Noticed this recently. Interesting comments around the quality of production boards getting lower while prices getting higher. Will be interesting to see if these guys are any better.

http://www.windsurfermag.com/magazine/simmer-2012-board-range-quantam-quad-flywave-freestyle-wave/?params=M3w2NnwyMDU=

looks like starboard just lost their 69 quad designer

I want ,iwant i want one, nothing more nothing less simmer are the best Ha Ha

I'm happy to answer any question.

When will we be able to see one in Geraldton Ola?

Sharp eye might see a blue 75 liter Simmer quad around there already. One of the early boards from the mould which is used to test out some different constructions.

But real production samples will be made during spring. You have to check with the local Simmer distributor if he's ordering any.

Hi Ola

With the Quantum board that Kai is talking about, what is the fin configuration for the board and what sizes can we expect in this board?

PS: I assume when you say the boards are being built starting in spring, that is the American spring which is now????, so realistically we should be seeing these ready for our spring in Sept?????? Thanks.

Yeah, sorry, I meant northern hemisphere spring, aka starting right now (or at least within a few weeks) with building the first production samples.

So september shouldn't be a problem, but again, talk to your distributor.

Fins: We will offer a lineup of three different quad fins with names taken from the sails.

Mission: fairly sleek small front fins from 85 to 105mm and low area, high rake and high sweep (quite flexy) rear fin in 135 and 145mm. This is a super loose fin with great control, predictable top turn release when you want it.

Icon: A rather "stubby design" kind of inspired by the MUF Xtwins outlines but lower aspect (to get away from the problem with the xtwins that they feel very small until you're up to speed) and with some trick little curves in the outline to allow some flex (to give a bit more predictability in the top turns). Sizes 130 adn 140mm. These fins does not only add some power for straight line sailing but also gives noticably more drive in the bottom turn and a higher degree of grip in the top turn. To be used with the Mission front fins.

Black Tip: These are fins designed to work with the big fin up front but they work well also with the big fin in the back. They are also used in our thruster kit for the fsw. I've always thought the setup with a bigger front fin is the (or at least one part of) the future as it combines huge amounts of bottom turn drive with really good looseness once you "release" the board in the bottom turns. And in top turn you also have that sick ability to hold a turn but where you can still adjust the radius really well. Both on the quads and on the fsw we played a lot with toe in to get the feel in the bottom turn entry with this type of "powerful" fins setup just right (ie to get rid of some of that tracky feel that was a bit disturbing to some on the 2010 Starboard fx). Black line fins will come in 110, 120, 130 and 140 (slot) and 130, 150 and 170 us box. These are also rather high rake fins with a good deal of flex in them, but with more area in the tips than the Mission setup as well as a little bit thinner profiles at the base.

FlyWave 69 and 75 will come with mission 95+135
Flywave 84 with mission 105+145

Quantum 75 comes with mission 95 and Icon 130
Quantum 84 comes with mission 95 and Icon 140

FSW 85: Freewave 26 + blacktip 2*130+150
FSW 95: Freewave 28 + blacktip 2*140+150
FSW105: Freewave30 + blacktip 2*140+170

The FSW board is really something special, designed from the ground up to work well with a thruster setup. I reckon it fills a bit of an empty (or at least not very densely populated) spot in the market by being a REALLY good wave board as well as doing the classic fsw duties in a good way too.

The Blacktips are not standard on any of the quads (we went the safe route with a more main stream "small fin up front" setup). But I'm sure that if you would rather have a Black tip set, your distributor/shop can help make a switch. We choose the fins for each board to really emphasize the "core performance" of the respective designs, but we tested them also with the other fins and it can make a lot of sense to put Icon fins on the FLy and Mission fins on the Quantums to fine tune performance and feel. Again, we hope the shops will order some complementary fins and help out in getting you and extra set or to just switch them out right away if you have your preferences clear.


PS: We have been thinking of a 93 wave board also, but we don't have one ready for this first "sample" production run and it's still up in the air if we will go for one or not. In fact, we're debating what would complement the lineup the best (considering the fsw boards are already very, very competent in waves): a Fly 93 at maybe 58-58.5cms or a Quantum 93 at maybe 60.5-61 cms.

Thanks for the details Ola. I would personally like to see a 93L in the Quantum. Would suit the heavier sailor on the Ozzie east coast perfectly, or even for the lightweights who want a bigger/floatier Quad for when the wind is dodgey. For me at 90kg of weight, the Quantum is no question the board for spring/summer on the east coast of Oz, and with that extra volume for the heavier guys (in a 93L) it would work a treat - but hey, that is my personal wishlist for my situation - everyone has their wishlist.

Thanks again for the details, if you guys decide to build the 93 in Quantum please let me know. Was just about to order the RRD Wavecult Quad in 92L before I started chatting to Johan just now, will hold off and see what you guys decide to do.

The FSW sounds interesting. Would love to see a bigger board in this style too. There are numerous threads on this site (below) discussing the need for bigger volume waveboards for light wind days, where guys can get a board about 20-25 litres above their weight in kg, so for me, something around 110-115L where guys my weight can float out with the kites with a bigger sail but still catch some waves if they are on.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Wave-sailing/bigger-wave-board-part-2fat-btard-wave-sailing/?page=1

There is a "part 2" to the above thread i just cant locate it

Regards, Adam

Hi Ola,
I think a 93L fly wave would generate a bit of interest. It opens the door to getting a great turning board, that sails like a 82-84 L "normal" board and is technical to sail, but the volume makes it a bit more accessible. Coupled with quad fins giving a large range, for people 80 kg and above. You see a lot of 2nd hand sub 80 L DTL boards in WA. I think a good size is sailor weight + 5L, so a 93L fly wave would be perfect

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TwinMan said...

When will we be able to see one in Geraldton Ola?

G-Spot is hopefully getting the proto 75L soon (Johan - Gero looks good today and tomorrow). It will be available to demo. I will post as soon as it is. G-Spot will have the full range of Simmer boards from June with reviews to follow.

Thanks guys. Your opinions are noted.

If you see Johan around the Geraldton area, note that he is 80+ and (according to reports) gets around fine on the 75 liter Fly. So despite this being a VERY radical board think it's safe to say it has better weight carrying capabilities than what you would maybe expect. But true, as a radical all rounder or even light winder for people well above 80, the 84 fly will be on the small side.

And an (in practice even bigger) Quantum 93 would make sense too. We'll continue to think about it but at the very earliest this would be for september production.

Another vote for a 93l full on waveboard.. An area production seems to forget about ie 87-97kg wavesailors sailing tidy conditions. .. Fanatic 93 twin is one standout..

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welshside said...

Another vote for a 93l full on waveboard.. An area production seems to forget about ie 87-97kg wavesailors sailing tidy conditions. .. Fanatic 93 twin is one standout..

I actually think this is single most overlooked segment in the wave sailing market at the moment. It seem the majority of board manufacturers make wave boards aimed at their 65 kg team riders. I am guess the majority of people that end up buying those 75 to 85 liter quad / thruster wave boards buy them for high wind bumb and jump... not down the line wave raiding.

Looking down the line wave sailing places like the Australian East coast or even Gnaraloo in WA you really need a wave board that will float you at least somewhat. For someone over 90 kgs in weight this means a 92 to 100 liter wave board. Most people over this way during last summer seemed to be using either 93 Fantatic Quads or 93 / 99 JP Thursters. There where are few Nude boards around as well.

Not sure how much of a market there is for these type of boards in Europe though. I guess at the end of the day that market is makes up the majority of sales and Australia is really only a secondary market.

Alot of the wave sailors down here are coming round to the fact that your better off with a bigger board.. I think there is/was a fashion to have smallest board you could get away with but that seems to be dying out.. 5 years ago i only sailed 80 l boards now 95% of my sailing is on the 93..

Last year at Klitmoller Fernandez used a 91 for most his heats....

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stehsegler said...
It seem the majority of board manufacturers make wave boards aimed at their 65 kg team riders.

65kg team riders, seriously...?? I'd be extremely surprised if you could actually name a single team rider (excluding ladies) who would be in that weight bracket. Most of them look to be more in the 75-85kg range.

Not that I'm disagreeing that a 93-100L board is a bad idea, but man you talk a lot of crap regarding this whole perceived bias against bigger sailers in basically every thread you post in (along with pimping jp single thrusters incessantly). Unless you are well over 6 ft, then easy solution, lose 5kg, you'll also be doing your own health and our health system a favour.

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swoosh said...
Not that I'm disagreeing that a 93-100L board is a bad idea, but man you talk a lot of crap regarding this whole perceived bias against bigger sailers in basically every thread you post in (along with pimping jp single thrusters incessantly). Unless you are well over 6 ft, then easy solution, lose 5kg, you'll also be doing your own health and our health system a favour.

Well... I am 6.4 so I guess I know somewhat what I am talking about.

As far as production wave boards in the 100 liter range are concerned please name examples other than the obvious candidates: RRD 99 Wave, JP 99 Single Thruster, 99 L OES QUAD... that's about all there is available in the shops last I checked... for some bizarre reason most manufacturers have been trying to palm off their 100 Freewave boards as wave boards... well after trying a number of them let me tell you they are not really wave boards.

I talked to Hawaiian semi custom board maker a year or so ago and they outright said that's not their market and that they have little experience in that segment and that I would be better off buying one of their Freewave 100 liter boards. I guess as least they were honest.

The thing is... if other companies would make 100 liter boards that are on par with the Fanatic Quads (sadly they don't make a 100 liter version of their Quad), JP Thrusters or OES (this one I have not tried but people have been saying good things about them) I would be more than happy to rave about those as well. Until that day I'll keep telling people about stuff that's actually available in a shop here in OZ...

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swoosh said...
Unless you are well over 6 ft, then easy solution, lose 5kg, you'll also be doing your own health and our health system a favour.

Not everyone is heavy because they're fat! Having said that I have lost over 5kgs and my go to board is now a 92ltr not the 105ltr.

90-93ltr quad would be my next purchase.

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stehsegler said...
Well... I am 6.4 so I guess I know somewhat what I am talking about.

I'm sure you realise then that you belong to a somewhat smaller segment of the market then the so called '65kg team riders'. Hardly a surprise really that there is less options out there, its a simple matter of economics. Either way there seems to be enough options for the larger sailor, so there is no need for you to post in ever thread complaining about it and extolling your favourite gear brand cause they happen to make a waveboard for large sailors.

yes you are a jp/np pimp, its getting pretty old thou, people these days have realised that they don't have a monopoly on good gear and in fact a lot of it is overpriced and fairly mediocre.

p.s. weren't you the one pimping jp FSW's as a good waveboard recently? wtf.

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swoosh said...

stehsegler said...
Well... I am 6.4 so I guess I know somewhat what I am talking about.

I'm sure you realise then that you belong to a somewhat smaller segment of the market then the so called '65kg team riders'. Hardly a surprise really that there is less options out there, its a simple matter of economics. Either way there seems to be enough options for the larger sailor, so there is no need for you to post in ever thread complaining about it and extolling your favourite gear brand cause they happen to make a waveboard for large sailors.

ahm... if you would actually read the original post by Ola H you would realise that my message was in response to his point about bringing out a larger volume wave board.

Also, don't make assumptions about a market based on those five vertically challenged windsurfers up in Queensland. There is a whole big world out there in case you haven't noticed yet. Ask retailers and they will tell you the trend is towards larger volume wave boards.

considering the average age in windsurfing is over 40 i'd say it's naive to think that the heavy sailor is the minority in the sport.

there is a reason the general idea that heavyweights sail slalom and light weights sail waves existis in windsurfing, and it has nothing to do with weight

Given the talk recently about large waveboards I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.

It seems the board brands are listening to the call for larger wave boards. Although I recall many brands had a large wave board from time to time over the last 10 years, it seems they always got dropped from the range with in a year or two as they did not sell well. I remember being told that no one wanted to put their money down, so the brands scrapped the bigger boards. Simple economics really.

Well we have all got a bit older and heavier, the winds have gotten lighter and the boards better and I see that big wave boards have made a comeback over the last year. I have been using a freestyle 98 ltr with wave fin on the light wave days but it just isn't as good for pure riding as a wave board although the volume is just right for the lightest days.

I have just put an order in for the new RRD wave cult quad board that is coming in 100 ltrs for next season (woohoo). I have sailed the 92 a bit lately and the drive in light winds from the quad fins was great for real turns on the junky waves. But that bit extra volume will be just like the freestyle board for floating out and grovel value.

I have really loved my 82 ltr RRD twin over the last 2 years and will be sad to part with it. However, the new 100 wave cult quad can also be used as a twin fin as well like just like the entire RRD cult line, so hopefully I can get the best of both worlds with a quad for drive when needed and a twin for other conditions.

i get a bit frustrated at all this claiming that there isnt any good gear for the larger guys

i rode an evo 90 in Vietnam that jsut absolutely slayed waves - that was a 4 year old shape.. there was an evo 100 available for a while - super loose and guess what ? no one bought them.

I rode a carve 101 with a 7.5 also and guess what? totally possible to slay small waves on that combo - and i usually sail in wa on 4.7 - 5.7 in good conditions


rode a kode 94 single fin / 5.7 severne gator the other day

2 of us rode it - me at 85 kg - the other guy at 78 kgs

ABSOLUTELY no problems throwing it around in the surf - sick bottom turn

super early planing

super easy to land jumps

throws buckets

I am sure that there are other brands out there that also do a good of making big turny boards

maybe crew need to spend a little more time dialling in to boards before running down the industry - claiming that there isnt a board on the market for the larger guys

- there have actually been great boards available for quite some time

^^^^^Agree - the fanatic 104 and skate 112 are great fun in small waves and light winds had many a fun session while crew sit on the beach & whinge about it being too light.

This big board thing... there are many aspects of it. I think that if you are 85 it's still easy to find appropriate boards. But it you're closer to 100 is't not as easy. Surely if you're good and sail at a spot where you're not so critical about perfect wave performance you can get away with a big fsw. But in the end that's a compromise.

So I do reckon that for larger people there is a need for dedicated larger wave boards too. The mentioned EVO 100 was a great example that was particularly designed for the need of heavier sailors. I'd say that if you were under 85 or even under 90 kg, the EVO 90 was a better board, but for the real heavyweights the 100 was a gem. It was not only blow up from the 90 but blown up in such a way that it would carry a bigger guy and a bigger sail. Incidentally, in my opinion that made it slow and cumbersome for a light weight, significantly more so than the 90 and for me at 72 kilos, the EVO 80 from the same generation was simply better at everything, even the lightest of light with as big a sail that I would ever wanna use in waves.

My own philosophy on board size is that some modern shapes are to ineffective in light winds in most cases. I don't think it's reasonable when a 75 kg sailor feels he has to grab a 90 liter board to get reasonable planing. And with many of the higher rockered boards even upsizing that much will not help. Many shape aspects has come together for this "upsizing" trend. Twin fin designs, some brands stuffing more volume along the center in recent shapes, some brands large amounts of rocker and even more concaves and stuff to stabilize what is essentially short and quite nervous designs. Non of this is wrong per se. There is a time and a place for it. But when mixed up with a general message that modern boards can be choosen bigger I think it can get confusing.

My personal view, as stated earlier, is that if you're heavy you will likely be happier on a bigger board of the right type. But for lighter people I'm not a big fan of oversized boards. Starting from a baseline of maybe 0-5 liters more than your weight in kilos, quite often when you make the board significantly bigger (with the same rocker) it tend to get draggier. I think this comes from a relation between light and drag. Assuming you already have enough lift, more width/size will practically only add drag. So if you want something for earlier planing, it's better to go for an earlier planing board in the same size (or just slightly bigger) than to go for something ultra large.

Another thing I've experienced is that for any shape, there is usually a "perfect" size that will you the biggest range. If you go bigger, you will increase your light wind range ever so slighlty, but get punished quite severely in the high wind range. And vice versa. The perfect size depends a bit on the shape but roughly it's around your weight in volume up to 5 liters plus (or even a bit more for some boards).

There are some exceptions. If you're sailing good waves and are a bit of a novice, then if helps with a bit more width volume simply because the board becomes more stable and less demanding.

And if you regularly sail sub planing in good waves, a slightly bigger (say 10 liter +) waveboard will help you get upwind better than on a 3-5 liter + board will, even if you can technically handle such a board also when it's super light.

In a more wind swell type environment I'd say that sizing gets even more critical since many of the god days will be when it is really windy while the majority of days will still be light wind stuff. In such environments, it is even more questionable to upsize the board and still expect a wide range.

Finally, I also think that an all round board for a heavier person is not necessarily the same thing as a super light wind board for a medium weight. The EVO 90/100 is a good example.

In the Simmer project we have tried to make all boards fairly effective so that you don't need to upsize them. Even the very high rockered Fly carry heavier people surprisingly well. But they are still narrow enough so that you can pick a bigger one and still enjoy good wave performance on a serious waves (and to follow through that thought it would indeed make sense with a bigger one in the program). Again though, generally I think you will find you can go for a bit less volume that recent years trends would indicate. And if you get this type of board for riding a more wind swell oriented break there will be even less need to upsize it.

And the Quantums are even more effective and should definitely not be chosen to big. Unless in very special case, I think you shouldn't go much above your weight in kilos. As an all round wave board for wind swell type breaks (ie a board to be used when there is enough wind to generate any sort of waves). I think the 85 liter quantum is surely enough for 85 kilo sailors and maybe even a bit more. But that said, there are heavier sailors out there and they deserve a big enough board, so we will seriously look into adding a bigger Quantum. I would't get a bigger Quantum to get a more "safe, easy and stable" ride though. The Quantums are designed to be super quick around the corners in slower waves but still with enough power to carry speed in slower waves. I think upsizing them will limit the wind range to much. For something more stable, the FSW in tri fin mode is definitely the way to go. Contrary to some other fsws, our version stays very composed in higher winds and is even prefered over the Quantum in high wind situations, particularly for more novice riders (that normally get into trouble in high wind situations on normal fsws because the simply get to hectic).

OK, all for now...

i agree with much of what sir Ola said above

i also agree that alot of modern boards are a bit over rockered - i've seen a definite slow down in alot of people's jump performance - to the point where i see friends on their back up old boards - when the new one has gone into repairsville - and suddenly their jumping performance and all round speed has gone nuts -

Green eggs at Scarbs was a big example for me this summer - his jumping went nuts when he got back on his old single fin for a few weeks

also there is definitely a trend for sailors to ride bigger boards as the all rounder

- the days of 80 kg riders using 70 litre boards at pozo for example are all but gone- this is because as boards get shorter you can handle the extra volume as there is less swing weight there - result - wider sailing performance envelope - and much more wind range.

in a perfect world i reckon you sail the fastest rocker you can still turn - with enough shaping etc to just get the turning performance you are happy with. As you go past that magic rocker point into "over rocker land" - fun and balanced performance drops off at an exponential rate

hopefully i'll get to have a close look at the simmer boards soon. the shop i go to is getting them in. so i'm excited about that. i've read pages of your posts on boards forum ola, much respect to you!

general comment to others, on the heavy weight wave board thing,

although 100 litres is considered a big board by most, for a heavy weight. ie 100kg sailor it's not. lets be honest in australia a heavy weight is looking for a board for 12-22knots rigged with a 5.8m sail and maybe 6.4m for 12knots.

107-115lt is more where volume should be.

if we look at the starboard kode as one example given of a wave board for heavy weights, and leave rocker out of the discussion,

firstly, the kode has a tuttle box, secondly, the kode doesn't have heel bumpers in the bigger boards and third point, the widths of the bigger kodes are a little high for surf. clearly it's not designed as a heavy weights wave board.

it's not just a case of scaling up a 95lt board by making it a little thicker or going to 68cm wide to achieve a bigger volume board which is what most manufacturers appear to do.

as soon as i see a large volume, thicker boards with a pin tail marketted as a heavy weights board i know it's not. unfortunately, pin tails suck for heavy guys in my experience. there is just not enough volume. the tail needs to be either square tailed or swallow in my mind to get the best performance, and that width needs a multi fin setup to work best in surf.

unfortunately with that you get a speed dissadvantage. personally i'll take the small lose of speed any day if it means a little more volume in the tail.

quite a few incorrect statements there i am afraid:

Kode 103 and down is US box - so get your wave fins in there !
They have heel bumpers or similar technology through the range

i will concede that in sizes above 94 litres Kode wave performance does taper off - but i still reckon and advanced intermediate could throw them around

be careful what you deem as " widths too high for surf " - 1 decade ago anything over 54 cm was deemed outrageous - look at the standard board widths now.. 58 is a very common size - and actually a good all round width - the 78 kg guy that won the nats recently rides a 58 cm board as his all rounder - and spends alot of time on a 60 cm wide board - that has insane wave performance -

imagine what an open minded 100 kg rider could do on a 64 cm wide board with a 6.5 set on a quality mast and boom combo - in fact that is a combo i;d love to have in my quiver

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Gestalt said...

hopefully i'll get to have a close look at the simmer boards soon. the shop i go to is getting them in. so i'm excited about that. i've read pages of your posts on boards forum ola, much respect to you!

general comment to others, on the heavy weight wave board thing,

although 100 litres is considered a big board by most, for a heavy weight. ie 100kg sailor it's not. lets be honest in australia a heavy weight is looking for a board for 12-22knots rigged with a 5.8m sail and maybe 6.4m for 12knots.

107-115lt is more where volume should be.

if we look at the starboard kode as one example given of a wave board for heavy weights, and leave rocker out of the discussion,

firstly, the kode has a tuttle box, secondly, the kode doesn't have heel bumpers in the bigger boards and third point, the widths of the bigger kodes are a little high for surf. clearly it's not designed as a heavy weights wave board.

it's not just a case of scaling up a 95lt board by making it a little thicker or going to 68cm wide to achieve a bigger volume board which is what most manufacturers appear to do.

as soon as i see a large volume, thicker boards with a pin tail marketted as a heavy weights board i know it's not. unfortunately, pin tails suck for heavy guys in my experience. there is just not enough volume. the tail needs to be either square tailed or swallow in my mind to get the best performance, and that width needs a multi fin setup to work best in surf.

unfortunately with that you get a speed dissadvantage. personally i'll take the small lose of speed any day if it means a little more volume in the tail.

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Reflex Films said...


quite a few incorrect statements there i am afraid:

Kode 103 and down is US box - so get your wave fins in there !
They have heel bumpers or similar technology through the range

i hardly see how what i said is incorrect information.

for starters 103lt is not enough volume for a heavyweight and the 113 and 123lt board are tuttle box

secondly, what is "similar technology"? is that like virtual volume, because according to the starboard website the heel bumpers are only incorporated into the 68, 74, 80 kodes.

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i will concede that in sizes above 94 litres Kode wave performance does taper off - but i still reckon and advanced intermediate could throw them around

94lt is not enought volume by any stretch for a heavy weight.

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be careful what you deem as " widths too high for surf " - 1 decade ago anything over 54 cm was deemed outrageous - look at the standard board widths now.. 58 is a very common size - and actually a good all round width - the 78 kg guy that won the nats recently rides a 58 cm board as his all rounder - and spends alot of time on a 60 cm wide board - that has insane wave performance -

making comparisions of a 78kg guy is exactly the problem here. the two concepts are not linear. i own a 70cm wide board that i use in small surf, love it, my weight allows me to throw it around where as lightweights that have used it felt it was too wide. but it isn't and wasn't designed as a pure wave board. other than rocker it's just too wide for snappy top turns.

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imagine what an open minded 100 kg rider could do on a 64 cm wide board with a 6.5 set on a quality mast and boom combo - in fact that is a combo i;d love to have in my quiver

agree, 65-66cm 107-115lt board is exactly where a heavy weight needs to be. forgive me but i don't see that type of board in the starboards quiver.

For goodness sakes Gestalt, you do seem like the argumentative type!

I'm 105-108kgs and ride a 94 Kode and absolutley love it Is very much along the lines of what Reflex suggests.
Also have a 98 Naish Global Wave. Similar story.
The improvements in these styles of boards and what they can do for the "bigger man" has been fantastic.

Rather than tell us what suits us, how about asking us?

Him and mark are good mates,both are never wrong,just ask them.

It comes with getting older I think,,it has happend to my grandfather too and will happen to all of us I guess.