Back to the cable park with you Salty! Easy transition from heel side to toe side will give you practice and you can then adapt to kiting. Most of the pro kite videos feature time at the ski/cable park failing their tricks before actually pulling them off out on the open water "towed" by their kite. Good luck mate!

Yeah i went to the cable park to get the hang of toe side, seemed to wus out whenever I thought about it in the ocean. It's interesting to find out how much pressure you have to put on your front foot to edge properly, it was a lot more than I expected. It still doesn't prepare you for the akward position the kite is in, so definately practice when you are close to being overpowered that way you don't have to worry about sining the kite, foot pressure and edging all at the same time.

Thanks boys. I'll def. try it next time I'm near a cable park. I'm in Asia this weekend and nearly booked a weekend in Singpoare to use their cable park... given the pollution that's going on there right now, I dodged a bullet.

Toeside practice will have to wait, Phuket kiteboard hire here I come. It's currently predicting 17knots for sat, which isn't massive, but enough, esp. with a 16m kite.

www.windguru.cz/208477

It's a shame, as if I had nailed toeside, I would have hired a directional board and given that a go [for the first time ever]. May still do it, sink or swim... so to speak.

With regards to the amount of pressure you have to apply, that's interesting as, I always seem to stall the kite/momentum when I switch to toeside. I've been trying to master going direct down wind,... but I feel so unco I just lose it...

I'll get there... it will click.

Much easier going toe-side on a surfboard! Don't let your lack of TT toe-side experience stop you.

Thanks mr backroll.

If the wind is good all day like it is supposed to be, I'll do the morning on a TT, come back to shore, a non-alcholic drink and thai banana pancake, then swap the TT for a directional.

Hey everyone,

So I have been hitting the cable park for the past two weeks and I have managed to go on both sides. Is there a difference between the cable park stance and kitesurf stance? Because I have been told that I need to bend both of my legs when I wakeboard whereas in Kitesurfing I need to bend my back leg and extend my front leg.

Hi Cyber98, I did the same thing this weekend and considered the same thing...

I personally found it a lot harder at the cable park than kiting, due to the lack of harness. My take on it is:

The stance is different as when you're cruising at the cable park, it seems people's arms are straight (so as not to tire the biceps) and as a result, the body position is slightly... straighter. also, I think you tend to edge harder when you're cruising when you're kiting, where as a cable park you only edge hard if you're doing exaggerated S's from one side to another.

Yes, generally, straight front leg, bent back leg (taking the weight of your body).

Going to a cable park (some months back now) meant I finally learnt how to waterstart, so let us know your progress. FYI, I was practicing going toeside as I am struggling with this on the kite.

Oh, I learnt a new and nearly expensive lesson over the weekend... Cabrinha's unique quick release system allows one to completely detach the kite from the kiter without 'pulling the pin' on the leash.

Whilst I took some efforts to understand the system of this hired kite overseas, it turned out the language barrier caused a misunderstanding and hence I mistakenly detached the kite.

Lesson learned, take all efforts to understand and ideally use the quick release system on the beach before flying the kite!

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SaltySinus said..

Oh, I learnt a new and nearly expensive lesson over the weekend... Cabrinha's unique quick release system allows one to completely detach the kite from the kiter without 'pulling the pin' on the leash.

I still don't understand why the Cab system is advantages to other systems. More complicated if anything...?

Yeah I had a go of the Cab bar a few weeks ago... I am not very happy with it. Don't get me wrong, its an amazing piece of workmanship. Just not my cup of tea. Cab Drifter has now been struck from the shortlist of kites.

I guess it's personal choice.

Apparently the sprung loaded bar stopper system is great for when you seriously screw up as it lets the bar depower loads more when you let go of it, and the spring returns it to a 'normal' level, meaning the kite doesn't fall out the sky like you've pulled the QR.

I think the lesson here is, for me, not to be complacent when renting gear. The whole leash connected to the loop, but loop not connected to the bar has really caught me by surprise... I'm just glad a.) no one was hurt when I effectively completely released the kite from me and b.) I was able to recover the kite and bar without any damage.

I guess you used and older Cab bar? Now QR2 only releases the kite when QR1 is actionned.

Is QR2 a weird disk on the inside of the loop?

Yep

Yep, that's the one I pulled thinking the leash would still be attached to the kite... otherwise what is the point of the leash? I now know differently!

Salty, you only have 5 more posts till you get 400. therefore you are no longer a NOOB.
:)

Kitcho. thanks mate. About bl00dy time.

What happens when I'm not a NOOB? Do I suddenly known how to do back rolls and transitions? Please god say that's so!

I will have to give my last three posts some thought!

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SaltySinus said..

Yep, that's the one I pulled thinking the leash would still be attached to the kite... otherwise what is the point of the leash? I now know differently!

Salty,

The point of a leash is so you can ride unhooked and let go of the bar :D

Cab bar in theory allows you to have the best of both worlds:
- you still have 2 stage safety - push QR1 and kite flags, then pull QR2 (the one you must have accidentally pulled) and the kite is released. The chicken loop stays attached to your harness as does the leash.
- you can also ride unhooked, let go of the bar and the leash keeps it attached to you. but you can QR the leash then too if the s*** hits the fan and you need to let go of the whole thing

Other brands (ozone) for example require you to switch your leash to suicide to ride unhooked. That means you will still be in suicide even when hooked in. If you get in trouble you can't flag the kite when riding suicide.

Having said that, I use ozone and have no issues with their safety system. Most of the time I'll ride suicide unless riding really overpowered.

The beauty of ozone bar is that it's super easy to reset if you flag the kite. My brother rides cabs and I had trouble resetting cab system on land. I think it would be a lot harder to do in the water when there is some pull from the kite.

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SpaceCoyote said..

SaltySinus said..

Yep, that's the one I pulled thinking the leash would still be attached to the kite... otherwise what is the point of the leash? I now know differently!

Salty,

The point of a leash is so you can ride unhooked and let go of the bar :D

Cab bar in theory allows you to have the best of both worlds:
- you still have 2 stage safety - push QR1 and kite flags, then pull QR2 (the one you must have accidentally pulled) and the kite is released. The chicken loop stays attached to your harness as does the leash.
- you can also ride unhooked, let go of the bar and the leash keeps it attached to you. but you can QR the leash then too if the s*** hits the fan and you need to let go of the whole thing

Other brands (ozone) for example require you to switch your leash to suicide to ride unhooked. That means you will still be in suicide even when hooked in. If you get in trouble you can't flag the kite when riding suicide.

Having said that, I use ozone and have no issues with their safety system. Most of the time I'll ride suicide unless riding really overpowered.

The beauty of ozone bar is that it's super easy to reset if you flag the kite. My brother rides cabs and I had trouble resetting cab system on land. I think it would be a lot harder to do in the water when there is some pull from the kite.

I use the Cab system. Its not really that difficult once you are familiar with it. I found it easier to reset in the water under load than it is on land. Like anything if you are unfamiliar with it and have not practised using it then you are going to not be as comfortable as something you are familiar with. I was using an Ozone kite a couple of weeks ago for the first time and would have the same comments as you had in the Cab bar with the Ozone bar so I think it really does come down to what you are familiar with.

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kitebt said..

SpaceCoyote said..

SaltySinus said..

Yep, that's the one I pulled thinking the leash would still be attached to the kite... otherwise what is the point of the leash? I now know differently!

Salty,

The point of a leash is so you can ride unhooked and let go of the bar :D

Cab bar in theory allows you to have the best of both worlds:
- you still have 2 stage safety - push QR1 and kite flags, then pull QR2 (the one you must have accidentally pulled) and the kite is released. The chicken loop stays attached to your harness as does the leash.
- you can also ride unhooked, let go of the bar and the leash keeps it attached to you. but you can QR the leash then too if the s*** hits the fan and you need to let go of the whole thing

Other brands (ozone) for example require you to switch your leash to suicide to ride unhooked. That means you will still be in suicide even when hooked in. If you get in trouble you can't flag the kite when riding suicide.

Having said that, I use ozone and have no issues with their safety system. Most of the time I'll ride suicide unless riding really overpowered.

The beauty of ozone bar is that it's super easy to reset if you flag the kite. My brother rides cabs and I had trouble resetting cab system on land. I think it would be a lot harder to do in the water when there is some pull from the kite.

I use the Cab system. Its not really that difficult once you are familiar with it. I found it easier to reset in the water under load than it is on land. Like anything if you are unfamiliar with it and have not practised using it then you are going to not be as comfortable as something you are familiar with. I was using an Ozone kite a couple of weeks ago for the first time and would have the same comments as you had in the Cab bar with the Ozone bar so I think it really does come down to what you are familiar with.

Hi Kitebt. Cabs are a seriously well engineered kite. Like the Naish, you look at the close up and you go 'wow, this is the Audi of the kite world.'. So I'm certainly not knocking them.

I was certainly more than surprised that the leash can be attached, but you can still detatch from the kite. Compared with many kites these days, it seems a bit of an anomoly, but I'm speaking of a very very limited experience. One only has to watch any Kite DVD shot even 2-3 years a go where they demo the quick release, and the systems are wildly different.

I guess my point is: I was complacent and inexperienced. In my defence I took time out to ask the questions, but due to the language barrier (I hired the kite overseas) I misunderstood the system. I took time to test the QR1 on the beach, but not the QR2 (detach). I guess that was the main mistake.

Select to expand quote

SaltySinus said..

kitebt said..

SpaceCoyote said..

SaltySinus said..

Yep, that's the one I pulled thinking the leash would still be attached to the kite... otherwise what is the point of the leash? I now know differently!

Salty,

The point of a leash is so you can ride unhooked and let go of the bar :D

Cab bar in theory allows you to have the best of both worlds:
- you still have 2 stage safety - push QR1 and kite flags, then pull QR2 (the one you must have accidentally pulled) and the kite is released. The chicken loop stays attached to your harness as does the leash.
- you can also ride unhooked, let go of the bar and the leash keeps it attached to you. but you can QR the leash then too if the s*** hits the fan and you need to let go of the whole thing

Other brands (ozone) for example require you to switch your leash to suicide to ride unhooked. That means you will still be in suicide even when hooked in. If you get in trouble you can't flag the kite when riding suicide.

Having said that, I use ozone and have no issues with their safety system. Most of the time I'll ride suicide unless riding really overpowered.

The beauty of ozone bar is that it's super easy to reset if you flag the kite. My brother rides cabs and I had trouble resetting cab system on land. I think it would be a lot harder to do in the water when there is some pull from the kite.

I use the Cab system. Its not really that difficult once you are familiar with it. I found it easier to reset in the water under load than it is on land. Like anything if you are unfamiliar with it and have not practised using it then you are going to not be as comfortable as something you are familiar with. I was using an Ozone kite a couple of weeks ago for the first time and would have the same comments as you had in the Cab bar with the Ozone bar so I think it really does come down to what you are familiar with.

Hi Kitebt. Cabs are a seriously well engineered kite. Like the Naish, you look at the close up and you go 'wow, this is the Audi of the kite world.'. So I'm certainly not knocking them.

I was certainly more than surprised that the leash can be attached, but you can still detatch from the kite. Compared with many kites these days, it seems a bit of an anomoly, but I'm speaking of a very very limited experience. One only has to watch any Kite DVD shot even 2-3 years a go where they demo the quick release, and the systems are wildly different.

I guess my point is: I was complacent and inexperienced. In my defence I took time out to ask the questions, but due to the language barrier (I hired the kite overseas) I misunderstood the system. I took time to test the QR1 on the beach, but not the QR2 (detach). I guess that was the main mistake.

I get your point Salty and personally I think it is a very important point. I also fly single engine aircraft for a bit of fun and I guess one of the disciplines every time you get into an aircraft for the first time even if it is the same model as one you have flown before is to ensure you know and understand all of the safety systems and procedures of that particular aircraft and ensure you are familiar with them.

IMO kiting has similar risks but I am surprised how many times I go to a beach and find people kiting with Cab bars who do not understand all of the safety systems in the bar even though they have been using it for several sessions. (example only..) I think it is important with any sport where there is inherent risk to have a good set of procedures and safety checks to fall back on each and every time. For example one thing I do before every launch is go through in my mind my abort plan in the event something goes wrong. This is a discipline I learnt from flying aircraft where you go through an abort takeoff procedure before every takeoff. It gets your mind sharp and focussed in the event something goes wrong. I do a similar thing with my set up and ensure I have a pre-flight check list to review my set up before every launch where i mentally check my rigging from the leading edge all the way down to the bar. Goes something like: - kite (check the air pressure in the kite) - rig -(ensure the lines are connected properly bridles are not tangled) - lines (ensure there are not twist in the line as I walk down to the bar) - safety (final check to ensure all of my safety systems are set properly and ready to go if I have to rely on them) - pre take of briefing (mental run through of my abort plan as I am walking around to launch)

I know this may sound a little anal but I am a firm believer that discipline and structure create safety.

Hey KiteBT

I thanks for taking the time to write the below. Yes, I do something similar (usually). I also ensure I do two final checks, practice reaching for the quick release (1) with my had and the same with the release on the leash. I don't want to think about this, I want it to be instinct. I'm sure it will be useful for others new to the sport/hobby/activity/whatever-it-is.

"kite (check the air pressure in the kite) - rig -(ensure the lines are connected properly bridles are not tangled) - lines (ensure there are not twist in the line as I walk down to the bar) - safety (final check to ensure all of my safety systems are set properly and ready to go if I have to rely on them) - pre take of briefing (mental run through of my abort plan as I am walking around to launch) I know this may sound a little anal but I am a firm believer that discipline and structure create safety."

Familiarly breads contempt, and at times, I've forgotten to, say, untangle my centrelines and I had to land, retie and relaunch. All wasting valuable time on the water.

I find the most probable time I will make a mistake is when I hook-up with a down winder group. For whatever reason I'll change from doing a lines aft setup to a lines forward setup. Ironically it is usually so someone can launch me but I'm always slower to setup than most of the old salts around here so I have to self launch anyway. Inevitably screw it up and then have to do it all over again when my kite lofts with the lines tangled. If the wind ever approaches on-shore again this century I'll be sure to keep doing my stuff the same old way every time. Sometimes familiarity is a sure bet.

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Dl33ta said..

I find the most probable time I will make a mistake is when I hook-up with a down winder group. For whatever reason I'll change from doing a lines aft setup to a lines forward setup. Ironically it is usually so someone can launch me but I'm always slower to setup than most of the old salts around here so I have to self launch anyway. Inevitably screw it up and then have to do it all over again when my kite lofts with the lines tangled. If the wind ever approaches on-shore again this century I'll be sure to keep doing my stuff the same old way every time. Sometimes familiarity is a sure bet.

Yep, I heard that. I took a mate of mine from the old country to show him my awesome moves (like standing, falling, etc. off my kiteboard). I was a bit distracted as he was having a hell of a time with a trainer kite and forgot to un wrap my centre lines... which was annoying...

Cool thread, keeping me awake on a really dull work day.
Some of the tips are going to be helpful...

I have just kitted myself up (well 4-5 months ago now) after procrastinating while my mates talked kiting up for years, but haven't had a chance to get any of it wet yet...
Had a couple of lessons and seem to be going ok.

I guess I have been pretty lucky with the learning curve, I did a lot of wakeboarding in my teens and have raced/sailed fast small boats for the last 15 years.
I'm used to wearing a harness and know a little about wind just suck at riding right foot forward.
So concepts were in my head, I just have to teach my body to carry them out.

Borrowed my mates 17m edge a few weeks ago and played around in the pond with 12kts S.
Had to start right foot forward as I had no choice and made a big difference by the end of my endurance.
Still don't think I'm upwind yet but getting close.
Picking the angles by myself is tricky, I keep ending up reaching a little too low and get much speed to get my edge back in.
I lose ground as I goof trying to slow down or tack.
Working out how high I can aim before I start to luff the kite is hard when you pull in get up and just get into the 'yippeee I'm going fast' bit of being a noob.
Need to get used to a new board as well I guess.
I also have the bonus wake mentality of hang on tighter when things start going poo that I need to fix.
I'm not sure if the sailing terminology will translate but I also don't know if Kiters use anything else.

Need time and wind I think.

Welcome Shane. It certainly seems like you've got a great basis to rocket up the learning curve.

Goofy is a pain, but oddly I now prefer going goofy than standard. I think it's because I have more control in my leading goofy foot and the back foot can just sit there and behave.

The terminology seems to be a real bastardisation of sailing, wakeboarding, surfing, skateboarding, and some kiteboard specific terms. You'll pick it up... typically when you're standing on the beach with other kiters waiting for the wind to pick up.

Re goofy, you might want to consider practicing the stance in your down time?

Good luck with the progress and keep us up to date.

Has anyone used a control bar with a kite from a different manufacturer where the knots on the lines do not line up with the ones on the kite? Concrete example: I already had a Cabrinha IDS 2012 control bar, and subsequently picked up an ozone kite. When I tried to connect the lines, no luck: the overhand knots on the front lines were lined up with similar overhand knots on the kite, as opposed to a Cabrinha kite which has lark's head knots on the front bridles. The same thing with the steering lines: lark's had knots opposed to lark's head knots. Has anyone run into this situation? How did you handle it?

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golfaru said..

Has anyone used a control bar with a kite from a different manufacturer where the knots on the lines do not line up with the ones on the kite? Concrete example: I already had a Cabrinha IDS 2012 control bar, and subsequently picked up an ozone kite. When I tried to connect the lines, no luck: the overhand knots on the front lines were lined up with similar overhand knots on the kite, as opposed to a Cabrinha kite which has lark's head knots on the front bridles. The same thing with the steering lines: lark's had knots opposed to lark's head knots. Has anyone run into this situation? How did you handle it?

You can get line attachments that convert the ends from knots to loops and vice versa. Having said that, do not use cab bar on ozone kite. Ozone kites are designed to flag to a single front line. Cab bar flags to both front lines. You will not get full depower.

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golfaru said..

Has anyone used a control bar with a kite from a different manufacturer where the knots on the lines do not line up with the ones on the kite? Concrete example: I already had a Cabrinha IDS 2012 control bar, and subsequently picked up an ozone kite. When I tried to connect the lines, no luck: the overhand knots on the front lines were lined up with similar overhand knots on the kite, as opposed to a Cabrinha kite which has lark's head knots on the front bridles. The same thing with the steering lines: lark's had knots opposed to lark's head knots. Has anyone run into this situation? How did you handle it?

get some pigtails off another kite or online. Switch sells cheap pigtails.

Thanks guys! SpaceCoyote, this Ozone is the Uno model 2.5m (i.e. the trainer), so it works with any bar with 4 equal length lines.