amp.abc.net.au/article/103967202

Select to expand quote

Craig66 said..
amp.abc.net.au/article/103967202

Surprise surprise.

So did he push it off ok.

She sure is high and dry. Hope that is tidal.

Three vertical balls = I am aground.
In Japan even my 25 footer is required to carry three balls, one cone and one diamond.

Select to expand quote

garymalmgren said..
Three vertical balls = I am aground.

Hence that old nautical expression for"a balls-up"?

No more Kava for you

Select to expand quote

garymalmgren said..
She sure is high and dry. Hope that is tidal.

Three vertical balls = I am aground.
In Japan even my 25 footer is required to carry three balls, one cone and one diamond.

Nice one Gary - now I will know what that means forever!

As they say "there are those who have. And those who have not yet"..

Hard to get the details, but un-confirmed reports are they were transiting the lagoon entrance of Fulaga island in a strong easterly.

Although, because their ships boat is not in the boat-well, I wonder if they were launching/recovering the boat just a bit to close to the reef?

Ah well, it's not as if our own Border Farce hasn't done the same thing

Select to expand quote

Woohoo said..
Ah well, it's not as if our own Border Farce hasn't done the same thing

Our Navy certainly has. I've indirect but personal experience of a few and very personal experience of one.

And who can forget when one of Incat's boats was parked on Blackjack rocks in 1994?

m.facebook.com/abchobart/videos/catamaran-runs-aground/713375179457246/

I ran aground in the Brisbane Water channel just north of Box Head years back. A maze of blinking markers. Stuck hard and close to high tide so we called the Coast Patrol (back then) who had almost reached us about 10pm until we saw their port and starboard approaching nav lights suddenly stop moving and list at a 30 degree angle. You guessed it.

I reckon it's pretty ballsy, looking on go ogle maps, the entrance to Fulaga lagoon looks barely a ship length wide.

The imag in this article looks like maybe 2 ship lengths wide.

www.fijivillage.com/news/RFNS-Puamau-crew-en-route-to-Suva-for-salvage-operations-and-counselling-support-5xf8r4/

Expect no navy is immune...........

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2348839.stm#:~:text=The%20Royal%20Navy%20warship%20HMS,%C2%A310m%20to%20%C2%A311m.

Or ferry operator..............

www.smh.com.au/national/ferry-crashes-into-circular-quay-wharf-20020516-gdfa9v.html

For the Collaroy there was no structural or mechanical or electrical / instrumentation / control problem involved.........

www.bridgemanimages.com/en/will-burgess/fireman-overlooks-scene-after-manly-ferry-runs-aground-at-manly-point-in-sydney-2001-02-26-photo/photograph/asset/8401174

Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Select to expand quote

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Select to expand quote

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

It took 16 posts for a thread about grounding to elicit a post advocating full-length keels. This must be a record.

That ATSB list is overwhelmingly S H I P S! Big ones, with engines - navigating under commercial pressures.

It would be silly to buy a boat that was unsuitable for the kind of sailing you intend to do, but I'm not silly for selling my landcruiser to buy a mazda 6 wagon when I want to go further than 400 K's on a tank of fuel. I would be silly to try and cross the Simpson in it.....

Select to expand quote

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Where is the actual evidence showing that one type has a better grounding record?

How many times have you gone through old newspapers, sailing books etc from the day when almost all boats had long keels? I've done it and it's interesting how often they were lost after strandings. They hit the bottom with frequency, often knowing it was there but unable to tack because of their long keels. The very first Colin Archer type to cruise Australia, for example, was lost after it hit the bricks because it could not tack in the light wind and heavy swell. Before that it had been almost lost because it couldn't tack in strong winds and heavy swell.

As the owner of some wooden boats I read the wooden boat mags, and it's amazing (and horrifying IMHO) how often they point out that a long keeler tacked without problem. If I had a fin keel monohull in which tacking was ever even the slightest problem I'd find it weird.

If you haven't actually done a research-based analysis of the issue then you've got not real right to call people, including many vastly more experienced than, "crazy".

On a slightly related note, it's interesting to read accounts of races when everyone had gaff rig. They lost spars far more often than we do today.

Select to expand quote

r13 said..
Expect no navy is immune...........

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2348839.stm#:~:text=The%20Royal%20Navy%20warship%20HMS,%C2%A310m%20to%20%C2%A311m.

Or ferry operator..............

www.smh.com.au/national/ferry-crashes-into-circular-quay-wharf-20020516-gdfa9v.html

For the Collaroy there was no structural or mechanical or electrical / instrumentation / control problem involved in the Manly Pt grounding incident.........

www.bridgemanimages.com/en/will-burgess/fireman-overlooks-scene-after-manly-ferry-runs-aground-at-manly-point-in-sydney-2001-02-26-photo/photograph/asset/8401174

Select to expand quote

Chris 249 said..

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Where is the actual evidence showing that one type has a better grounding record?

How many times have you gone through old newspapers, sailing books etc from the day when almost all boats had long keels? I've done it and it's interesting how often they were lost after strandings. They hit the bottom with frequency, often knowing it was there but unable to tack because of their long keels. The very first Colin Archer type to cruise Australia, for example, was lost after it hit the bricks because it could not tack in the light wind and heavy swell. Before that it had been almost lost because it couldn't tack in strong winds and heavy swell.

As the owner of some wooden boats I read the wooden boat mags, and it's amazing (and horrifying IMHO) how often they point out that a long keeler tacked without problem. If I had a fin keel monohull in which tacking was ever even the slightest problem I'd find it weird.

If you haven't actually done a research-based analysis of the issue then you've got not real right to call people, including many vastly more experienced than, "crazy".

On a slightly related note, it's interesting to read accounts of races when everyone had gaff rig. They lost spars far more often than we do today.

Hmmm, a prudent sailor would be aware of the navigational dangers and take precautions, long keel/ gaff or triangle sail, fin keel not withstanding
If unsure stand off and evaluate the situation. As to racing gaffs losing spars while racing, all racing pushes rigs and vessels to the limit, and stuff breaks. Ps I find the gaff spray has issues with tacking, but is happy to gybe so around the long way she goes

Select to expand quote

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Oh no squared.
Rumours it's now beyond salvage?




I hate seeing boats aground, irresepective of it being a stink boat or a sail boat. This is so sad.

Umm, nevermind

This is the problem with steel boats. If you look at the AMSA figures basically all the boats that run aground are steel.

Select to expand quote

shaggybaxter said..

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Oh no squared.
Rumours it's now beyond salvage?




I hate seeing boats aground, irresepective of it being a stink boat or a sail boat. This is so sad.

It's not looking good.

They will salvage her, but whether she's an economical repair......?

She's very bow up, presumably due to sitting on the reef, forcing the stern down.

Unless they've been able to keep on top dewatering there's distinct possibility that main engines, generators and possibly switchboards have all got wet.

Even then they may be able to swap all those out.
But if there's also larger structural issues due to hitting and sitting on the reef, that's possibly going to write her off.

Rebuilding main bulkheads, keelson, steering system etc

One of the (many) problems with this salvage is the remote location.
To get the salvage equipment and crew there (from Manila or Singapore ) will be very expensive and take time.
Then the vessel will need to be moved to a place of repair.
Perth where was built is a very long way.
The ABC report a few days ago noted the the engine room was flooded. From the latest photos posted here that looks to be the case.
As Shaggy suggested, she seems to be a write off. Even then, removing the hulk, and pollutants then scuttling her will be expensive.

I wonder about the chain of command. Who actually decided to take her in there in those conditions?

Select to expand quote

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

Agreed, you know your going to have a grounding sooner or later, even if its just a little tap its good to know the keel has a substantial attachment to a strong hull.

Select to expand quote

garymalmgren said..
One of the (many) problems with this salvage is the remote location.
To get the salvage equipment and crew there (from Manila or Singapore ) will be very expensive and take time.
Then the vessel will need to be moved to a place of repair.
Perth where was built is a very long way.
The ABC report a few days ago noted the the engine room was flooded. From the latest photos posted here that looks to be the case.
As Shaggy suggested, she seems to be a write off. Even then, removing the hulk, and pollutants then scuttling her will be expensive.

I wonder about the chain of command. Who actually decided to take her in there in those conditions?

I imagine they'll take her back to Cairns for assessment, like in the case of the Samoan vessel.


I wonder if it's a regular thing for them, to enter all these sketchy reefs that make me anxious just looking at them?

If so, maybe it was just the execution of the passage, rather than the decision to enter that is at fault.

I noticed that a reasonably large landing craft/ferry had entered on ais on Friday.

Select to expand quote

JonE said..

Yara said..

D3 said..
Just look at the ATSB list of maritime incidents they've investigated.
The vast VAST majority are groundings

Which is why it is crazy to buy a lightweight boxy yacht with a vulnerable keel.
Back to the patrol boat, it looks like it is on a flat shelf, so hopefully not too much damage.

It took 16 posts for a thread about grounding to elicit a post advocating full-length keels. This must be a record.

That ATSB list is overwhelmingly S H I P S! Big ones, with engines - navigating under commercial pressures.

It would be silly to buy a boat that was unsuitable for the kind of sailing you intend to do, but I'm not silly for selling my landcruiser to buy a mazda 6 wagon when I want to go further than 400 K's on a tank of fuel. I would be silly to try and cross the Simpson in it.....

No, it is not only full length keels which can be strong and capable of handling a light grounding without major damage. A wide keel root does a good job. The problem is the modern mass produced boxy yachts are designed to be shipped worldwide. Mass production dictates that. If you have experience with shipping large objects you will know that containers, or flat racks, need to be "in gauge". ie fit in container module spacing. Hence the current designs have shallow internal grids instead of the good old fashioned wide root keel.

I'm very supportive of the Pacific partnership, but $16m of Australian taxpayers money down before salvage and potentially another $16+m for the future replacement.

Select to expand quote

EastCoastSail said..
I'm very supportive of the Pacific partnership, but $16m of Australian taxpayers money down before salvage and potentially another $16+m for the future replacement.

U reckon we should throw in a plotter with the next one?