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Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

A few of the "speed" orientated wingers here have taken to sticking a harness line on the wing and harnessing up. I don't wing, so can't comment on real effects, or how it changes the ride. Im making an educated guess there would also be some negative effects, but maybe thats an option?

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Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

I would go to a good sports doctor or PT and find out what is the problem with your back, and get it healed first. Wingfoil puts a lot of stress on your back since your back replaces the mast of a sail! Also have to rotate and twist your back while holding the wing. The back can take tremendous compressive forces (vertically), but it does not do well with rotational/twisting forces. As we get older the soft disks age and become more susceptible to tearing and rupturing. That is why I gave up golf, loved to drive the ball, then one day an ex Navy Seal at work walked by in obvious pain, he had ruptured a disk playing golf.

In the past I had back issues way before windsurfing and windfoiling, due to poor posture and miss-aligned vertebrae (have a long back), now roll my back and side of back every night on a black 6" diameter hard foam roller before going to bed on a very firm solid cotton futon. No back problems as long as I keep it up. But have stopped doing the rolling, and then started to feel minor back tension after doing something different, so got back to rolling back every night no matter what!

For windfoiling have always used a Dakine seat harness, first XT (left over from windsurfing) then a Reflex which is perfect, no back problems after 4 years. A seat harness put all the sail pressure on your hips, and they can handle it, but a waist harness will create a pressure point in your back.

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Subsonic said..

Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

A few of the "speed" orientated wingers here have taken to sticking a harness line on the wing and harnessing up. I don't wing, so can't comment on real effects, or how it changes the ride. Im making an educated guess there would also be some negative effects, but maybe thats an option?

I always use a harness (or a hook on the leash belt) when winging. Takes most of the strain of your arms and back. Long upwind down wind sessions are no problem.

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Ken767 said..

Subsonic said..

Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

A few of the "speed" orientated wingers here have taken to sticking a harness line on the wing and harnessing up. I don't wing, so can't comment on real effects, or how it changes the ride. Im making an educated guess there would also be some negative effects, but maybe thats an option?

I always use a harness (or a hook on the leash belt) when winging. Takes most of the strain of your arms and back. Long upwind down wind sessions are no problem.

But Ken don't you have to stand with your back somewhat twisted all the time when holding the wing to stay powered up harness or not?, of course excluding down wind swell riding. The spine was not designed for that from what I have read.

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Heubluemli said..
I have ridden very little toeside. My back was well trained and flexible.
It was probably just too many shear forces for too long.
Unfortunately, I now have a herniated disc.
Take care, especially those who wingfoil a lot! Wingfoiling is a new sport and there are no long-term experiences yet.
I think that the forces on the back during windsurf foiling are different and less harmful. Maybe I'm wrong. But this is how it is with my back.

That's why I'm switching back to windsurfing, but with a foil.
I love Greg Glazier's style."

The word on the beach about kite-foiling was that it was murder on your back, supposedly because of the upward pull on your spine. We'll see with wings, but the twist induced by the wing does not look good.

It does take surprisingly little to hurt your spine. Last year I did so windsurfing after a hour plus long slogging session. My fault. had not slogged in a long time and I forgot how to do it properly. On a bigg-ish board with a bigg-ish sail, with waist harness, I twisted my upper body in my attempts to gain ground. Result was back pain for more than month.

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Sandman1221 said..

Ken767 said..

Subsonic said..

Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

A few of the "speed" orientated wingers here have taken to sticking a harness line on the wing and harnessing up. I don't wing, so can't comment on real effects, or how it changes the ride. Im making an educated guess there would also be some negative effects, but maybe thats an option?

I always use a harness (or a hook on the leash belt) when winging. Takes most of the strain of your arms and back. Long upwind down wind sessions are no problem.

But Ken don't you have to stand with your back somewhat twisted all the time when holding the wing to stay powered up harness or not?, of course excluding down wind swell riding. The spine was not designed for that from what I have read.

No, it feels just like windsurfing when you're hooked in, everything is balanced, no twisting. But you need to switch feet each tack as you would windsurfing, many wingers don't and that is where the twist happens.

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Sandman1221 said..

Ken767 said..

Subsonic said..

Heubluemli said..

nerdycross said..
Who has started windfoiling then switched to wingfoiling but now reverting back to foiling with a sail , if so why .

I'm 56 years young :-)
Windsurfing for 38 years, never problems with backpain.
then moved to Wingfoil, 2 years.

Now back to Windsurf foiling because of hard backpain. Was wingfoiling last year for quite every day. too much it seams :-(
I think its because with time, the pressure point of the slick sls has moved back what caused a bad influebce to my back.
hope with windsurf foiling the pain will be less. want to foil again more than 4h at a good day...

A few of the "speed" orientated wingers here have taken to sticking a harness line on the wing and harnessing up. I don't wing, so can't comment on real effects, or how it changes the ride. Im making an educated guess there would also be some negative effects, but maybe thats an option?

I always use a harness (or a hook on the leash belt) when winging. Takes most of the strain of your arms and back. Long upwind down wind sessions are no problem.

But Ken don't you have to stand with your back somewhat twisted all the time when holding the wing to stay powered up harness or not?, of course excluding down wind swell riding. The spine was not designed for that from what I have read.

No, it feels just like windsurfing when you're hooked in, everything is balanced, no twisting. But you need to switch feet each tack as you would windsurfing, many wingers don't and that is where the twist happens.

Without a harness, your shoulders are parallel with the wing boom, right?, while your feet are at around a 90 degree angle on the board when heading crosswind, so it looks to me like they are always a little twisted, just saying

Windsurfing: the angle of a line that runs through both feet is off-set from the angle of the sail, but you do not have to twist your back because you can make your back arm shorter/longer to compensate for the sail being closer/farther away from your rear shoulder as you sheet in/out.

No twist when winging unless riding toe side.

Shouldn't be sheeting with the back hand windfoiling nor should you have appreciable bends in your elbows. Both indicate setup problems.

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Ken767 said..

I always use a harness (or a hook on the leash belt) when winging. Takes most of the strain of your arms and back. Long upwind down wind sessions are no problem.

Yes, i have a harness too. but i am foiling mostly in the waves. Next wek i have to go for a magnetic resonance imaging, so let?s see what?s the issue...Thanks for all the good tips