Hey bible pretty down with slavery so theres that.... aswell @petermac- obviously you are the camel that should be shoo'ed away before you scare off all the christians and the donations dry up.

$1,958,071.02 their gonna do it yeeeeewwwwwww!!!!!

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cammd said..

Kamikuza said..

cammd said..
So if you read what Izzy said how does it breach the above, he says sinners will go to hell if they don't repent, then he says Jesus loves you and wants you to turn away from sin so you can be with him.

He's literally saying that living a normal non-Christian life is morally wrong. That's not treating anyone with dignity, for a start.

DCM, Izzy.

that's religion, no religion has ever promised everyone will go to the good place, you have to follow the rules, thats the model, start a campaign to outlaw it if you like, but for now its legal and its against the law to discrimate based on it.

Not my contract saying "treat everyone with dignity".

So he really should just man up and take one for his religious beliefs, eh.

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Paradox said..

Kamikuza said..

So what you're saying is, he's pretty much just a slave owned by AR? Yikes.

Really? I'm going to assume you are taking the piss there....

If his contract literally states "every move you make, every breath you take, RA'll be watching you" ... then no

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Paradox said..
The key to winning a discrimination argument in this case would be to prove that a someone of a different (or no) religion would have been treated differently in the same circumstances. ie not terminated for the same breach.

Buckle up, here we go!

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awkward customer said..
Hey bible pretty down with slavery so theres that.... aswell @petermac- obviously you are the camel that should be shoo'ed away before you scare off all the christians and the donations dry up.

Yeah but Christians aren't very good Christians -- I keep asking them to sell their daughters to me (the dishes are piling up!) but they're not interested. I just can't fathom it, eh.

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Paradox said..

cammd said..

that's religion, no religion has ever promised everyone will go to the good place, start a campaign to outlaw it if you like, but for now its legal and its against the law to discrimate based on it.

You really need to understand anti discrimination laws better. I seems that 90% of people out there supporting Folau don't understand either, but that doesn't make them correct.

Anti discrimination laws do not protect your right to DO whatever you like in the name of religion. They protect an individual from being treated differently BECAUSE of their religion. You still have to abide by the same laws and employment conditions as everyone else no matter your faith.

The key to winning a discrimination argument in this case would be to prove that a someone of a different (or no) religion would have been treated differently in the same circumstances. ie not terminated for the same breach.

So if lets say another player posted stuff on social media that breached that same clause - lets say he was racist for argument, went through the same warning and chances process - but was not sacked. That could be grounds for discrimination.

Ie Folau has to show that RA sacked him because of his religion. And to cut short the argument, religion being the motivating force behind the breach should not be a factor in a discrimination case, it would have to be the motivating factor in the termination decision.

That is a very good point Paradox. religious freedom does NOT allow one to do as they please with their beliefs.

However, it would mark a huge turning point in our culture if it was determined that quoting/paraphrasing the Bible is offensive, disreputable or discriminatory.

Izzy's fund about to hit $2,000,000

Clarence

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Kamikuza said..

Paradox said..

Kamikuza said..

So what you're saying is, he's pretty much just a slave owned by AR? Yikes.

Really? I'm going to assume you are taking the piss there....

If his contract literally states "every move you make, every breath you take, RA'll be watching you" ... then no

Or it will come back and STING you in the asssss

i like what u did there Kam

The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away

$1,994,987.11 so close come on fellas you can do it!!!!

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clarence said..

However, it would mark a huge turning point in our culture if it was determined that quoting/paraphrasing the Bible is offensive, disreputable or discriminatory.

Actually I am not sure it would even raise eyebrows outside of certain circles. My understanding is that there are plenty of parts of the bible that would possibly fall into those categories and there are plenty of people who would label them so. Fortunately none of those adjectives are what is being claimed in this instance.

Paraphrasing anything is an issue, as it is essentially putting your own spin on verse, and we all know how easily faith is twisted by interpretations....

Dignity, respect and fairness are the words used in the CoC and the argument is that the "paraphrasing" and Falou's own commentary is what was the issue. The actual bible quote beside the paraphrasing meme was apparently perfectly fine. If he had stuck with that it would not have been an issue. Paraphrasing is what crossed the line - repeatedly.

They did it!!! ding ding ding ding- all you nay sayer repent!

I called it! I am the new god!

$2,000,254.11 two millllllllion clams fellas!

Who dares deny now that a man can break his own finger in his own asshole!

The christians have shown us the way.

If what Izzy said is hate speech......by that rational, telling smokers to quit or they'll die must be next level extreme hate speech. So ridiculous.



I think calling supporters of free speech 'bigoted turds' is real hate speech though.

Am I right?

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awkward customer said..
They did it!!! ding ding ding ding- all you nay sayer repent!

I called it! I am the new god!

$2,000,254.11 two millllllllion clams fellas!

Who dares deny now that a man can break his own finger in his own asshole!

The christians have shown us the way.

You know if I was Falou...

i'd keep it in the media and push until I get 4mil from the faithful donations, then he can sit with RA in negotiations and say, OK, i'll take the donations, we both say we settled for a confidential undisclosed sum, I pay my legals the $300k they quoted and tell everyone they sucked the lot off me, and we all walk away happy!!!

Just saying..... I called it first awkward...

Well it would appear that at least Paradox has bothered to read the C.O.C. I have had a brief run through it as well, and it appears to be the manual for forming a circular firing squad.
Part 2 contains the C.O.C. which applies to players,coaches, Admin/ officers of a rugby body, match officials, spectators / parents, and all other participants.
Falou is alleged to have breached 1.7 use of social media:
1.7 Use Social Media appropriately. By all means share your positive experiences of Rugby but do not use Social Media as a means to breach any of the expectations and requirements of you as a player contained in this Code or in any Union, club or competition rules and regulations.
Now, expectation and requirements would include 1.3:
1.3 Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.

Interestingly, Admin are also subject to 3.2:
3.2 Treat everyone equally regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.
Also 3.7:
3.7 Act in good faith and in the best interests of your Rugby Body. This responsibility includes avoiding all conflicts of interest.
And 3.14:
3.14 Do not otherwise act in a way that may adversely affect or reflect on, or bring you, your team, club, Union or Rugby into disrepute or discredit. If you commit a criminal offence, this is likely to adversely reflect on you and your team, club, Union and Rugby.

Whoever lodged the complaint with R.A. by doing so, and using the C.O.C. of R.A. , they would fall under "all other participants"
they must also comply with:
6.2 Treat everyone equally regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.
6.12 Do not otherwise act in a way that may adversely affect or reflect on, or bring you, your team, club, Union or Rugby into disrepute or discredit. If you commit a criminal offence, this is likely to adversely reflect on you and your team, club, Union and Rugby.

Section 8 is involved with complaint handling:
8 COMPLAINT HANDLING
8.1 Each Rugby Body must put in place complaint handling procedures that are fair, just and transparent. All complaints should be managed consistent with the Rugby AU Complaint Handling Guidelines and should apply the following principles:
(a) treat complaints seriously:
(b) act promptly;
(c) treat people fairly and listen to all sides of the story;
(d) stay neutral;
(e) keep parties to the complaint informed;
(f) use all efforts to maintain confidentiality if possible;
(g) protect against victimisation;
(h) keep accurate records;
(i) make decisions based only on information gathered not personal views; and
(j) recommendations of disciplinary action should be proportionate to the breach.

Annexure 1; section 3. Sanctions. 3.2(iii)
(iii) the behaviour or conduct may have caused offence to the general public's sensibilities;

So, back to the circular firing squad, not only has Falou, been found to have breached the C.O.C. resulting in his dismissal, but R.A. officials and the complaintant, have breached 3.2 and 6.2 respectively, with regard to religious background.
The fact that Falou has amassed nearly $2 million dollars in 2 days, highlight the fact that the behaviour and conduct of the administrators and complaintant have certainly breached Annexure 1 sect. 3, 3.2 (iii)

So, on the count of 3, FIRE AND DUCK....

I like the term circular firing squad.

If Izzy believes in his morals and values so much why was he accepting millions a year from an organisation that has publicly stated it has morals and values that directly oppose his?

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morningsun said..
but R.A. officials and the complaintant, have breached 3.2 and 6.2 respectively, with regard to religious background.

I am assuming you are using religious discrimination as a basis?

If so I'd love to hear your argument on that. Please ensure you have the correct definition of discrimination though please. Specifically I want to know how RA have treated Folau differently because of his religious beliefs to say someone who breached in the same way with a different or no faith?

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Paradox said..

morningsun said..
but R.A. officials and the complaintant, have breached 3.2 and 6.2 respectively, with regard to religious background.

I am assuming you are using religious discrimination as a basis?

If so I'd love to hear your argument on that. Please ensure you have the correct definition of discrimination though please. Specifically I want to know how RA have treated Folau differently because of his religious beliefs to say someone who breached in the same way with a different or no faith?

Has someone else involved with R.A. who has no religious background, posted biblical quotations on social media?
Folau is a preacher in his community, he certainly has a "religious background" as referred to in the C.O.C.
He was sacked after someone, god knows who, complained to R.A. about his instagram post that contained a biblical quote, that they deemed personally to be offensive.
Where did I use the word "discrimination", that is from the C.O.C. Folau could argue that he has been harrased, bullied or discriminated against by his treatment from R.A. The fact that he is not allowed, on a personal instagram account, with no mention of R.A. to practice his beliefs, without it getting back to his employer, leading to his dismissal fits well with R.A.s, C.O.C.
1.3 Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.
Do you really think he has been treated, equally, fairly, or with dignity, for following his beliefs?
Your not the one who originally complained to R.A. are you?
Anyhow, shall we go with Cambridge Dictionarys U.K. defination of Discrimination:
treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:
It is very similar to the C.O.C. standard, except, R.A. mention religion, instead of etc.
So, until you play for the Wallibies, then post the same religious quote, then get no reprimand, or sacking, we do not have a proveable precedence set. I will not hold my breath.

Paradox you really are your name sake. I hope you are right and at least its only profitable corruption at the hart of this.
Corruption implies intelligence.

Unfortunately I believe the christians are trying to fight a proxy war for religious rights through a unlawfull dismissal case with a well organised corporation.

They would have done better if they pulled the same stunt against a lesser (weaker) entity with less access to legal aid etc.

These silly clowns never realised that if they win I will fire all the christians that work for me on the basis that I am enforcing my ( non christian ) beliefs blah blah... whatever ill muddy the water to that point.

And if they lose... god help any ch r istian who pipes up about anything.

Btw I'm trying to create traction for the term "finger point" as in the day that ended christendom in Australia because their avarice and greed led them to spend all their cash on a cause they subsequently lost instead of doing good in this world ( for the second time recently ).

They should have learnt their lesson with the plebiscite: their conservative lobbying (money) forced the politicians into a untenable situation between power full elites and democracy.

Ps. I won't really fire all the christians- I never hired any to start with, why would I?

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morningsun said..

Do you really think he has been treated, equally, fairly, or with dignity, for following his beliefs?

Ok if you are going to quote the CoC and ask for a test on compliance, then don't randomly add stuff to it. It makes you look manipulative, deceitful, amateurish or all 3. The CoC does not mention anything about people "following their beliefs". Following your beliefs is not a get out jail free card.

So I will fix that for you:

"Do you really think he has been treated, equally, fairly, or with dignity regardless of religious background."

By RA? Yes absolutely. Nothing RA has done has made reference to his religion. Everything RA has done has been about his breach of the Code via social media and nothing else. It doesn't matter what his motivation was, only that the code was breached. I can see no evidence that they would treat him any differently if he posted similar content and he was a Muslim, Buddhist or an Atheist. I am sure his defence will try though and they are much better at that crap than I am.

The burden is on Folau to prove he was treated unfairly because of his beliefs. I just gave one example of how it could be done, just because that example doesn't exist does't make him right. It just means I can't see a way he can prove it.

If you are asking that question in relation to social media, then probably not, but he has no contract with social media....

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awkward customer said..

These silly clowns never realised that if they win I will fire all the christians that work for me on the basis that I am enforcing my ( non christian ) beliefs blah blah... whatever ill muddy the water to that point.

Ps. I won't really fire all the christians- I never hired any to start with, why would I?

LOL, try being a teacher and getting hired by a Catholic School if you don't at least pretend to be Catholic!!!! or heaven forbid stay employed if you start preaching Muslim doctrine on your private facebook page... Try getting your kid in to one if you put down atheist as religion.....the "freedoms" certain circles are trying to get "upheld" may well solidly backfire on them if this actually gets up.

Be careful the battles you fight....

I wonder if the RWNJ Christians will support me if I paint a big sign on the front of my house that says

JESUS LOVES COP KILLERS

I know it might upset a few people, but it is my belief that Jesus loves everybody, so its factually correct.

Izzy is a whore, how many codes/ teams has he played for ?

Now he s got a new team, Right wing Christian culture warriors

what would Jesus do ?

Anyhow nice media distraction as the economy goes down the toilet

$2,117,733.40 I don't know, I'm kind of not as excited now that we have superceded 2m and I'm upgrading my prophecy to a total of 3.5m.
I just read the thread from the start to try get motivated again:

@kamikuza: be carefull when buying daughters- I seem to remember a case from sunday school where some dude got stooged with the whole married before lifting the veil thing and ended up with a plumper.
@paradox: the whole get them while they are young and not able to think for themselves religious school thing is a real sore point for me (but thats a different discussion) You make a fair comparison between folau and say a muslim person who snuck a teaching job at one. I believe the muslim person would not even have to say something hatefull to be fired, probably just outed. We would all laugh if said muslim tried to fight the firing and be like: "dude what did you expect?".

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SP said....If Izzy believes in his morals and values so much why was he accepting millions a year from an organisation that has publicly stated it has morals and values that directly oppose his?

Oh probably because he's arguably a narcissistic hypocrite without any sense of ethical or moral conduct.....

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Adriano said..

SP said....If Izzy believes in his morals and values so much why was he accepting millions a year from an organisation that has publicly stated it has morals and values that directly oppose his?

Oh probably because he's arguably a narcissistic hypocrite without any sense of ethical or moral conduct.....

And hence why some christians want him as their poster boy, because he will help their cause, to raise more money for themselves

Poor fella, how's he meant to get ahead in life if people are restricted from giving him handouts..

7news.com.au/sport/israel-folau-fundraiser-put-on-hold-only-hours-after-surpassing-2-million-mark-c-186739?fbclid=IwAR0Nt0eLn9z1r44d2l6mzaVo2jJvMpjEsX-lu1aivqUfrcQkgcwzE6F3S68

Yeah as if the hypocrite needs to fundraise. He's flush with his own cash.

This is however consistent with religious institutions taking money from individuals in order to further their own interests.

Magda has a counter fund.Why cant they all just agree to disagree.

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Foghorn said..
Magda has a counter fund.Why cant they all just agree to disagree.

Because someone must WIN to prove they're right. It's arguing on the internet IRL.

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Adriano said..


This is however consistent with religious institutions taking money from individuals in order to further their own interests.

Taxes for practically everything is the law. Taking money from individuals to further the purpose of Big Government.

Donations are not mandatory lol.