Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

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Harrow said..
Commsec trading account applications are delayed due to the higher than usual number of applicants. Looks like everyone is getting ready for the starting gun.

Don't worry - plenty of time to buy in and you'll never hope to pick the bottom. Might want to talk to a broker though. They will hear stuff you wasn't read about. Especially financial positions of companies.

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holy guacamole said..
Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

100% right !
virus was the catalyst from left field that always starts the correction.

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Mark _australia said..
Geez I wish I had money to buy shares right now

I am keen on investing in something can't tell you what though but it's finally been legalised in Canada for one.. Canadian friends said people just queued up at the shops on the first week massive lines not just that I know people that have been harvesting it for years.. (in Canada)..
Anyway.. For westpac to buy shares/put money in costs $30/35 every buy and sell

Question is...
Can anyone recommend a cheap$reliable app please that isn't thirty+$ to either 'buy or sell' because I have never done it but now I am going to... But I don't really know how to..
Thanks in advance

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timmybuddhadude said..

Mark _australia said..
Geez I wish I had money to buy shares right now

I am keen on investing in something can't tell you what though but it's finally been legalised in Canada for one.. Canadian friends said people just queued up at the shops on the first week massive lines not just that I know people that have been harvesting it for years.. (in Canada)..
Anyway.. For westpac to buy shares/put money in costs $30/35 every buy and sell

Question is...
Can anyone recommend a cheap$reliable app please that isn't thirty+$ to either 'buy or sell' because I have never done it but now I am going to... But I don't really know how to..
Thanks in advance

Save yourself the trouble and just give your money to me. You going to lose it anyway with your approach and at least with me it will have a nice loving home !!

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holy guacamole said..
Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

I wish you had joined this site much earlier. This advice would have been helpful a year ago!

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Harrow said..
Commsec trading account applications are delayed due to the higher than usual number of applicants. Looks like everyone is getting ready for the starting gun.

Starting gun. Probably, but I reckon it will more likely be a well organised massive pump and dump with retailers left holding the bag before more massive drops as liquidity causes the "too big to fail" to fail.
Governments have allowed/encouraged this (the state of the economy) to happen and I think the problem is too big to be fixed other than a total crash, burn, reset of the system.
I'd love to and hope to be wrong because I've become quite used to a relatively comfortable life over the last 53 years.

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bobajob said... ...but I reckon it will more likely be a well organised massive pump and dump...

Oh yeah. the ASX200 roller coaster has only just begun, for sure.

Will be interesting to keep an eye on the daily volumes.

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holy guacamole said..
Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

I don't think the conventional capitalist system is failing as all the first world nations are capitalist, the communist and marxists states have failed, that's why China is turning into a capitalist market. I would agree the finance systems have some major problems including printing money only then to loan it to the banks which already have too much debt.

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Harrow said..

bobajob said... ...but I reckon it will more likely be a well organised massive pump and dump...

Oh yeah. the ASX200 roller coaster has only just begun, for sure.

Will be interesting to keep an eye on the daily volumes.

Everyone is watching Warren Buffett and waiting for when he starts buying . He has been sitting on US$180 billion to invest for 12 months waiting for this correction ( not covid19 induced) .

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holy guacamole said..
Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

You made one basic error in that post which was the use the word "conventional".

Conventional capitalism has its roots in trade, People, particularly ship owners, realised that they could increase their wealth by using other peoples wealth in order to help finance forays into the wild blue yonder in order to bring products from far away places, such as tea, herbs, spices silk and what not which commanded a high premium in their ports of origin.

So they put their heads together and sold shares in their ventures. The Portugese perfected accountancy based on this type of transaction as the folk involved had to use real money, gold or silver or products which were in demand for barter to pay for the exchanges when they reached the far east. Or wherever it was that they were going.

This was conventional capitalism. If the ship sunk then the investors lost the lot. If they made it back they stood to make good profits. If they made it back late the profits were reduced because the blokes who made it back early had already filled the market.

Today's "conventional capitalism" bears little resemblance to that scenario. It comes about through the development of banks and the gradual acceptance of fiat currency.

Its a clusterf^ck of note and the biggest con ever perpetrated on humans.

Unfortunately most humans identify so strongly with their opinions that they cannot accept that their understanding of how money is created in today's world might be completely wrong so they will not bother to investigate it.

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Little Jon said....I don't think the conventional capitalist system is failing as all the first world nations are capitalist, the communist and marxists states have failed, that's why China is turning into a capitalist market. I would agree the finance systems have some major problems including printing money only then to loan it to the banks which already have too much debt.

holy guacamole said..
Said it before.....the problem isn't Covid-19.

The problem is underlying debt fuelled by a failing conventional capitalist system.

There are those who will Try and convince us that it's all just a virus, but the real virus is out of control capitalism, built on a mirage of fake money.

I hope this estimation is completely wrong...

That's not what Macquarie Bank thinks.

www.businessinsider.in/macquarie-capitalism-is-dead-and-finance-has-become-a-poison-and-there-are-3-ways-this-era-will-end/articleshow/63068484.cms

The ship will right... eventually. But not as we know it Jim, not as we know it.

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holy guacamole said..

Paddles B'mere said..
Yep, very true Chris. Nationalisation of all industry is an economic failure, we only have to look at the communism explosion after WW2 to see that, none of those countries have bothered persisting with that economic model. A good balance is the go, nationalise those industries and services that are in the national interest and then let private enterprise own and manage the rest.

Yes a good balance is key but I don't think Chris understands. Who's talking about nationalising all industry? Who's talking about government running anything?

When public utilities were in operation, government had almost nothing to do with their running. We had state electricity commissions for example. They were efficient and full of expertise. People were proud of their job and their service.

Now we've privatised everything, we privatise the profits and the service is outsourced to a thousand companies who don't give a rats about anything but profit. It's these inherent complexities in a privatised utilities system that leads to the massive price increases.

I made it very clear what I think. I think we should nationalise the following only:

Mining (we own the resources anyway and we rent out the mining licenses). Mining is one of our biggest income earners but most of the profit gets offshored.

Public utilities (we owned them for decades and they worked just fine). Privatisation is a failure. It's led to massive price increases, inefficiency and delapidation.

Health care (healthcare should be 100% not for profit). Making profit from healthcare is highly unethical and makes it very expensive.

Now if that equals socialism then fark me, there's a lot of socialist countries and that's a "stupid opinion", to quote Chris.

hi bono /adriano
just as the sharemarket shxts the bed every 30 years or so due to traders memories, i think will be a part of deeper capitalism crisis every 100 years ot so. its the nature of things to boom and bust. back in the old days everything was publicly owned. here is the correction. once they are all government run though in decades to come they will gradually start privatising them again. it is more efficient for the private sector to run. have u ever worked or had anything to do with a government organisation? its why private companies even use contractors for things they could do inhouse.

what about QANTAS shares as a total gamble? totally on the nose. but what will happen when the government aquires? what happened to air italia? (i dont know)

i think my money is on the asx200 and not for a couple of months.

The assertion that private enterprise runs public utilities or healthcare more efficiently than state run entities is a myth sold to us by greedy corporations and their mates in the political class. Sounds like many people are still easily led by confirmation bias.

The other issue is the loss of expertise in a cohesive organisation, say like an electricity authority. Ever tried to get some infrastructure approved or fixed recently? The buck gets passes from one office to another and from one private outsourced contractor to another that has no responsibility to the consumer. It's a farce.

As for Macquarie Bank's statement, I think I'm inclined to place some trust in one of Australia's most capitalist companies knows what they're talking about when they say "conventional capitalism is failing".

That doesn't sound like a correction or re-adjustment to me...

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myusernam said..
i think my money is on the asx200 and not for a couple of months.

It will be another month for the infection figures to really go skyward. Another 8% drop so far today, AX200 sitting at 4400. Like I said elsewhere, I figure 3500 will be where it goes, and this will be driven by the sheer panic when the Aussie infection figures match those of Italy, and then the death rate goes through the roof after the ICU beds are all full, expected to occur early April.

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Harrow said..

myusernam said..
i think my money is on the asx200 and not for a couple of months.

It will be another month for the infection figures to really go skyward. Another 8% drop so far today, AX200 sitting at 4400. Like I said elsewhere, I figure 3500 will be where it goes, and this will be driven by the sheer panic when the Aussie infection figures match those of Italy, and then the death rate goes through the roof after the ICU beds are all full, expected to occur early April.

not to mention large parts of the economy shutting and failing. Panic and fundamentals/ good reason to panic.

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myusernam said..
not to mention large parts of the economy shutting and failing. Panic and fundamentals/ good reason to panic.

Yeah, double whammy. It's the reason I've picked 3500 as the figure. Damn, aren't we lucky to be experiencing this once-in-a-lifetime event.

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Harrow said..

myusernam said..
not to mention large parts of the economy shutting and failing. Panic and fundamentals/ good reason to panic.

Yeah, double whammy. It's the reason I've picked 3500 as the figure. Damn, aren't we lucky to be experiencing this once-in-a-lifetime event.

Well I missed 3500 last time. This time I wont......!

how much is eg $10000 at 3500 when it get back to 6500 say?

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myusernam said..
how much is eg $10000 at 3500 when it get back to 6500 say?

If you punt on westpac about 6X

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myusernam said..
how much is eg $10000 at 3500 when it get back to 6500 say?

Do you mean $10000 x 6500/3500 = $18571, assuming you are simply buying into an index ETF. Is that what you wanted to know?

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Harrow said..

myusernam said..
how much is eg $10000 at 3500 when it get back to 6500 say?

Do you mean $10000 x 6500/3500 = $18571, assuming you are simply buying into an index ETF. Is that what you wanted to know?

yeah if i get in with an ETF (say asx200) at 3500 and it gets back to 6500. which i think u confirmed above?

Dividends should no longer be assumed . Read up on what happened to FLT today

BBOZ.AX on fire

Just saw the news. 40,000 west Aussies queuing up at Centrelink coz they just lost their hospitality Jobs

Wait until it's all over and if not managed correctly a booming economy without brakes could be interesting too.

Yeah, the joint is going to go nuts once this is all over.

And they'll let it go nuts till they've all made their money back(plus a bit more). Then WHACK! A raft of levy's and fee increases to pay it all back, smashing the people who can least afford it. Same **** different excuse