Some exciting slalom racing happening in Pozo. Foils consistently beating fins in men and women racing. Winds are not as nuclear as expected, which may be one reason for foil dominance. The foiling skills in the chop are amazing.

(Verse 1)
Yo, listen up, I got a tale to tell,
'Bout a sport that used to ride chop so well.
Fin slalom windsurfing, it had its day,
But now it's fading, like the dodo, it's slipped away.

Like a flightless bird, grounded on the shore,
Fin slalom windsurfing, it ain't soaring no more.
The game done changed, evolved, took a twist,
Foil windsurfing emerged and can't resist.

(Chorus)
Fin slalom, like the dodo, extinct it seems,
Foil windsurfing, riding high, chasing dreams.
The wind beneath the foil, lifting up to the sky,
Fin slalom, you had your time, now it's time to say goodbye.

(Verse 2)
Once upon a time, fins sliced through the sea,
Riders riding waves, feeling wild and free.
But then came the foils, hydrodynamic grace,
Flying above the water, a whole new chase.

No longer bound by gravity's hold,
HydroFoil windsurfing, breaking the mold.
The thrill of gliding, like a bird in flight,
Leaving fin slalom behind, it's out of sight.


(Bridge)
But let's not forget the legends who came before,
The pioneers who sailed the chop, wanting more.
They paved the way, pushed the sport to its peak,
Fin slalom, your legacy, we'll always speak.

(Verse 3)
So here's a toast to fin slalom's glorious past,
The battles on the water, forever they'll last.
But windsurfing evolves, like nature's own course,
HydroFoil's flight, a new wind to endorse.

As we ride the future, let's honor what's been,
Remember the roots and where we have been.
For fin slalom windsurfing, it may be gone,
But its spirit lives on, like a never-setting sun.


(Outro)
So as the winds of change blow across the sea,
We'll cherish the memories of what used to be.
Fin slalom, like the dodo, may be in the past,
But windsurfing's spirit will forever last.

Select to expand quote

Guru4 said..
(Verse 1)
Yo, listen up, I got a tale to tell,
'Bout a sport that used to ride chop so well.
Fin slalom windsurfing, it had its day,
But now it's fading, like the dodo, it's slipped away.

Like a flightless bird, grounded on the shore,
Fin slalom windsurfing, it ain't soaring no more.
The game done changed, evolved, took a twist,
Foil windsurfing emerged and can't resist.

(Chorus)
Fin slalom, like the dodo, extinct it seems,
Foil windsurfing, riding high, chasing dreams.
The wind beneath the foil, lifting up to the sky,
Fin slalom, you had your time, now it's time to say goodbye.

(Verse 2)
Once upon a time, fins sliced through the sea,
Riders riding waves, feeling wild and free.
But then came the foils, hydrodynamic grace,
Flying above the water, a whole new chase.

No longer bound by gravity's hold,
HydroFoil windsurfing, breaking the mold.
The thrill of gliding, like a bird in flight,
Leaving fin slalom behind, it's out of sight.


(Bridge)
But let's not forget the legends who came before,
The pioneers who sailed the chop, wanting more.
They paved the way, pushed the sport to its peak,
Fin slalom, your legacy, we'll always speak.

(Verse 3)
So here's a toast to fin slalom's glorious past,
The battles on the water, forever they'll last.
But windsurfing evolves, like nature's own course,
HydroFoil's flight, a new wind to endorse.

As we ride the future, let's honor what's been,
Remember the roots and where we have been.
For fin slalom windsurfing, it may be gone,
But its spirit lives on, like a never-setting sun.


(Outro)
So as the winds of change blow across the sea,
We'll cherish the memories of what used to be.
Fin slalom, like the dodo, may be in the past,
But windsurfing's spirit will forever last.

Got a tab?

Yeah it's so exciting PWA slalom has gone from 64 men entrants in slalom to 28 since foiling began.

Select to expand quote

Guru4 said..
(Verse 1)
Yo, listen up, I got a tale to tell,
'Bout a sport that used to ride chop so well.
Fin slalom windsurfing, it had its day,
But now it's fading, like the dodo, it's slipped away.

Like a flightless bird, grounded on the shore,
Fin slalom windsurfing, it ain't soaring no more.
The game done changed, evolved, took a twist,
Foil windsurfing emerged and can't resist.

(Chorus)
Fin slalom, like the dodo, extinct it seems,
Foil windsurfing, riding high, chasing dreams.
The wind beneath the foil, lifting up to the sky,
Fin slalom, you had your time, now it's time to say goodbye.

(Verse 2)
Once upon a time, fins sliced through the sea,
Riders riding waves, feeling wild and free.
But then came the foils, hydrodynamic grace,
Flying above the water, a whole new chase.

No longer bound by gravity's hold,
HydroFoil windsurfing, breaking the mold.
The thrill of gliding, like a bird in flight,
Leaving fin slalom behind, it's out of sight.


(Bridge)
But let's not forget the legends who came before,
The pioneers who sailed the chop, wanting more.
They paved the way, pushed the sport to its peak,
Fin slalom, your legacy, we'll always speak.

(Verse 3)
So here's a toast to fin slalom's glorious past,
The battles on the water, forever they'll last.
But windsurfing evolves, like nature's own course,
HydroFoil's flight, a new wind to endorse.

As we ride the future, let's honor what's been,
Remember the roots and where we have been.
For fin slalom windsurfing, it may be gone,
But its spirit lives on, like a never-setting sun.


(Outro)
So as the winds of change blow across the sea,
We'll cherish the memories of what used to be.
Fin slalom, like the dodo, may be in the past,
But windsurfing's spirit will forever last.

You should make an AI generated version with The Hilltop Hoods on vocals.

With Kanye on the beat.

Select to expand quote

AUS4 said..
Yeah it's so exciting PWA slalom has gone from 64 men entrants in slalom to 28 since foiling began.

Regardless of the number of entrants head to head racing in 20-30 kts has plenty of excitement. They are the best in the world. Their skill levels are amazing.

The best coverage by far . exciting racing. Nico doing a great job of bringing it straight to us.

Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Select to expand quote

BullroarerTook said..

Guru4 said..
(Verse 1)
Yo, listen up, I got a tale to tell,
'Bout a sport that used to ride chop so well.
Fin slalom windsurfing, it had its day,
But now it's fading, like the dodo, it's slipped away.

Like a flightless bird, grounded on the shore,
Fin slalom windsurfing, it ain't soaring no more.
The game done changed, evolved, took a twist,
Foil windsurfing emerged and can't resist.

(Chorus)
Fin slalom, like the dodo, extinct it seems,
Foil windsurfing, riding high, chasing dreams.
The wind beneath the foil, lifting up to the sky,
Fin slalom, you had your time, now it's time to say goodbye.

(Verse 2)
Once upon a time, fins sliced through the sea,
Riders riding waves, feeling wild and free.
But then came the foils, hydrodynamic grace,
Flying above the water, a whole new chase.

No longer bound by gravity's hold,
HydroFoil windsurfing, breaking the mold.
The thrill of gliding, like a bird in flight,
Leaving fin slalom behind, it's out of sight.


(Bridge)
But let's not forget the legends who came before,
The pioneers who sailed the chop, wanting more.
They paved the way, pushed the sport to its peak,
Fin slalom, your legacy, we'll always speak.

(Verse 3)
So here's a toast to fin slalom's glorious past,
The battles on the water, forever they'll last.
But windsurfing evolves, like nature's own course,
HydroFoil's flight, a new wind to endorse.

As we ride the future, let's honor what's been,
Remember the roots and where we have been.
For fin slalom windsurfing, it may be gone,
But its spirit lives on, like a never-setting sun.


(Outro)
So as the winds of change blow across the sea,
We'll cherish the memories of what used to be.
Fin slalom, like the dodo, may be in the past,
But windsurfing's spirit will forever last.

Got a tab?

Is that in Open G tuning ?

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..
Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Having them racing together is just silly.

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..

Paducah said..
Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Having them racing together is just silly.

Here we go again. The Youtube chat was full of non foilers complaining about them racing together. Funnily enough, they only complained when the foils were losing. ;)

Select to expand quote

Maddlad said..
Here we go again. The Youtube chat was full of non foilers complaining about them racing together. Funnily enough, they only complained when the foils were losing. ;)

Here we go again, again.

2017: Why foil? Fin is faster. (I was guilty of this one. First flight, I forgot all about speed.)
2019: Well, foil is better for course racing in light winds but only the lightweights will be fast. (As a lightweight: I wish.)
2021: Foil was faster only because the course was screwy and the marks were in wind shadows.
2022: Okay, foil is faster under 20 kts. But wait until we get to a really windy place. (Until NG got everyone's attention at Le Defi.)
2023: Why are we mixing foil and fin?

Both fin and foil are good in my book. Let the big dogs off the chains and we can find out who's fastest. Who knows - maybe this spurs some development on the fin side.

That's a pretty accurate timeline.
It's great that the 2 are racing each other. Otherwise we wouldn't know which is more competitive in all conditions.

These races will be remembered as the time when windsurfing underwent a significant change and we were able to witness it.

btw, can we give a shout out to Blanca Alabau? She's not exactly a strapping giant and she beat Sarah-Quita (who absolutely rips) while the later was on a fin. #yayteamsmallpeople

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..
Here we go again, again.

2017: Why foil? Fin is faster. (I was guilty of this one. First flight, I forgot all about speed.)
2019: Well, foil is better for course racing in light winds but only the lightweights will be fast. (As a lightweight: I wish.)
2021: Foil was faster only because the course was screwy and the marks were in wind shadows.
2022: Okay, foil is faster under 20 kts. But wait until we get to a really windy place. (Until NG got everyone's attention at Le Defi.)
2023: Why are we mixing foil and fin?

Both fin and foil are good in my book. Let the big dogs off the chains and we can find out who's fastest. Who knows - maybe this spurs some development on the fin side.

Foiling has saved PWA slalom. You would be very unlucky to get a no scoring event now.

2021 - The course was screwy, if we are taking Israel. No if and buts.

At Defi, its not a 90 degree wind, its slightly downwind/upwind. The upwind favours foils.
Since they 1st started using foils, the development curve has been massive. There is no way a 2019 set up would have won at Pozo.

Lets not get too carried away, Pozo was 6.8m/116l board for Jimmy Thieme, top fin only sailor. It wasn't 'Pozo' winds. 3rd bouy it was obviously light, Taty was leading by a decent distance until he got bogged down.

I was quite impressed with how the foils coped (mostly) with the swell, and the couple of crashes when they didnt.
There was some epic racing.

I still think it would be better to separate them, but there isnt the money in the sport, and at the moment its still exciting.

I'm certainly not anti-foiling, 3 days in a row for me on a 6.5m in a choppy high tide Poole Harbour, around 13-14 knots average wind. If on a fin it would have been 7.5 or 8.5m and no fun in the chop.

Looking forward to the next one, Sotovento I think. Lets have proper strong winds!

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..
btw, can we give a shout out to Blanca Alabau? She's not exactly a strapping giant and she beat Sarah-Quita (who absolutely rips) while the later was on a fin. #yayteamsmallpeople

Indeed. I mentioned on the other PWA thread on the general forum Blanca Alabau's smallest foil sail was 5m (4.6m fin sail, but doubt she used that). Roughly the same size as some of the sails the men were using. Top skills. She said she had done a lot of training with that kit, and it showed.

Sarah-Quita was still taller than Blanca standing on the top step of the podium.

Select to expand quote

Maddlad said..

duzzi said..

Paducah said..
Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Having them racing together is just silly.

Here we go again. The Youtube chat was full of non foilers complaining about them racing together. Funnily enough, they only complained when the foils were losing. ;)

Not sure what you mean by "here we go again". Having foil and fin together is like racing a Nacra 17 and a 49er together, it makes no sense. Nobody put different sailing classes together at the elite level other than the PWA. Even the Garda One Hour Classic, arguably a less then elite race with people of all skill entering, had foil and fin on different days this year.

And I find the main motivation for keeping foil and fin together embarrassing. Which one is faster? Fin or Foil? Last I checked good racing is about the athletes not the equipment. No surprise that there were a meager 28 entrants at POZO! It's the only venue in which fins have some chance, which means you need two sets of equipment to be competitive!

And besides, it is obvious that foil is faster. In the men division foil dominates. In the men division Pozo gave the only win, just in a final, for fin since 2019! And at POZO, foil does not dominate for the women only because the foiling skill of the fleet is still not as good as the men when wind goes above 25 knots or so.

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..

Maddlad said..

duzzi said..

Paducah said..
Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Having them racing together is just silly.

Here we go again. The Youtube chat was full of non foilers complaining about them racing together. Funnily enough, they only complained when the foils were losing. ;)

Not sure what you mean by "here we go again". Having foil and fin together is like racing a Nacra 17 and a 49er together, it makes no sense. Nobody put different sailing classes together at the elite level other than the PWA. Even the Garda One Hour Classic, arguably a less then elite race with people of all skill entering, had foil and fin on different days this year.

And I find the main motivation for keeping foil and fin together embarrassing. Which one is faster? Fin or Foil? Last I checked good racing is about the athletes not the equipment. No surprise that there were a meager 28 entrants at POZO! It's the only venue in which fins have some chance, which means you need two sets of equipment to be competitive!

And besides, it is obvious that foil is faster. In the men division foil dominates. In the men division Pozo gave the only win, just in a final, for fin since 2019! And at POZO, foil does not dominate for the women only because the foiling skill of the fleet is still not as good as the men when wind goes above 25 knots or so.

Nacra and 49er are two very different sailing craft which would be like suggesting we are comparing Moths and windfoils in the PWA. Windfoil and windsurf gear is close enough that, in practice, the same board and sail can be used for both (e.g. IQFoil, Formula boards, a number of "convertible" designs like my old Tillo). From the water and above, fin and foil boards are very similar in both board and rig. Someone from outside the sport would be hard-pressed to tell the difference other than small differences in board shape. Even a jetskier can tell the difference between a Nacra and 49er at a thousand meters (the Nacra offers two hulls to cut in front of).

PWA is not one design like the boats you mention but more like a developmental class. There are just some limitations on sail and board size more from the view of transport and gear costs. Development classes like the Moth and A-Cat introduced foils in mixed fleets until it became obvious that foils were quickly making prior designs obsolete. Classic fleets in both classes encourages older boats to remain in use but the best sailors and gear end up on the gear that goes fastest. If you want a "classic" fin class, realize that you are may be depriving yourself of the best competitors and gear (exhibit A: Formula windsurf)

A few things overlooked in the Pozo numbers: 1) a number of current and potential* PWA riders are currently campaigning IQFoil for 2024: Kordel, both Goyards and a bunch of other folks who would have been scorching in the conditions. imho, this is a good thing in that the PWA sailors overlap the Olympic population which hasn't happened since ever? If we split the fleets, chances are numbers would go down further as you'll be diluting the talent pool and the pipeline of IQFoil talent will end up in the foil camp solely. Young guys like McMillan, Bakker and Soe that did well in lighter wind in Garda are likely to stay on the foil track. 2) Pozo was supposed to be a fin race by conventional thought. That should have encouraged every fin and his brother/sister to show up. Numbers were less than Garda (50) which was more likely to favor foils.

Last, the Achilles heel of fins currently seems to be in jibes. Designs evolve to solve problems. It could be very interesting to see if there's an evolutionary leap in fin board designs to solve this which in ten years would benefit everyone who uses a fin. I think we'd all be happy to have fin boards that more consistently plane out of jibes while giving up little or no speed. Or for that matter, boards that consistently plane out of jibes. (the great challenge for every intermediate windsurfer).

* for example, at least one if not more potential US PWA sailors are currently campaigning IQFoil

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

duzzi said..

Maddlad said..

duzzi said..

Paducah said..
Three years ago, who would have thought that foil vs fin would be so close in 25+? If nothing else, the differences in speed in straights vs marks makes it more interesting to me rather than less seeing fin and foil together.

My foil speeds are pitiful and that was never the point for me but glad we don't have to see posts like "foils are so slow" any more that never added to the conversation.

Having them racing together is just silly.

Here we go again. The Youtube chat was full of non foilers complaining about them racing together. Funnily enough, they only complained when the foils were losing. ;)

Not sure what you mean by "here we go again". Having foil and fin together is like racing a Nacra 17 and a 49er together, it makes no sense. Nobody put different sailing classes together at the elite level other than the PWA. Even the Garda One Hour Classic, arguably a less then elite race with people of all skill entering, had foil and fin on different days this year.

And I find the main motivation for keeping foil and fin together embarrassing. Which one is faster? Fin or Foil? Last I checked good racing is about the athletes not the equipment. No surprise that there were a meager 28 entrants at POZO! It's the only venue in which fins have some chance, which means you need two sets of equipment to be competitive!

And besides, it is obvious that foil is faster. In the men division foil dominates. In the men division Pozo gave the only win, just in a final, for fin since 2019! And at POZO, foil does not dominate for the women only because the foiling skill of the fleet is still not as good as the men when wind goes above 25 knots or so.

Nacra and 49er are two very different sailing craft which would be like suggesting we are comparing Moths and windfoils in the PWA. Windfoil and windsurf gear is close enough that, in practice, the same board and sail can be used for both (e.g. IQFoil, Formula boards, a number of "convertible" designs like my old Tillo). From the water and above, fin and foil boards are very similar in both board and rig. Someone from outside the sport would be hard-pressed to tell the difference other than small differences in board shape. Even a jetskier can tell the difference between a Nacra and 49er at a thousand meters (the Nacra offers two hulls to cut in front of).

...

Last, the Achilles heel of fins currently seems to be in jibes. Designs evolve to solve problems. It could be very interesting to see if there's an evolutionary leap in fin board designs to solve this which in ten years would benefit everyone who uses a fin. I think we'd all be happy to have fin boards that more consistently plane out of jibes while giving up little or no speed. Or for that matter, boards that consistently plane out of jibes. (the great challenge for every intermediate windsurfer).

* for example, at least one if not more potential US PWA sailors are currently campaigning IQFoil

Well ... Nacra vs 49er was just to give a paradoxical example, but arguably the distance between a fin and a foil is not that far by comparison. At the end of the story the only thing that windsurfing fin and foil have in common is that they both use a rig mounted on an universal joint and a two sided boom ... everything else is completely different.

But sure, it would be nice to have fin boards that carry more speed in a jibe. Although I doubt it can be done unless you change physics. Unfortunately a fin needs a force acting somewhere off the direction of motion to generate lift, jibe and lift just goes away (unlike with a foil). Maybe a little electric propeller ...

I really enjoyed watching the whole thing - even - perhaps especially - seeing where fin and foil tended to shine or struggle. For myself I was aware that at my age, girth and fragility, the kind of overpowered foiling those guys were doing would be a mistake. Crouching for survival with super-long harness lines looked like all kinds of uncomfortable. I know Nico said he found finning tougher on the body but he's a helluva lot fitter than I am. I might well take a foil out in those conditions, but it wouldn't be looking for speed, just smoothness. Still, I admired their skill and the advanced setups they were able to use.

I was surprised to see elite sailors struggling to keep speed through the jibe on fins, and although it did make me feel better about my own anemic jibing skill, I did wonder if it was equipment-related. It seems to me that older, narrower-tailed boards used to handle waterski jibes better and were better able to time the swells to allow them to finish the jibe going downhill, which would have made a big difference on the port-tack marks.

I agree with Paducah, it's a good thing to mix athletes from different disciplines .. and the major glitch is the agenda of events overlapping with IQ foils. The next big one is in Marseille for Olympic test training starting tomorrow. Sailors have different objectives, the young Will McMillan focuses on the Olympics first .. and he was a beast at lake Garda PWA events. Like the DefiWind (where the goal is to mix amateurs with pros), when the event is too close to PWA events, the pros cannot be at both places.

There is also a marketing aspect that it's okay to mix fins and foils events .. .the "visible" brands are the same (boards and sails)! True that people are focusing a lot on the foil brand these days because of new evolution and performance records .. but in a couple of years, it could be like the fins, nobody would care if you drive with a Chopper, Z or Tectonics fins.

Select to expand quote

Lezardo said..
I agree with Paducah, it's a good thing to mix athletes from different disciplines ..

Its a novelty that wears off quick enough. Its a great way to divide the pie instead of growing it. All the national level competitions have stopped it. They completed 10 eliminations they could have easily done 5 of each, just as exciting maybe even more so.

Pretty depressing to only have 28 men at an easy to travel to event... (maybe that was because of the late confirmation)

some of the best racing in ages, and fin v foil had a lot to do with it. for reasons already mentioned by others, it seems counterproductive at this stage to separate them out again.

I could see a case, though, for a separate fin ranking, a bit like at the Defi, which could reward guys like Taty and Jimmy who raced fin only. Even at pro level, the need to have (and travel with) both sets of gear is a massive barrier to entry, while continuing to have both racing at the same time would allow everyone to join in the spectacle. of course that would raise the question of whether we should then also have foil only, and open rankings, which might dilute things too much again.

personally I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the post-jibe slowdown of the fin (which is now just more noticeable with foils around); while there were several occasions where the fin got 'eaten' upon the exit of a jibe, there were plenty of other occasions where the fin actually got an advantage too when the timing of the swell worked in their favor. it works both ways: compared to the foil the fin (board) is inherently more susceptible to swell action, causing it to slow down or speed up. also, depending on the side of the course, and your position in the pack, even if you managed to time your gybe with the swell, there was a lot of bounceback too, which on the fin is 'deadly'.

Point is everyone has the option of running either foil or fin, just like when F1 drivers have the choice of using a soft or harder tyre compound at the start of a race. ie. Each has their pros and cons. To see them use foils in that wind and in that sea state was incredible.

Interesting how low all the foilers had their booms, Enrico looked like he had his noticeably below shoulder height, to help get the weight lower i guess.


Gybes aside, its interesting how closely matched they are. Especially when considered on the fin they have to push as hard as they can and stay in stance, where the foil its more about constant micro movement, to keep from stacking.

Select to expand quote

bel29 said..
some of the best racing in ages, and fin v foil had a lot to do with it. for reasons already mentioned by others, it seems counterproductive at this stage to separate them out again.

I could see a case, though, for a separate fin ranking, a bit like at the Defi, which could reward guys like Taty and Jimmy who raced fin only. Even at pro level, the need to have (and travel with) both sets of gear is a massive barrier to entry, while continuing to have both racing at the same time would allow everyone to join in the spectacle. of course that would raise the question of whether we should then also have foil only, and open rankings, which might dilute things too much again.

personally I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the post-jibe slowdown of the fin (which is now just more noticeable with foils around); while there were several occasions where the fin got 'eaten' upon the exit of a jibe, there were plenty of other occasions where the fin actually got an advantage too when the timing of the swell worked in their favor. it works both ways: compared to the foil the fin (board) is inherently more susceptible to swell action, causing it to slow down or speed up. also, depending on the side of the course, and your position in the pack, even if you managed to time your gybe with the swell, there was a lot of bounceback too, which on the fin is 'deadly'.

Agreed. If there was enough money in the sport, there would be 2 separate events, but there isnt.
Maybe spread the prize pot across foil only (25%), fin only (25%), and overall (50%).
Foil boards and sails are so different to fin kit. Its now becoming to different sports,

Select to expand quote

Awalkspoiled said..

I was surprised to see elite sailors struggling to keep speed through the jibe on fins, and although it did make me feel better about my own anemic jibing skill, I did wonder if it was equipment-related. It seems to me that older, narrower-tailed boards used to handle waterski jibes better and were better able to time the swells to allow them to finish the jibe going downhill, which would have made a big difference on the port-tack marks.

Free sailing you can pick your swell to gybe on. Slalom you have less choice, if you slow down to gybe on a swell, you get overtaken. Its nothing to do with equipment.
Nico Prien said in his post race interview that one of the biggest differences between foil and fin is the number of racing lines available.
On the foil if you drop low you can get back upwind easier, or position yourself upwind before the gybe easier.

Select to expand quote

racerX said..

Pretty depressing to only have 28 men at an easy to travel to event... (maybe that was because of the late confirmation)

3-4 weeks I think.

Select to expand quote

PhilUK said..

bel29 said..
some of the best racing in ages, and fin v foil had a lot to do with it. for reasons already mentioned by others, it seems counterproductive at this stage to separate them out again.

I could see a case, though, for a separate fin ranking, a bit like at the Defi, which could reward guys like Taty and Jimmy who raced fin only. Even at pro level, the need to have (and travel with) both sets of gear is a massive barrier to entry, while continuing to have both racing at the same time would allow everyone to join in the spectacle. of course that would raise the question of whether we should then also have foil only, and open rankings, which might dilute things too much again.

personally I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the post-jibe slowdown of the fin (which is now just more noticeable with foils around); while there were several occasions where the fin got 'eaten' upon the exit of a jibe, there were plenty of other occasions where the fin actually got an advantage too when the timing of the swell worked in their favor. it works both ways: compared to the foil the fin (board) is inherently more susceptible to swell action, causing it to slow down or speed up. also, depending on the side of the course, and your position in the pack, even if you managed to time your gybe with the swell, there was a lot of bounceback too, which on the fin is 'deadly'.

Agreed. If there was enough money in the sport, there would be 2 separate events, but there isnt.
Maybe spread the prize pot across foil only (25%), fin only (25%), and overall (50%).
Foil boards and sails are so different to fin kit. Its now becoming to different sports,

What's the prize money when foils race but fins can't All kidding aside - not a bad idea for a little "side money" to encourage fin participation.

The other comment about foils having a great choice of lines is I think both responsible for the better action at the marks and races not turning into parades after the first mark.

Seeing the back and forth between Becker (sorry I got his name wrong higher up in the thread) and Prien in this video is pretty cool and Michele makes the point that sometimes being behind can be an advantage as you can better judge the line seeing the guy (or gal) in front of you.

Michele Becker's video was a good watch. It also highlights the danger of the foil, although Bordes managed to stab himself on the beach on his own fin.

I also wondering that if they had a full 5 days racing, maybe put the top 8 fin sailors into a fin only set of eliminations on the last day, following the women. That would keep some interest in fin racing. Not a good idea at light wind venues when they are scratching to get 4 eliminations done though.