Been riding an Ozone Reo 2012 for the last few years. Good kite but I find it hard to go right, into the wind, here in perth in the prevailing SW wind. I'm wondering if a kite that flies more forward in the window would make it easier to properly go right and surf the wave. So, does anyone have a wave kite that flies forward in the window and makes it easier to surf the wave into the wind??? Are there any downsides to a kite that flies fairly forward??? Love to hear some comments from experienced wave riders that have flown a range of kites. Cheers

Kites that depower more or fly upwind better are better at this, but the main thing is being on the smallest kite you can for the conditions. Smaller kite means more depower. Maybe you need more sizes? The other thing is riding a bigger board allows you to ride a smaller kite. So your board size and range of kites might be the problem.

I have found the best kites for wave riding sit forward in the window when powered and back when depowered. Not many kites do this well or at all. To surf on a kite drift is king. If you haven't/cant ride a wave with 5+ seconds of slack line keep looking for something better. I say this because the other direction - downwind gives the closest feeling to surfing on a wave you can get with a kite.

The kite is 8m and my board is 5,11 with enough buoyancy, and I'm 77 kg so that's all about right for most days when the wind blows in summer.....

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wavenator said...
Kites that depower more or fly upwind better are better at this, but the main thing is being on the smallest kite you can for the conditions. Smaller kite means more depower. Maybe you need more sizes? The other thing is riding a bigger board allows you to ride a smaller kite. So your board size and range of kites might be the problem.

I have found the best kites for wave riding sit forward in the window when powered and back when depowered. Not many kites do this well or at all. To surf on a kite drift is king. If you haven't/cant ride a wave with 5+ seconds of slack line keep looking for something better. I say this because the other direction - downwind gives the closest feeling to surfing on a wave you can get with a kite.

So, what is an example of a kite that sits forward when powered and back when depowered???

Maybe someone else will answer that I am not into dick swinging. But it's not what you were asking no? You wanted upwind? 5'11 doesn't say much about board size, yes the length is reasonable you could even go shorter, it is 22inches wide no? :-) Yes yes buoyancy is very very important. I keep telling the hydrofoil boys their hydrofoils need more buoyancy so they can win more races. None of them are listening to me.

To be serious you could be on a 7 or 6 or even a 5 at that weight with the right board. Ignore the thickness its area that is important, try a potato etc.

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wavenator said...
Maybe someone else will answer that I am not into dick swinging. But it's not what you were asking no? You wanted upwind? 5'11 doesn't say much about board size, yes the length is reasonable you could even go shorter, it is 22inches wide no? :-) Yes yes buoyancy is very very important. I keep telling the hydrofoil boys their hydrofoils need more buoyancy so they can win more races. None of them are listening to me.

To be serious you could be on a 7 or 6 or even a 5 at that weight with the right board. Ignore the thickness its area that is important, try a potato etc.

Don't worry about it mate, cheers anyway.

Go left.
If you want to go right, surf.

Or move to the East Coast.

No wave kite will go into the wind well. They are all low aspect and designed to drift and sit back in the window. As tight lines suggests. Go left and surf down the line with the wind and drift the kite if you want to be as closed to surfing as possible.

Riding a wave upwind is not considered "proper" wave riding.

That said who gives a ****. If you like it, do it. I enjoy a good upwind wave ride then boost session on the way out.

The answer to your question is that you need to look outside "wave kite" kites to improve upwind ability significantly. Look for a higher aspect kite. Almost all kites on the market can ride waves upwind. Hell. I ride my ozone chrono upwind on the wave face!!! its a race foil ! but sweet riding the wave upwind. Its only when you want to drift down the line than you need wave kites.

One the locals here who concentrates on upwind wave riding uses ozone edges. I use the edge too in the bigger sizes.


Having said all of that. Unless you are riding cross cross off you should easily be able to track upwind on the wave face on your current wave kite.

You'd want a kite that goes upwind well but also drifts when you want to do a cutback. I'd try a North Neo, heard they have real good bottom end. You could always upgrade your Reo as the new ones had a lot better upwind ability. I ride a 8m 2013 Reo and I find it struggles when I don't have the right wind, but when it does I love it. I got a 2014 and 2015 Reo and they have a lot better bottom end. I wouldn't go for an edge or anything like that, you'd just be tacking (not sure of the spelling) off the wave and not really riding it.

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tightlines said..
Go left.
If you want to go right, surf.

Or move to the East Coast.

Actually ...

Here in WA, all kiters go right (hard and tight) initially,,,

so as to achieve maximum length of waveride,

prior to swinging into a cranking bottom-turn,

in preparation for the lefthand, bearaway, down-the-line, high-trim mini-glide ...

unless of course the wind direction is super cross-offshore tending offshore.

Are you natural or goofy?
Gybe or toe side?
You will always be able to point higher upwind on your heel side.

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Spark said..
Are you natural or goofy?

Good question. ^^^

I was thinking the same .

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Brohan said...
You'd want a kite that goes upwind well but also drifts when you want to do a cutback. I'd try a North Neo, heard they have real good bottom end. You could always upgrade your Reo as the new ones had a lot better upwind ability. I ride a 8m 2013 Reo and I find it struggles when I don't have the right wind, but when it does I love it. I got a 2014 and 2015 Reo and they have a lot better bottom end. I wouldn't go for an edge or anything like that, you'd just be tacking (not sure of the spelling) off the wave and not really riding it.

Cheers Brohan, this is the sort of response I was looking for. I'm a natural, so like all naturals I like going right when I surf (not that I don't like going left too). I like my kite, but perhaps an upgrade might give slightly better upwind ability and give me a little more of what I am looking for. Anyone else got comments on specific kites and their abilities??

I only enjoy riding waves upwind when the wind is light, too much wind & the kite just wants to drag you off the wave & downwind.

I'm a goofy footer on the east coast, so I feel your pain Marno

Consider a kite upgrade, the 2012 Reo was undersized, your 8M is really a 7M in most other comparable kites. See if you can find an 8M 2014/15 Reo. Ride with a sliding spreader system, definitely makes it easier to ride upwind toeside, which is what you are doing as a natural.

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wavenator said...
Kites that depower more or fly upwind better are better at this, but the main thing is being on the smallest kite you can for the conditions. Smaller kite means more depower. Maybe you need more sizes? The other thing is riding a bigger board allows you to ride a smaller kite. So your board size and range of kites might be the problem.

I have found the best kites for wave riding sit forward in the window when powered and back when depowered. Not many kites do this well or at all. To surf on a kite drift is king. If you haven't/cant ride a wave with 5+ seconds of slack line keep looking for something better. I say this because the other direction - downwind gives the closest feeling to surfing on a wave you can get with a kite.

What kite sits back in the window when depowered?

+1 to small kite but add some line length for the low end

try the nugget ... 5"2 it's great for up wind wave riding and Neo 5 m for 18 knot plus and sub 18 get a 7m.
I fly a ozone zephyr 17m in 10 knots and have no drama riding upwind on the wave with a nugget.
The drifter , reo,Neo ,airush wave go upwind up the wave better that all rounder kites.
Demo all of the wave kites.
Try locations with more side onshore conditions as apposed to side shore.Side on gives you a better trajectory upwind up the wave with no pull from the kite!
2012 is vintage kite bro .2015 /16 kites are much more dynamic.

Hmm, might be a new kite then for this season. I've got a wave harness that slides to the side so all good there... I've been wondering how far wave kites have advanced since my 2012 Reo, from the sounds of it maybe a noticeable difference....

Tell me Marno,

The southwest wind you speak of. Is it cross shore, cross on, or cross off?

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Plummet said...
Tell me Marno,

The southwest wind you speak of. Is it cross shore, cross on, or cross off?

Pretty much all my kiting is the downwinder from city beach to trigg in perth, so the sou'wester is cross on for the most part I spose...

Try the Madora bay to secret harbour downwinder it a bit more onshore than the city's to trigg. It's a better spot if you like upwind wave riding.
That city's to trigg can almost side shore if it's direct south wind.

Never really thought about it but Im assuming alot of Wa kiters are very good on there switch for this reason especially as alot of guys prefer to face the wave. Vic winds donty.t compare to WA but we get more direction variety and usually a wave spot to suit. What about the south west coast?

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Plummet said..
Tell me Marno,

The southwest wind you speak of. Is it cross shore, cross on, or cross off?

So you are riding cross on doing downwinder runs having trouble on the upwind tack natural stance?
Do you happen to be riding toeside on this tack?
Perhaps its your toeside that needs work as apposed to the kite.

The reason for this is the 2012 reo easily runs upwind on the wave in cross on conditions. The only time it doesn't is when its not powered up enough. Also Once on the wave its self you should be able to use the wave to push you upwind. I'm thinking its more of a technique issue than a kite issue.

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marno said..
Hmm, might be a new kite then for this season. I've got a wave harness that slides to the side so all good there... I've been wondering how far wave kites have advanced since my 2012 Reo, from the sounds of it maybe a noticeable difference....

and

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Pretty much all my kiting is the downwinder from city beach to trigg in perth, so the sou'wester is cross on for the most part I spose...

So when you are riding downwind in Perth you are riding backhand and thats a bit boring or something? Perhaps consider trying to ride switch, so ride upwind backhand, then when a good section appears to your left turn and hack it goofy/frontside. I've learned to do it and it makes a big difference for me, just being more versatile, easier to get out in messy conditions heelside for me, but I do use straps, but could switch easier when I rode strapless.
The 2012 reo had no trouble going upwind, in fact it was one of the best at the time, but it was undersized as I said and you do need to be powered to get the best upwind performance from it, although being on the face of the wave should help. If you are more riding out in front of the wave, upwind, then the wave is not helping at all.

+1 on Plummet. Lack of excellent upwind kite performance is quickly compensated by using the waves to take you upwind on your way back in. Also keep away from areas of stronger currents that take you downwind too. At my local the point breaks its worth doing shorter tacks and using waves rather then venturing out on a long tack that takes you into faster downwind currents. An undersized/underpowered board with too much rocker for the conditions will see you shoot downwind, whatever your kite, as will too much weight on the backfoot. Its all a question of getting mix right for your spot, great upwind boards tend to be stiffer and faster but less fun on the wave, but good for onshore where that helps getting out - great upwind kites tend to be less comfortable coming back on the wave.I find the Neo or the new BWS Aeneema have the kite mix about right for a wide range of conditions, but havnt tried many other brands.

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marno said...
The kite is 8m and my board is 5,11 with enough buoyancy, and I'm 77 kg so that's all about right for most days when the wind blows in summer.....

What board are you riding Marno (We know it,s a 5'11 & your 77kg).

Its a very fine line in perth. some days when there is too much south in it, you cant get a good right all day, sometimes with a bit more west its smoking!

Technique has a lot to do with it. lots of weight on the front foot. keep the kite sheeted in as far and as hard as you can - it will move to the edge of the window, and pull you further upwind. you need smaller kites or less wind - cant do it overpowered. Im same size as you, and usually ride an 8m 2012 reo, with a 5'10.

You have to set the waves up from further out, cant just spin when you see one - it takes 10 or so meters to set your line and get the kite in the right position.

Dynabar or similar - it seems like you already have one.

Below is a dodgy gopro vid of one session at trigg last season - I pretty much only go right. some waves i get a decent angle on, others I cant get close to the face. i set up most of them from a fair way out, but hard to see that with the fisheye effect of the gopro

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spikeysteve said...
Its a very fine line in perth. some days when there is too much south in it, you cant get a good right all day, sometimes with a bit more west its smoking!

Technique has a lot to do with it. lots of weight on the front foot. keep the kite sheeted in as far and as hard as you can - it will move to the edge of the window, and pull you further upwind. you need smaller kites or less wind - cant do it overpowered. Im same size as you, and usually ride an 8m 2012 reo, with a 5'10.

You have to set the waves up from further out, cant just spin when you see one - it takes 10 or so meters to set your line and get the kite in the right position.

Dynabar or similar - it seems like you already have one.

Below is a dodgy gopro vid of one session at trigg last season - I pretty much only go right. some waves i get a decent angle on, others I cant get close to the face. i set up most of them from a fair way out, but hard to see that with the fisheye effect of the gopro

Good post mate, cheers..

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marno said..
Been riding an Ozone Reo 2012 for the last few years. Good kite but I find it hard to go right, into the wind, here in perth in the prevailing SW wind. I'm wondering if a kite that flies more forward in the window would make it easier to properly go right and surf the wave. So, does anyone have a wave kite that flies forward in the window and makes it easier to surf the wave into the wind??? Are there any downsides to a kite that flies fairly forward??? Love to hear some comments from experienced wave riders that have flown a range of kites. Cheers

hey Marno, I had the same problem until I found the Ocean Rodeo Prodigy. Best kite bar none for this m8.
Nige is doing a 2 week special on these for VERY cheap. so check out
http://www.eastcoastkitesurfing.com.au/product/ocean-rodeo-prodigy/
and then contact Nige for the deal.

I don't do many downwinders so I needed a kite like this. Was shredding the northerly at belongil yesterday. The kite is as stable as gibralter and stays where you put it. When you do run down wind it 's awesome to send as you approach a crest and doesn't yank you off leaving you to surf the turn like you would without a kite. Totally frothin on these. Today's looking good also ;) have fun m8
yeww

this thread is beginning to smell of penis.

^^^ and you know what penis smells like?? I guess you know what it tastes like too!!