's available in 106lt range...
Enjoy your excessive chips, pies and beer consumption you whippet while I dog out on clear soup and lettuce leaves

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

Reflex Films said...
there was an evo 100 available for a while - super loose and guess what ? no one bought them.

Not sure what Evo 100 you tried but the one I owned was neither super loose nor really fast. The fin that came with the board was the single worst fin I have ever used... it even eclipsed the junk they used to ship with the JP FSW.

Yes the board turned ok on a wave but it was ultimately slow and hard to get on the plane.

I second that stehsegler.
I had one for a year or two. got me one the water a lot (i'm 105kg) but it sucked.

I now have a Moo Custom (http://www.moocustom.co.uk/) twinser. about 110 litres, 232cm X 64.6cm with a nose of 44.5cm tail of 38cm.

I've only used on euro wave conditions, not proper dtl, but I love it feels so much small than its volume. and is super versatile, i've used right down to 4.0 weather and been very comfy.

Fun, versatile wave boards over 100 ltrs are totally feasible.

Nice looking twin.....

Heres my 2012 OES 105l quad.

As a 105kg sailor its awesome and these guys can make up to 120litres. No need to worry about lettuce leaves and clear soup

Simmer definately have created a stir in the mainstream manufacturers circuit. All the best to them. Given aus$ would be interesting to see how they rate value wise too.

Since you were involved in Starboard and now in Simmer, I always had the impression that mold or prototype was small board arround 75 - 70 L wave. Do you really make testing on 95L wave board? TO be more precise, when you design a new line of board, do you test your concept on 70 - 75 l board and then make bigger board with that concept tested on the smaller board? I'm a middle weight, so I'm usually right in the "good" size wave board the 75L board..so It's always good for me, bigger friends always have better board by ordering custom. I have a feeling that what is working for me doesn't fit for bigger friends...I was wondering if bigger proto was tested by Bjorn or guys who are heavy and than you started a line. I think the Evo back than was a great opportunity to do such a thing, the bigger Evo was really goof for single wave board at that time..I never liked the evo...but my bigger friend yes.. But even that, Big Pro's seems to ride pretty small boards even if they are big. Honnestly, testing are done mostly in good condition, West Oz, Maui..20 to 25 kts winds or stronger, with channels to go out..rarely in side-on, difficult conditions also..who represent a lot of your customers and where a bigger board is crucial, even for a lighter rider. Am I wrong on that?
thanks a lot for your time!

Select to expand quote

Ola H said...

Again, lots of good discussion o big boys wave boards here. Keep it coming. I'm a flyweight myself so opinions heavyweights are worth a lot - all of them.

Select to expand quote

NordRoi said...

Since you were involved in Starboard and now in Simmer, I always had the impression that mold or prototype was small board arround 75 - 70 L wave. Do you really make testing on 95L wave board? TO be more precise, when you design a new line of board, do you test your concept on 70 - 75 l board and then make bigger board with that concept tested on the smaller board?

That's my feeling to. I am always wondering if there are some manufactures that simply build a number of 80 liter prototypes and test those until they are happy with the shape. Then the shape is scanned and blown up / shrunk via CAD to the other volumes. Wether those are ever tested is another question.

Select to expand quote

NordRoi said...

Since you were involved in Starboard and now in Simmer, I always had the impression that mold or prototype was small board arround 75 - 70 L wave. Do you really make testing on 95L wave board? TO be more precise, when you design a new line of board, do you test your concept on 70 - 75 l board and then make bigger board with that concept tested on the smaller board? I'm a middle weight, so I'm usually right in the "good" size wave board the 75L board..so It's always good for me, bigger friends always have better board by ordering custom. I have a feeling that what is working for me doesn't fit for bigger friends...I was wondering if bigger proto was tested by Bjorn or guys who are heavy and than you started a line. I think the Evo back than was a great opportunity to do such a thing, the bigger Evo was really goof for single wave board at that time..I never liked the evo...but my bigger friend yes.. But even that, Big Pro's seems to ride pretty small boards even if they are big. Honnestly, testing are done mostly in good condition, West Oz, Maui..20 to 25 kts winds or stronger, with channels to go out..rarely in side-on, difficult conditions also..who represent a lot of your customers and where a bigger board is crucial, even for a lighter rider. Am I wrong on that?
thanks a lot for your time!

Ola H said...

Again, lots of good discussion o big boys wave boards here. Keep it coming. I'm a flyweight myself so opinions heavyweights are worth a lot - all of them.

Very good point Nord Roi. They need me to test the boards, I'm on the porky side, sail in crap conditions consistently and need all the help I can get when it comes to Wave Sailing!

We still waiting for a response....not sure you will test..probably they will use auto-cad to avoid a nice trip for you!

Select to expand quote

Waiting4wind said...

NordRoi said...
Very good point Nord Roi. They need me to test the boards, I'm on the porky side, sail in crap conditions consistently and need all the help I can get when it comes to Wave Sailing!

Select to expand quote

NordRoi said...

Since you were involved in Starboard and now in Simmer, I always had the impression that mold or prototype was small board arround 75 - 70 L wave. Do you really make testing on 95L wave board? TO be more precise, when you design a new line of board, do you test your concept on 70 - 75 l board and then make bigger board with that concept tested on the smaller board? I'm a middle weight, so I'm usually right in the "good" size wave board the 75L board..so It's always good for me, bigger friends always have better board by ordering custom. I have a feeling that what is working for me doesn't fit for bigger friends...I was wondering if bigger proto was tested by Bjorn or guys who are heavy and than you started a line. I think the Evo back than was a great opportunity to do such a thing, the bigger Evo was really goof for single wave board at that time..I never liked the evo...but my bigger friend yes.. But even that, Big Pro's seems to ride pretty small boards even if they are big. Honnestly, testing are done mostly in good condition, West Oz, Maui..20 to 25 kts winds or stronger, with channels to go out..rarely in side-on, difficult conditions also..who represent a lot of your customers and where a bigger board is crucial, even for a lighter rider. Am I wrong on that?
thanks a lot for your time!

Ola H said...

Again, lots of good discussion o big boys wave boards here. Keep it coming. I'm a flyweight myself so opinions heavyweights are worth a lot - all of them.

I think with EVOs, Scott did most of the developing and I always had the impression that all of them sort of were designed to work for him, even the 70 liter, then being his kind of high wind board, the 75 kind of specialized for more looseness/slower waves, the 80 the standard size, again with more drive like the 70 etc. But with the EVOs I think lots of work definitely went into those sizes, but maybe the 90 and 63 not getting as much attention. The 100 from what I heard was made for Antoine who also liked it a lot.

I don't know how other brands work, but I know for sure that most brands have some sweet boards and some not as sweet in every range. But that is not necessarily a result from to little testing of the not so good one. It may just as well be a bit of "luck" with the super sweet one.

With Simmer, we early on decided not to have that many sizes the first year and one important argument was the time for testing. We didn't want to jut scale something up/down without proper testing. Time limits were tight enough anyway. So we started with the FLy in two sizes for Kai who is around 80 or just below. So both the 75 and 84 are from the start made to cover his need for a light wind and medium wind boards respectively. Then as is happened, both of them ended up with unusually good weight carrying capabilities because of a really low drag rocker (relative to the high amount of total curve). The 69 was a later addition that was specifically designed for smaller people rather then as a high wind board for a medium weight guy. We had sailors from 62 to 72 kilo testing that one (72 being myself...).

Quantum were even more focused on a certain weight range rather, ie the 85 is not really designed as a big board for a small sailor but as an all round board for a medium weight.

So if we're gonna do bigger boards, we will definitely try to make them above all for bigger people and we will certainly involve bigger sailors in the testing process. As I kind of indicated above, I'm not a super fan of people getting (too) big boards but I am a fan of people getting the right sized boards for their weight and skill. And for bigger people that means bigger boards (made with bigger people in mind). One of the main points with the Quantum range are performance wave boards that work in the sort of non ideal conditions you describe but where they are also designed to offer a certain ease and stability even when not oversized too much. So if we make a 95 the number one priority will be to make it as good as possible for sailors between say 90 and 100. A board that as good as possible, even without the extra liters, covers even ****ty/light/difficult conditions for such a sailor.

Ola,

Thanks for shedding some light on your development process. This a level of transparency I wish some other brands would have. Will be interesting to see the final production range.