Well I'll be damned. Two sessions today and the last one I was able to borrow Jason (aka wingman's) back V tail. I am stoked.

I was a bit down on the chop I did - as explained above, but the V tail almost bridges the gap pumping wise. I was able to pump out the back, a few minor link ups, but the swell was dropping quickly and there wasn't many waves to link.
Recovery from stall speed was exponentially better. Get back high and drive back through. Also have better forward speed and more bang for your buck when pushing forward.


turns nicely to.


the yaw was noticeable at first but by the third or so wave, it wasn't an issue after adjustment.

the drop off in speed and that relative draggy feel from the chop was also much reduced.

stoked. I really thought I had messed up.
best of both worlds now.

ps if any of the 7 lads out proning with me this morning reads this - was a great vibe, everyone sharing the waves (literally riding on the same wave together with crew) just having fun. What surfing used to be before all the Kelly Slater wanna be flog attitude took over.

Mentions spring at bottom of pump. Great description - felt that to

.be

1250 chopped 50 fuse V200 tail ....insane turning and pumping!

Went a little crazy on the chop. The foam core seems hard. Hopefully test her out soon.

It's crazy loose but feels great, noticeable speed boost. Definitely handles ventilation better.

Damn boy you went chop mad - bahahahaa

I eventually rounded the edges as per "those in the know" down margs. Seems to work well, less ventilation for sure - looser, doesn't track as hard.


Pumping is nearly back to normal after adding the V tail, plus my skills have improved overall anyhow.

Although I still don't maintain it glides as well - which can be a bummer in smaller stuff. But it's much better in the sizeable stuff on both prone and wing.

Honestly my hand slipped using the circular saw, kind of just went with it!

Gonna seal up the foam with some carbon and round it out. Hopefully try it out prone soon, hoping I didn't take too much juice out of it. The 1250 has been my favorite prone foil but the ventilation was always catastrophic. Hopefully we can pop tips on the 1250V2 whenever that comes.

What shims have you guys settled with on the v tail?

I'm still on the minus 2 myself. Like the front foot pressure. Seems to give me more control on the foil height and some resistance when pumping. But most others seem to be going the other way !



ps that's given my mast as far front as I can. Others may be able to move more forward in the tracks.

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foilthegreats said..
It's crazy loose but feels great, noticeable speed boost. Definitely handles ventilation better.

Wow ! that is a very cool video showing the ventilation with the tips coming out, good perspective and it would be interesting to see on other foils/ brands and how they behave too.

Just chopped my a+ 1250 and only took 10mm off and already hit foam! ????

There's no such thing as an a + 1250 but that aside, weird you hit foam? Never hit any on my chop. Did you sand the sh1t out of it or something ?

A+ will have 3 holes rather than original 2. I got the same on an older 1250. It has not appeared to suck water after many months of use. I did clear laquer it though.

Yeah as hilly says. Has the 3 holes instead of the 2 and has printed a+ on it. I would have thought it would have been the same apart from that.
I chopped a mates older one a few weeks back and took 15mm off each side instead of my 10mm and there was no foam anywhere to be seen.
just wanted to put a warning out as most have thought like myself it's safe to take at least 18mm off each side before you hit foam but looks like that's not the case.

Ah right my bad. Of course 3 holes.
that's weird with the foam thing man, bugger.
let us know how you find it chopped.

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wicka said..
Yeah as hilly says. Has the 3 holes instead of the 2 and has printed a+ on it. I would have thought it would have been the same apart from that.
I chopped a mates older one a few weeks back and took 15mm off each side instead of my 10mm and there was no foam anywhere to be seen.
just wanted to put a warning out as most have thought like myself it's safe to take at least 18mm off each side before you hit foam but looks like that's not the case.

They are hand laid up and pressed in a mould so there will be individual differences. It is not a major issue. The improvements are worth the risk. I clipped my 1550 V2 as well and the improvement in turning is amazing.

So, curious why Army wouldn't have simply designed the foils "pre-chopped" with no down turn at the tips for the performance benefits everyone seems to be stoked on? Does the down turn at the tip just provide a little better tracking and user-friendliness for the average user? I still haven't had the guts to chop my 1850/1250 yet. Wish I could try the chopped versions back to back with mine first.

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Can555 said..
So, curious why Army wouldn't have simply designed the foils "pre-chopped" with no down turn at the tips for the performance benefits everyone seems to be stoked on? Does the down turn at the tip just provide a little better tracking and user-friendliness for the average user? I still haven't had the guts to chop my 1850/1250 yet. Wish I could try the chopped versions back to back with mine first.

I recon that's pretty much it, it tracks better and slightly more drive unchopped ,but if you like the tracking feel you can get that with the tail choice easily, The benefits of unchopping definitely out way the minor losses.Can't really answer why Army didn't design this from the start, but pretty cool that someone tried it , maybe one of those things that works in practice but not in theory?

Tips provide more tracking and easier accessed glide from what I've found. It was the marg crew who ride in more powerful and serious waves (and some there who are really pushing the wave riding envelope) who I think pushed the chop shop in my circle anyway (of course started by sky Rama in Maui but again serious waves). But most don't ride in these conditions not will get to the advanced stage some of these shredders are at.

problem where I ride is we get more of the lame stuff but occasionally you are glad you are on the chop - well more than occasionally but more the former if you know what I mean

kobo is right about the tails though. They make a massive difference. So do shims.

I suppose Armstrong's alternative was to bring out another 3 or 4 lines like axis did and confuse the market and retailers alike.


the chop is there if ya want it I suppose and have water conditions to suite. But they work just fine without them as medium high aspect all roundish wings.


then there is the true HA stuff starting with the 1125 coming out. That is a different ball game altogether.

Didn't know the 1850 was better chopped mine feels good as standard but my chopped 1250 feels a lot better all the time than before. I recently got a hs 850 and was surprised how well that went in smallish waves. It definitely dropped sooner but still good for me at 80 kg on a sup. Should be good in bigger waves but expect the 1050 to remain my favourite. I still prefer the 300 tail which seems to make things a bit easier with less crashes.

So verdict is in on the chopped 1250 and I think it's great! I had multiple tip breaches on hard turns and it recovered perfectly!
I've recently moved to Armstrong from unifoil and have really struggled to dial in the gear! But I think I've found a turning point now that I've chopped the tips off the front wing and also off the v-tail, 0 deg shim. Completely changed the feel of the setup. I think I hated being locked in but now I'm happy with it, fast and buttery almost fluid like! I'm finally looking forward to my sessions again!

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wicka said..
So verdict is in on the chopped 1250 and I think it's great! I had multiple tip breaches on hard turns and it recovered perfectly!
I've recently moved to Armstrong from unifoil and have really struggled to dial in the gear! But I think I've found a turning point now that I've chopped the tips off the front wing and also off the v-tail, 0 deg shim. Completely changed the feel of the setup. I think I hated being locked in but now I'm happy with it, fast and buttery almost fluid like! I'm finally looking forward to my sessions again!

What uni foil did you have? and why did you decide to switch to Armstrong, I always thought if I left the Army it would be for a unifoil or Kujira or possibly lift but I'm pretty entrenched in the Army atm.

Yeh me too but I know guys who shred on those other two.

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kobo said..

wicka said..
So verdict is in on the chopped 1250 and I think it's great! I had multiple tip breaches on hard turns and it recovered perfectly!
I've recently moved to Armstrong from unifoil and have really struggled to dial in the gear! But I think I've found a turning point now that I've chopped the tips off the front wing and also off the v-tail, 0 deg shim. Completely changed the feel of the setup. I think I hated being locked in but now I'm happy with it, fast and buttery almost fluid like! I'm finally looking forward to my sessions again!

What uni foil did you have? and why did you decide to switch to Armstrong, I always thought if I left the Army it would be for a unifoil or Kujira or possibly lift but I'm pretty entrenched in the Army atm.

I had the uni 190. Was super efficient and fast! Awesome to ride but I had heaps of quality issues and failures. They had heaps of issues with manufacturing in China and have now moved production to Australia so should have a much better product now.

I think Armstrong has the best build quality so that's why I went with them at the time. Hopefully the next series of foils we won't have to modify ??. In saying that I'm loving the 1125 on my wing.

As I said they don't need modifying. Unless you'd like multiple lines to serve specific purposes like say axis which is to me a cluster F.

what id like to see maybe is a chop line (as with the tails) on the front wings (that has been verified by the engineers and test riders on various prototypes) that provides a more accurate and replicable option for those that want that more wave friendly wing.


it's kind of crass us all chopping away randomly
in our own sheds on a wing that has been designed with the latest American cup software.


felt like I was destroying a fine piece of art! Probably won't make any difference but in my head it would. Be a good marketing ploy to
and also preserve sale value If an official chop line was demarcated.

But hey it works.

My prototype 850 has chop lines to take it down to 625. Interesting to see the differences in size but not there to cut along.

Yeh that is interesting. Cheers for that. Looks like I hopefully got it right if a similar edge shape (after consulting with some marg crew ) was printed on a 1250. But we are all guessing and trying it out.