Despite the fact I wasn't talking literally. I will indulge you. Say I had as you had asserted, is there something wrong with that? Why is that? Would my gender matter if I had? Btw what is my gender? Really interested in your view. Do you have any views on people of different race as well? Please do tell.

Gotta confess I'm liking the sound of the Switch Element v4, just waiting for one of you blokes to review one here, I don't take too much stock in the reviews on their website. At about $700 for a brand new 7m, and if it does what it apparently is supposed to, I'd give it a go....

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marno said..
Gotta confess I'm liking the sound of the Switch Element v4, just waiting for one of you blokes to review one here, I don't take too much stock in the reviews on their website. At about $700 for a brand new 7m, and if it does what it apparently is supposed to, I'd give it a go....

I was going to mention the Element 4 I have the Element 3 in 9 and 13m. Whilst I do not surf with them, the V4 is supposed to be even more suited to wave compared to the V3. All I can say about my V3s is that they are fantastic & easy to fly "park and ride" kites which have the bonus of drifting in the surf. I prefer them to my switchblades...

Remember, if you don't like it, you can always send it back and get a refund (minus shipping back obviously).

Marno, although I said you should go left if you want to kite waves in WA I know some folks would rather go right.
If you want to do this IMO you want the smallest kite you can get away with, one that flies forward in the window and goes really well upwind.
I wish I could tell you about the Element v4 but I have never flown them, I am considering one though.
I know my kite of choice but would prefer not to mention it on here, at 90kg I am usually on the 7 but drop back to the 5 when I can.


PM on the way.

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tightlines said...
Marno, although I said you should go left if you want to kite waves in WA I know some folks would rather go right.
If you want to do this IMO you want the smallest kite you can get away with, one that flies forward in the window and goes really well upwind.
I wish I could tell you about the Element v4 but I have never flown them, I am considering one though.
I know my kite of choice but would prefer not to mention it on here, at 90kg I am usually on the 7 but drop back to the 5 when I can.


PM on the way.

Cheers mate. Fwiw I do like going left, and there's nothing like cranking a hard backhand rio, but I do also like going right which is why I am thinking of going for a kite that might be a little better upwind than my 2012 Reo. Really looking forward to reading an unbiased review of the element 4 from someone I can trust....

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marno said..

Cheers mate. Fwiw I do like going left, and there's nothing like cranking a hard backhand rio, but I do also like going right which is why I am thinking of going for a kite that might be a little better upwind than my 2012 Reo. Really looking forward to reading an unbiased review of the element 4 from someone I can trust....

The trouble is any reviews of Switch kites are usually seen as pimping because of their team rider set up, so even if someone is frothing over their new kite because they truly love it, it is seen as biased.

In reality it is hard to get a unbiased review of any brand kite because most reviews are either from retailers, team riders or someone who has handed over their hard earned cash so they want to justify their purchase.
That and the fact that everyone has different preferences of how they want their kite to fly and the style of kiting they do.

Although the early Reo's were a bit gutless they were/are a really good wave kite that go upwind well, any kite will feel like it is trying to pull against you when the wave is going one way and the wind the other.

Although I am a natural footer I always switch when coming back in because I find I can go upwind better healside and you are then not all twisted, I sometimes stay goofy when going right because of that reason. (that is of course in WA with a SWer blowing)

Why don't you just buy a 7mtr Element an give us your unbiased opinion, I am seriously curious how they go as well.

... Just made a proposal to Switch via their website forum that they should give me a 7m element4 so I can give an unbiased review. If they wanna kickstart sales of this kite in Oz they might go for it!

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marno said...
... Just made a proposal to Switch via their website forum that they should give me a 7m element4 so I can give an unbiased review. If they wanna kickstart sales of this kite in Oz they might go for it!

I saw it, I think you're pushing your luck too much... The kites are cheap, free shipping so JUSY BUY ONE and review it for us then send it back if you didn't like it

And btw I reviewed the element 3 on their website and I'm not a team rider...

For a wave Kite there's nothing wrong with the upwind performance of the 2012 REO.

Have you checked your line lengths are equal?

I've only flown the V1 Element. Nice Kite and not much different from the 2012 REO, though I thought the REO was a slightly better wave Kite with better upwind performance. As both kites have evolved since then I'm guessing you wouldn't find much difference in upwind performance between them now.

No kite's perfect but If you're not happy with the REO in waves you might find it hard to find something better

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Alysum said...

marno said...
... Just made a proposal to Switch via their website forum that they should give me a 7m element4 so I can give an unbiased review. If they wanna kickstart sales of this kite in Oz they might go for it!

I saw it, I think you're pushing your luck too much... The kites are cheap, free shipping so JUSY BUY ONE and review it for us then send it back if you didn't like it

And btw I reviewed the element 3 on their website and I'm not a team rider...

that is a good plan except we have zero wind in WA at the moment !

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Hunter S said..
For a wave Kite there's nothing wrong with the upwind performance of the 2012 REO.

Have you checked your line lengths are equal?

I've only flown the V1 Element. Nice Kite and not much different from the 2012 REO, though I thought the REO was a slightly better wave Kite with better upwind performance. As both kites have evolved since then I'm guessing you wouldn't find much difference in upwind performance between them now.

No kite's perfect but If you're not happy with the REO in waves you might find it hard to find something better

Actually no I haven't checked my line lengths, and did notice last season things weren't quite perfect in the way she flies. I'm gonna replace them before this season, haven't ever changed them truth be told. Its not that I'm not happy with the 2012 REO, I was just asking is there a wave kite that flies more forward in the window, hence making it easier to go right. If the answer is no, then its no, but since i haven't flown any of the newer wave kites keen to get some feedback from those that have.......

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marno said..


Its not that I'm not happy with the 2012 REO, I was just asking is there a wave kite that flies more forward in the window, hence making it easier to go right. If the answer is no, then its no, but since i haven't flown any of the newer wave kites keen to get some feedback from those that have.......

Just remember that upwind performance is the direct opposite to down the line drifting performance. You cant have awesome upwind with awesome downwind drift......
No matter what the kite salesmen tell you. Any big gains you get in upwind will be equally removed from your down the line performance.

I still maintain when riding cross on and cross shore you don't need good upwind performance to ride waves upwind. Its only when you get to cross off that riding the wave upwind becomes difficult.

I've had many days when there has not been enough wind do stay upwind but as long as I could get onto a wave I could use the waves power to ride the wave to get me upwind.

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gcdave said...

wavenator said...
Kites that depower more or fly upwind better are better at this, but the main thing is being on the smallest kite you can for the conditions. Smaller kite means more depower. Maybe you need more sizes? The other thing is riding a bigger board allows you to ride a smaller kite. So your board size and range of kites might be the problem.

I have found the best kites for wave riding sit forward in the window when powered and back when depowered. Not many kites do this well or at all. To surf on a kite drift is king. If you haven't/cant ride a wave with 5+ seconds of slack line keep looking for something better. I say this because the other direction - downwind gives the closest feeling to surfing on a wave you can get with a kite.

What kite sits back in the window when depowered?

+1 to small kite but add some line length for the low end

BRM Cloud will sit back in the window - when depowered.

TimAus has a few comments on Reo vs Element in this thread: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Review/Switch-Kites-3/

You never usually hear this, but I sometimes get annoyed that my Element 3s goes upwind too much

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Hunter S said..
For a wave Kite there's nothing wrong with the upwind performance of the 2012 REO.

Have you checked your line lengths are equal?

I've only flown the V1 Element. Nice Kite and not much different from the 2012 REO, though I thought the REO was a slightly better wave Kite with better upwind performance. As both kites have evolved since then I'm guessing you wouldn't find much difference in upwind performance between them now.

No kite's perfect but If you're not happy with the REO in waves you might find it hard to find something better

The older Reos do not have as much grunt as the new ones. My 8m 2013 Reo I need to have smack bang on 25 ish knots to have fun and not move my kite around. My 2014 9m Reo I can get out on 16 knots and have fun up until around 30. The older Reos are great kites but they need the right wind to get going. The new ones have more of a wind range and are better in less wind for there kite size.

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marno said..
The kite is 8m and my board is 5,11 with enough buoyancy, and I'm 77 kg so that's all about right for most days when the wind blows in summer.....

Marno, I've just found this thread and am trying to work out why you are riding an 8m. I'm 90kg and ride a 6m BWS with a 5"10 surfboard when the Perth seabreeze is in, same downwinder as you. It took me a while to realize how much better it was to ride "underpowered". For me, it opened up better angles going right, and much more fun going left. i know I'm riding a kite too big when I can't go right - I'm a goofy, and I find I get pulled off the face if I am too powered. Like Plummet said, when it cross on it's the wave power helps you ride upwind.

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Brohan said...

Hunter S said..
For a wave Kite there's nothing wrong with the upwind performance of the 2012 REO.

Have you checked your line lengths are equal?

I've only flown the V1 Element. Nice Kite and not much different from the 2012 REO, though I thought the REO was a slightly better wave Kite with better upwind performance. As both kites have evolved since then I'm guessing you wouldn't find much difference in upwind performance between them now.

No kite's perfect but If you're not happy with the REO in waves you might find it hard to find something better

The older Reos do not have as much grunt as the new ones. My 8m 2013 Reo I need to have smack bang on 25 ish knots to have fun and not move my kite around. My 2014 9m Reo I can get out on 16 knots and have fun up until around 30. The older Reos are great kites but they need the right wind to get going. The new ones have more of a wind range and are better in less wind for there kite size.

I agree my 8m 2012 reo needs 20 plus knots to work, but in your comparison there you are talking about an 8m and a 9m. Wouldn't you expect the 9m to get going earlier???

Hold your kite higher as you go along the wave and use your board to milk the wave. Sheet out as you pick up speed. Throw your arms up and forward as you milk up the wave..then use the speed coming down the face slightly again...staying mid/high on the wave Once you speed up you come under your kite a bit more and it doesn't pull you as much. This feels great to being closer to surfing. You may not get a vert reo in but a punt or a quick barrel is on the cards.
KSS in Scarbs is holding a wave kite tutorial night soon.

Some perspective. Who says as a rule wave kites don't go upwind well. My 9 m Airush Wave rips upwind (way better than my Airush Lithiums & equal to my Varial X) and much better than my friends 2014 & 15 North Neos. So yes upwind it's as good as it gets. The Airush just doesn't have lots of grunt. It's average. While I can make the 9 meter go in 15-17, I have to work it. It really comes into it's own in 18 plus up to high twenties. I weigh 70 kg.

Great kite though. Favorite for all around waves, freeride as well (twintip too) - just not the best for jumping but it works when there's enough wind. Be interested in demoing the Naish Pivot. Sounds like potential compromise between power, range, and wave characteristics.

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windtzu said..
Some perspective. Who says as a rule wave kites don't go upwind well. My 9 m Airush Wave rips upwind (way better than my Airush Lithiums & equal to my Varial X) and much better than my friends 2014 & 15 North Neos. So yes upwind it's as good as it gets.

If you think your wave kite rips upwind "as good as it gets"..... you haven't flown kites that actually rip upwind!

I'm not saying your airush kite isn't a good kite. Half the wave kiters round here use them and do very well with them...... but ripping upwind is not the forte' of wave kites or any low aspect kite.

Find somebody with an ozone edge or go even sillier and test fly a chrono. Then your'l find out about going upwind "as good as it gets"

Not all boards are created equal

Upwind performance both on wave and mowing the lawn is more about the board

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Jedibrad said..
Not all boards are created equal

Upwind performance both on wave and mowing the lawn is more about the board

Have to agree with the Jedi above. A lot of this upwind on wave kites is definitely largely affected by the board being ridden and the riders skill with both kite and board. Heavy handed kiters who are always pulling in on the bar for more power struggle, same with surfboard riders who are riding off the backfoot on boards with a lot of tail rocker.

Put an Edge/chrono on a twin tip and suddenly their upwind performance is not that stunning, but put those kites with a hydrofoil and then you'll see them fly upwind, which proves that the board is a huge factor. Look at the top kite racers, most are all on similar gear but there are a dozen or so that just have an undeniable ability to go upwind and downwind better than the rest of the field, they just have better skills.

Don't over think it too much, experiment with some different boards, and get a newer kite, you will get the results you are looking for, with practice and patience.

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windtzu said...
Some perspective. Who says as a rule wave kites don't go upwind well. My 9 m Airush Wave rips upwind (way better than my Airush Lithiums & equal to my Varial X) and much better than my friends 2014 & 15 North Neos. So yes upwind it's as good as it gets. The Airush just doesn't have lots of grunt. It's average. While I can make the 9 meter go in 15-17, I have to work it. It really comes into it's own in 18 plus up to high twenties. I weigh 70 kg.

Great kite though. Favorite for all around waves, freeride as well (twintip too) - just not the best for jumping but it works when there's enough wind. Be interested in demoing the Naish Pivot. Sounds like potential compromise between power, range, and wave characteristics.

At your weight I'm assuming you're on a twin tip with the 9m?? Is that right???

I am in Perth and I have got so use to riding back hand left I prefer to ride left even when I paddle surf.
I think it feels much closer to surfing as there is not as much pull from the kite.

Go smaller on the kite and wider/more buoyant on the board or flatter rocker to get more wind range.
I find any kite bigger than an 8m is slow for my style if you call it a style.

I was never creative on a wave when primarily paddle surfed and I am still not on a kite but maybe have a few extra manoeuvres to my repertoire now.

play with your board options, I think you will open up your options a lot more.

Cheers
Rich