All i heard was 18 minutes of whining by someone very fortunate enough (and naive enough) to be able to play the new latest greatest gear churn game $$$ poor lost soul :(
If he spent the same time and money and energy on getting new and old punters back in the game his/business would be booming!

From a 'real' professional in the industry this is a much more positive, solution and action ...

Heres what Goya is planning.....basically a place to learn/rent/teach and grow new participants...
Smart grow the sport, grow your customer base, and not rely on gear churn as way to make money.
Want to sell more steaks ..get more people into your steak restaurant ..don't need to keep changing the menu all the time!

couldn't post the link ...
extract ...from USA website , linked on book face

Winds of Change: Goya Windsurfing to Open New Community Hub in Bingen
If you've driven down the main drag in Bingen, Washington, you've likely seen the new construction in the works! Maybe you're wondering what's going on-we were too-so we got some answers for you!Goya Windsurfing, if all goes well, will open in the Fall of 2024! The new showroom will be open to the public, offering windsurfing lessons and wholesale gear from beginner to pros.We spoke with Francisco Goya about his newest venture..

Who is Francisco Goya?
Francisco went to high school in Buenos Aires, Argentina. After graduation, upon turning 18, he left for Maui to live and pursue his dream. Having segued from skateboarding to surfing to windsurfing, Goya, along with some close friends, honed in on his passion for customizing gear, while riding for different shapers and designers, helping with their research and development. Just five years later, in 1994, he and his pals started Quatro. "It was those passionate windsurfers from all over the world who bought our gear and were stoked with the sport, that made it possible to start our own brand." In 2000, he became the windsurfing champion of the world.Goya sees the windsurfing industry as a community project. "We are all learning how to improve the sport. One thing I'm sure of is that it will take a lot more than one brand and one vision to really take windsurfing to where it deserves to be." He is a firm believer that brands need to collaborate to support each other.The new "surf mill" will manufacture surfboards, kiteboards, SUP's and wind boards, for winging, foiling and downwinding action.

When asked about the best places for wind sports, Goya tells us it is Maui, Europe, and the Gorge, on the Washington side, that has the best wind. His favorite spots to get some action are the Hatchery, Stevenson and Bingen!
The team plans to create events for the community and will need investors, grant money, and permits along the way. He emphatically states that he wants no barriers to learning the sport, and will offer community services to schools and the underprivileged as well as to seniors wanting to try something new!Why Windsurfing?Francisco describes windsurfing as the cheapest form of sailing, and believes it not only has the ability to remove one's fear of water, but connects us to others. "Diversity adds value to a community-we are able to meet people from all over the world, exposing us to different cultures and languages."Goya sees the potential for windsurfing to become the most popular water sport in the world. "The more I travel, the more people I see enjoying windsurfing from all ages and social groups-it is a sport that needs only water and a little wind."You can feel his passion for the sport when he speaks-he closes our conversation with, "I have always been able to find my answers in the water".

Taavi said..





Not sure what Marios' (author of the above video) general windsurfing skills were, but looks like somehow he ended up putting a huge cambered race sail on a freeride setup and then blamed a freeride board!? At least all his examples in the video are with huge sails.

My experience back in the day was totally different. After just a handful of days of learning I was totally comfortable with my setup, which although not competitive in foiling comps, was so much fun to ride. Who cares if it wasn't the most efficient setup, it was still wonderful to learn something new. Only good memories from that period. The fact that I have a slalom board in the video below instead of a freeride board (10 cm length difference) is not really important, the freeride boards that I tried were pretty much on a par.



And yes, it was fun in almost non-existent wind as well - absolutely no need for special and huge and complicated rigs.

Carantoc said..
Electric motor assist would seem like the thing everything else has going on.

Just enough to keep the forward momentum on those superlight days or kick you onto the plane on the marginal days ?

Foot button on the deck / push button on the boom or flow sensor in the hull to make it automatic ?

Motor integrated into the board jetski style, so no extra drag from a propellor ?

Must be able to fit an e-foil motor to a fin and give it a go ? Surely somebody has done it ?

Kit3kat said..






Could have a lima wave generator. Charge the battery while going crosswind or while planning fast. Battery lasts maybe 1min.then use batterypower to get planning. Where daggerboard would be is the switch to activate the planning assist which will autoswitch off after 15 seconds. Just posting this here to get patent rights in the future.

Kit3kat said..




Could have a lima wave generator. Charge the battery while going crosswind or while planning fast. Battery lasts maybe 1min.then use batterypower to get planning. Where daggerboard would be is the switch to activate the planning assist which will autoswitch off after 15 seconds. Just posting this here to get patent rights in the future.

Imax1 said..
^^^It's easy to fix , just use 17 kg EPS instead of 13 kg or use another layer of glass or carbon. The problem is that we are weight obsessed. We are our own worst enemy.For an extra one kg on a large board , we could have both and extra reinforcements to stop the all too common delam issues. Unless you are elite or doing loops in the air , most wouldn't notice the difference. Yet we happily pay the extra $1000 to buy the lighter much more fragile version of a board to save 700 gms in weight. But you do get PRO , ELITE or carbon printed on top of the board. I've recently learned that shops sell more of the expensive fragile versions than the more robust versions of the same board. That's crazy. Nobody wants ROBUST printed on their board. It must be worth it to point out all the severe damage on your board to your mates as apposed to the guy with the cheaper model only having scratches on it.

Imax1 said..
^^^It's easy to fix , just use 17 kg EPS instead of 13 kg or use another layer of glass or carbon. The problem is that we are weight obsessed. We are our own worst enemy.For an extra one kg on a large board , we could have both and extra reinforcements to stop the all too common delam issues. Unless you are elite or doing loops in the air , most wouldn't notice the difference. Yet we happily pay the extra $1000 to buy the lighter much more fragile version of a board to save 700 gms in weight. But you do get PRO , ELITE or carbon printed on top of the board. I've recently learned that shops sell more of the expensive fragile versions than the more robust versions of the same board. That's crazy. Nobody wants ROBUST printed on their board. It must be worth it to point out all the severe damage on your board to your mates as apposed to the guy with the cheaper model only having scratches on it.

choco said..








The production boards available today in my opinion are quite heavy, I still use a 2006 falcon 131 79cmW 245L and it weighs in at 6.7kg, the bottom shape is still perfect and this is my most used board, the current equivalent duotone 130 slalom comes in at 7.30kg.
I was told a few years ago that only two 131's were imported into Australia, maybe this was a team rider board? I purchased it 2nd hand 15 years ago.

hardie said..In the right conditions its hard to beat windsurfing. Removing the fin and adding a Foil is the radical big improvement for light and moderate winds in relation to efficiency and drag elimination, but windfoiling isnt necessarily very user friendly. I much prefer windsurfing over Windfoiling. Winging is another evolution of windsurfing, and it significantly reduces drag and increases efficiency in light to moderate conditions, and is much more user friendly than Windfoiling. The Wing is so much lighter and easier to use than a windsurfing rig, which makes the sport easier for older men like me and women in general.

If you love ocean downwinding, windfoiling works so much better than winging or windsurfing.
We can carve harder, go faster deep downwind for more distance and fly back upwind quicker.
It does take a big TOW commitment and good gear to get it dialed - but I reckon those few who've cracked the code would agree that there's nothing better

hardie said..
Overall I think windsurfing is perfect/brilliant as it is.

In the right conditions its hard to beat windsurfing.

Kit3kat said..




Could have a lima wave generator. Charge the battery while going crosswind or while planning fast. Battery lasts maybe 1min.then use batterypower to get planning. Where daggerboard would be is the switch to activate the planning assist which will autoswitch off after 15 seconds. Just posting this here to get patent rights in the future.

geoITA said..
.... This results in bottom shape changing after just very few sessions, expecially in fast riding boards, and developing a "spoon" shape (negative rocker curve, concave) under hull just where it would be important to keep the right shape....

...once crushed it stays crushed, even if just slightly so, but we are talking few/10 mm or so, which is enough to impair high speed performance and control...

Chris 249 said..
As I tried to make clear, I completely understand why people choose to have lots of sails and as you said it's up to the buyer, but the point is that the claim "modern sails have wider wind ranges" has been made for decades on end and yet there seems to be no evidence that it's really happening, or that modern windsurf sails have a wide range compared to other sails.

mathew said..






I think what you are observing is a reasonable assessment based on the evidence you presented. But I dont think it is accurate.

[ You noted "decades" which implies 80's to 90's era. In that era camber-inducers were only just invented by Gaastra. Full-length battens were still flimsy fibreglass or even wood. ]

A 6m slalom sail from that era could be used [ obviously depending on body weight ] from about 8kn to about 22kn. It didn't really matter what board you used because the sail didn't generate much top-speed. Due to their shape, they were typically quite powerful on the low-end, but sail deformation limited their top-end. The sail-deformation limited their use.

A 6m slalom sail from nowadays typically doesn't have good low-end ( its why formula-sails were invented because _area_ is key ), you use them from about 12kn. Those same sails - even a freeride sail - is quite capable of being used in 35kn of wind. The sail doesn't deform much at all - the limiting factor is typically the person's ability to sheet-in.

Chris 249 said..




I agree that sail deformation limited the top end with the old sails and that the new ones have a vastly better top end. Manufacturers still seem to try to sell sailors just as many sails to cover the wind range. As your figures indicate, a lot of what it gained in top end handling with modern sails is lost due to their lower power at the bottom end.

I can't completely agree about your wind range figures since the wind range you quote for an ancient 6m slalom sail is way out of what I would have used at that time, and since I was top 20 at the slalom world titles at the time I wasn't particularly shyte. No one at the worlds or during the Aussie pro circuit at the time (which included Robby, Bjorn, Anders etc) would have used a 6m slalom sail in 8 knots because the lower wind limit was 15 knots and even in that a 7.8 or perhaps 7.3 was the standard sail.

Top end deformation and C of E shift were a problem, but that is to a significant extent a matter of technique, harness lines and back hand strength. Where those old sails did lose out, as we agree, was by having high aero drag that limited their top speed. I had an ex Pete Cabrinha Gaastra team 7.3 or 7.8 custom that had something like 7 camber inducers and it, and similar sails, actually seemed to have amazing stability - at the cost of having a tight leach and deep upper camber that reduced the top-end speed. It would never make it as a production sail because it was also extremely unforgiving through gybes, although personally that suited my style very nicely.

I'll also say that I'm very unsure how many people these days use a 6 in a true 35 knots. That is hitting well over 50 knots in the gusts. In such winds, people find it difficult walking, the water is covered in spume, things ashore are breaking, etc etc. I sail Sydney-Hobarts where we have sophisticated wind instruments so spend a lot of time getting real windspeed info and with respect, what many people call 35 knots is a wind that hits 35 knots for very short times at the peak of the gust. That is actually a true 20 knots, by meteorological definition. Some people may be capable of using a 6 in a real 35 knots, but not the average sailor in what I would call normal conditions, with normal chop and gusts.

kato said..






6.6 in 30kt yes.. Lots of times with wind measuring not just "I think it's that" The real issue is water state, open ocean not a chance . Flat water ..perfect.
My goto race sail was a NP 6.3 race sail 90s era. Had a range of 12-16 kts, super quick within that range and won a few races. My 6.6 was good in 17-25kts at Cervantes . YES the range has improved... in my opinion

mathew said..






That isn't quite how "elastic deformation" works - there are youtube videos which will explain it better than I ever could.

The shape certainly does change over time, but not that fast and usually not aggressively. It changes because the elasticity-limit of the material has been exceeded, which in the case of foam will be crushed.

If there was a major change to shape [ within the first few uses ], then the designs would take this into account. For example the first few uses of a sail causes the material to stretch somewhat - it is quite normal to have less-than-recommended downhaul for a few sessions.







Definitely agree that the material gets crushed over time - the material-limits are exceeded. Also agree that small changes to shape -particularly the rocker - will have some effect.

A solution to this but a few light passes of epoxy-paint will solve this problem. We change a ropes, tendons, and so on -> maintenance of other gear is usually required too.

Saying it another way -> the choice of materials does indeed ensure that changes to the shape do not occur easily. We could use foams which don't crush (aka staying in the elastic-deformation region of the material), but then the final board would be significantly heavier.

geoITA said..





Hi Mathew,
in fact, we are not talking about elastic deformation, not at all.
I know that shape changes with time, quite quickly. Few years ago I had one of my boards re-shaped because of this reason. I asked a well known Italian shaper to take care of that and we talked about the problem. He told me that even his better built custom boards were prone to bottom deformation after just a few sessions. So I lean toward giving credit to his words.
As for the effect of bottom deformation, it's not just "some effect". As long as you are flying on the fin over flat water, you will not sense it. But if you hit some chop the board will tend to "stick" (more or less) to the water and will need more energy to "unstick", making the ride harder.
And, no, it's not just "a few light passes of epoxy-paint" that will solve the problem, unless of course you accept sensible weight build up and loss of the bottom graphics.
My point is that 1) some more 100 gms are well worth in order to obtain a stable bottom shape, and 2) maybe adding the weight of say Airex C70.130 in place of the usual Airex C70.75 in the last 80 cms or so of the boards bottom (we are talking 100 -150 gms more, depending on foam thickness 3mm or 5mm and of course hull width) would be a better choice than adding the weight of "Carbon T-Stringers laminated deep into the EPS core in a T beam configuration".
Please be aware that the elastic limit has not much to do with "time".