Had some good runs sitting on the foil today. Even let out a yahoo the fist time.

foiling in flat water is so good. The progression is outrageous.

How's this for progressing. Wind was super light today so I gave the foil to a 15yo I kite with. First go on the foil he was up and away, second attempt and did a jibe.
How ridiculous is that. First time on a foil haha

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kemp90 said..
How's this for progressing. Wind was super light today so I gave the foil to a 15yo I kite with. First go on the foil he was up and away, second attempt and did a jibe.
How ridiculous is that. First time on a foil haha

The audacity of youth.

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kemp90 said..
How's this for progressing. Wind was super light today so I gave the foil to a 15yo I kite with. First go on the foil he was up and away, second attempt and did a jibe.
How ridiculous is that. First time on a foil haha

Did you punch him to show him whose boss?

Lol. Na he's a kid that iv been coaching and now he's better then me. He's actually off to the world kiteboarding academy this year. Such a shredder

Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

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Alysum said..
Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

Go back to the shorter masts until you can foil long distances comfortably. It sounds like you've moved to the longer mast prematurely if you are struggling with keeping the 30" in the water. After getting proficient on the 24", I found the longer masts easier as there was more room for error. My progression went through the roof on the 24" mast so maybe don't rush that stage. I'm strapless as well.

I'm no expert but maybe more you mast further back. It will require less front pressure.

dorothyinste - Ive enjoyed reading you journey - Im way behind you but have soaked up all of the forum morsels that have come from your questions !!
Today was my third session on the foil ( guess it could be my third hour?) and Im super stoked to have done some long surface runs on the board - yep Ive learnt not to run before crawling . Its still a wild ride as I was on an 11m kite and wind was 12 to 18 knots so a bit up and down but Im grinning !!! A few times the board got a bit of speed and wants to rise but yes front foot pressure is the answer. I did lose some downwind ground sorting out the water starts - damn foil doesnt 'easily drift downwind in the water' start position! so often I found my self downwind of the board in a gust then had to reset all over Grrrr - part of the fun!! But once up on the board and riding on the surface it does go upwind without even realising it!!
I cant wait until the next opportunity,,,,,, thanks to the crew that have have posted to this thread!!

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DukeSilver said..

Alysum said..
Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

Go back to the shorter masts until you can foil long distances comfortably. It sounds like you've moved to the longer mast prematurely if you are struggling with keeping the 30" in the water. After getting proficient on the 24", I found the longer masts easier as there was more room for error. My progression went through the roof on the 24" mast so maybe don't rush that stage. I'm strapless as well.

I actually did about 4 sessions on the 24 and was keen to go to the 30 because like you say there's more room for error plus my spot is choppy etc... I think I'll just keep trying...

The mast track is all the way back btw. Does moving it forward mean you need even more front foot pressure?

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Alysum said..

DukeSilver said..

Alysum said..
Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

Go back to the shorter masts until you can foil long distances comfortably. It sounds like you've moved to the longer mast prematurely if you are struggling with keeping the 30" in the water. After getting proficient on the 24", I found the longer masts easier as there was more room for error. My progression went through the roof on the 24" mast so maybe don't rush that stage. I'm strapless as well.

I actually did about 4 sessions on the 24 and was keen to go to the 30 because like you say there's more room for error plus my spot is choppy etc... I think I'll just keep trying...

The mast track is all the way back btw. Does moving it forward mean you need even more front foot pressure?

If your feet remain in their current position, yes.

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bigtone667 said..

Alysum said..

DukeSilver said..

Alysum said..
Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

Go back to the shorter masts until you can foil long distances comfortably. It sounds like you've moved to the longer mast prematurely if you are struggling with keeping the 30" in the water. After getting proficient on the 24", I found the longer masts easier as there was more room for error. My progression went through the roof on the 24" mast so maybe don't rush that stage. I'm strapless as well.

I actually did about 4 sessions on the 24 and was keen to go to the 30 because like you say there's more room for error plus my spot is choppy etc... I think I'll just keep trying...

The mast track is all the way back btw. Does moving it forward mean you need even more front foot pressure?

If your feet remain in their current position, yes.

Thanks.

I think I just need to be more aware of how high the mast is so I know when I need to put pressure forward or back. Do you have any tips to know when you are maxed out and need to more front foot pressure ? I'm so focused on many things at the same time...

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Alysum said..

bigtone667 said..

Alysum said..

DukeSilver said..

Alysum said..
Learning on the Slingshot with the different mast sizes. I'm up to the 3'rd size, the Solo (out of 4).
4 sessions so far on the solo mast and my progression isn't progressing enough.... I do the odd long run but even in flat waters it doesn't last long.

I still bomb out all the time, despite putting so much pressure on the front foot and even leaning over it, at some stage it bombs out then pitch pole... I come from strapless kiting so not putting much on the back foot.

What tips can one give ? Sandout the rough wings finer ?

I'm riding without straps which makes water starts a LOT harder. I often make the mistake of being too aggressive with diving the kite and the foils starts going downwind and I have no idea how to bring it back upwind.... It's a hip thing I get it but it seems too late by that stage

Go back to the shorter masts until you can foil long distances comfortably. It sounds like you've moved to the longer mast prematurely if you are struggling with keeping the 30" in the water. After getting proficient on the 24", I found the longer masts easier as there was more room for error. My progression went through the roof on the 24" mast so maybe don't rush that stage. I'm strapless as well.

I actually did about 4 sessions on the 24 and was keen to go to the 30 because like you say there's more room for error plus my spot is choppy etc... I think I'll just keep trying...

The mast track is all the way back btw. Does moving it forward mean you need even more front foot pressure?

If your feet remain in their current position, yes.

Thanks.

I think I just need to be more aware of how high the mast is so I know when I need to put pressure forward or back. Do you have any tips to know when you are maxed out and need to more front foot pressure ? I'm so focused on many things at the same time...

As long as you are not porpoising, then your centre of gravity is fine.

At the moment I am practising riding with a stance where both of my feet are side by side and I am facing forwards. Feels really weird trying to find the balance point and when turning. I spend all my time shifting my body weight slightly forward or back to maintain level.

Hey guys,

i was was wondering if anyone had tried learning to foil at Melbourne cable park?

I thought this would be a great way to learn to foil, but a quick message to the park they don't recommend it as they're not setup for it?

Asylum, in regards to knowing how high you are. You may notice some feedback from the foil in roll stability.
As you get more mast out of water, the stabilising effect of the mast to rolling to either side lessens.
Maybe practice getting to know how this effect changes as you gain altitude.

Ral Inn I think you have raised my problem I need to keep my mast in deeper.
Any advice on how to keep it in at half mast?

Random101 - if there is any traffic in the cable park then learning on a foil would be a PITA for the newby and everyone else ! Just getting up on the board and to surface ride is a big challenge and usually results in many crashes - over and over again !! And Im sure my experience isnt that different to every other kiteboarder that has ridden a surfboard for years and simply thinks a foil is a simple transition !! Imagine a newby TT in a cable park and then multiply that by about 100 !
There are some kite schools starting to use tinnys to 'teach foiling' but from what Rail Inn and others have said its just so different its very misleading !!
One of the standout comments from the foil masters that has become my zen (yep Im finally beginng to understand the importance of this) is 'Grasshopper - unlearn everything you have learnt " - Kite control is the same but just forget the TT and surfboard skills!
'Today I surface ride - tomorrow I will foil ' - my morning mantra !! LOL

I took out my little phatty the other day 4'6 - boy did I struggle. Managed to even lose two fins. Thinking I'm doomed for the foil... But wanted to get board control down - hence the cable seemed like a better option. Deep, flat water to get a feel for mast height ect. The WA park guys run intro to foiling at their park. Hence thought it might be a good option.

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random101 said..
I took out my little phatty the other day 4'6 - boy did I struggle. Managed to even lose two fins. Thinking I'm doomed for the foil... But wanted to get board control down - hence the cable seemed like a better option. Deep, flat water to get a feel for mast height ect. The WA park guys run intro to foiling at their park. Hence thought it might be a good option.

Deep flat foiling water with minimal walk out into the deep.
sounds like Shallow inlet

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warwickl said..
Ral Inn I think you have raised my problem I need to keep my mast in deeper.
Any advice on how to keep it in at half mast?

Sounds a bit suggestive
i had trouble on port tack controlling height so focusing way ahead helped that and now that is my new good side.
Somehow in the process I seemed to get that feel of height as well

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RAL INN said..

random101 said..
I took out my little phatty the other day 4'6 - boy did I struggle. Managed to even lose two fins. Thinking I'm doomed for the foil... But wanted to get board control down - hence the cable seemed like a better option. Deep, flat water to get a feel for mast height ect. The WA park guys run intro to foiling at their park. Hence thought it might be a good option.

Deep flat foiling water with minimal walk out into the deep.
sounds like Shallow inlet

Been learning in the bay this summer and know the bay chop is one factor working against me but have the place to myself when the conditions are right for the foil. One less factor to worry about. How busy does Shallow Inlet get with other kites and Sailboards? And what about the fast running tide currents?

I was struggling with this in beginning too. Everyone said to lift my eyes, look a bit forward it's easier to get a sense of the altitude not looking down. Plus it was said that I needed more hours. 10 hours in i was pounding myself with breaches. 20 hours in it was less a problem. 30 hours it was automatic and rarely breaching except in really choppy waves and strong wind or trying to gybe.
Stick to the longer mast, do more up and down to surface at speed. Learn to land before you learn to fly. Up, Down, repeat.

Re: Shallow Inlet, best part of foiling is you can go where others can't.
you can go smoothly in some chop and stay upwind when others get knocked downwind

I know that foiling seems impossibly difficult when you're learning. There were times after learning when I was almost in tears. You think you've got it then, bam!!!!!!! You take successive hits. They all hurt.

Now, it's the easiest thing in the world and we wonder what the fuss is about.

Rule 1. Just do it.
Rule 2. More riding. Less thinking.
Rule 3. Just do it some more.

My two cents? All the learning aids in the world might save you some beatings and pain in the first couple of hours. They're all a waste of time in the long run. The learning doesn't really begin until you're up and foiling and riding around every day. Embrace it. Get on with it.

I think you're on the money Gorgo.
certainly about all the fuss and looking for the easy way round the problem that presents you (the beginner) right now.
the only real trick is to build muscle memory, and while we may try to come up with suggestions to help there is no getting round the muscle memory thing.
So whatever rig you have just get on it and do it and it will happen.

Totally agree with the above.

We overthink the whole thing and buying stopgaps to cover our perceived weaknesses (which we don't understand because we haven't yet done it ) , don't really cut out the problems.

My approach is .... if someone else can do it , then I can too, but I know I will have to put in the time

I chose intermediate gear knowing I would end up on it , my choice.... I knew it would make it harder.
I tailored to my own learning curve and there are only a few of things I would now advise a learner to do.
Whatever gear you choose , Be powered on the kite , choose a suitable cross shore location, keep the board on the water at the beginning by adopting a forward weighted stance and from those things you start the learning curve.
I didn't bother with the "add ons " ... short masts , towed learning, etc.

It's perseverence and time on the water , bit by bit becoming familiar with the multitude of different sensations and adjustments you must make and choose as you go down the path.

Eventually , all of that comes together. Some quicker than others . I still have lots to learn but have busted through now and it's been worth it.

I don't jump .... I like to ride waves and sea swell and cruise about , so my focus has been on doing clean gybes with air transition , heel to toe side , smooth riding our chop ... I can do all those pretty well now from being a complete clutz a few months ago. ??
Never thought I could master an air gybe , but now I seem to be doing it !
Im no spring chicken ....56 yo.

Lots of time on the water though. No getting pissed off , just bloody perseverence knowing I would win it over.

I have absolutely loved the learning curve of foiling and now the results , but on some days have felt like I was back breaking horses when I was 20 years old and that is a joy

cheers.

Yep plain old perseverance, is the only real way to learn back to back days on the water. Don't think about all the technical stuff feel the foil working try and try again, look down when going into toe side turn, don't look up at the kite.
Relax and if you have a **** day don't worry because tomorrow will be another opportunity.

"Foiling is essentially flying a tiny aeroplane with your feet" Josh van Brederode

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dorothyinste said..
"Foiling is essentially flying a tiny aeroplane with your feet" Josh van Brederode

People are asking me why I'm so obsessed. I tell them," its like flying, but with your feet, your body, the kite - all in combination ". It's a complete mind/body experience.

Just do it is good advice ... there really is no shortcut to learning the muscle memory here. It is so weird and different, the only want to learn is by feel, reading about isn't going to do much.

However, I do think back to that first few sessions, endless wipeouts over and over, with out of control lift shooting me in every direction. The scary part was going too slow (trying to be safer) and falling sideways, forcing the wings up, so you land on the wings ... I call it "the switchblade", ouch. Turns out a little speed is your friend, much like trying to ride a bike too slow.

Some learning aids may help. I have friends who used the 18/24/36" mast progression and were up and foiling in the first 30 seconds of trying. They experienced zero of what I did in that first week. Which is a lot less frustrating, but also lessens chance of injury. I'd recommend that to a beginner, at least for initial orientation stage.

The other thing is large wings. I was on an original carafino, about as low aspect as foils got. I can't imagine learning on one of these twitchy set ups even for intermediates. I have a Takuma sup foil, we were learning it behind the boat, and my friend who has never been on a foil was able to make it work on his first try. On a normal kite foil, he for sure would not have got it as quick. So that's another beginner option -- I know some of the kitefoil instructors out there are using these for that reason.

But back to JUST DO IT: even with some learning aids, there's no substitute for building that muscle memory other than practice.