On the bad tack, try focusing your vision much further ahead.
sometimes when we are focusing hard on riding on our bad side we tend to look down at the board and how high we are when controlling pitch.
looking out ahead seems to help a lot.

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RAL INN said..
On the bad tack, try focusing your vision much further ahead.
sometimes when we are focusing hard on riding on our bad side we tend to look down at the board and how high we are when controlling pitch.
looking out ahead seems to help a lot.

Cheers I'll give it a shot.

Agree, initally I can not help looking down and thinking how high I am off the water even on 24in mast.
Its just mind blowing but as you say looking ahead takes on a different sense and one does stay up on the foil much longer just experiencing the foiling quite moment.

went straight from short mast to full length 35.4 hover glide, took a few goes, now used to riding 30+ inches above ocean swells waiting for cavitation, then shoulders forward lower nose then load back foot for next swell, so much fun gliding above the moving water on own riding agenda, need to learn travelling downwind with swell next, ankles getting workout

the shortest tt i have ridden is 90cm, the foil is 70cm, it is a matter of feeling the stability of a short board, just that its submerged, extra long legs, its a feel, no use looking... hardest thing today was trying toeside in swell, any tips for toeside? much harder than healside cos the kite was cramped to the side and difficult to get weight forward... also riding with kite super high whilst learning, must feel awesome to fly kite low while foiling

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warwickl said..
Agree, initally I can not help looking down and thinking how high I am off the water even on 24in mast.
Its just mind blowing but as you say looking ahead takes on a different sense and one does stay up on the foil much longer just experiencing the foiling quite moment.

Just wait till you are 36 inches above the water heading down a four wave!!! Feels like jumping off a roof.
The hardest thing is to dive your foil down the wave so you do not breach.

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pmk said..
the shortest tt i have ridden is 90cm, the foil is 70cm, it is a matter of feeling the stability of a short board, just that its submerged, extra long legs, its a feel, no use looking... hardest thing today was trying toeside in swell, any tips for toeside? much harder than healside cos the kite was cramped to the side and difficult to get weight forward... also riding with kite super high whilst learning, must feel awesome to fly kite low while foiling

Try to keep your kite low and in front of you. If it gets to high it has a tendency to turn your hips around, making toeside very difficult.

If it does get too high, turn down the wave and give yourself time to get the kite under control again.

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pmk said..
... hardest thing today was trying toeside in swell, any tips for toeside? ...

I found for comfortable toeside I could lean my head and shoulders forward, both legs bent and have my outside arm hanging down so that my hand was in front of my knee. The hand and knee thing is irrelevant but it indicated how far forward my upper body is. The idea is to get the centre of gravity forward. I like to feel really relaxed and comfortable.

Other people do a big bend forward at the waist. This works ok but it looks ugly. I still do this if overpowered but I try to have a more comfortable style.

Finally got some good conditions in Darwin for progression of the 2 foilers now here. I think we will see a few more in time

Learned not to bother learning in onshore conditions. Spent most of my time trying to get deep enough water.
Much better in crosshore.

Now we are cruising upwind , trying to nail gybes , downwind , how to cope with swell etc . Great fun and many , many crashes and grazes.

Loving the jshapes gear , although I did wonder if i was ever going to progress to actually foiling .

Cheers.

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bigtone667 said..

warwickl said..
Agree, initally I can not help looking down and thinking how high I am off the water even on 24in mast.
Its just mind blowing but as you say looking ahead takes on a different sense and one does stay up on the foil much longer just experiencing the foiling quite moment.

Just wait till you are 36 inches above the water heading down a four wave!!! Feels like jumping off a roof.
The hardest thing is to dive your foil down the wave so you do not breach.

Fortunately my longest mast is 35.5in

Toeside riding: for one thing, if you don't have a sliding hook yet, get one. Better for wave riding and toeside in general, but for the foil it is super helpful, as with the more extreme upwind angle you are pretty much pointing upwind with your back to the kite. I asked advice at one point about leaning into it to get harder upwind, and someone said something interesting: you don't need to lean your body into, just twist your body to get the angle you need on the foil. The difference is that it is a wing floating in the water, not on the water surface. And it worked.

re: dropping into wave. I've not ridden any serious swells, but even in small waves I can agree it's a trip to drop in, as you have to point the foil "downhill" ... that is a committed feeling!

thanks for all the above tips shared so far guys, good to realise leaning/edging is not as necessary with foil, may also help alleviate fear of ankle twists in straps, particularly toeside, even loose they still seem to catch you out, more hazards than strapless surf, f**k up and it can hurt

about 8 hours on foil now, tried today in 15kts and bigger ocean swell, many attempts to get out back both dragging and riding, no prize kept getting smashed in waves and current, decided to quit while ahead with medium line cut to finger... ahhh reminds me of the early days of rhe sport

My beginner experience update:
What I have learnt from this site, local experienced guy (thanks Tony) and in practice
1. A major plus is being reasonable at strapless kite surfing, I am ok so that helped.
2. Eliminate anything that could be a hinderence/distraction eg waist harness - go to a seat harness for learning so no riding up plus in light wind helps get up on board easier. Use the lightest kites you can as in light wind ie sub 10 kn strutted kites can fall easily and hard to launch so time wasting
3. Start in flat water as even in flat water on wind days ie plus 15k waves can get to .5 m +
4. Best to be a little over powered than under powered in the early days
5. When getting up on board front strap only has worked for me. Plus only swing kite to 10 or 2 o'clock then back to just past 12. Going past this caused me problems and entrainment for spectators.
6. Keep back foot forward and weight on front foot this stops foil rising however one can still feel the foil making the board light on the water
7 Now under way put a bit of weight on back foot or move foot back a little - and before you know it your up.?? then ?? then start again.

I started on 15 in mast for about 4 sessions then 24in for 4 sessions and now fitted the 30in.
Last session was by far my best with very long runs up on the 24 in foil. My session finished in dying wind so desperate to get back to shore I did a very fast (for me) straight down wind run jumping off in a foot of water at the shore.
What I now need to do is relax more and work on transitions.
I had almost forgotten how to launch kites in light wind so thanks to learning foiling this has improved significantly.
Plus I now understand what guys mean when they say it's like flying??

that flying feeling doesn't get old either ;)

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dafish said..
that flying feeling doesn't get old either ;)

Has for me. Its now just another of the kiting sensations. Not better or worse just different. Well it is better and worse at the same time!....

I'm actually surprised how fast I've gotten to the "its fun but I don't NEEED to do it stage" I haven't foiled in a month and don't really care. I'll foil again when I get my pocket board up and running. But i'm not sweeting it.

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Plummet said..

dafish said..
that flying feeling doesn't get old either ;)

Has for me. Its now just another of the kiting sensations. Not better or worse just different. Well it is better and worse at the same time!....

I'm actually surprised how fast I've gotten to the "its fun but I don't NEEED to do it stage" I haven't foiled in a month and don't really care. I'll foil again when I get my pocket board up and running. But i'm not sweeting it.

Perfect day....foil, downwinder, foil. Still love the flying sensation after a few years.

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bigtone667 said..

Plummet said..

dafish said..
that flying feeling doesn't get old either ;)

Has for me. Its now just another of the kiting sensations. Not better or worse just different. Well it is better and worse at the same time!....

I'm actually surprised how fast I've gotten to the "its fun but I don't NEEED to do it stage" I haven't foiled in a month and don't really care. I'll foil again when I get my pocket board up and running. But i'm not sweeting it.

Perfect day....foil, downwinder, foil. Still love the flying sensation after a few years.

Don't get me wrong its a cool sensation. But I equally enjoy surface riding. Particularly when there's good conditions.
Also the landkiting adds more sensations to kiting which is also cool. Longboard skate kiting is also very very smooth. smoother than the hydrofoil. Kitebuggying sanddunes is probably better again! so much fun!!!!

Moving into warmer weather up here at 56N. But still in 5-4 with hood, gloves and booties. Had 13th session yesterday, a solid 90 min foiling and doing runs 500+ m each way without falling, did a few surface gibes really slow.
I finally got your point of not fighting foil, and when foil wanted to follow something happening in water, I just relaxed, let it go and followed. the board was disappearing in my mind, and I was feeling the wing, it felt like that mind to object control mapping was happening. Awesome feeling.
I was doing slight S turns, downwind a bit - lower kite, balance and ride some swells, then carve upwind and raise kite, lean against to bear upwind, repeat. Controlled speed. Coming back I had to go really on a broad reach and kite disappeared in mind too, only me and foil and some swell.
Doing this I accidentally did a turn 90 degrees, and rolled foil over cg, but cut back upwind bringing cg back over, without falling.
I was pretty powered on a 12 Mono, 2 other foilers on 9m RPMs. 7-9ms wind.

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TomW059 said..
Moving into warmer weather up here at 56N. But still in 5-4 with hood, gloves and booties. Had 13th session yesterday, a solid 90 min foiling and doing runs 500+ m each way without falling, did a few surface gibes really slow.
I finally got your point of not fighting foil, and when foil wanted to follow something happening in water, I just relaxed, let it go and followed. the board was disappearing in my mind, and I was feeling the wing, it felt like that mind to object control mapping was happening. Awesome feeling.
I was doing slight S turns, downwind a bit - lower kite, balance and ride some swells, then carve upwind and raise kite, lean against to bear upwind, repeat. Controlled speed. Coming back I had to go really on a broad reach and kite disappeared in mind too, only me and foil and some swell.
Doing this I accidentally did a turn 90 degrees, and rolled foil over cg, but cut back upwind bringing cg back over, without falling.
I was pretty powered on a 12 Mono, 2 other foilers on 9m RPMs. 7-9ms wind.

This was the point for me where foiling went from a novelty ("look at me, I'm riding on a unicycle!") to something that is actually really different and fun and worthy of some time. That moment where you're riding nearly straight downwind, almost no pull at all from kite, and you notice something weird ... silence. And flow. The closest I've experienced to it is snowboarding in powder, nearly weightless. And then the re-engaging of the kite and the edge to carve hard back upwind, that's a cool feeling too.

re: using the 12m while the other foilers on 9m. A bigger kite allows drifting your kite on your downwind carves, as the kite can just sit at 12 and float along with you. Whereas a smaller kite would require active flying and looping to keep the lines from slackening or the kite hindenburging. The cost of the big kite is feeling over powered while going against the wind. It seems to be a bragging point in foiling about how small a kite you can use. I've seen one POV video what this looks like, a 4m kite in 15kts ... buzzing around like an angry bee, endless looping to stay on a plane or do a turn. Dunno, I don't really see the attraction.

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juandesooka said..

TomW059 said..
Moving into warmer weather up here at 56N. But still in 5-4 with hood, gloves and booties. Had 13th session yesterday, a solid 90 min foiling and doing runs 500+ m each way without falling, did a few surface gibes really slow.
I finally got your point of not fighting foil, and when foil wanted to follow something happening in water, I just relaxed, let it go and followed. the board was disappearing in my mind, and I was feeling the wing, it felt like that mind to object control mapping was happening. Awesome feeling.
I was doing slight S turns, downwind a bit - lower kite, balance and ride some swells, then carve upwind and raise kite, lean against to bear upwind, repeat. Controlled speed. Coming back I had to go really on a broad reach and kite disappeared in mind too, only me and foil and some swell.
Doing this I accidentally did a turn 90 degrees, and rolled foil over cg, but cut back upwind bringing cg back over, without falling.
I was pretty powered on a 12 Mono, 2 other foilers on 9m RPMs. 7-9ms wind.

This was the point for me where foiling went from a novelty ("look at me, I'm riding on a unicycle!") to something that is actually really different and fun and worthy of some time. That moment where you're riding nearly straight downwind, almost no pull at all from kite, and you notice something weird ... silence. And flow. The closest I've experienced to it is snowboarding in powder, nearly weightless. And then the re-engaging of the kite and the edge to carve hard back upwind, that's a cool feeling too.

Just wait till your going downwind on a wave swinging your kite madly backwards and forwards to keep it in the air.
Sensational moments....... it's when you discover if your kite truly drifts.

The first time I really got going I was totally reminded of snowboarding in powder.

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juandesooka said..

re: using the 12m while the other foilers on 9m. A bigger kite allows drifting your kite on your downwind carves, as the kite can just sit at 12 and float along with you. Whereas a smaller kite would require active flying and looping to keep the lines from slackening or the kite hindenburging. The cost of the big kite is feeling over powered while going against the wind. It seems to be a bragging point in foiling about how small a kite you can use. I've seen one POV video what this looks like, a 4m kite in 15kts ... buzzing around like an angry bee, endless looping to stay on a plane or do a turn. Dunno, I don't really see the attraction.

The other thing the big kites let you do is this... I still have trouble believing that 5-6 knots is now Kitesurfing weather.




It's truly silent at this wind speed. No line whistle, no wind in your ears. The only sound is the slight zipping noise the water trailing behind the mast makes.

I can still reach around 14-15 knots board speed in this wind. Not super fast, but still an absolutely incredible sensation when everything else is saying it shouldn't be possible. The casual SUP guys always look on in disbelief when you cruise past them.

The bottom picture is only a crappy phone photo my missus took - I was a long way out because it was shallow - I just included to prove there is a kite out there.

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Jonesey32 said..

juandesooka said..

re: using the 12m while the other foilers on 9m. A bigger kite allows drifting your kite on your downwind carves, as the kite can just sit at 12 and float along with you. Whereas a smaller kite would require active flying and looping to keep the lines from slackening or the kite hindenburging. The cost of the big kite is feeling over powered while going against the wind. It seems to be a bragging point in foiling about how small a kite you can use. I've seen one POV video what this looks like, a 4m kite in 15kts ... buzzing around like an angry bee, endless looping to stay on a plane or do a turn. Dunno, I don't really see the attraction.

The other thing the big kites let you do is this... I still have trouble believing that 5-6 knots is now Kitesurfing weather.




It's truly silent at this wind speed. No line whistle, no wind in your ears. The only sound is the slight zipping noise the water trailing behind the mast makes.

I can still reach around 14-15 knots board speed in this wind. Not super fast, but still an absolutely incredible sensation when everything else is saying it shouldn't be possible. The casual SUP guys always look on in disbelief when you cruise past them.

The bottom picture is only a crappy phone photo my missus took - I was a long way out because it was shallow - I just included to prove there is a kite out there.

What kite do you use down at that wind speed Jonesay? I've had good rides with a 15.5m Solo (Liquid force) at around 5 knots, but I was only borrowing it so I may get a foil kite or some other LEI in the future...

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Samuellae said..

What kite do you use down at that wind speed Jonesay? I've had good rides with a 15.5m Solo (Liquid force) at around 5 knots, but I was only borrowing it so I may get a foil kite or some other LEI in the future...

That is an old Spleene X19. Not really suited to the hydrofoils because it is a super slow-turning, grunty kite, and it becomes a handful on the hydrofoil around 7-8 knots (still can't believe I'm saying a kite is a handful at 7 knots...). It is good in that it is super light and it flies fine in that sort of wind. It launches well down to around 4 knots and is very balanced, so it floats back nicely if you get a lull. If the wind is consistently anywhere near 7 knots I would take my 11m Sonic. The Sonic is far and away a better kite (the best kite by far I have ever flown - tube or foil), but the bottom end for me on the 11m is around 6 knots. I would love to upgrade the X19 to one of the current generation foil kites, but I just can't justify that when it still works on the handful of days I just need to be out in the 4-8 knot range.

I have read of people having success on the new light wind tube kites down to the 5 knot range, but I've never actually witnessed it myself. What I have seen, many times, is the wind dropping off and all the inflatables dropping out of the sky where the foils will stay in the air so you can at least get them back to the beach (which is good because if they end up in the water it is a really bad day).

The Clouds etc. look interesting - I would love to have a light, fast turning, 15m inflatable if they really do work down this low. I just haven't had the opportunity to see that yet.

I flew my ocean rodeo flite 17m gen5 last weekend once the wind meter started reading 6kt...varying 5 to 8. At 5 it just barely flies, you'd need some skills to keep it in the air to get out and waterstart. At 8 it is plenty powered but have to work in in turns.. In between at 6-7.

Cloud flies in light wind but was not great upwind on surfboard...though with foil that wouldn't be an issue.

If foiling is the epitome of kiting, then downwind foiling must surely be the greatest sensation of all. It is difficult to fully describe the experience of pure unadulterated speed over water with such minimal stresses. Foiling is the most efficient way for an object to be propelled over water, save for flying itself. The sheer delight at travelling downwind parallel to the beach, seeing the beach walkers gaze in awe at a kiter just zipping along. Keeping the kite in the sweet spot of the wind becomes a little tricky when one is travelling at near similar speed of the wind. A kite that drifts well is preferable. Also the ability to manoeuvre the kite aggressively while maintaining a solid stance on the foil is challenging and supremely satisfying when one begins to get it right. There is a stark difference in foiling upwind! The ability to push hard on the foil at 45 degrees into the water, at times almost skimming ones butt on the surface of the swell, legs fully bent at the knees. Apparent wind is almost double, kite lines taught like piano strings. The constant pull of the kite giving a dull ache through the harness and into the back. And then...when one has gained enough distance upwind, to turn and glide back down wind for several kilometres is gratifyingly pure pleasure. Apparent wind is barely noticeable. Lines almost slack. Balancing on the foil with almost nil input from the kite is an experience like no other. Down wind foiling, there is no greater sensation!

Not quite a year on, the experience of foiling, in particular downwind foiling...continues to be the one sensation that is incomparable to anything else!
.
To find complete serenity, on an open expanse of clean undulating ocean. Traveling at the same speed as the wind, and apparent wind becomes almost nil. To be in that moment with the stillness of the ocean, knowing there is 10-12 knots, seeing the occasional white cap, is indeed magical.

The ability to fly and control the foil, with finesse and agility combined, at a speed only slightly above stall point, is absolutely sensational!

I'm getting into more speed and power. Say 8m it 15-20 knots crank full pace upwind then loop the kite right through the powrerzone for some crazy downwind slingshot carves. Lots of fun!

Yesterday, I managed my first heelside to toeside turn, with a downloop while strapless, before straight on to the foil again toeside. Gave me such a confidence boost all I wanted to do was do it again, and again. Then the wind started shifting an dying all over the place. But now there is today .....