Toeside in regard to your comments about sailing to a destination, Lauren the NZ girl who just came over for the RSX states was saying in NZ they often organise a sail to a destination, some island in Auckland harbour, a couple of hours to get there have lunch and a couple of hours to get back. She said it was always a great day.

The sailing manager at RQ mentioned the possibility of hosting a windsurfing event that sailed to Tangalooma stayed the night and then sailed back. If there was enough interest to cover costs of saftey boats etc I am pretty sure the club would be up for it. It could be a single day event to some other destination if preferred but it would be a real possibilty.

If be in that. Prefer one day event not overnight. Less logistics and wife approval.

Wow, great thread. To catch up a bit:

1. I'd be in a Tangalooma event fo' sho'

2. The cost thing is real, but for most of us the arms race isn't real unless we want it to be. Falling in once will cost you more ground than spending an extra $3K will make up. When you never fall in, always nail your starts, always nail your tacks and are snapping at the heels of the top 4 or 5 guys, THEN you might find spending is the limiting factor. Toeside might want to cozy up to a sponsor, but for me? Well, I dream of a day when the gear is the limiting factor.

3. I actually really would like the formula scene here to take off. Having both raceboard and formula is pretty sweet, budget and storage space permitting.

4. I have half-a-dozen formula fins if that helps anybody out. Of course, they are all old (C3s and a couple of Debs) and not at all what's recommended for the current boards, but they'd suit anyone who's still sailing that Fanatic TT that Paddy sells to someone every couple of years ;)

This is GREAT stuff!

Interesting to see everyone's views. I'm pretty pro formula as you can imagine. I really think formula is a bit elitist; and that's kind of the appeal of it. It's about racing and it's about tuning up your gear and trying to go faster. I think the elitist competitive aspect of it probably does drive some people away but on the flip side it gets some people really interested in it. That's definitely the aspect that drives me to keep doing it. Much like RSX is to raceboards, people aren't sailing RSX for 'fun'; they're doing it to get fitter and stronger and faster and try to be the best in the world. I liken it to what drives an triathlete to get up at 4am each morning and get on the bike ...

From a recreational standpoint, I think you get tons more days on the water with formula than slalom. Sure, you can plane on your 9m in 10 knots but you are pretty much dogging. In 10 knots with an 11m you can be BLASTING downwind over 20 knots and doing loops out to Green Island all afternoon ... Does anyone REALLY like lightwind slalom? Be honest ....................

As for why NSW has(had) a great formula series when QLD doesn't .. I think, like any organised windsurfing series to flourish it needs EXTREMELY motivated people to run it who are willing to give up ALL of their time unselfishly. NSW has had a good run of these kinds of people, Bill Joslin, Brett Morris, Adam Craven and the current guys running it ... Not to say QLD didn't have these people, but just didn't have these people for formula. Windsurfing isn't big enough to have multiple disciplines with strong series running all at once ... For example, in QLD, Bayside has been really great at getting slalom racing happening and is actually the biggest slalom fleet regularly racing in Australia (because of some motivated people putting in the time) ... NSW on the other hand has struggled to get slalom racing happening in the past few years despite having a strong formula fleet.

Not sure what the solution is ... but formula is great!

I only own 2 sails for formula. I only need one of them for 90% of the racing that takes place around the world actually. Compared to slalom it's a LOT less gear (albeit it is expensive gear because its the most cutting edge designed equipment in windsurfing).

Some comparisons from the pro tour out of pure interest for people (realise this doesn't relate to real world windsurfing whatsoever).

My formula equipment at the 2014 FW Worlds:
1x board
2x sails
2x booms
2x fins (only used 1 fin)

My equipment for a typical PWA slalom event:
3x boards
6x sails
3x booms (would bring 4 if I owned 4)
14x fins

Competitive slalom for me is really, really expensive because there is so much gear. That being said, recreational slalom I only need have a 9m / 7.8m and a 107 and I'm sweet for nearly 90% of Brisbane's conditions ;-)

Nice to hear from you Sean. Congrats on your great results at the formula worlds.

I was hoping you would jump in on this thread, and give us your thoughts.
What size formula sail are you referring to re 90% of your formula sailing? If you just did formula recreationally in Brisbane like us, what sail would you use?

We're trying to get a regular formula crew together in the bay. It'd be nice to have others to sail with regularly, with the goal of eventually doing some racing interstate.

What's Elitist about sailing a door!

Kicks a raceboards backside around a course above 12kts. Actually I'm not aware of any sailcraft apart from Americas cup boats that can beat a formula. You don't have to take sides, have both. I do.

I believe the moth is faster as well.

but yeah other than an Americas cup yacht there is not much that will beat a formula setup around a course in 10-12 knots. contrary to what was written earlier in this thread a race board isn't quicker.

in less than 8 knots you'll find a one design able to beat a raceboard as well.

sean summed it up well. although a slalom board will plane in 10 knots or so at that wind you are lit up on a formula setup once going. nothing beats the adrenalin of formula sailing in my experience.

Top speed has little to do with good racing. If you want speed, that's what speed boards are for. However, I think the best racing is where everyone has similar speeds. ...and the skill is in not losing your speed relative to others.

That's really interesting about Sean's equipment. That's a lot of fins for slalom!!

Nobody has mentioned it yet, so I am going to. What about One Design Formula (contradiction in terms i know) or Starboard Formula Experience? Seems like a good idea?

Aside from RQ there's no other racing in Brisbane suitable for formula on a regular basis, I'm happy to keep sailing there but I know membership is a significant barrier to developing a local fleet. I would sail at other events if they existed but they don't and I really don't know how to kick them off. Is it something Bayside could add next season, I would be happy to contribute to the work required.

On the 16th and 17th of August, Lake Cootharaba Sailing Club should be hosting it's Annual All Boats regatta.

This would be an opportunity to race Doors vs Logs vs The best boards.

Until then Logs are apparently fastest up until 8 knots, Raceboards in 8-12 knots and Formula over 12knots. Yea Right!

Bring on the show down I say. It's all in good gest.

I would enjoy racing my Formula but can't afford the $ to join RQ.. I'm now living at Suttons Beach so looking at heading out from there on the Formula board a lot more often. I wouldn't mind betting that as soon as you're planning on a formula board you will beat a raceboard. I've sailed with the RQ fleet a few times with a 10m sail and as soon as I'm planning the race boards are slower.. With the 11.5 I have now, planning happens very early... just got to get better at handling the downwind speed and sailing deep enough to survive in more wind..
Formula is a big challenge to learn as I found out a couple of years ago when I sailed at the Nats at Hawks Nest. The NSW guy's made it look easy.. like anything, time on water is required to get better... Hope for some racing this coming summer..

Cheers
David

suttons is a very good place to sail your formula gear. you just need to be carefull of the sand banks at low tide. I removed the tail of my board there.

I had a memorable session there in an easterly about 12-14 knots. Sean and I were blasting parallel to the shore with me trying to keep up. it's a great run sailing from the suttons pocket all of the way down past margate.

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brynoz said...
On the 16th and 17th of August, Lake Cootharaba Sailing Club should be hosting it's Annual All Boats regatta.

This would be an opportunity to race Doors vs Logs vs The best boards.

Until then Logs are apparently fastest up until 8 knots, Raceboards in 8-12 knots and Formula over 12knots. Yea Right!

Bring on the show down I say. It's all in good gest.

wodoz.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-on-technoweenies.html

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Steve1001 said...
What size formula sail are you referring to re 90% of your formula sailing? If you just did formula recreationally in Brisbane like us, what sail would you use?

11m is the size that most of us would use in 90% of the conditions. The bigger sails are only really necessary if you are racing a fleet where everyone has bigger sails. They don't necessarily get any on the plane that much earlier, they just go faster downwind ... A few brands are making an 11.5m size this year which is also nice.

As DarkHorse said though, formula is a bit of a challenge to learn and takes some time. If you've come off raceboards or big slalom gear with +9m sails then jumping up to a 10m is not so bad and I'd recommend people start with a 10m to get used to the size and feeling of it, before you jump straight up to an 11m.

The NSW guys are pretty advanced in their fleet. Most of the guys there started formula in 2001 when it began with 8.5m sails and slowly progressed as the sails got bigger and boards got wider...So the bulk of the fleet has been doing formula racing +10 years. Down there, we find the new guys in the fleet struggle to get the buzz as they are quite slow in comparison to the middle fleet guys and then after 1-2 seasons they sometimes lose interest and quit. I guess the same thing must happen in France when you go to a local slalom contest and 8 of the Top 20 guys on the PWA tour are racing you.

Not sure how to fix that ... guess the 'community' aspect of the sport has to really be there.

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brynoz said...
What's Elitist about sailing a door!

Mine is an 170L door at 8.9kg that can do +34 knots downwind with an 11m ... Not too many doors around that high-tech ;-)

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da vecta said...
That's really interesting about Sean's equipment. That's a lot of fins for slalom!!

I'm currently at the first PWA slalom event in Spain right now. Alberto Menegatti (2nd overall last year) has around 45 fins here. All different shapes and layups for differing wind conditions... It's actually a bit of a joke... :-/

I have had a Severne 9.6m R3 for a couple of seasons now and a 11.0 formula experience. The 9.6 has been used week in week out and is nearly worn out. I reckon your getting good value out of your gear when you have to replace it because its worn out rather than just updating to a new model for the sake of it. Looking forward to getting a 10.7 R5 at the end of the year as my new go to sail.

Good luck at the event Sean

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[b]

Mine is an 170L door at 8.9kg that can do +34 knots downwind with an 11m ... Not too many doors around that high-tech ;-)

34kts on a formula!!! That's smokin!! 24kts feels fast on a formula downwind, so 34 must be insane. Sean, did you do that in choppy conditions, or on a speed bank.

Sailor's fin stash at the PWA Costa Brava mens slalom event yesterday - photo by John Carter.

Note: fin lengths in 0.5cm increments; various stiffness S- S--; choice of outlines ZSF and ZSL

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Gestalt said..

in less than 8 knots you'll find a one design able to beat a raceboard as well.

<blows coffee out nose>

Sorry, I know this is a formula thread, but I can't help myself. Which of these three looks like it might be going faster in this gentle breeze on Botany Bay? Hint - the raceboard is the one in the middle.

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SeanAUS120 said..

da vecta said...
That's really interesting about Sean's equipment. That's a lot of fins for slalom!!

I'm currently at the first PWA slalom event in Spain right now. Alberto Menegatti (2nd overall last year) has around 45 fins here. All different shapes and layups for differing wind conditions... It's actually a bit of a joke... :-/

Serious question - so that's like a different fin for every 0.5 knot variation in wind speed, right? It seems to me that two things are guaranteed: one, he has the perfect fin no matter what the conditions and 2) that fin is almost certainly not in the board at the time. What am I missing here?

we're not just talking straight line speed though are we. there is a course to navigate.

have a read of this article.
wodoz.blogspot.com/2011/04/taking-on-technoweenies.html

that article is inline with what happened at burrum.

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jmetcher said..

Gestalt said..

in less than 8 knots you'll find a one design able to beat a raceboard as well.

<blows coffee out nose>

Sorry, I know this is a formula thread, but I can't help myself. Which of these three looks like it might be going faster in this gentle breeze on Botany Bay? Hint - the raceboard is the one in the middle.

Another awesome afternoon formula session yesterday. 8-12kts SE at manly. Planing 100%, 22kts on downwind, pointing 30' upwind, go anywhere. The only problem with formula and raceboards is you get lonely because you're the only one out there (except Richie who tried admirably on his slalom kit to get going).

And the 300m metre walk back through the mud to the stairs at low tide

At low tide (yesterday) I go down the rocks and straight into the harbour mouth. Booties advisable on the rocks for grip and cuts.

Heading out tomorrow afternoon Steve probably about 1.30

I'm thinking of doing a Greek inspired courtyard. Does anyone know where I might be able to get a door like this?





(...just jokes, I love those things)

This guy might have a spare one, whoo hooo,,

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SeanAUS120 said..

brynoz said...
What's Elitist about sailing a door!

Mine is an 170L door at 8.9kg that can do +34 knots downwind with an 11m ... Not too many doors around that high-tech ;-)

Geez you should post the session to GPSSS - it'd put you right up the top (although I notice they did theirs on flat water, with smaller sails and small fins)
www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=rankings&Year=-&Tab=0&Gender=0&WeightClass=0&AgeClass=0&SpeedType=9