I didn't see this posted yet so here goes.


Picture posted by Windsurfing TV on Instagram which was taken at the North / Mystic (North Actionsports Group) HQ in the Netherlands.

www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/building-the-next-generation-of-windsurf-sails
News item posted in Surfers today talking abiut bringing America's cup sail fibring and moulding tech to the smaller scale Windsurfing world. Item written by Elevate Stoke.

Elevate Stoke website (below)showing a picture of the sail moulding machine.

All seems pretty recent. Is this all April's fool or is North Actionsports Group relaunching NS with some exclusive sail moulding tech?

(...and pitting it against competitors at DuoTone.. who are just cashing in on the NS heritage by relaunching sails like SuperStar etc)



If true by the way this would be a win for the windsurfing industry seeing the influx of new tech and investment. And if true makes me wonder what amount of cash they'd throw at it and who'd they sign.. starting of course with riders already on the Mystic team

Windsurf market isn't ready for these, I cant imagine these sails will be cheap, people complain about sale prices already, also what happens when you damage one? i'm sure local sailmakers wont have a clue how to repair them or even get the material to repair them.

We might see them on a speed coarse but that probably will be the only place for a long time.

The picture is of wave sails though...

I'm not seeing anything about North. An engineering company is talking about their 3D vacuum table - nice. And a windsurf sail manufacturer wanted it. They don't name them. Stock photo of North (which never went away as Duotone is same thing) has made people think we're getting 2022 North 3Dprinted membrane sails?I dunno seems a bit of supposition here

The following is a WindsurfingTV interview with North Sails from 2016.

Is this what North are going to bring to the market?

The real North is already back with a windwing, foils, boards and kites.

www.northkb.com/en/products/foils/wings/nova-wing

Duotone is part of Boards and More and was never the real North but instead when it was "North.." a licensed brand name. That is over.

This is the real North issued product:www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=36715.0

www.realwatersports.com/products/2021-north-nova-wing

It's not just an old article is it?

North introduced those 3D molded sails many years ago but I don't think they went into production. There was some talk about prohibitive cost.

Maybe they're revisiting it.

Be prepared.....

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RichardG said..
The real North is already back with a windwing, foils, boards and kites.

www.northkb.com/en/products/foils/wings/nova-wing

Duotone is part of Boards and More and was never the real North but instead when it was "North.." a licensed brand name. That is over.

This is the real North issued product:www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=36715.0

www.realwatersports.com/products/2021-north-nova-wing

The real north?? Isn't the brand it's designer and riders? For me duotone is the real North with Kai Hopf...

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Doby1q said..

RichardG said..
The real North is already back with a windwing, foils, boards and kites.

www.northkb.com/en/products/foils/wings/nova-wing

Duotone is part of Boards and More and was never the real North but instead when it was "North.." a licensed brand name. That is over.

This is the real North issued product:www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=36715.0

www.realwatersports.com/products/2021-north-nova-wing

The real north?? Isn't the brand it's designer and riders? For me duotone is the real North with Kai Hopf...

The real North is the late Lowell North, may his memory be a blessing. This is North not a licensed brand, as far as I can tell. Kai Hopf was good when he designed for Bombora, the upside down emu, and Sailworks and is I am sure is still today when he was North and now as Duotone. Duotone sails are good I am sure just as North was good when Ezzy designed them to World Cup and international success for Ken Winner, Ian Boyd, Dave Kalama, Rohan Cudmore and Dave Sheen. Kai Hopf is no longer North but Duotone sail designer. It is a hard market, highly competitive, many good sailmakers and I hope the reformulated North does well.

Correction to above while he was on the Bombora team and Sailworks later I am advised by a reliable source that Kai Hopf never designed sails for either outfit. Apologies.

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RichardG said..
Correction to above while he was on the Bombora team and Sailworks later I am advised by a reliable source that Kai Hopf never designed sails for either outfit. Apologies.

No apologies necessary. More (and accurate) knowledge is a good thing. Thanks for making the correction.

www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/building-the-next-generation-of-windsurf-sails

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MProject04 said..
I didn't see this posted yet so here goes.


Picture posted by Windsurfing TV on Instagram which was taken at the North / Mystic (North Actionsports Group) HQ in the Netherlands.

It's real and Pieter Bijl (guy on the left) has been teamed up with North Sails since he left Angulo and Gun Sails. With a small team they've been spotted testing wave and race sails on several spots in the Netherlands for over a year now. Haven't seen the sails myself but from what I've heared these sails are next level quality and performamce wise.

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sanded said..
www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/building-the-next-generation-of-windsurf-sails

some very bold claims in there.
Like half the weight of the lightest sails on the market?
so that means North are making a 4 batten 4.7m wave sail that weighs 1.2kg?
really?
I guess we will have to wait and see if 3di is any better than good laminated sailcloth.
Membrane isnt. Like all these things, it seems like a good idea until you actually start to drill into the details and find out its a triumph of marketing over reality.

When they reach their targets it would be awesome and it is great that NS invest in our sport again. Laminated sail means less seams, less panel overlaps. The used thin ply tapes also gives them the ability to decrease the material thickness in certain areas which will also help to bring the weight down. Very cool. I mean the other sail designers have to use the standard materials on the market and aren't able to create their own sail cloth in one piece without adding seams and weight. The technology definitely adds some new degree of freedom to the designer. Very excited to see what the will finally bring into market.

Call me when they are 5 years old and still in one piece.

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sheddweller said..
some very bold claims in there.
Like half the weight of the lightest sails on the market?

Using the North Sails parent company products like their 3Di thin ply technology, it is entirely possible they can make the BODY of the sail half the weight for the same strength and tear resistance.

The devil in the detail though is that battens all weigh the same, webbing and reinforcements all weigh the same, hardware all weighs the same, window material weighs the same, luff sock material will probably be the same to get the same characteristics. How much of these things make up the weight of the sail?

I think 3Di sails will be fantastic, however you do need to weigh up the marketing claims against what is achievable in the real world.

It's time for a paradigm shift in windsurfing sail material. Monofilm has been the go to material since the early 90s. It's great for making stable foils, however it's relatively heavy and degrades (goes brittle) over time in sunlight. It will be interesting to see what North come up with.

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P.C_simpson said..
Windsurf market isn't ready for these, I cant imagine these sails will be cheap, people complain about sale prices already, also what happens when you damage one? i'm sure local sailmakers wont have a clue how to repair them or even get the material to repair them.

We might see them on a speed coarse but that probably will be the only place for a long time.

True the price always plays a big role when it comes to end consumer decision about choosing one sail instead of another one.

However, what would you pay for a sail that is twice (keeping myself on the safe side here) stronger and lighter than other top end competidors products?

Also repair these sails is easy as sunday morning, no sail maker is needed as these are composite sails so much closer to an epoxy board than a standard sail, a simple (specific) adhesive patch will do the trick, of course depending on the extension of the damage.

I think they will be pretty popular in race course and foil as you say, but I can also see a market for wave riding, from what I've heard the handling on sail that weight half of a normal one is outstanding either while surfing or jumping.

Hopefully not long to go before the market can give us some real feedback on them!

And yeah..don't get fooled by the profile pic, have been a windsurfer for almost decade in my early days, but moved to the "dark side" a while ago..

What a load of rubbish.

I use the S1 pro from a few years back and they are light. Not as powerful as some sails out there but noticeably light.

If these came in nearly the same weight I'd be surprised.

They also look flat and boring, can't see through the membrane as they are full carbon, which you really don't need for strength.

I'll bet $5 to anyone out there who reckons these sails will be out this year.

Why would you say that is a load of rubbish?

Have you got more detailed informations to rely on or you just like to bring down the hype on technical innovation in our sports?

This is something we only see on SY sail boat, I can't wait to see what will do on WS sail.

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Jethrow said..

sheddweller said..
some very bold claims in there.
Like half the weight of the lightest sails on the market?

Using the North Sails parent company products like their 3Di thin ply technology, it is entirely possible they can make the BODY of the sail half the weight for the same strength and tear resistance.

The devil in the detail though is that battens all weigh the same, webbing and reinforcements all weigh the same, hardware all weighs the same, window material weighs the same, luff sock material will probably be the same to get the same characteristics. How much of these things make up the weight of the sail?

I think 3Di sails will be fantastic, however you do need to weigh up the marketing claims against what is achievable in the real world.

And this is from a man who knows what he's talking about when it come to sails.

Dave Russell made molded Oceanic sails in the 80s. I still have a couple of those. Kevlar and very light.

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stonny said..

Jethrow said..

sheddweller said..
some very bold claims in there.
Like half the weight of the lightest sails on the market?

Using the North Sails parent company products like their 3Di thin ply technology, it is entirely possible they can make the BODY of the sail half the weight for the same strength and tear resistance.

The devil in the detail though is that battens all weigh the same, webbing and reinforcements all weigh the same, hardware all weighs the same, window material weighs the same, luff sock material will probably be the same to get the same characteristics. How much of these things make up the weight of the sail?

I think 3Di sails will be fantastic, however you do need to weigh up the marketing claims against what is achievable in the real world.

And this is from a man who knows what he's talking about when it come to sails.

here is some more info about the technology used.

Definitely sounds good, i wont be standing at the head of the line to be the first customer though. Seen to many next great things fall flat on their face before! Will be interesting to see what types of sails they release, price points and longevity!

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Kitekeeper said..

here is some more info about the technology used.

Interesting. Looks like they make their larger sails with windows for telltales on the headsail and above the boom as well.

Wondering if the matching performance mast can handle the heat and stress of being rigged on the beach in the sun, as I've seen one fail recently that way. The black sail isn't going to help, but I guess Point 7 has something figured out.

Looks like we will be able to see a prototype in the flesh soon.

North Sail Sydney is hosting an open day at their loft in Mona Vale on the 3rd of July and they got a sail for the expo!

Everyone is welcome to come around and check it out, will post more info soon.

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Kitekeeper said..
Looks like we will be able to see a prototype in the flesh soon.

North Sail Sydney is hosting an open day at their loft in Mona Vale on the 3rd of July and they got a sail for the expo!

Everyone is welcome to come around and check it out, will post more info soon.

3rd july has come and gone, any update on this comeback?

Also, just saw this on insta looks like a race and wave sale

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cald said..

Kitekeeper said..
Looks like we will be able to see a prototype in the flesh soon.

North Sail Sydney is hosting an open day at their loft in Mona Vale on the 3rd of July and they got a sail for the expo!

Everyone is welcome to come around and check it out, will post more info soon.

3rd july has come and gone, any update on this comeback?

Also, just saw this on insta looks like a race and wave sale

Was called off due to covid outbreak, I am still keen to see them!

This week a 4 page interview with Peter was published in the Dutch windsurfmag Motion. I've picked out the most important stuff and translated it to English.

How do you know where to place the fibers?
Placement is determined using force calculations which take downhaul tension, mast stiffness and wind pressure into account. The North 3Di design program has had extra software code added to work with the forces the boom generates.

What's so good about this technology?
The biggest advantage is that the sail is truly made of one piece. Unlike any other sail the fibers run from the bottom to the top of the sail. Even integrating the batten pockets. Adding material or reinforcements in corners, along the foot of the sail or at the clew isn't needed anymore. It's all integrated in the lay-up of the sail. This means we don't have thin or thick patches but the reinforcement patches spread out. Only where needed material is added. The technology is advanced to a point that the lay-up supports the bending of the mast. This means the sail can deliver power low down while adding dynamic stability. The result is that less battens are needed and the windrange is increased.

Are there any disadvantages?
Besides some extra R&D work there are none. We have to take into account that the window isn't 3Di. We use either X-ply or monofilm. But due to the fact that the seams aren't integrated with the batten pockets it's a simple task for any sailmaker to replace the window.

All things considered a 3Di sail is lighter, stronger and holds it's shape better compared to a normal sail. Plus there is less waste during the production process. The only downside for the consumer is the price, but you get a special product in return.

Can you give a price indication?
Prices will be slightly higher than normal sails, but it will depend on production numbers. We're aiming at current membrane sail market prices.

Recently you introduced your first product the Wave. Can you give some details?
We wanted to keep it simple with the name. It's a brutal sail with sub 2 kg weight for a 4.2. You can throw the sail around without feeling any momentum. The 3Di material has a somewhat cloth feel but once it fills with wind it instantly builds tension, stability and keeps it's intended profile.

In the development stage we had a challenge with using a mold designed for 80 m2 yachtsails. So a new special windsurfmold was developed. This kicked everything into high gear.

Besides wave sails what advantages does this technology mean for other disciplines?
The advantages only get better as the sail size increases. With foiling you will have a lighter sail which is easier and will fly earlier. With slalom sails you will get faster acceleration and easier handling during the gybes as well as a better response, more stability and control. With freeride sails you can't use the excuse that you don't want to use a 8 m2 sail because it's to heavy. Our 8.2 m2 freeride is lighter compared to other brands 5.3 wave sails.

Most development is done on the race sails. How does that translate?
We found a way to incorporate the luff sleeve into the sail without using seams. The fibers we use for the sleeve flow into the fibers we use for the sail body. It's a true unibody sail with an air camber system and 100% unique battens. But that's only the tip of the iceberg.

What's more to expect?
We're starting with a complete range of sails. But since you can't build sails without masts we also developed those. The masts are a collaboration with Australian CST Composites specially designed for our 3Di designs. Besides that we're going to release 2 extensions also designed to work perfect with our sails. In the long term booms are also expected.