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SaltySinus said..

Hey Nik, this is all part and parcel of learning to Kite. Yes it's a pain in the ar$e when you lose your board, but it's a very valuable lesson. Especially when one loses their board a good distance from shore and the only feasible way of getting back in is finding your board and kiting in...

You'll quickly move past losing your board every 5mins, and also master body dragging up wind.

"weird floaty board returning the board" - if you're referring to a board leash, it's my and many people's opinion that these things are bad bad bad (just google images for kite board leash and you'll see the results).

Unlike surfing, you can often get wretched by the kite in a different direction, causing the leashed board to swing like a pendulum and stopping on your face with pretty unpretty results.

think he means this



honestly... i wouldnt bother wasting the cash.
when you loose your board just focus on tacking body draggin up wind to get your board
dont venture to far in one direction and try have a look around for your board when u bring your kite up to 12 when changing directions...
you will need to learn this any because even when you have masted the basics of riding around you will also come off your board once per session so its good to be confident at body dragging.

Hey all,
Sorry to bring the thread down a level (you guys with your fancy backrolls and toeside riding!!) but I have a big time noob question. I?ve just started holding my line going downwind but I seem to be having trouble with actually keeping the board pointed downwind. Somehow my board ends up pointing too far upwind which usually results in a face first stack! I suspect I may be a bit special but if anyone has any tips on this they would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers guys and have a great long weekend

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glasstraxx said..

SaltySinus said..

Hey Nik, this is all part and parcel of learning to Kite. Yes it's a pain in the ar$e when you lose your board, but it's a very valuable lesson. Especially when one loses their board a good distance from shore and the only feasible way of getting back in is finding your board and kiting in...

You'll quickly move past losing your board every 5mins, and also master body dragging up wind.

"weird floaty board returning the board" - if you're referring to a board leash, it's my and many people's opinion that these things are bad bad bad (just google images for kite board leash and you'll see the results).

Unlike surfing, you can often get wretched by the kite in a different direction, causing the leashed board to swing like a pendulum and stopping on your face with pretty unpretty results.

think he means this



honestly... i wouldnt bother wasting the cash.
when you loose your board just focus on tacking body draggin up wind to get your board
dont venture to far in one direction and try have a look around for your board when u bring your kite up to 12 when changing directions...
you will need to learn this any because even when you have masted the basics of riding around you will also come off your board once per session so its good to be confident at body dragging.

thanks Glass. I've never seen such a device, but concur with your assessment. Waste of money and robs you of valuable body dragging experience.

On the subject of lost boards... once you get good at body dragging, you can give yourself a bit of height out of the water by gently pulling on the bar as move the kite from one direction to the other. I.e. as it passes over head, if you pull gently on the bar, you'll raise up out of the water, giving you a better perspective (pull too long and it will drag you down wind and you'll lose ground.).

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tippy said..

Hey all,
Sorry to bring the thread down a level (you guys with your fancy backrolls and toeside riding!!) but I have a big time noob question. I?ve just started holding my line going downwind but I seem to be having trouble with actually keeping the board pointed downwind. Somehow my board ends up pointing too far upwind which usually results in a face first stack! I suspect I may be a bit special but if anyone has any tips on this they would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers guys and have a great long weekend

This thread has previously bottomed out, so there's no bringing it down further, don't worry!

I think you'll get there with experience. When you learn, you spend a lot of time worrying about the kite and the feet are the lowest priority. I'd suggest picking a point on the horizon that you aim for that's the 'right direction' in relation to the wind. I.e. about 90 degress to the direction of the kite. Keep your shoulders back and relax into the stance. i appreciate I'm one remark off 'just use the force', but over time it becomes like driving a car, and you don't think about the manual operation of turning the wheel or selecting a gear, you go where you look.

The "weird floaty board returning thingo" is a Go-Joe.
http://www.oceanrodeo.com/products/go_joe
I know a guy that got a fair bit of use out of one for a while, but once you get more confident with body dragging you probably won't want to have the additional bulk on your board. As well as drifting downwind a bit quicker, they do make your board easier to see. They also advertise that you're a newbie, so others might giive you a bit more room out on the water.

Yeah, that's the floaty I was talking about....

Had better luck yesterday, got back to my board quickly and easily. I think the key is just to remain calm and act logically. The other day I kinda panicked a bit at the thought of my brand new board disappearing, and therfore made things worse.

I think I'll hold of on buying the floaty for now.

I learn't last night if you get a knot in your lines and you can't undo it, chew on it for a minute of two and it will come out easy.

My first post on here. Long time lurker.

What i learned today was never give up when you're trying to get the water start thing down. been trying and really not getting it together for the past few sessions. time not wasted however as my kite control and body dragging have all come a long way since the board lesson back in feb.

One of the local instructors who was at Altona finishing a lesson suggested I try one simple thing as she'd seen me struggling (I'd basically get up and going for a couple metres and then sink). She told me to pull the bar ALL the way in before making a more emphatic power stroke - and what do you know, even in the by the marginal wind - I was up and going for at least 10 or 20 metres skimming along!

The other thing she said to try was to let the kite out a little and work it just a little between 1 and 2. Which seemed to prolong the ride and made me more aware of the kite and less worried about what the board was doing.

Anyway, I guess like many other have said, you can read all the webpages and watch all the videos; but with water starts, ultimately you just have to get and keep enough power and things will eventually come together.

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glasstraxx said..

SaltySinus said..

Hey Nik, this is all part and parcel of learning to Kite. Yes it's a pain in the ar$e when you lose your board, but it's a very valuable lesson. Especially when one loses their board a good distance from shore and the only feasible way of getting back in is finding your board and kiting in...

You'll quickly move past losing your board every 5mins, and also master body dragging up wind.

"weird floaty board returning the board" - if you're referring to a board leash, it's my and many people's opinion that these things are bad bad bad (just google images for kite board leash and you'll see the results).

Unlike surfing, you can often get wretched by the kite in a different direction, causing the leashed board to swing like a pendulum and stopping on your face with pretty unpretty results.

think he means this



honestly... i wouldnt bother wasting the cash.
when you loose your board just focus on tacking body draggin up wind to get your board
dont venture to far in one direction and try have a look around for your board when u bring your kite up to 12 when changing directions...
you will need to learn this any because even when you have masted the basics of riding around you will also come off your board once per session so its good to be confident at body dragging.

hey White pointers like the colour yellow....... makes them very mellow... lol . jokes aside think all beginers and evan some intermediate kiters should use it especially when u doing down winders deep in the ocean. Best thing ever made I wish it was arround when i started kiting

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bfg said..

My first post on here. Long time lurker.

What i learned today was never give up when you're trying to get the water start thing down. been trying and really not getting it together for the past few sessions. time not wasted however as my kite control and body dragging have all come a long way since the board lesson back in feb.

One of the local instructors who was at Altona finishing a lesson suggested I try one simple thing as she'd seen me struggling (I'd basically get up and going for a couple metres and then sink). She told me to pull the bar ALL the way in before making a more emphatic power stroke - and what do you know, even in the by the marginal wind - I was up and going for at least 10 or 20 metres skimming along!

The other thing she said to try was to let the kite out a little and work it just a little between 1 and 2. Which seemed to prolong the ride and made me more aware of the kite and less worried about what the board was doing.

Anyway, I guess like many other have said, you can read all the webpages and watch all the videos; but with water starts, ultimately you just have to get and keep enough power and things will eventually come together.

The other thing I had to figure out before water starts became easy was to push the bar out after that downward stroke. When learning to water start I was finding I was getting up and moving fron the powerstroke fine, but if I didn't release the bar as I moved the kite back up, it would often choke the kite and I'd lose power and sink down after a short distance. I imagine this is partially kite dependant, and is certainly wind dependant, but it made a lot of difference to me. Also don't be afraid to keep working (sineing) the kite aggressively in low wind take offs / transitions until you have enough speed.

A lesson learned for me is, I much prefer the 4 line Dice over the 5 line Rebel. Both are great kites, but I find the former more forgiving. Discuss.

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SaltySinus said..
A lesson learned for me is, I much prefer the 4 line Dice over the 5 line Rebel. Both are great kites, but I find the former more forgiving. Discuss.

Ive gone from the 5 line rebels to 4 line North Neo. V. different from Dice, but it also is a beautfully gentle beast. Very forgiving, and particularly good kiting down wind. Weather riding waves or on down winders. Its a nice thing to be at the stage where you can actually tell some differnences between kites!

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Dave Whettingsteel said..

Its a nice thing to be at the stage where you can actually tell some differnences between kites!

Agree fully! Ah, I feel like an old pro (not *that* kind of pro... well, also that, but for different reasons).



How is the Neo different to the Dice? Apart from obviously having a superior name, given the North is using the collective term for a single instance of something).

Kind regards,
SaltySinuses

Haha yes a kite whore for sure!

The Neo is more wave oriented, ie drifts well, flips from side to side quickly whereas the Dice is more of an all rounder. However Ive never flow a Dice so Im only repeating what other people say..

But when you look at the Neo its really short and fat compared to the old rebel. Not sure how its profile compares to the Dice.

Eppo Help!!!

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SaltySinus said...

glasstraxx said..

SaltySinus said..

Hey Nik, this is all part and parcel of learning to Kite. Yes it's a pain in the ar$e when you lose your board, but it's a very valuable lesson. Especially when one loses their board a good distance from shore and the only feasible way of getting back in is finding your board and kiting in...

You'll quickly move past losing your board every 5mins, and also master body dragging up wind.

"weird floaty board returning the board" - if you're referring to a board leash, it's my and many people's opinion that these things are bad bad bad (just google images for kite board leash and you'll see the results).

Unlike surfing, you can often get wretched by the kite in a different direction, causing the leashed board to swing like a pendulum and stopping on your face with pretty unpretty results.

think he means this



honestly... i wouldnt bother wasting the cash.
when you loose your board just focus on tacking body draggin up wind to get your board
dont venture to far in one direction and try have a look around for your board when u bring your kite up to 12 when changing directions...
you will need to learn this any because even when you have masted the basics of riding around you will also come off your board once per session so its good to be confident at body dragging.

thanks Glass. I've never seen such a device, but concur with your assessment. Waste of money and robs you of valuable body dragging experience.

On the subject of lost boards... once you get good at body dragging, you can give yourself a bit of height out of the water by gently pulling on the bar as move the kite from one direction to the other. I.e. as it passes over head, if you pull gently on the bar, you'll raise up out of the water, giving you a better perspective (pull too long and it will drag you down wind and you'll lose ground.).

I still get amazed at the ostriches with their heads in the sand with regards to this TOTALY AWESOME product. If you like body dragging in sharky murky waterways and dealing with other kiters whizzing by your head while you're ruining your upwind streak to lift your kite so you won't tangle anyone and love cursing loudly, lots, in the process. If you like kiting northerly current with southerly wind so you can take out a smaller kite and boost sick or if you like having guys you have never met go 500 m out to sea to chase your brand new but newly about to be lost TT, then DON'T GET ONE OF THESE. Cause you will never have to body drag upwind ever again if you do. If you enjoy the indulgent thrill of knowing you could easily lose your TT in this waterway because you dont' have a snowflakes chance in the sahara of getting to your TT, then DON'T GET ONE OF THESE.
I know it sounds a drag not ever body dragging again. SO DON'T BE TEMPTED, BE A MAN AND FACE FACTS. YOU HAVE TO BODY DRAG LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
I came off about 6 times on Tuesday and because unfortunately, I had one of these on my board, I was robbed the opportunity for some joyous upwind body dragging. My mate however was much more well prepared & without one of these to hamper him he enjoyed about 30min of body dragging for 3 falls and aN 800m walk up the beach, to meet a brand new kiter friend who had travelled out to sea to fetch his Naish Motion.
He was AS stoked I was jealous OF HIS GOOD FORTUNE, but of course I was gracious & simply congratulated him on a great session of body dragging. I'm getting rid of mine, I not selling it cause I don't want anyone robbed of all the fun I'm gonna have upwind body dragging for hours again just like when I lost all those TT in the broadwater when I was a newb.
Yes these things SUCK, DON'T GET ONE!

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tippy said...
Hey all,
Sorry to bring the thread down a level (you guys with your fancy backrolls and toeside riding!!) but I have a big time noob question. I?ve just started holding my line going downwind but I seem to be having trouble with actually keeping the board pointed downwind. Somehow my board ends up pointing too far upwind which usually results in a face first stack! I suspect I may be a bit special but if anyone has any tips on this they would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers guys and have a great long weekend

Tippy, I suggest you try:

1. Flatten the board out if you want to go down wind (if you edge hard it will turn you upwind)

2. Push the bar out a bit and let the kite come back in the wind window (if you keep the bar hard in you will tend to bring it to the front of the wind window and therefore more upwind).

Thanks Salty and Peterc! Definitely will try those tips next time there's wind. Hopefully some time before next season...

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Peterc150 said...


2. Push the bar out a bit and let the kite come back in the wind window (if you keep the bar hard in you will tend to bring it to the front of the wind window and therefore more upwind).

Not sure if I understand this Pete. In my experience if you push the bar out, the kite will fly to the edge of the window and therefore pull you more upwind. Conversely, if you keep the bar pulled in, the kite will sit deeper in the wind window, and therefore pull you more downwind.

I could (most likely!) be wrong, but I think it might be something to do with choking the kite by keeping the bar too far in? It's happened to me a few times in light winds, right before I pulled in too far and accidentally unhooked..

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ice said...

Peterc150 said...


2. Push the bar out a bit and let the kite come back in the wind window (if you keep the bar hard in you will tend to bring it to the front of the wind window and therefore more upwind).

Not sure if I understand this Pete. In my experience if you push the bar out, the kite will fly to the edge of the window and therefore pull you more upwind. Conversely, if you keep the bar pulled in, the kite will sit deeper in the wind window, and therefore pull you more downwind.

Howdy Ice,

I guess it's all about experience and body position etc. After struggling for months trying to go upwind, I went out and was massively over powered due to high wind storm passing through. The only way to keep my edge and not be pulled over the board was to pull the bar right in to choke the kite at the edge of the wind window, and edge real hard. This had the effect of taking me upwind... even if I didn't want to go up wind.

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SaltySinus said...

ice said...

Peterc150 said...


2. Push the bar out a bit and let the kite come back in the wind window (if you keep the bar hard in you will tend to bring it to the front of the wind window and therefore more upwind).

Not sure if I understand this Pete. In my experience if you push the bar out, the kite will fly to the edge of the window and therefore pull you more upwind. Conversely, if you keep the bar pulled in, the kite will sit deeper in the wind window, and therefore pull you more downwind.

Howdy Ice,

I guess it's all about experience and body position etc. After struggling for months trying to go upwind, I went out and was massively over powered due to high wind storm passing through. The only way to keep my edge and not be pulled over the board was to pull the bar right in to choke the kite at the edge of the wind window, and edge real hard. This had the effect of taking me upwind... even if I didn't want to go up wind.

To clarify,

Push the bar out a little if the kite is choked with the bar right in. It should then gain power and tend to pull more downwind.

Don't push the bar right out or the kite will lose power and fly right up to the edge of the wind window.

Experiment with bar in/out/middle positions to see what works.

Look downwind where you want to go.

I have spent so many hours un-tangling lines at the beach, that I now take my rear lines off the pigtails on my bar. This way I only have to wrap the other three up and I save heaps of time. No matter how much time I take tying my lines there always seems to be a few tangles. My bar is really ASIC, and doesn't have any elastic ties on the bar ends to finish my lines with, so I use a shoelace across my line halfway and at the end whilst winding onto the bar. I have never seen anybody else do either of these things, but it works for me, and I have never had to untangle since.

There is nothing worse then to spend too long untangling lines, and watching the wind die as you finish.
That damned Melbourne weather.

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Ragzilla said...
I have spent so many hours un-tangling lines at the beach, that I now take my rear lines off the pigtails on my bar. This way I only have to wrap the other three up and I save heaps of time. No matter how much time I take tying my lines there always seems to be a few tangles. My bar is really ASIC, and doesn't have any elastic ties on the bar ends to finish my lines with, so I use a shoelace across my line halfway and at the end whilst winding onto the bar. I have never seen anybody else do either of these things, but it works for me, and I have never had to untangle since.

There is nothing worse then to spend too long untangling lines, and watching the wind die as you finish.
That damned Melbourne weather.

Hi Rag, you're right there is nothing worse than spending hours untangling. I spent a lot of time at the beginning doing the same, but found one gets into a routine or wrapping the lines up neatly at the end of your session to save time at the start of your next session.

I've found that a couple of backrolls (on one side) is enough to properly wrap up my centre lines, nad Im spendign more and more time these days untangling centre lines before going out...

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SaltySinus said...

Ragzilla said...
I have spent so many hours un-tangling lines at the beach, that I now take my rear lines off the pigtails on my bar. This way I only have to wrap the other three up and I save heaps of time. No matter how much time I take tying my lines there always seems to be a few tangles. My bar is really ASIC, and doesn't have any elastic ties on the bar ends to finish my lines with, so I use a shoelace across my line halfway and at the end whilst winding onto the bar. I have never seen anybody else do either of these things, but it works for me, and I have never had to untangle since.

There is nothing worse then to spend too long untangling lines, and watching the wind die as you finish.
That damned Melbourne weather.

Hi Rag, you're right there is nothing worse than spending hours untangling. I spent a lot of time at the beginning doing the same, but found one gets into a routine or wrapping the lines up neatly at the end of your session to save time at the start of your next session.

I've found that a couple of backrolls (on one side) is enough to properly wrap up my centre lines, nad Im spendign more and more time these days untangling centre lines before going out...

Instead of untangling your lines after a couple of backrolls on land, why don't you do a backroll then do a downloop to 'unwind' your centrelines or use the roto head whilst you are cruising along to unwind your lines??? You come off the water with all lines straight, nothing twisted and less time next time.....just a thought

Well this really isn't a lesson learnt, but an expression of how much fun I had on my last kiting session.

As a beginner I'm learning a lot, but on Wednesday down at Rosebud I had the best continuous run upwind so far. I'd say it was for around 100m maybe a touch more and the feeling was amazing. The sound of the wind and water rushing by, being able to be comfortable enough to look in the direction I want to go and enjoy it for all its worth. I just don't have words to describe it, the best I could manage was a squeal of excitement and shouting YEAH!!!!!

Also big shout out to Daniel who took the time to introduce me to Rosebud, show me a few pointers (not the white versions) and make sure I was doing ok.

Ok, well I did learn a lesson. Don't be afraid of the weather reporting showing 20knots and you're running with a 12M, often its not that strong and you're wanting more POWA!!!!

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Sammyjay said...
Well this really isn't a lesson learnt, but an expression of how much fun I had on my last kiting session.

As a beginner I'm learning a lot, but on Wednesday down at Rosebud I had the best continuous run upwind so far. I'd say it was for around 100m maybe a touch more and the feeling was amazing. The sound of the wind and water rushing by, being able to be comfortable enough to look in the direction I want to go and enjoy it for all its worth. I just don't have words to describe it, the best I could manage was a squeal of excitement and shouting YEAH!!!!!

Also big shout out to Daniel who took the time to introduce me to Rosebud, show me a few pointers (not the white versions) and make sure I was doing ok.

Ok, well I did learn a lesson. Don't be afraid of the weather reporting showing 20knots and you're running with a 12M, often its not that strong and you're wanting more POWA!!!!

You did well that day sam, if we had a bit more wind you'd find it easier because you were having to work the kite so much. You had your natural foot sorted by the end and my bigger board seemed to do the trick for that. Going goofy (the other way) will click for you pretty soon. And you were also going upwind that day as well which is a good effort! Bit more wind and you can park the kite and follow it and it will all come together! By the way days like that are good to learn how to work the kite and keep your body in the right position at the same time! Don't undersell yourself, a lot of beginners wouldn't have had runs as good as yours that day! Lookin forward to seeing you go again and start to sort out your goofy!

By the way, whenever you see me out just call out and you can grab my bigger board again. It's much easier to learn on!

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Daniel1973 said..

Sammyjay said...
Well this really isn't a lesson learnt, but an expression of how much fun I had on my last kiting session.

As a beginner I'm learning a lot, but on Wednesday down at Rosebud I had the best continuous run upwind so far. I'd say it was for around 100m maybe a touch more and the feeling was amazing. The sound of the wind and water rushing by, being able to be comfortable enough to look in the direction I want to go and enjoy it for all its worth. I just don't have words to describe it, the best I could manage was a squeal of excitement and shouting YEAH!!!!!

Also big shout out to Daniel who took the time to introduce me to Rosebud, show me a few pointers (not the white versions) and make sure I was doing ok.

Ok, well I did learn a lesson. Don't be afraid of the weather reporting showing 20knots and you're running with a 12M, often its not that strong and you're wanting more POWA!!!!

You did well that day sam, if we had a bit more wind you'd find it easier because you were having to work the kite so much. You had your natural foot sorted by the end and my bigger board seemed to do the trick for that. Going goofy (the other way) will click for you pretty soon. And you were also going upwind that day as well which is a good effort! Bit more wind and you can park the kite and follow it and it will all come together! By the way days like that are good to learn how to work the kite and keep your body in the right position at the same time! Don't undersell yourself, a lot of beginners wouldn't have had runs as good as yours that day! Lookin forward to seeing you go again and start to sort out your goofy!

Yeah, goofy for me is true to its name, it feels like im learning to walk again and not doing a very good job at it. That will certainly take some time to feel comfortable.

Coral is not your friend...

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SaltySinus said..
Coral is not your friend...

Nor razor fish, any sharks, trees, random people, cars and trucks.