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DukeSilver said..

Kamikuza said..
I got out yesterday on an Axis prototype, aluminum mast/plate/fuse and flat G10 wings...really light :D compared to what I'm used to.

My first time on a 600mm mast. Too short for me, apparently I let the foil go up and down a lot more than I thought I did.

But it was an excellent ride, really good fun and no vices. My first time foiling in a month too, so it was excellent to to get out again!

Interesting. I like the look of their Maroro foil / surfboards. So was the foil more of a free-ride medium aspect wing?

I hope Adrian won't mind me talking about it. Can't see why not, it wasn't a secret test or anything :D

Still prototype stage I gues, so don't take anything as set in stone. Medium AR, yes. Apparently, pressure was put on to convince Axis to do a "fun" foil, as opposed to a racer, and this is the result.

The board was a little pocket board, don't know the exact specs, but it was short, wide and low-ish volume i.e. not thick. If I had to guess, 150x50, maybe smaller. Carbon and Axis red, those sliding rails on the bottom...3 straps only. Gentle rocker. Plenty good for my fat ass and surface foot changes, nice and stable on the water. I rode it with only the front straps...

Good low speed handling, no aggressive nose up on the stall, so good for chasing waves but also handles speed well...I had a runaway in a gust and only bailed because the sand banks were looming large.

And it was 99.9% silent.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used HoverGlide? :D

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Kamikuza said..

DukeSilver said..

Kamikuza said..
I got out yesterday on an Axis prototype, aluminum mast/plate/fuse and flat G10 wings...really light :D compared to what I'm used to.

My first time on a 600mm mast. Too short for me, apparently I let the foil go up and down a lot more than I thought I did.

But it was an excellent ride, really good fun and no vices. My first time foiling in a month too, so it was excellent to to get out again!

Interesting. I like the look of their Maroro foil / surfboards. So was the foil more of a free-ride medium aspect wing?

I hope Adrian won't mind me talking about it. Can't see why not, it wasn't a secret test or anything :D

Still prototype stage I gues, so don't take anything as set in stone. Medium AR, yes. Apparently, pressure was put on to convince Axis to do a "fun" foil, as opposed to a racer, and this is the result.

The board was a little pocket board, don't know the exact specs, but it was short, wide and low-ish volume i.e. not thick. If I had to guess, 150x50, maybe smaller. Carbon and Axis red, those sliding rails on the bottom...3 straps only. Gentle rocker. Plenty good for my fat ass and surface foot changes, nice and stable on the water. I rode it with only the front straps...

Good low speed handling, no aggressive nose up on the stall, so good for chasing waves but also handles speed well...I had a runaway in a gust and only bailed because the sand banks were looming large.

And it was 99.9% silent.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used HoverGlide? :D

I didn't realise you had a Hover Glide - always thought it was still the LF but with an Alien Air board. The Axis foil sounds promising. Any timeframe on release yet?

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DukeSilver said..

Kamikuza said..

DukeSilver said..

Kamikuza said..
I got out yesterday on an Axis prototype, aluminum mast/plate/fuse and flat G10 wings...really light :D compared to what I'm used to.

My first time on a 600mm mast. Too short for me, apparently I let the foil go up and down a lot more than I thought I did.

But it was an excellent ride, really good fun and no vices. My first time foiling in a month too, so it was excellent to to get out again!

Interesting. I like the look of their Maroro foil / surfboards. So was the foil more of a free-ride medium aspect wing?

I hope Adrian won't mind me talking about it. Can't see why not, it wasn't a secret test or anything :D

Still prototype stage I gues, so don't take anything as set in stone. Medium AR, yes. Apparently, pressure was put on to convince Axis to do a "fun" foil, as opposed to a racer, and this is the result.

The board was a little pocket board, don't know the exact specs, but it was short, wide and low-ish volume i.e. not thick. If I had to guess, 150x50, maybe smaller. Carbon and Axis red, those sliding rails on the bottom...3 straps only. Gentle rocker. Plenty good for my fat ass and surface foot changes, nice and stable on the water. I rode it with only the front straps...

Good low speed handling, no aggressive nose up on the stall, so good for chasing waves but also handles speed well...I had a runaway in a gust and only bailed because the sand banks were looming large.

And it was 99.9% silent.

Anyone want to buy a slightly used HoverGlide? :D

I didn't realise you had a Hover Glide - always thought it was still the LF but with an Alien Air board. The Axis foil sounds promising. Any timeframe on release yet?

Have an LF Fun Foil (mostly) and a AA with HG. I like sets.

I can ask about the time frame...

Wahooo!! Finally able to perform figure eights completely on the fly. Toe side is getting easier session by session. Most kiters will attest to the fun aspect of small fast kites in any discipline. Foiling is no different. 18+ knots and 5m is pure joy, being able to stay on the foil and begin carving the transitions.
It seems foiling is also the bane of the general kiters at the local kiting area...even more so with the pole dancers. Have been told in no uncertain terms by several water sports enthusiasts.

Tips:
Speed is stability.
Learn to read the depth by the colour of the water, better to err on the side of caution and eject prior to hitting any sand bars.

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It seems foiling is also the bane of the general kiters at the local kiting area...even more so with the pole dancers. Have been told in no uncertain terms by several water sports enthusiasts.

Hater's gonna hate.

Good work on the figure 8s.

What are you calling a figure 8?

Is it when you carve heal to toe than back again? or is it something.

PS I only get positive comments here. But i'm the first to foil at my local.

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Plummet said..
What are you calling a figure 8?

Is it when you carve heal to toe than back again? or is it something.

PS I only get positive comments here. But i'm the first to foil at my local.

Yes, water start...50 meters heel side...carving to toe side...toe side for 50 meters...then carve back to heel side, basically just mowing the lawn in quite a narrow water way...from a foiling perspective. One should probably clarify, most (95%) of the kiters are quite ok with it and enjoy the spectacle, however there are always one or two individuals who feel their personal kiting space is infringed upon by someone doing something new and different. Might be ego...it is the ones always trying to go big or carve on their directionals on flat water.

The good thing about foiling is that you can easily and quickly be upwind and away from any one. So you can do your figure 8's to your hearts content 1km upwind and 300m out to sea in total seclusion if you want. There's no need to be close to the haters.

How to describe foiling? The ability to glide or the feeling of flight, sometimes only inches above the rolling swell of open ocean, is phenomenal! While heading out directly into the swell, the sea becomes an endless skateboard park. With banks and berms easily negotiated. When heading back in following the swell, it is frighteningly fun and like being on a roller coaster. The fright comes when one is at the top of ocean swell, looking down at what seems like a mountain of green liquid, and the rails are straight and fast. The speed and silence is like nothing else!

Downwind foiling is the best! Five meters and 18 knots. The open ocean becomes one's own playground. The ability of almost instant speed is exhilarating. Keeping average consistent height on the foil is challenging and fun, following the contours of the undulating swell makes for continuous enjoyment! What a phenomenal sensation! One cannot espouse the experience enough, I absolutely love it.

Todays downwinder was somewhat more challenging. Bigger swell pumped up over night. 20 knot minimum. Took a good twenty minutes of struggle to get past the larger shore break. Body dragging into white water, deep enough to foil was frustrating. Then getting up on the foil only to be smacked back down by more white water. After twenty minutes, fairly exhausted and telling one's self to stay calm. Keeping one's patience is a virtue...so they say. After taking a moment to catch one's breath and saying out loud: concentrate...you can do this...don't lose your cool. Finally managed to foil out past the breakers. OMG the rolling swell is mountainous! The fun factor and the fear factor are close bed fellows on todays downwinder. Managed to get some reasonable runs in, however concentration was at its maximum. Keeping speed in check, while assertively flying 5 meters in average 22-24 knots, and navigating large frequent 2.5 meter swell. Plenty of high speed spills knocks the stuffing out of one's self. Entirely exhausting to maintain control. Ejected a number of times out of fear. The problem, going downwind with the same direction as large swell, is speed. It is far too easy to outrun the kite and have little balance or kite control. Almost like riding a skateboard on a mono rail one meter tall. After 50 minutes I was happy to see the others land their kites at our regular destination. Phew! Made it!!

20 knots minimum? Waste of a good surfboard session IMO

Actually, 20 knots and a 5m or 7m kite with waves is pure joy on a foil. The more you do it the more fun it is. By default all waves get an extra metre of height when you're up on a foil. Being able to carve in the straps then boost off a wave on the way out is awesome.

That sounds fun. I doubt I'll ever experience that, as waves days are so rare here there is no way I'd sacrifice a minute of kite surf riding for foiling. Plus, the abuse from surfer mates would be more than I can stand.

Closest I get is bigger wind days with decent wind swell, when the wind dies a bit but the swell is still marching. 15-18kt on 8m is gold ... water surface is smooth, chop gone, and enough wind that you can ride downwind without the kite back stalling. Quiet smooth carving, so fun.

But a challenge I am finding with this small kite foiling business, have to work the kite a lot harder, and now my elbow tendonitis has flared up again. Can't have it all eh.

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dorothyinste said..
Todays downwinder was somewhat more challenging. Bigger swell pumped up over night. 20 knot minimum. Took a good twenty minutes of struggle to get past the larger shore break. Body dragging into white water, deep enough to foil was frustrating. Then getting up on the foil only to be smacked back down by more white water. After twenty minutes, fairly exhausted and telling one's self to stay calm. Keeping one's patience is a virtue...so they say. After taking a moment to catch one's breath and saying out loud: concentrate...you can do this...don't lose your cool. Finally managed to foil out past the breakers. OMG the rolling swell is mountainous! The fun factor and the fear factor are close bed fellows on todays downwinder. Managed to get some reasonable runs in, however concentration was at its maximum. Keeping speed in check, while assertively flying 5 meters in average 22-24 knots, and navigating large frequent 2.5 meter swell. Plenty of high speed spills knocks the stuffing out of one's self. Entirely exhausting to maintain control. Ejected a number of times out of fear. The problem, going downwind with the same direction as large swell, is speed. It is far too easy to outrun the kite and have little balance or kite control. Almost like riding a skateboard on a mono rail one meter tall. After 50 minutes I was happy to see the others land their kites at our regular destination. Phew! Made it!!

I think you are the most stoked foiler on the internet!

Yeah I too love small kite high wind!

From what you described it sounds like you are over powered with i few high speed death runs. Think about a smaller kite in those winds.

Also when riding the swell down wind the key is to jump on the swell slow without kite power. Let the swell power bring you back up to speed.

If you have speed and kite power then add the swell power too you will end of with the high speed death run.

try carving onto the swell slow turn down wind, kite high , then as you feel the push of the swell and just before you loose line tension loop the kite. Keep looping as you go downwind.

the downwind loop will not punish you unless you are too powered and have too much line tension. Ie you are not going downwind enough.

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juandesooka said..
That sounds fun. I doubt I'll ever experience that, as waves days are so rare here there is no way I'd sacrifice a minute of kite surf riding for foiling. Plus, the abuse from surfer mates would be more than I can stand.

Closest I get is bigger wind days with decent wind swell, when the wind dies a bit but the swell is still marching. 15-18kt on 8m is gold ... water surface is smooth, chop gone, and enough wind that you can ride downwind without the kite back stalling. Quiet smooth carving, so fun.

But a challenge I am finding with this small kite foiling business, have to work the kite a lot harder, and now my elbow tendonitis has flared up again. Can't have it all eh.

How's the bar pressure on your kite? Lighter bar pressure kites might help.

Also do a lot or looping instead of working the kite up and down. When you loop your not moving the bar. Just holding it down.

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juandesooka said..
...

But a challenge I am finding with this small kite foiling business, have to work the kite a lot harder, and now my elbow tendonitis has flared up again. Can't have it all eh.

If you're like me the tendonitis simply comes from poor technique. When I started foiling I was constantly over controlling a small kite and getting a sore elbow. It went away as I got more comfortable with the foil. Now it is almost effortless with any kite size in any conditions. It's more fun slashing about with a smaller kite because the speed matches that of the foil better.

As for waves, small wind swell is ideal. You have so much range with the foil you can quickly ride upwind to any section and play with it. No need to mix it with surfers. I have to admit that at the moment it's more kite foiling in the waves than foiling on the waves, but there's enough wave action there to enjoy it.

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Plummet said..

I think you are the most stoked foiler on the internet!

Hahaha...hey that is a really nice compliment and is appreciated. And so is the constructive advice. Will definitely look at down looping the kite more to keep line tension on the downwind legs.

Downwind free foiling is the epitome of kiting! Once again another stoke comment, one does not want this thread to become the 'same old' read. However one cannot contain the excitement and exhilaration!
Yesterdays run was an epically sensational ride. 5 meter foiling, it just does not get any better. Several of the down wind buddies have asked 'Rob, don't you miss the wave riding?' To be frank...No...not yet anyway. Maybe when the foiling bug novelty wanes a little, but at this point in time, no. Do you miss twin tip riding? This is a fair analogy.
---------------------------------
Seriously, speed and silence in near complete harmony with the undulating ocean is phenomenal. One cannot find apt words to describe a sensation comparable to nothing else. After spending a few sessions on an ordinary foil and then going back to a high performance piece of technology, is refreshingly revealing. The confidence and skill level have definitely improved.

Been on a country holiday so bit of a delay to session 7.
Got home just in time conditions 5kn lulls to 15kn gusts so not the best conditions. However I was lent a 9m Strutless Cloud kite - what a game changer hardly noticed the gusty conditions and getting closer to call myself a foiler. Went further with long runs up on 24in mast.
Now bad weather again and desperate for session 8.

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warwickl said..
Been on a country holiday so bit of a delay to session 7.
Got home just in time conditions 5kn lulls to 15kn gusts so not the best conditions. However I was lent a 9m Strutless Cloud kite - what a game changer hardly noticed the gusty conditions and getting closer to call myself a foiler. Went further with long runs up on 24in mast.
Now bad weather again and desperate for session 8.

The Clouds are great for foiling aren't they. I have a 3.5m Cloud and had it out on the Swan River on Friday and Saturday on the 24inch Hover Glide mast in about 18 to 24Kts. The ability to FULLY de-power the kite makes all the difference. The 9m you were using could get you going in 11 or 12Kts fairly easily I would think - maybe less. They are grunty kites for their size. I'd love a 5.5m Cloud for 15 - 20Kts.

Yesterdays foiling session was another progression. Up till this week, the kite has been like a set of training wheels on my first bike. The training wheels were used to keep the bike upright. The rider has not yet developed the muscle memory skills to balance without the aid or guidance from the training wheels. It is much easier to balance on the foil with a bigger kite.
Realising that I was riding and controlling the direction of the foil a number of times, without direct input from the kite was revealing. It became an enjoyable challenge to navigate and fly the foil with as little input possible from the kite. This was greatly assisted by the use of a small responsive kite. The sweet spot for this particular kite is quite small. Therefore keeping the foil on the fly under 18 knots required more balance skills, and greater kite flying skills. Plenty of spills were the order of the day however.
Foiling and life are quite analogous to one and other. The ability to foil or live life, with as little input from anything else is satisfyingly gratifying. Foiling, like life, is best enjoyed with minimal attachments.

I learnt another lesson today in session 9 - but not counting it as a session if that's ok?
2 to 3 kn of wind is not enough for a 12 or even a 17 m strutless Cloud kite.
But they do fly nicely in the sky regardless.
Next time I'll stick with having a surf.

A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

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dorothyinste said..
A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

My favourite sessions are 8-10knots on the swan river with my 21m Flysurfer and Zeeko Carver. No-one else out and like hanging from a cloud.......tricky bit is landing the big bird when no-one around:)

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dorothyinste said..
A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

I think a 19 is way to big. You'll get uo, overpowered very quickly and then end up out of control. It's much easier with a fast 12-13m kite, it just takes some practice to get up and generate apparent wind..
Good luck!

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Fly on da wall said..

dorothyinste said..
A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

I think a 19 is way to big. You'll get uo, overpowered very quickly and then end up out of control. It's much easier with a fast 12-13m kite, it just takes some practice to get up and generate apparent wind..
Good luck!

Biggest kite I use now is a 10 Reo. I can get out in 7 to 9 knots. You have to have your transitions down in order to stay powered with such a small kite other wise it's easy to stall in such light winds. Once your apparent wind speed built it shouldn't be an issue.

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dorothyinste said..
A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

Once you get your sea legs on your foil, you will develop the ability to fly a much smaller kite.

I will occasionally try a 17m cloud on 30m lines, but the wind is no more than 7 knots and half the time I can't even get on the board (I need a bigger board in light wind). But if do, as soon as head upwind, I am often struggling to the control power due to the apparent wind.

It's great nutting out what will and will not work in low wind conditions.

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bigtone667 said..

dorothyinste said..
A previous avid foiler commented on this thread recently, foiling has almost limitless avenues for progression.
This was again demonstrated to myself with yesterdays light wind session. 10 knots and 19m Flysurfer. Trying to find the appropriate balance of controlled foil flight while maintaining full kite control. This skill set, up till now has shown to be the most difficult of all. After three sessions with the flysurfer, not one ending in a successfully controlled run. Excellent for someone learning how to channel frustrations into challenges. To date, getting a grasp on the 19m behemoth has proven to be...frustrating.

Once you get your sea legs on your foil, you will develop the ability to fly a much smaller kite.

I will occasionally try a 17m cloud on 30m lines, but the wind is no more than 7 knots and half the time I can't even get on the board (I need a bigger board in light wind). But if do, as soon as head upwind, I am often struggling to the control power due to the apparent wind.

It's great nutting out what will and will not work in low wind conditions.

I think you are right about that. A board that floats makes a big difference. This is where you can be okay in 5 to 7 knots with smaller kites... (not saying a 10, but a 10 Chrono or the like for sure). Having that float where you don't sink is big. More time to develop the wind speed with the kite. And I agree also, it's been fun trying to work out the right combo.

i'm pretty stoked today. after 5 sessions and about 3.5 hours it all clicked where i can go natural footed confidently without thinking too much about the foil. standing up straight and subconsciously adjusting the foil. finally i can just stand up look around and enjoy gliding above the water. The other way (goofy) not so confident but getting better. really pumped. super excited!!!