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ghost4man said...

DanOinkey said...
I got my new toy out in cross shore windy conditions 3ft ish. I initially took a mal out cause it was marginal for standing on a SUP, but bit the bullet in the end.

I was really surprised. Amazing maneuverability, was much more stable than I expected and because it is much smaller than other sups was pretty easy to paddle out.

I had been concerned that I went too big. However, I got the stability I wanted and was really surprised by how it turned. Goes fast too.

I don't think trying to relate it to a bigger board works. It is just different and a great way of shortening your sup by a foot or so and getting the benefits of shorter board, but with a different stability approach so you can stand on it.

Dan,

I think the idea of these boards being a longer board with the front end cut off is something of an equivocation and misses the point that there is a lot
more design that goes into them than what meets the eye.

To prove that minion kind of shape is more stable and thinner 4.1" to 4.3" for same dimensions boards 7' 28" 95 liters, just compare and look the areas in cm2, center of gravity and volume distribution on these diagrams :

13351 cm2 for the minion type design and 12960 cm2 for elliptic design, the volume repartition is spread over the board on the Minion type and centered on the elliptic traditional design.
Note that the parallel rail has less row effect so make faster take off and the wide point of the board is pull back so make the board looser. And still have some buoyancy in nose.

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DanOinkey said...
I'm 6'2". Suspect that after the weekend I am over 93kegs!!

I have to admit that I am spending a fair bit of time thinking about riding mine.

Hmm I'm 184cm in height but come in at 73kegs so am thinking that the 7'2" will be plenty good.

The board you are riding looks so so loose. It also looks like it was an easy takeoff as well. How is it
stability wise waiting out the back and general paddling? Cheers Ozzie

Ozzie, We've had a shocking run of weather so I've only been able to get the minion out a couple of times and not yet on a great day.

Stability wise I am quickly adapting and very happy with standing out the back, particularly given it is 10" shorter and 2" narrower than my (previously) smallest loosest SUP.

General paddling is fine, with some normal new board wobbles. Paddles onto waves fine and is very tolerant of awkward paddle in angles and handles white water take offs better than any board I have ridden. I think this is due to its responsiveness.

It Feels very loose, easy to get into a quick turn or reo, direction changes very easy and great projection and speed. Really lively ride, much looser and faster than a conventional SUP of comparable stability in my opinion.

Casso has certainly stirred up some interest in these boards, hey? I know I have been looking at them for some time, but I haven't seen any in Vic yet so haven't had an opportunity to jump on one and see what they feel like. An unexpected work trip to Brissie last week gave me an opportunity to arrange something with Simon from Deep but, unfortunately, personal circumstances meant that I had to return urgently to Melbourne instead of enjoying what was going to be a perfect Goldie day - light offshore, small waves, sunny and 22. Bummer, on a couple of fronts!

I have a couple of queries about which I would appreciate any feedback you may have. I can see that these boards go really well in beachies and small waves. I know that Casso mentioned earlier in this thread surfing his minion in some bigger waves, but I'd be interested to know the wave size range in which these boards feel 'comfortable'. I know this is quite subjective and may largely depend upon the 'pilot', but I figure that a minion would be a part of a quiver, rather than an all-rounder. Thoughts? I'm not looking at this design as a big wave type board, but here in Vic it isn't that uncommon to be surfing head-high and above sized waves (at least at this time of the year). Will changing fins assist in bigger waves? When do you keep the minion in the car and pull out another board?

Also, if anyone in Vic has one and is going for surf sometime, feel free to pm me if you want.

I saw a short vid of Geoff Breen riding a similar shape from JP on FB. Anyone know anything about this?

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DanOinkey said..
Ozzie, We've had a shocking run of weather so I've only been able to get the minion out a couple of times and not yet on a great day.

Stability wise I am quickly adapting and very happy with standing out the back, particularly given it is 10" shorter and 2" narrower than my (previously) smallest loosest SUP.

General paddling is fine, with some normal new board wobbles. Paddles onto waves fine and is very tolerant of awkward paddle in angles and handles white water take offs better than any board I have ridden. I think this is due to its responsiveness.

It Feels very loose, easy to get into a quick turn or reo, direction changes very easy and great projection and speed. Really lively ride, much looser and faster than a conventional SUP of comparable stability in my opinion.

Dan it looks amazing mate. I have obviously been following this and the vanguard thread and along with Kami and Colas injection its clear that these smaller boards with this type of shape are creating a big buzz. The biggest question mark when it comes to going down in size for any rider will always be stability. How easy is it to paddle around in the preparation phase. There is nothing worse than waiting out the back and struggling just to stand up. It takes a lot out of you and the biggest kill joy when it comes to the surfing experience. There is no doubt that this board is lively to say the least and my prediction is that we are going to see a lot more of them out in the surf this coming summer. I am looking forward to having a test run now that the school holidays are finished and hopefully Casso can set up a demo day down at sydney. Interesting commentary in relation to white water take off. It seems that this board is a lot more stable than the numbers would suggest.

Ozzie

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Rosscoe said..
Casso has certainly stirred up some interest in these boards, hey? I know I have been looking at them for some time, but I haven't seen any in Vic yet so haven't had an opportunity to jump on one and see what they feel like. An unexpected work trip to Brissie last week gave me an opportunity to arrange something with Simon from Deep but, unfortunately, personal circumstances meant that I had to return urgently to Melbourne instead of enjoying what was going to be a perfect Goldie day - light offshore, small waves, sunny and 22. Bummer, on a couple of fronts!

I have a couple of queries about which I would appreciate any feedback you may have. I can see that these boards go really well in beachies and small waves. I know that Casso mentioned earlier in this thread surfing his minion in some bigger waves, but I'd be interested to know the wave size range in which these boards feel 'comfortable'. I know this is quite subjective and may largely depend upon the 'pilot', but I figure that a minion would be a part of a quiver, rather than an all-rounder. Thoughts? I'm not looking at this design as a big wave type board, but here in Vic it isn't that uncommon to be surfing head-high and above sized waves (at least at this time of the year). Will changing fins assist in bigger waves? When do you keep the minion in the car and pull out another board?

Also, if anyone in Vic has one and is going for surf sometime, feel free to pm me if you want.

Roscoe, I should have mine in torquay next week and am hoping to give your hypothesis a bit of interrogation over the coming month in our lovely 20+ knot winds, chop, booties and head gasket before I take it (and another board) to the Maldives and try it in glass and shorts....

checkout deep ocean boards FB a few more have popped up and they look sssooooo nice :-)))))

Thanks Tang. Interested to get some feedback from you in due course.

Hey Tang , keen as to here your thoughts

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Rosscoe said...
Casso has certainly stirred up some interest in these boards, hey? I know I have been looking at them for some time, but I haven't seen any in Vic yet so haven't had an opportunity to jump on one and see what they feel like. An unexpected work trip to Brissie last week gave me an opportunity to arrange something with Simon from Deep but, unfortunately, personal circumstances meant that I had to return urgently to Melbourne instead of enjoying what was going to be a perfect Goldie day - light offshore, small waves, sunny and 22. Bummer, on a couple of fronts!

I have a couple of queries about which I would appreciate any feedback you may have. I can see that these boards go really well in beachies and small waves. I know that Casso mentioned earlier in this thread surfing his minion in some bigger waves, but I'd be interested to know the wave size range in which these boards feel 'comfortable'. I know this is quite subjective and may largely depend upon the 'pilot', but I figure that a minion would be a part of a quiver, rather than an all-rounder. Thoughts? I'm not looking at this design as a big wave type board, but here in Vic it isn't that uncommon to be surfing head-high and above sized waves (at least at this time of the year). Will changing fins assist in bigger waves? When do you keep the minion in the car and pull out another board?

Also, if anyone in Vic has one and is going for surf sometime, feel free to pm me if you want.

Hey Rosscoe, I've seen Simon, the DEEP shaper, in solid Kirra point on his 7'0". He was taking some steep drops and driving through some fast, sucky sections. It looked like the board was handling the big stuff really well - but these were just observations ... until now: last week I took my 7'2" up the coast for a little holiday and was greeted with the one of the best days of the year on the east coast. I probably would have opted for my standard shaped 8'0" in the double overhead (and a bit) beach break but I only had my Minion - so I just went with that. I took a couple on the head getting out that rattled me a bit - but the little guy dealt with the pitching lip in the impact zone very well. I was imagining surfacing with two 3'7"s but the carbon stripes and short length kept it intact. The take offs were STEEP that day my friends and I was very hesitant taking off with so little rocker and a square nose. I pulled back on my first couple, frightened of nose diving and getting another beating but then the pressure was on (from the small crew in the water) and I took a bomb. As I was vertically descending, all kinds of horrible thoughts went through my head - . The board stuck to the face, followed the curve of the wave and negotiated the trough into a bottom turn beautifully. Absolutely no reason for concern at all. Once this first takeoff was mastered, I had a lot more confidence in the board and ended up going a few waves I don't think I would have gone on my 8'0" or even a shortboard. The little Minion handles a massive/critical drop so well it is ridiculous. And then when you have a 15 foot face to work with and a fast, drivey, pocket rocket ... well that's a whole other story.

Select to expand quote

mags said..
checkout deep ocean boards FB a few more have popped up and they look sssooooo nice :-)))))

Yeehar, the white one's mine.....all mine! Just have to wait a week to get it chauffeurred down to sunny Victoria. I was ok about waiting until Casso posted that damn extra bit, too.

I'll letchez know how mine goes after that, hopefully with the all-important way it performs in shorts and without the extra 10 kegs of rubber I had on yesterday when it was 5.5 degrees at 9am, with a 20-30kt wnw wind and apparent temp of -2.2 degrees. It got up to a balmy 8.5 or so by lunchtime. Surprisingly, it wasnt very crowded in town, though I did hear the winki carpark was packed - thank you swellnet.

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Tang said..

mags said..
checkout deep ocean boards FB a few more have popped up and they look sssooooo nice :-)))))

Yeehar, the white one's mine.....all mine! Just have to wait a week to get it chauffeurred down to sunny Victoria. I was ok about waiting until Casso posted that damn extra bit, too.

I'll letchez know how mine goes after that, hopefully with the all-important way it performs in shorts and without the extra 10 kegs of rubber I had on yesterday when it was 5.5 degrees at 9am, with a 20-30kt wnw wind and apparent temp of -2.2 degrees. It got up to a balmy 8.5 or so by lunchtime. Surprisingly, it wasnt very crowded in town, though I did hear the winki carpark was packed - thank you swellnet.

Looks niiicce Tang!! Think mines ready the week after. Make sure u put up some pics once you unwrap it :)

The ocean was angry that day, my friends! (credits go to Seinfeld).....thanks Casso, interesting feedback. Good to know what these designs can deal with.

I should add that I'm no big-wave charger, but here in Vic you sometimes aren't too sure whether you will get shoulder high or overhead conditions, even with the surf cams etc. For example, earlier this I was fortunate enough to have a reef break completely to myself for 3 hours. From the shore it looked quite small, but even though the average wave was about head high there were regular sets coming through that were easily double that size. I was demo'ing one of the new NSP DC's (8' 2") set up as a quad and I gotta say it handled the waves beautifully.

Select to expand quote

Casso said..

Rosscoe said...
Casso has certainly stirred up some interest in these boards, hey? I know I have been looking at them for some time, but I haven't seen any in Vic yet so haven't had an opportunity to jump on one and see what they feel like. An unexpected work trip to Brissie last week gave me an opportunity to arrange something with Simon from Deep but, unfortunately, personal circumstances meant that I had to return urgently to Melbourne instead of enjoying what was going to be a perfect Goldie day - light offshore, small waves, sunny and 22. Bummer, on a couple of fronts!

I have a couple of queries about which I would appreciate any feedback you may have. I can see that these boards go really well in beachies and small waves. I know that Casso mentioned earlier in this thread surfing his minion in some bigger waves, but I'd be interested to know the wave size range in which these boards feel 'comfortable'. I know this is quite subjective and may largely depend upon the 'pilot', but I figure that a minion would be a part of a quiver, rather than an all-rounder. Thoughts? I'm not looking at this design as a big wave type board, but here in Vic it isn't that uncommon to be surfing head-high and above sized waves (at least at this time of the year). Will changing fins assist in bigger waves? When do you keep the minion in the car and pull out another board?

Also, if anyone in Vic has one and is going for surf sometime, feel free to pm me if you want.

Hey Rosscoe, I've seen Simon, the DEEP shaper, in solid Kirra point on his 7'0". He was taking some steep drops and driving through some fast, sucky sections. It looked like the board was handling the big stuff really well - but these were just observations ... until now: last week I took my 7'2" up the coast for a little holiday and was greeted with the one of the best days of the year on the east coast. I probably would have opted for my standard shaped 8'0" in the double overhead (and a bit) beach break but I only had my Minion - so I just went with that. I took a couple on the head getting out that rattled me a bit - but the little guy dealt with the pitching lip in the impact zone very well. I was imagining surfacing with two 3'7"s but the carbon stripes and short length kept it intact. The take offs were STEEP that day my friends and I was very hesitant taking off with so little rocker and a square nose. I pulled back on my first couple, frightened of nose diving and getting another beating but then the pressure was on (from the small crew in the water) and I took a bomb. As I was vertically descending, all kinds of horrible thoughts went through my head - . The board stuck to the face, followed the curve of the wave and negotiated the trough into a bottom turn beautifully. Absolutely no reason for concern at all. Once this first takeoff was mastered, I had a lot more confidence in the board and ended up going a few waves I don't think I would have gone on my 8'0" or even a shortboard. The little Minion handles a massive/critical drop so well it is ridiculous. And then when you have a 15 foot face to work with and a fast, drivey, pocket rocket ... well that's a whole other story.

Casso interesting information as always. My gut feeling has always been that these shorter boards *should* be able to handle the big, heavier surf with steep drops. You only need to see what the traditional guys are doing on their prone boards to realise this.

Like yours, my biggest fear is nose diving head first into the water when you hit the bottom and nothing acts like a better anchor than this thought at the back of your head. I wonder if in the moment of preservation you were placing extra weight on your rear foot to give the board extra lift at the front or was it the case that it simply followed the contour of the wave. Its these vertical drops without any angling on the wave and just hoping you make it to the bottom hand turn that in my opinion define what the board is all about. Clearly from your experience this board handles the drop with ease :)I went out today just in front of Terrigal Surf Club and happened to notice I was the only SUP in the water. Once in the water with the wind blowing me off the board I realised why I was the only idiot that stands up out there :) I persisted but I tell you there is nothing like these sorts of conditions to test yourself out. I managed to paddle out to the point and decided to turn around when the real fun started. It was horrible. I persisted and managed to get to shore after some time and didnt even bother taking on a wave such were the conditions. I try and convince myself that days like this prepare you for the good ones and if you can just paddle around you are doing well.Ozzie

Colas et all,

This makes for a very interesting read I think guys: http://www.surfermag.com/blogs/design-forum/daniel-thomson-vanguard/

Its clear that the design principles in modern surfing are as equally innovative. I think the important thing here Colas is that the shaper is looking at utilising crucial aspects of the design only. In other words why have a pointy nose if it is not functional? So the design elements are inherently built on this premise. Ozzie

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ghost4man said..
Colas et all,

This makes for a very interesting read I think guys: http://www.surfermag.com/blogs/design-forum/daniel-thomson-vanguard/

Its clear that the design principles in modern surfing are as equally innovative. I think the important thing here Colas is that the shaper is looking at utilising crucial aspects of the design only. In other words why have a pointy nose if it is not functional? So the design elements are inherently built on this premise. Ozzie

Well, it depends where you come from.

Looking at a 7'2" "tomo" SUP, if you are used to a 8' you see the nose as chopped off.
If you are used to a 6'8" (semi) pointed nose like me, you see the nose as widened out... and I think "why more nose and swing weight"

Also low rocker pointed nose are functional: they are very often in the water (take off, full rail bottom turns).

So, basically, a chopped makes a lot of sense, but for me on a 6'2" SUP.... Mmm time to think of a new prototype ;-)

Colas,

I think the emphasis here is looking at the functional elements of the board. If you have a look at the nose with the concave aspects its clear that this design has been incorporated for a
specific reason and that is to promote lift. In other words why have a pointy nose as is the domain of traditional shaping for performance boards if it is not beneficial. As I said in a previous
post, you only have to look at sports like water skiing, snow boarding etc and yes I make the concession that we are talking about different mediums here, but why do they not incorporate
this type of shape, that is a pointy nose, into their gear particularly when speed an maneuevrability are such critical factors. Why be hamstrung by traditional dogma? Cant wait to get on
one of these boards and have a go.

Ozzie

Select to expand quote

ghost4man said..
Colas,

I think the emphasis here is looking at the functional elements of the board. If you have a look at the nose with the concave aspects its clear that this design has been incorporated for a
specific reason and that is to promote lift. In other words why have a pointy nose as is the domain of traditional shaping for performance boards if it is not beneficial. As I said in a previous
post, you only have to look at sports like water skiing, snow boarding etc and yes I make the concession that we are talking about different mediums here, but why do they not incorporate
this type of shape, that is a pointy nose, into their gear particularly when speed an maneuevrability are such critical factors. Why be hamstrung by traditional dogma? Cant wait to get on
one of these boards and have a go.

Ozzie

Again, I am not saying "it wont work". I am just questioning the explanations, not the facts. Hey at 220 lbs I have been riding 6'6" SUPs for more than 3 years now, so I had my dose of "It wont work" (or: "It will only dishpan") targeted to me :-)

PS: Pointed noses work much better in snowboarding... in the powder, and with added length.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

ghost4man said..
Colas,

I think the emphasis here is looking at the functional elements of the board. If you have a look at the nose with the concave aspects its clear that this design has been incorporated for a
specific reason and that is to promote lift. In other words why have a pointy nose as is the domain of traditional shaping for performance boards if it is not beneficial. As I said in a previous
post, you only have to look at sports like water skiing, snow boarding etc and yes I make the concession that we are talking about different mediums here, but why do they not incorporate
this type of shape, that is a pointy nose, into their gear particularly when speed an maneuevrability are such critical factors. Why be hamstrung by traditional dogma? Cant wait to get on
one of these boards and have a go.

Ozzie

Again, I am not saying "it wont work". I am just questioning the explanations, not the facts. Hey at 220 lbs I have been riding 6'6" SUPs for more than 3 years now, so I had my dose of "It wont work" (or: "It will only dishpan") targeted to me :-)

PS: Pointed noses work much better in snowboarding... in the powder, and with added length.

And thats what the tomo nose is all about 5'2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, nothing over 6'0. With longer lengths a pointed nose, or is it a full nose, or a round nose makes sense.

Its all about getting the maximum surface area in the shortest length with the narrowest plan shape.

It wasn't so long ago that pointed full noses were the worst design element because thay got in the road and kept on catching!!

Select to expand quote

boardbumps said..

colas said..

ghost4man said..
Colas,

I think the emphasis here is looking at the functional elements of the board. If you have a look at the nose with the concave aspects its clear that this design has been incorporated for a
specific reason and that is to promote lift. In other words why have a pointy nose as is the domain of traditional shaping for performance boards if it is not beneficial. As I said in a previous
post, you only have to look at sports like water skiing, snow boarding etc and yes I make the concession that we are talking about different mediums here, but why do they not incorporate
this type of shape, that is a pointy nose, into their gear particularly when speed an maneuevrability are such critical factors. Why be hamstrung by traditional dogma? Cant wait to get on
one of these boards and have a go.

Ozzie

Again, I am not saying "it wont work". I am just questioning the explanations, not the facts. Hey at 220 lbs I have been riding 6'6" SUPs for more than 3 years now, so I had my dose of "It wont work" (or: "It will only dishpan") targeted to me :-)

PS: Pointed noses work much better in snowboarding... in the powder, and with added length.

And thats what the tomo nose is all about 5'2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, nothing over 6'0. With longer lengths a pointed nose, or is it a full nose, or a round nose makes sense.
Its all about getting the maximum surface area in the shortest length with the narrowest plan shape.
It wasn't so long ago that pointed full noses were the worst design element because thay got in the road and kept on catching!!

Boardbumps I would question this. Why does a pointed nose make sense on the longer lengths? Whats the reasoning there. I just think that there are times when we
are caught up by traditional dogma to the exclusion of everything on the basis of what seems to be a correct presupposition. I think one of the elements that I am realising more
and more with these tomo inspired designs is the functionality element. If its not required or doesnt give any added benefit then why have it there. Intuitively the parallel rails thinking
seems to work because we can cut down the size of a board by a significant margin, retain volume and surface area as well make the board narrower. Its during the setup phase of catching
a wave where things become interesting. When you see a wave approaching and you start to paddle to get on at some point you will feel the board getting lifted. This happens due to the physical
principles of peaks and troughs of wave dynamics. When we wait for a wave we are effectively speaking waiting in a trough. As the wave comes along our intention is to get on the peak. Now once
you get on the peak this is where feeling will guide you as to the performance of the board. Boards react very differently during this phase. Some boards require intense paddling to reach the point of
forward momentum without any additional intervention on the part of the paddler. However some will start to plane a lot easier. The capacity to plane in this way comes down to a variety of factors not
least of which revolve around the shape of the board. A good way to test a boards planing ability is to sit in the pocket and without paddling see if the board will start to get on. Its this very element
that intrigues me about this design and it goes back to making the board as functional as possilbe.

Cheers Ozzie

If anyone wants to try the 7'2" Minion - get to Warriewood Beach this Sunday (27 July 2014) between 10am and 12pm. I'll be there with a few DEEPs you are welcome to have a go on:

- 7'2" x 26 7/8" x 3 15/16" x 92L
- 8'0" x 27 1/2" x 3 3/4" x 91L
- 8'4" x 28" x 3 3/4" x 97L
- 11'0" x 29" x 4 1/4" x 150L

Casso.

I'll start driving now Casso (unfortunately not). I was in Sydney for the day yesterday, too. Might have found a reason to stay there today if I had known.

Have a good morning's surfing.

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Rosscoe said..
I'll start driving now Casso (unfortunately not). I was in Sydney for the day yesterday, too. Might have found a reason to stay there today if I had known.

Have a good morning's surfing.

Bugger Rosscoe - I had yesterday off and surfed the Minion for over three hours in super fun, uncrowded waves at my local.

Select to expand quote

Casso said..


If anyone wants to try the 7'2" Minion - get to Warriewood Beach this Sunday (27 July 2014) between 10am and 12pm. I'll be there with a few DEEPs you are welcome to have a go on:

- 7'2" x 26 7/8" x 3 15/16" x 92L
- 8'0" x 27 1/2" x 3 3/4" x 91L
- 8'4" x 28" x 3 3/4" x 97L
- 11'0" x 29" x 4 1/4" x 150L

Casso.

is the black stripe a mark to step around to find quickly the good feet position to paddle on

Select to expand quote

ghost4man said..

boardbumps said..

colas said..

ghost4man said..
Colas,

I think the emphasis here is looking at the functional elements of the board. If you have a look at the nose with the concave aspects its clear that this design has been incorporated for a
specific reason and that is to promote lift. In other words why have a pointy nose as is the domain of traditional shaping for performance boards if it is not beneficial. As I said in a previous
post, you only have to look at sports like water skiing, snow boarding etc and yes I make the concession that we are talking about different mediums here, but why do they not incorporate
this type of shape, that is a pointy nose, into their gear particularly when speed an maneuevrability are such critical factors. Why be hamstrung by traditional dogma? Cant wait to get on
one of these boards and have a go.

Ozzie

Again, I am not saying "it wont work". I am just questioning the explanations, not the facts. Hey at 220 lbs I have been riding 6'6" SUPs for more than 3 years now, so I had my dose of "It wont work" (or: "It will only dishpan") targeted to me :-)

PS: Pointed noses work much better in snowboarding... in the powder, and with added length.

And thats what the tomo nose is all about 5'2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, nothing over 6'0. With longer lengths a pointed nose, or is it a full nose, or a round nose makes sense.
Its all about getting the maximum surface area in the shortest length with the narrowest plan shape.
It wasn't so long ago that pointed full noses were the worst design element because thay got in the road and kept on catching!!

Boardbumps I would question this. Why does a pointed nose make sense on the longer lengths? Whats the reasoning there. I just think that there are times when we
are caught up by traditional dogma to the exclusion of everything on the basis of what seems to be a correct presupposition. I think one of the elements that I am realising more
and more with these tomo inspired designs is the functionality element. If its not required or doesnt give any added benefit then why have it there. Intuitively the parallel rails thinking
seems to work because we can cut down the size of a board by a significant margin, retain volume and surface area as well make the board narrower. Its during the setup phase of catching
a wave where things become interesting. When you see a wave approaching and you start to paddle to get on at some point you will feel the board getting lifted. This happens due to the physical
principles of peaks and troughs of wave dynamics. When we wait for a wave we are effectively speaking waiting in a trough. As the wave comes along our intention is to get on the peak. Now once
you get on the peak this is where feeling will guide you as to the performance of the board. Boards react very differently during this phase. Some boards require intense paddling to reach the point of
forward momentum without any additional intervention on the part of the paddler. However some will start to plane a lot easier. The capacity to plane in this way comes down to a variety of factors not
least of which revolve around the shape of the board. A good way to test a boards planing ability is to sit in the pocket and without paddling see if the board will start to get on. Its this very element
that intrigues me about this design and it goes back to making the board as functional as possilbe.

Cheers Ozzie

Lets start with swing weight. This is one of the hardest elements of long board design, to design out. Wider tips have more swing weight, narrower tips have less swing weight.

The other part of twintip design that hasn't had much focus is the pod or tail section. To get a narrow waist for a certain planshape area (m2) you have to widen up somewhere, and on twintip designs it is the pod and nose.

Is it tradition that believes a wide tail will give you more control on larger more powerful waves or is it a narrower tail that gives you more control ?

Don't misunderstand me, I am in the design phase of making a twintip design, but at 6'8" long with a planshape area of around 1.4 m2, I find that1.4 m2 to 1.5 m2 is a very comfortable surface area to SUP on.

I really find it intriguing that just a few short months ago a narrow pointed nose was the most desired design element on SUP boards and that the wider, fuller, rounder noses were bad because of the added swing weight and that they apparently would "catch" all the time

Select to expand quote

Boardbumps I would question this. Why does a pointed nose make sense on the longer lengths? Whats the reasoning there. I just think that there are times when we

Select to expand quote

are caught up by traditional dogma to the exclusion of everything on the basis of what seems to be a correct presupposition. I think one of the elements that I am realising more
and more with these tomo inspired designs is the functionality element. If its not required or doesnt give any added benefit then why have it there. Intuitively the parallel rails thinking
seems to work because we can cut down the size of a board by a significant margin, retain volume and surface area as well make the board narrower. Its during the setup phase of catching
a wave where things become interesting. When you see a wave approaching and you start to paddle to get on at some point you will feel the board getting lifted. This happens due to the physical
principles of peaks and troughs of wave dynamics. When we wait for a wave we are effectively speaking waiting in a trough. As the wave comes along our intention is to get on the peak. Now once
you get on the peak this is where feeling will guide you as to the performance of the board. Boards react very differently during this phase. Some boards require intense paddling to reach the point of
forward momentum without any additional intervention on the part of the paddler. However some will start to plane a lot easier. The capacity to plane in this way comes down to a variety of factors not
least of which revolve around the shape of the board. A good way to test a boards planing ability is to sit in the pocket and without paddling see if the board will start to get on. Its this very element
that intrigues me about this design and it goes back to making the board as functional as possilbe.

Cheers Ozzie

Hi Ozzie,
the planing ability of the minion seems better than other traditional shaped boards that I have.
When paddling out or on flat water it feels quite slow, but it has no problem catching waves, even fat full ones.

I recently swapped in the water to try a traditional performance board in another brand. What became obvious to me was the lack of the loose, free, slippery feeling of my minion.
Also I was very surprised at the drop in stability during the take-off. The trad board tended to pearl away from whatever rail was lower in the water. The square nose of the minion doesn't do this, in fact the nose tends to right itself, even in critical situations when the board is well off its planing position.

The minion feels very comfortable in head high and larger. I find that I can lean into bottom turns with confidence, have always found that other sups feel like the rail won't handle a full committed turn.

At the risk of left fielding here, I would just say that my 2012 and 2013 SB 8'5" pros with c drive fins have never spun out through a bottom turn, and I have given it a red hot go, I can assure you.

and I get my new minion on Sunday, yeehar.

Very jealous Tang. Ultra keen to know your thoughts, especially after your trip overseas.

The SUP brands are clearly lagging behind in their design, still they sell at high prices.
One should expect that with all their designs/shapes in their catalogs (just count) and all their shapers a new development would be present. Unfortunately not. The SUP brands seem very traditional with hardly any evolution. Moreover their short boards are narrow with little volume made for perfect clean waves to peddle in by very short lightweight champions (did you notice most SUP champions are short people).
So when will SUP brands start to make short boards for real people in real conditions ?