Faaarrrrk Harrow, let's hope it doesn't go there, but It'll be good for Australian manufacturing to hopefully become viable again and we'll make a good cheap holiday destination for overseas visitors and the government should be able to rake in some more resource royalties.

Banana republic.....here we come....

The most disgusting now are some billionaires comments and funds managers about opportunity of life time to earn money. The rich get even richer every second the stock fall. Shorting , selling , earning money in the time the rest of the world suffer.

ASX200, best ever and worst ever records on consecutive days. How low can we go? Get your picks in now.

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Harrow said..
ASX200, best ever and worst ever records on consecutive days. How low can we go? Get your picks in now.

Funny that those should get burned do receive the greatest life support.
Boeing will receive 80 bln dollars . Finances were ruined by producing crappy planes , but the relief comes in the form of virus pandemic infection. I strongly suspect that the richest get even richer when everything ends and the poorest get even poorer if survived at all. Reminds me loudly advertised effort by government to support drought stricken farmers.
When I did ask to get mine piece of 50% contribution by government promised to build , improve water storage infrastructure - - request was dismissed because of the drought. Drought been called on my region and no grants available at all. My empirical test of good will government was made on mere $2500 worth storage water tank, get burned instead.

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Macroscien said..

Harrow said..
ASX200, best ever and worst ever records on consecutive days. How low can we go? Get your picks in now.

Funny that those should get burned do receive the greatest life support.
Boeing will receive 80 bln dollars . Finances were ruined by producing crappy planes , but the relief comes in the form of virus pandemic infection. I strongly suspect that the richest get even richer when everything ends and the poorest get even poorer if survived at all. Reminds me loudly advertised effort by government to support drought stricken farmers.
When I did ask to get mine piece of 50% contribution by government promised to build , improve water storage infrastructure - - request was dismissed because of the drought. Drought been called on my region and no grants available at all. My empirical test of good will government was made on mere $2500 worth storage water tank, get burned instead.

Are you nuts? You bought a farm from someone else, in an area that was already drought declared. You no doubt paid less for it than if it were not in drought.

You are then complaining that the government denied you a handout because the farm was already in drought when you bought it.

You are hardly a struggling farmer that has been on the land for decades and were just doing it tough. How about you leave the handouts for people that actually need them and have been active producers in the past?

Boeing will no doubt be getting support because they employ a huge number of people. The impact of them failing is much more than just the dollars thrown at them to keep them afloat.

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FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

Harrow said..
ASX200, best ever and worst ever records on consecutive days. How low can we go? Get your picks in now.

Funny that those should get burned do receive the greatest life support.
Boeing will receive 80 bln dollars . Finances were ruined by producing crappy planes , but the relief comes in the form of virus pandemic infection. I strongly suspect that the richest get even richer when everything ends and the poorest get even poorer if survived at all. Reminds me loudly advertised effort by government to support drought stricken farmers.
When I did ask to get mine piece of 50% contribution by government promised to build , improve water storage infrastructure - - request was dismissed because of the drought. Drought been called on my region and no grants available at all. My empirical test of good will government was made on mere $2500 worth storage water tank, get burned instead.

Are you nuts? You bought a farm from someone else, in an area that was already drought declared. You no doubt paid less for it than if it were not in drought.

You are then complaining that the government denied you a handout because the farm was already in drought when you bought it.

You are hardly a struggling farmer that has been on the land for decades and were just doing it tough. How about you leave the handouts for people that actually need them and have been active producers in the past?

Boeing will no doubt be getting support because they employ a huge number of people. The impact of them failing is much more than just the dollars thrown at them to keep them afloat.

Thanks to small improvement those drought area can be converted into healthy again. That is what I am doing. Beside there is not permanent but seasonal drought area. Now is all green and I hope stay so for next decade. The point I am trying to make is such that our government is not interested in promoting our small business development at all. The bulk of government money from taxes go to the biggest businesses - that in reality employ a few and contribute even less to common coffers.China have been able to achieve this fantastic transformation from the poorest to the strongest economy due to massive government support to all sorts industrial and agricultural activities. Australian business is almost non existent - and now we have the best prove- how vulnerable we are without external import. Almost nothing in done here beside coal and iron ore. Cost of doing business in Australia is the one of the highest in whole world. Due to red tape exclusively not geographical realities.Indeed I bought a farm because I have been looking for industrial land to setup/expand business- but none was/is available at the 200 km radius!! You simply can;t but a piece of land to do something at cheaper price per m2 then luxury apartment building!

This has shown us how vulnerable we are and hopefully government will take the opportunity to bring back local production of the basic necessities and also manufacturing industries for the local market. It's an opportunity for a fresh start.

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Paddles B'mere said..
This has shown us how vulnerable we are and hopefully government will take the opportunity to bring back local production of the basic necessities and also manufacturing industries for the local market. It's an opportunity for a fresh start.

There is hope that pandemic will fruit with some reflexions. You could do a lot here onsite, if not a red tape , lack of access to local resources and opportunities. With example of those "declared drought area" - that is completely nonsense. What is lacking - the infrastructure to catch and distribute precious water wisely. There is plenty of water recently , but all drained and gone back through Brisbane river to the ocean. In 3 days none none is left, saved, use for extended period. Not a single dam, reservoir unless with solely purpose to feed city dwellers at the bottom .When I bought a acrorage home , I was told that none of the business can be carried out from home! 2 acres in the city and you could not even do mail orders through eBAy without conflict with local authorities. You need to buy or hire commercial space which put you straight half a million dollars back invested into useless commercial estate instead of your business equipment and stock.If we look at history the biggest businesses in the world ( including Apple and Microsoft) started from home garages.Here you could not even operate anything.All I know local government mentality is to create costs for businesses and barriers not opportunities.

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Paddles B'mere said..
This has shown us how vulnerable we are and hopefully government will take the opportunity to bring back local production of the basic necessities and also manufacturing industries for the local market. It's an opportunity for a fresh start.

Yep. This sick form of capitalism based on ridiculous amounts of unsustainable debt and foreign ownership is a stupid plan.

It's also highly un-patriotic.

True patriots would support the public ownership of all mines, all ports and public infrastructure, all utilities, all hospitals and all schools. Our wealth, for our people. Not our wealth, going offshore to some tax haven in the farking Bahamas.

Looks like the hard core dry capitalists are about to get a huge slap in the face as the debt mountain takes a heavy toll on their bubble.

The economic rationalist's dream is set to crumble....sooner than I thought, unless some miracle will unfold in the next few weeks....perhaps some Hillsong prayers and happy clapping will help?

Well I guess I'm not a full patriot HG, I'm not a huge fan of nationalisation of all industries but am more for private enterprise to operate all forms of industry with assistance if required for industries of national importance (medicines etc). Nationalisation of communications networks and electricity transmission networks is already in place. These events should be a major wakeup call for Australia, we haven't really had a good one since 1940.

No worries. Never too late to be 100% for Australian interests.

I think it's pretty hard to argue against keeping our national wealth onshore, no matter what one's economic ideology.

Covid-19 is exposing the fragility and futility of endless debt manufactured by the present from of foreign controlled capitalism.

I think it's interesting/hypocritical that the people/politicians who spout the most about patriotism are the ones encouraging mechanisms that offshore record amounts of our wealth. Look at the LNG debacle for instance!

Wake up Australia!

Australia will never be a socialist country

Manufacturing can only happen here if the government keeps its greedy hands off other people's money.

Government is not the solution, government is the problem

Allow manufacturers to make money here and they will manufacturer things here.

Who said anything about socialism or the government owning that stuff?

It would be owned by the people, managed by the people and make money for the people. Imagine if those rivers of gold stayed in Australia instead of making foreign corporations and their shareholders wealthy?

Then we'd be the lucky country again.

Tony you're obsessed with "socialism", The Greens and gender politics. You must have nightmares about it.

Medicare works great. Utilities used to be publicly owned. It's not socialism. It's just national pride.

Why is it OK for a few wealthy foreign corporations own all that wealth, but not OK for Australian people to own and benefit from it fully?

You need to get out more.

PS....funny how even the most dry free-market capitalist becomes a socialist when their system fails and they accept handouts from the public purse....even merchant bankers....

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Paddles B'mere said..
This has shown us how vulnerable we are and hopefully government will take the opportunity to bring back local production of the basic necessities and also manufacturing industries for the local market. It's an opportunity for a fresh start.

It would be even better if the government continued to support these business they save by buying from them rather than buying from Asia because its cheaper.
You cant have your high standard of living for all Aussie workers and then say Australian businesses must offer products cheaper !

Yes main and paddles but we need to go much further. We need to also take back ownership and control of our mineral wealth, our infrastructure and our public utilities from private interests. We need to end the legal loopholes that allow fracking under viable agricultural land.

We could become a renewable energy super power, but our policy makers are still talking about building new coal mines and new coal power stations.

We could be manufacturing high quality steels and metals here instead of shipping ores overseas along with the coal to smelter it.

This is an opportunity to take back control of our country's wealth and environment for the benefit of the people of Australia, not for the purse of a few foreign corporations and their shareholders.

I am not talking about nationalising all industries paddles - just our mineral resources, public utilities and all public infrastructure. These are the most profitable sectors now but the wealth is largely going offshore.

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holy guacamole said..


I think it's interesting/hypocritical that the people/politicians who spout the most about patriotism are the ones encouraging mechanisms that offshore record amounts of our wealth. Look at the LNG debacle for instance!

I'll give you a better example.

McKinsey's do a study on how to increase a Pharmaceuticals company's bottom line profit.
They currently have a factory in Europe, The US, Mexico and one in China. This geographical spread was intentional when originally set up. Study shows expanding Chinese factory by 100% and closing down the other 3 will reduce cost of sale and cut overheads considerably. McKinsey negotiates deal with Chinese Authorities who incentivise the development of the extended factory. JP Morgan refinance the business, buy the factory in China and fiance the expansion of the factory.
End result:
- Pharmaceutical company's profit jumps considerably and shareprice goes up so CEO get large bonus from his incentive scheme
- McKinsey makes $millions in consultancy fees
- JP Morgan picks up a considerable asset for a property fund
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the financing package of the redevelopment
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the refinancing of the business
- China gets a significant boost to their construction industry, property values and creates thousands of local jobs
This has been happening under the Obama administration for 2 terms and he didn't say a thing BECAUSE - he took money from them as well !
Plenty of Aussie examples as well !

Indeed main. I think all health should be 100% publicly owned and private interests banned from development of medical treatments of all kinds. Institutions like the CSIRO should be given the power set up research units working with the medical profession to develop treatments for the people and by the people - not for profit.

Nothing in health should be for profit. It's unethical.

Taking back control of our mineral wealth would easily cover these initiatives, but hey, political parties get big donations from private mining and health companies....

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Paddles B'mere said..
This has shown us how vulnerable we are and hopefully government will take the opportunity to bring back local production of the basic necessities and also manufacturing industries for the local market. It's an opportunity for a fresh start.

Ha ha, what planet are you on? As soon as this is over you, me and everyone else will just start buying the cheap stuff out of China again. The govt won't roll out stimulus packages to bring manufacturing back home, they'll do it because people needs jobs and food on the table.

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holy guacamole said..
PS....funny how even the most dry free-market capitalist becomes a socialist when their system fails and they accept handouts from the public purse....even merchant bankers....

That's Lieberals for you ...privitise the profits , socialise the losses...its in action right now

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Main said..

holy guacamole said..


I think it's interesting/hypocritical that the people/politicians who spout the most about patriotism are the ones encouraging mechanisms that offshore record amounts of our wealth. Look at the LNG debacle for instance!

I'll give you a better example.

McKinsey's do a study on how to increase a Pharmaceuticals company's bottom line profit.
They currently have a factory in Europe, The US, Mexico and one in China. This geographical spread was intentional when originally set up. Study shows expanding Chinese factory by 100% and closing down the other 3 will reduce cost of sale and cut overheads considerably. McKinsey negotiates deal with Chinese Authorities who incentivise the development of the extended factory. JP Morgan refinance the business, buy the factory in China and fiance the expansion of the factory.
End result:
- Pharmaceutical company's profit jumps considerably and shareprice goes up so CEO get large bonus from his incentive scheme
- McKinsey makes $millions in consultancy fees
- JP Morgan picks up a considerable asset for a property fund
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the financing package of the redevelopment
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the refinancing of the business
- China gets a significant boost to their construction industry, property values and creates thousands of local jobs
This has been happening under the Obama administration for 2 terms and he didn't say a thing BECAUSE - he took money from them as well !
Plenty of Aussie examples as well !

Gov owns all property in China, they would lease factory .

Well the free loans are here Main

0.25% interest only non recourse loan if you are a business courtesy of the RBA and big 4

Just like happened to my yank mate in the GFC

Now to pick the bottom (or near enough to it) in bank stocks...

Well Chris, you wait and see where those "cheap" prices end up when this is all done and dusted. The exchange rate to US$ has plummeted and when more currency is added into circulation it won't change back and imports won't be quite as attractive as they were a few months ago.

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Paddles B'mere said..
Well Chris, you wait and see where those "cheap" prices end up when this is all done and dusted. The exchange rate to US$ has plummeted and when more currency is added into circulation it won't change back and imports won't be quite as attractive as they were a few months ago.

yeah exactly - when the AUD is said and done we wont be able to afford that cheap chinese crap anymore

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bazz61 said..

Main said..

holy guacamole said..


I think it's interesting/hypocritical that the people/politicians who spout the most about patriotism are the ones encouraging mechanisms that offshore record amounts of our wealth. Look at the LNG debacle for instance!

I'll give you a better example.

McKinsey's do a study on how to increase a Pharmaceuticals company's bottom line profit.
They currently have a factory in Europe, The US, Mexico and one in China. This geographical spread was intentional when originally set up. Study shows expanding Chinese factory by 100% and closing down the other 3 will reduce cost of sale and cut overheads considerably. McKinsey negotiates deal with Chinese Authorities who incentivise the development of the extended factory. JP Morgan refinance the business, buy the factory in China and fiance the expansion of the factory.
End result:
- Pharmaceutical company's profit jumps considerably and shareprice goes up so CEO get large bonus from his incentive scheme
- McKinsey makes $millions in consultancy fees
- JP Morgan picks up a considerable asset for a property fund
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the financing package of the redevelopment
- JP Morgan makes $millions from the refinancing of the business
- China gets a significant boost to their construction industry, property values and creates thousands of local jobs
This has been happening under the Obama administration for 2 terms and he didn't say a thing BECAUSE - he took money from them as well !
Plenty of Aussie examples as well !

Gov owns all property in China, they would lease factory .

No mate they are too clever for that ! They've had Special Economic Zones like Guangdong since the mid 90's. Chinese Govt bends over backwards to get foreign investment into labour intensive industries to locate into these SEZ's.
Investment banks have been paving the way for multi-nationals to shut down operations in first world countries and set up here with cheap land costs, cheap building costs and cheap labour. Not to mention minimal tax. No more expat packages for management either - local managers are less than half the price !

Unfortunately I played a part in this in the early days without really appreciating the big picture.

- Special tax incentives for foreign investments in the SEZs.
- Greater independence from the central government on international trade activities.
- Economic characteristics are represented as "4 principles":

1. Construction primarily relies on attracting and utilizing foreign capital
2. Primary economic forms are Sino-foreign joint ventures and partnerships as well as wholly foreign-owned enterprises
3. Products are primarily export-oriented
4. Economic activities are primarily driven by market forces

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Bara said..
Well the free loans are here Main

0.25% interest only non recourse loan if you are a business courtesy of the RBA and big 4

Just like happened to my yank mate in the GFC

Now to pick the bottom (or near enough to it) in bank stocks...

Free loans sound like the old "free beer tomorrow" signs in my local pub.

Looking forward to the details.......

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Main said..

Bara said..
Well the free loans are here Main

0.25% interest only non recourse loan if you are a business courtesy of the RBA and big 4

Just like happened to my yank mate in the GFC

Now to pick the bottom (or near enough to it) in bank stocks...

Free loans sound like the old "free beer tomorrow" signs in my local pub.

Looking forward to the details.......

the credit is drying up, supposedly
the cost of borrowing is going to increase, I'm not sure how when govt has dropped interest rates, so it has confused me.

most agricultural enterprises might get 60% of what they are asking for (The West today's paper)

Try and ask for a business refinance and increase and see what you get?

I say it again, it's an ideal opportunity for the government to get us back into manufacturing again, especially for goods that have shown up to be in short supply once the offshore supply chain was interrupted. We should have the capacity to make all our own generic drugs for instance. We ship our wood and recyclable paper offshore to make paper products that get shipped back here, there's good reason to produce here now and the list goes on. We weren't able to compete previously because it was so much cheaper to buy (labour) from an offshore low cost centre, but this "adjustment" will see offshoring not be quite so lucrative any more. Change creates opportunity people, our high labour costs were a product of our high housing costs and a devaluation of the Aussie dollar could work out ok for a lot of people, especially producers and exporters. Now we need tax reform to kill off our infatuation with real estate speculation paid down by cheap debt costs.

Like I said paddles, if we took control of our mineral resources, public utilities and healthcare back from corporate interests we'd be set.

Governments wouldn't need to borrow money at all because we'd be so wealthy. Many countries have done this and they're rolling in cash.

Unfortunately, Australia is captive to a narrow corporate interest that is bleeding us dry.

The true patriots amongst us see this.

The fake capitalists like TonyAbbott don't get it.

We call ourselves the Commonwealth of Australia but that's just nonsense. There's nothing common about our wealth anymore.