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tbwonder said..
There are basic instructions in the IQ store where you downloaded the datafields

I have written a more detailed guide at www.haigh.id.au/GPSTC.htm which is for the Version 4 Datafields, but the installation process is the same

Or go to Youtube and search for installing datafields on Garmin watches.

Hi Andrew,
thank you for your hard work.
Can I ask which version suits for Instinct please ?
I searched up from Field 1 to Field 3, there is no one mentioned Instinct.

Thanks again!

Garmin Instinct Watches do not support Datafields from the IQ Store.

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tbwonder said..
Garmin Instinct Watches do not support Datafields from the IQ Store.

How disappointed news for me. We are all Garmin family.

think garmins forerunners245 music on special at the moment
i got one

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tony d ford said..
think garmins forerunners245 music on special at the moment
i got one

Tone there's a new Garmin 255 music coming out now so 245 music will have some great runout deals coming. www.theverge.com/2022/5/31/23148570/garmin-forerunner-255-955-wearables-smartwatches

Apparently the new 255 has some pretty whiz bang GPS chipset technology (dual frequency multi band) that improves positional accuracy quite a bit in difficult environments (buildings etc.). Not sure what that means for windsurfing though. Could be worth some extra cash?

They can't even bother to do one frequency band right. And this would require double everything to be done well: antenna, amplifier, filter, receiver. Also, we don't have issues this would solve. On top of that, there's only a handful of such chipsets and their results in other settings aren't amazing. Marketing again.

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JulienLe said..
They can't even bother to do one frequency band right. And this would require double everything to be done well: antenna, amplifier, filter, receiver. Also, we don't have issues this would solve. On top of that, there's only a handful of such chipsets and their results in other settings aren't amazing. Marketing again.

OK.... well at least the chargers work I guess?

Quick google for "Garmin charger issue" would tell you that. Apple made a phone that couldn't catch signal and Samsung made a phone with exploding batteries but all hail the megacorps.

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JulienLe said..
Quick google for "Garmin charger issue" would tell you that. Apple made a phone that couldn't catch signal and Samsung made a phone with exploding batteries but all hail the megacorps.

OK.... whatever you say. Well at least you can pick them up right now and the screens work.

Would you like a mini motion to use with your Garmin and this app Adrian? I have some spares ordered if you do, or one of the other group orders may have a spare, they have been coming to Oz for some time now.

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Dezza said..
Would you like a mini motion to use with your Garmin and this app Adrian? I have some spares ordered if you do, or one of the other group orders may have a spare, they have been coming to Oz for some time now.

Thanks for the offer Dezza. I have no need or desire for a Motion. The only benefit for me of the Motion over my Garmin is that the GPSTC would accept the data. All the other extensive features of my Garmin are much more usable to me (it is 5 years old and used daily and still works for a start!!) and although I miss being involved with the GPSTC, I will wait until they can sort things out as they said they would a couple years ago to be more in line with the stated philosophy of "inclusion" and "participation".

I'm so sorry we're collectively failing you vosadrian. These few cheap shots will for sure make a difference now.

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vosadrian said..

JulienLe said..
Quick google for "Garmin charger issue" would tell you that. Apple made a phone that couldn't catch signal and Samsung made a phone with exploding batteries but all hail the megacorps.

OK.... whatever you say. Well at least you can pick them up right now and the screens work.

You're back... where have you been ? ... we have missed your insults. Please PM me your best insult like last time.

BTW: if you use a non-mega-power brick, the charging pad doesn't melt. Sure it takes a bit longer to charge, but that really doesn't matter given most people charge overnight.

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mathew said..


You're back... where have you been ? ... we have missed your insults. Please PM me your best insult like last time.

Huh? I have never PM'd anyone insults, and I don't believe I have ever PM'd you. You must have me mixed up with someone else. Maybe you get lots of insulting PMs? I have never got any.

On the new Garmin GPS tech.... all the 3rd party reviews are saying they are the best accuracy GPS they have tested. Probably not of benefit to Windsurfing as the benefits are typically in difficult environments (large structures shadowing satellites) and windsurfing is typically not. But evidently more than just marketing.

DCRainmaker's idea of high accuracy tho? Man's just flying through buildings and this is hardly Tokyo.


If you don't repeat the selling points of the brand, you don't get the next product. And if your jam is reviewing products, you better be on their right side.

Garmin's own website says: "Dual-frequency systems can achieve accuracy within about +/- 2 meters or 6 feet under ideal conditions versus the +/- 3 meters or 10 feet accuracy of other models.". support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A

What yall buy doesn't matter to me as long as I've warned you not to believe in marketing fairytales.

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JulienLe said..
DCRainmaker's idea of high accuracy tho? Man's just flying through buildings and this is hardly Tokyo.


If you don't repeat the selling points of the brand, you don't get the next product. And if your jam is reviewing products, you better be on their right side.

Garmin's own website says: "Dual-frequency systems can achieve accuracy within about +/- 2 meters or 6 feet under ideal conditions versus the +/- 3 meters or 10 feet accuracy of other models.". support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A

What yall buy doesn't matter to me as long as I've warned you not to believe in marketing fairytales.

If you look at the data presented across multiple reviews of newer Garmin devices with the daul frequency GPS on DC Rainmaker, there is a trend of all of them to have better representation of the actual tracks followed then other devices without that technology. Maybe he made all the data up and there is no difference. I like his reviews and have read many. I'm as skeptical as the next engineer on reviews that are overly supportive of a brand. I don;t see a trend of him being supportive of Garmin. In fact he has been quite negative on some Garmin products.

I'm not sure why you are so negative on large corporate companies and assume they are buying out all the reviews of their products. I used to work for myself making some Automotive Electrical products. I know what it is like to make low volume electronics well before COVID. It would be much tougher now. Now I work for a large "corporate" medical device manufacturer. I spend most of my time lately sourcing alternate parts for existing designs since COVID. The company I work for has some clout in the industry and is still facing challenges. A low volume like yourself is going to be really struggling. My company for a new product, builds and tests more devices before we go to market then you will ever make in total production. There is a reason why large corporates can provide reliable products and back them up with after sales service. But they do make them to a specific market, and in the case of Garmin, windsurfing is not it. They don't care to support such a small market that requires specific features. Having said that. I am more than satisfied with my Garmin products in use with windsurfing. I don't personally have the need for what the windsurfing devices provide above the Garmin.... I won't be breaking any records.... just my own... if I am lucky! I've viewed enough GPS tracks in many sports to recognise bad data when I see it. I think a large proportion of those using GPS while windsurfing are similar to me... but there is a small proportion who value accuracy above all else that impose these requirements on all on the GPSTC. That would be more easy to take if there were products readily available that were as simple, functional and reliable as something you can walk into a local sporting store to buy, but that is far from the case.

Anyway, it was you who got in here to dish on the new Garmin GPS tech. I just mentioned it as it may be worth the extra cash. Maybe it is better for windsurfing. Probably not (since most windsurfing locations have excellent Satellite coverage). If you want to throw stones at other competitive products to yours, you should make sure yours is perfect.

On top of:
"If you want to throw stones at other competitive products to yours, you should make sure yours is perfect."

I have also received this excellent message:
"I've told you before it's in your best interest to keep off these Seabreeze forums. I have one of your mini motions but I am fast loosing interest in it due to your comments on Seabreeze."

And I'm happy to remind you both that I'm allowed opinions despite making another product. I don't expect people to read this and think they need a Motion, I expect them to read this and understand that multiband shouldn't carry much weight in their device selection, whatever it is.

I've also been critical of the rushed uBlox 9, of ST completely missing Teseo, of Sony's ultra-low-power tricks, of Sony's "25Hz" chipset that is stuck at 1Hz since its broad release a year ago, of the idea that any corrective measure will help weak receivers in handheld devices. There's a reason you don't see RTK smartwatches.

I will buy the mini motion back off that person, plenty of others want them, already got a waiting list for the next batch

I think it's good you participate on here Julien, we wouldn't had the mini motion developed as a low cost solution for speed sailing if you hadn't, that device used along with Andrew's app for the Garmin, has kept many people in the sport

I'm not here to tell you what you can or can't do here Julien. If you want to put down another company's product when you have never used or tested the technology or product yourself, that is your business. I have no reason to respect your opinion over someone who actually tested the product and doesn't have an axe to grind against multi-national corporates like you do. You are welcome to do that, but you should not be surprised if someone takes a swipe at you in return.

Aside from that, the Garmin products are designed to be multisports. I have had times when my Garmin wandered 30-50m off the road into the bush when riding through canyons and caused me to not match a segment in Strava (if it didn't happen on Strava it didn't happen!!). The evidence from reviewers is that this is improved with this new technology, so I will take my chances on reviews from people who actually test this and found it much improved.

I've never made a claim that your product is not great for windsurfing accuracy. Unfortunately you get no on water feedback, or other functions (smartwatch stuff), simple automatic uploads, local support, easy to buy locally, reliability over many years of daily use, and a bunch of other things I value much more than windsurfing accuracy.... and I have had no issues with windsurfing accuracy with Garmin products. I've not tested some of the other options like Coros, Suunto, Fitbit, Wahoo etc. but I am sure they are similar to Garmin.

I test many chipsets. It's kind of an interest of mine. You know, in case one proved better than others. And from my trials, this isn't worth it.

I'd love to announce a brilliant new chipset that is going to revolutionize handheld devices. So far, it's all been disappointing.

I have first-hand experience of big companies sending free watches to my users, some participation for each sale, extras for testimonials and more. I don't see why it would be any different for the best known reviewers.

Keep going, Julien. We all benefit from your work.

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segler said..
Keep going, Julien. We all benefit from your work.

Ditto, the GPS sailing community benefits from your knowledge, skill and persistence in designing and manufacturing ,cost effective, fit for purpose, GPS sailing devices during a pandemic and it's associated supply chain issues.

Don't let that minority of those with eyes, yet cannot see, deter you or stop you posting on this forum.

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JulienLe said..
I test many chipsets. It's kind of an interest of mine. You know, in case one proved better than others. And from my trials, this isn't worth it.

I'd love to announce a brilliant new chipset that is going to revolutionize handheld devices. So far, it's all been disappointing.

I have first-hand experience of big companies sending free watches to my users, some participation for each sale, extras for testimonials and more. I don't see why it would be any different for the best known reviewers.

Have you tested the chipset being used in the new Garmin devices with multi-channel? Have you tested a Garmin device with this tech? Have you seen any evidence that DC Rainmaker is biasing his reviews? He states up front at the start of each review how he got the device he is testing (supplied by vendor or purchased). He is very transparent about his affiliations. I could show you several negative reviews on Garmin products that he did when Garmin provided the sample for test.

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vosadrian said..
Have you tested the chipset being used in the new Garmin devices with multi-channel? Have you tested a Garmin device with this tech? Have you seen any evidence that DC Rainmaker is biasing his reviews? He states up front at the start of each review how he got the device he is testing (supplied by vendor or purchased). He is very transparent about his affiliations. I could show you several negative reviews on Garmin products that he did when Garmin provided the sample for test.

It's a moot point anyhow Adrian. The possible 'increased accuracy' that are talking about is positional data.

Doppler data is the standard for speed accuracy unless one goes to very much more expensive and complex RTK type devices.

Positional data was rejected long ago by all the experts in favour of the far more reliable Doppler data for use in speed competitions.

tbwonder's Garmin watch App is an excellent on the water feedback aid, which is what this thread is about.

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sailquik said..

vosadrian said..
Have you tested the chipset being used in the new Garmin devices with multi-channel? Have you tested a Garmin device with this tech? Have you seen any evidence that DC Rainmaker is biasing his reviews? He states up front at the start of each review how he got the device he is testing (supplied by vendor or purchased). He is very transparent about his affiliations. I could show you several negative reviews on Garmin products that he did when Garmin provided the sample for test.

It's a moot point anyhow Adrian. The possible 'increased accuracy' that are talking about is positional data.

Doppler data is the standard for speed accuracy unless one goes to very much more expensive and complex RTK type devices.

Positional data was rejected long ago by all the experts in favour of the far more reliable Doppler data for use in speed competitions.

tbwonder's Garmin watch App is an excellent on the water feedback aid, which is what this thread is about.

If the positional data is more accurate, than a non-doppler recording GPS device (such as smart watches) would give more accurate speed since the source of speed is the distance between 2 positional points divided by the time (which is very accurate), so any speed error in a positional device is almost entirely from positional error. This may be useful for some who do not wish to use a Doppler device and since people use GPS devices windsurfing outside the governance of the GPSTC, that is not a moot point. I personally have been very happy with my non-doppler device for years, but for some buying a new device, perhaps it is worth the extra $$. Even for those on GPSTC using these devices for feedback, it may be worth the extra $$ if it improves the quality of the feedback data. Of course that remains to be seen. There is evidence of it improving accuracy in built up environments. I suspect the benefit would be less on open water.

Aside from this, that has nothing to do with the discussion Julien started. He came in here to "warn" people about the evil inaccurate marketing used by large corporations in compeition with himself. This discussion is relevenat to that since he has not tested the product he has claimed does not meet its marketing claim (and has an axe to grind against any large corporation).

I have tried this anticipated chipset both on its own and in another watch. I have also tried uBlox 9, uBlox 10, ST Teseo IV, Allystar HD8, Allystar HD9 and Sony CXD5610 recently.

I didn't say not to buy a Garmin. I said not to put too much weight on multiband in watches. Like, if you're happy with your current watch, there's no need to change.

Timing circuitry has gotten extremely accurate while remaining really cheap. Positional accuracy is the problem. If speed is calculated from positional data, it is noisy. Max speeds are usually unrealistically too high.

Doppler speeds use the timing circuits, not the positional calculations, and are typically much more accurate. K888 states that doppler speed calculations even typically include kalman filtering.

K888 has also stated, from his studies, that pretty much all modern GPS chipsets measure speeds with doppler, but many (or most) of them record the speeds from positional data. To me this is crazy.

K888 examined a FIT file I sent him from my Timex Ironman GPS watch. He saw that my FIT file contained speed data taken from doppler, and recorded as such in the file. The Timex Connect app shows the max speed from these data, but Strava ignores speed numbers in my FIT file and calculates max speed from positional data; this max speed is always 10-20% higher and is not even realiistic.

I sent Strava an email asking them to change their programming to use speed numbers if the upload file already contains them.

GoldenCheetah does indeed use the speed numbers in the FIT file. I don't know about other apps.

You can read K888's stuff here:

logiqx.github.io/gps-guides/
logiqx.github.io/gps-guides/sessions/contacts/marr/

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[b]vosadrian said....
(and has an axe to grind against any large corporation).

You are grinding one HUGE axe in your posts.

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JulienLe said..
I didn't say not to buy a Garmin. I said not to put too much weight on multiband in watches. Like, if you're happy with your current watch, there's no need to change.

Perhaps you should have said that instead of this (in response to my post on the new Garmin GPS tech):

"They can't even bother to do one frequency band right. And this would require double everything to be done well: antenna, amplifier, filter, receiver................................................ Marketing again."