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IanR said.. Your comment "You need to stop linking simplistic "guns r bad, mmmkaaay" arguments to numbers in order to restrict them. Its just dumb." then proceed to use very simplistic statistics to say more gun make a safer society is simply moronic. I shows your inability to think things through.

I never said more guns make safer society. Never. Don't attribute to me what you like to think pro-gun people say
You are so against guns that you can't handle the fact responsible people have them.

And my reply sure as hell was not a rant - I simply said that the graph shows a drop, whereas loto says it seems there has been lots lately.
You love to fire stats at us gun owners but don't like it when its a two-way range?

And your whole argument is, and always has been, "guns are bad cos I don't like them.."
There is 100,000 licensed shooters in my state and none go on rampages. However the influx of Glocks into drug dealing gangs in the eastern states causing gang related murders is concerning. The building of submachine guns with online plans, by bikie gangs, is concerning.
What are you doing about gangs, drugs, illegal importation or manufacture?
Nah its easier to take a shot at the bloke who culls vermin now and then to ensure your food supply and cosy urban existence.

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Mark _australia said..

There is 100,000 licensed shooters in my state and none go on rampages.

Really ? The nation's worst mass shooting since the 1996 Port Arthur massacre was in WA in 2018, the murderer used 3 rifles all licensed to him.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmington_shooting

Im not having a go at you Markie saying you are not a responsible user, the problem is,
who IS a responsible user ?? And if they are today, who says they will be next month like in the WA massacre example ?

Need to have massive restrictions on who can own guns.

We do have massive restrictions. Your thing about OK today and not responsible tomorrow can be applied to pilots, doctors, drivers, licensed shotfirers or all manner to things you need a license for. Its simply not a case against guns per se


BTW I don;t think that's a rampage, it was all one family in one house. Terrible terrible thing - but when in that state of mind it would happen with any weapon to hand. I'm talking about walking down the street or thru a building shooting people.
It just doesn't happen.
Again - family murders happen at a far greater rate with other weapons so the terrible Osmigton tragedy is not really a bit case against guns. Especially when its 23yrs after Pt Arthur and people like IanR continually bleat about what a success the buyback was.

One of the worst things I've ever heard of is a mentally unstable abattoir worker who became obsessed with knives and cutting out female genitalia. Need I say more?
Now if he was a farm worker with access to the boss' guns and went and shot 3 ppl you'd all be screaming about guns.
Its not the implement, its the mental heath, its societal breakdown, its loss of traditional family unit, its glorification of mass shooters in the media and countless other things.

Its over simplistic to say its the gun.

Oh Mark how short your memory is
Years ago you spoke about a town in Texas where there was zero crime because of that counties open carry laws but of coarse you proved no link or proof of it's existence .
What was the point of your reference to Iceland increase in Firearm stats with your unbacked up proof and links?

Mark please fire what ever stats at me you like but back them up with links and proof not just very vague inaccurate opinions you get from the NRA. You choose to ignore that the Buy Back and NFA has been the biggest influence on reducing the deaths from Firearms in Australian history, because you didn't like it.

Have you also forgotten Osmington Mass shooting, just over 18 months ago, that pretty much ranks as a rampage in my mind. It points to WAPOL's inability to stay on top of highly stressed and possibly mentally unfit licensed shooters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmington_shooting

Your persecution complex from me is getting tired, you are the only one on here who tries to say all licensed firearm owners in Australia are law abiding citizens. This is clearly not true, most are but there are quite a few that are not.
Why are you opposed to psychological testing as part of our gun licensing process?

As for your unfounded comment about me being unaware or unconcerned about Bikie and drug gangs or pro gang firearm possession. I am very concerned about. What would you like me to do about it as a private citizen? I will do every thing within my power to stop it. I am not a Police officer or member of any organised crime gang.

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IanR said..

Years ago you spoke about a town in Texas where there was zero crime because of that counties open carry laws but of coarse you proved no link or proof of it's existence .

I will do every thing within my power to stop it. I am not a Police officer or member of any organised crime gang.

Kalispell county??
The local regulation was that all homes must keep and maintain a firearm.
I think that there were certain exceptions - criminal history, mentally unfit, conscientious objector etc.
Not sure about zero crime, but iirc the violent crime and home invasion rate is - or was - remarkedly lower than gun free zones.



Our Police do a damn good job of catching the crims - it is the court system that is letting them [and us] down.

SN
How about providing a link to backing up your assertion, or do you expect me to research it, or should I just believe you because you are a licensed firearm owner

PS what your opinion on psychological testing as part of our firearms licensing process

Oh SN there is no County Kalispell
There is a city in Montana of that name but it is in Flathead county

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalispell,_Montana

The overall crime rate in Kalispell is 36% higher than the national average. For every 100,000 people, there are 10.24 daily crimes that occur in Kalispell. Kalispell is safer than 27% of the cities in the United States. In Kalispell you have a 1 in 27 chance of becoming a victim of any crime.

www.areavibes.com/kalispell-mt/crime/

Most likely not good enough for you Ian, but that doesn't bother me much
You seem to enjoy doing stat. searches, so go for it!

I used to be in contact with a family in Kalispell swapping firearms related info - helping the Father and his mates with accurising old military rifles - Swiss K31, Lee Enfields, Mosins, FR7, FR8 etc, they knew everything about the AR family of firearms - but old military bolt actions were a mystery to them.
Meanwhile, his lovely daughter was teaching me the finer points of lead casting for high velocity bullets.

Also dealt with another family of firearms collectors living near Helena, and another family in Boseman.
Another contact is 2ic of a Georgia county sheriffs department - county is roughly the same population of our Geraldton district.
Another was [is?] FBI firearms and crime statistician.
Common topic of conversation was firearms licensing in our countries, crime rates, gang and drug culture encroaching into "small town" USA.

Common opinion among them all was that gun free zones didn't work, just making it easier for the crims.
Areas that made it easier for those with a clean slate to own small arms tended to have lower numbers of violent crime victims, with correspondingly higher rates of crims leaking vast amounts of bodily fluid. [castle doctrine]

All agreed that mental health checks would be a good idea - but how to apply the checks would be a problem [how do you make a crim get a psych. test done?]

As for psych. testing - fine by me - how about extending the offer to all potential offenders and not just firearm owners?

SN
Of coarse it's not good enough
An anecdote about how great guns are by a bunch of gun obsessives
Where is your hard proof that guns make a good society.
Both your and Marks argument is "We love guns so we should be able to have what ever we want" or "criminals have guns so we don't have to really prove we are responsible gun owners"
Pathetic
The fact is you guys want guns for exactly the same reason that the criminals do, the guns make you feel powerful.
All the malarkey about pest control is just an excuse so you can kill things.

Just look at the facts regarding the influence a firearm has over the weak minded....
Mark has 20000 posts, Jesus Christ, what a fricken loser, 5000 of those post are about his infatuating with firearms....
From sharing his love of firearms to constantly defending his need for a firearm
Mark has said many times, he feels he is the last line of defence between Australians eating or starving......
Mark has pushed through Australias high regulations, social criticism, paid a lot of money so he can be armed, again in his words, because he has to kill rabbits or we will starve........
Do you people really believe that?????
SN has firearms because he likes the history of the firearm..........
They have firearms, they get crazy defensive about them, they have jumped through hoops to get them......
Why???????
I have lived at worked all through America
The influence the firearm has had on that society is clear to see, but when you actually get down to ground level and live with yanks where most are armed what do you see.........
You see how the firearm has shut down their communities, the firearm shuts down people thought process
I worked on a Ranch in Texas
everybody walked around the ranch with guns......because they hated their neighbours, and would shoot and threatening each other in some weird gun totting life they had created for themselves......
The fact Mark, SN, and other retards can't honestly articulate the reason for their firearm shows they know they got the firearms out of their fear and paranoia......which highlights exactly why this style of loser should not be armed
Australia must really trust those people.......
And thens there the whole, you gotta sleep with your gun and shove it up arse to really get good with it.....
No, you need about 4hrs a day at a rifle range over a few weeks and whalla, your a great shot......
I've met heaps of armed people in Australia, always losers, always weirdos, the firearm takes over their little mind and little dick, to the point where they simply feel naked without them.......

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sn said..
Most likely not good enough for you Ian, but that doesn't bother me much
You seem to enjoy doing stat. searches, so go for it!

I used to be in contact with a family in Kalispell swapping firearms related info - helping the Father and his mates with accurising old military rifles - Swiss K31, Lee Enfields, Mosins, FR7, FR8 etc, they knew everything about the AR family of firearms - but old military bolt actions were a mystery to them.
Meanwhile, his lovely daughter was teaching me the finer points of lead casting for high velocity bullets.

Also dealt with another family of firearms collectors living near Helena, and another family in Boseman.
Another contact is 2ic of a Georgia county sheriffs department - county is roughly the same population of our Geraldton district.
Another was [is?] FBI firearms and crime statistician.
Common topic of conversation was firearms licensing in our countries, crime rates, gang and drug culture encroaching into "small town" USA.

Common opinion among them all was that gun free zones didn't work, just making it easier for the crims.
Areas that made it easier for those with a clean slate to own small arms tended to have lower numbers of violent crime victims, with correspondingly higher rates of crims leaking vast amounts of bodily fluid. [castle doctrine]

All agreed that mental health checks would be a good idea - but how to apply the checks would be a problem [how do you make a crim get a psych. test done?]

As for psych. testing - fine by me - how about extending the offer to all potential offenders and not just firearm owners?

If firearms protects people from criminals why don't they arm the police?

well loto you carnt just go to gun shop do a test then go shooting. go educate your self.
once you get a licence then you need to apply for a permit to aquire. once that is processed,
you get to wait 28 days while the police do a background check on your ass.
I got my shooting from my father, he shot animals to bring home & eat, plus vermin control. I go &
do the same, pigs, deer, ducks, turkey & vermin under a the property holders permit, dog food.
no one is going to force me to go to colesworth like the simple minded masses. sounds like a few on here.
its got nothing to do with my 9 incher lol.

I just wrote an S.A ,on all this banter, and had to stop.
And delete for once.
Or the second time.??
To keep, the peace .
Cats ,I don't like their owners.
Guns ,I don't like there owners .

But can I have a shot.

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lotofwind said..
Yes you are correct, thank you. Im buying a gun tomorrow so I don't starve, you have convinced me.

It's true, you're on the right track.
Every time the missus refuses to cook, I just have to pull out the gun.
Haven't gone without a meal yet.

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bjw said..
The amount of owners that let out their cats to roam at night shocks me. They kill all many native species.

Dogs dont have this issue.

Very true.
Dogs prefer the toddlers down the local park.

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Rus13b said..
no one is going to force me to go to colesworth like the simple minded masses. sounds like a few on here.
its got nothing to do with my 9 incher lol.

Wow, who is " forcing" you to go to colesworth ? Like all the rest of the simple minded society ? Who are you at war with that guns are the answer for you so "they" cant force you to shop where you want?
The government? Police? or the rest of the mindless mass population?

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lotofwind said..
^^^^^ Long time reader, first time poster, wow,
firing from both barrels.

SN said this BOOM, Mark said that BOOM.

Yeah, from someone who only joined us about a month ago, if you didn't know better you'd think bono was back on deck

lol, yeah don't agree with all of what jamesbrown said, maybe he/she has been reading for a long time and only joined to post cause a nerve was hit???? but was very entertaining to read.

Jeez, jimbo and ian, you both seem to be a bit upset.....maybe you need that trip to the psych for the sort of "level head" test you want me to take

If you want - I could arrange one of the best shrinks around to give you the once over, good friend of ours, known his family since I was a tacker - and had the privilege of teaching him, his wife and son how to shoot

As for your rather dodgy "quote" : "We love guns so we should be able to have whatever we want" or "criminals have guns so we don't really have to prove we are responsible gun owners", would you mind pointing out where I said that?

My belief is :
A fit and proper person, able to satisfy our Police requirements, [and our Police tend to be a bit fussy about the firearms we are permitted to own, and how and where we use those firearms] can have whatever legal firearms are seen as appropriate by our state Police.
Crims however, get it a bit easier as they don't particularly care about laws, regulations or red tape.

I admit - out of curiosity, I would like to have a go with a Bren, an Owen, a Lewis and a Vickers - but as for owning them - no thanks - I couldn't afford to feed them let alone buy them!

Regarding our rifle clubs - we tend to be a damn sight fussier than the Police when it comes to who we let into our ranks - just fronting up and paying membership fees doesn't cut it.
We have been known to refuse membership to already licensed firearm owners, the wrong attitude is enough to be shown the way to the gate.
We have revoked membership when we found the member[s] had not been entirely truthful with their application, leading to us being threatened with legal action [and more].
Our committee President and myself even confiscated the firearms of a club member and delivered them to the Police when we found he was bashing his missus - the mongrel then abandoned his wife and kids and flew back home to Malaysia the same day, so we arranged the sale of all his shooting related gear to help raise funds for the wife and daughters.

So fellas, adjust your attitude! chill out - go for a surf-kite-sail- paddle-beer or whatever you do to cheer yourselves up - because you really sound like your chill pills need the dosage bumped up a bit.

Really SN
More unverifiable grandpa stories. Is that the best you can do.

If you do have mate who is a pro gun psychoanalysis you should organise a session for your mate Mark.
He is the one who make up statistics and when he gets caught out replies with more lies and then goes into a aggressive, abusive, bullying rant. But maybe you should get a session yourself, your need to anthropomorphise your weapons also indicates a deep mental issue not to mention your need to make up places and tell long rambling stories like grandpa Simpson that are unverifiable. Rus13b though is beyond help as the parasites from the Bush meats he eats have eaten a large portion of his brain.

Bellow is a quote from your post on the 14th.
what exactly does that mean if not, crims don't need mental health health checks why should we, but you are obviously aware that self defence is not a legitimate reason for have a firearm in any state in Australia
"All agreed that mental health checks would be a good idea - but how to apply the checks would be a problem [how do you make a crim get a psych. test done?] "

Your desperate attempt to try and paint your self as a good citizen by your stories about your Gun club are pathetic

The only attitudes that need adjusting are those of the Firearm obsessed that think their privilege out weights society's desire for safety and a not Gun Culture like the USA's

once again ian r having no idea. parasites from bush meat, lol.
Not all animals are fit for consumption, you need to know what you are doing
& looking at. health checks with dr each yr for me so no parasites eating
my brain away. I do have better results in some areas due to bush meat
but you will have some story to refute that to.

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IanR said.. The only attitudes that need adjusting are those of the Firearm obsessed that think their privilege out weights society's desire for safety and a not Gun Culture like the USA's

see if you can answer without all the insult and hyperbole Ian;

(1) Do you similarly campaign against overly fast cars, or various combat sports that breed the meat-heads that kill people outside nightclubs, or the ability for people to hold a shot-firer's licence?
All things we allow even though they cause harm. Does society deserve to be protected from hoons, thugs and bombs?


(2) do you things guns are required for agriculture, and if so who should have them?

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Mark _australia said..
(2) do you things guns are required for agriculture, and if so who should have them?

Dunno Mark...

I reckon the middle eastern people didn't have guns when they invented agriculture over 12,000 years ago...some say as long as 23,000 years ago.

Maybe if people with guns didn't bring foxes and wild rabbits into the country for gun sport, some farmers wouldn't need a gun for agriculture....

Yeah but people did, we can't undo that.

And now there is 6bil people.

Plus is not only introduced species, our mass agriculture makes the roo / emu numbers skyrocket also.

True. But it still highlights the fact that guns owners, not farmers caused a large part of the feral animal problem to begin with.

Roos and emus are mostly an issue in remote stations where stock fencing is poor. The majority of farmers are dealing with ferals.

Stop arguing. Perhaps shooting cats with guns makes everyone happy.

Problem solved.

Mark
I believe I have answered your questions already in this thread
Please take SN's advice and go do something that makes you truly happy, then reread this thread.
If after 48 hours you still need me to spell it out for you I will.

No Ian, you don't want to answer that basic question as you know they are a necessary tool.
Then, you do know farmers need others to shoot for them.
Thus, your whole argument that no private citizens should have guns falls down. There is a sliding scale from nobody has them, all the way thru to the USA example that's obviously just a mess.
Australia has the balance about right.
I never said guns for everyone, I never said for self defence. You like to think gun owners here are all NRA-like but 90% are not.

You show that you hate guns on an irrational basis when you talk about competitive club shooters using all the derogatory terms you can think up - do you also treat competitive archers the same? Perhaps fencing?

You did say:
"Pathetic. The fact is you guys want guns for exactly the same reason that the criminals do, the guns make you feel powerful."

No mate - thats the d!ckheads with tuff dogs in their tuff utes all the more dangerous as they can't be controlled like a gun. I guess you campaign so heavily against that as well?

Its OK, you are allowed to hate something with no logic or reasoning. Some people just don't get it and thats you.

Too late for a group hug ?