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lotofwind said.. The world would be safer place for animals and humans if every hero that owns guns handed them in and was given a cat in return.

And you would starve.

^^ Really?? Why??
I have not yet had to go out to my veggie garden and shoot my produce before I eat it. lol.

OK then to clarify - in general terms and considering the whole ecosystem, humans would struggle to exist with no guns, as modern agriculture cannot be sustained without pest control.

No more winks and lols needed now.

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Mark _australia said..
OK then to clarify - in general terms and considering the whole ecosystem, humans would struggle to exist with no guns, as modern agriculture cannot be sustained without pest control.

No more winks and lols needed now.

So we will all die of starvation if we don't have guns?? Where is your source for this?
How did anyone survive before gun powder?
Yes we need pest control, I agree with you, but guns aren't the answer for everything? Electric fencing, noise traps etc have all been proved to be more effective.
The biggest problem facing todays modern agriculture isn't pests or lack of guns, its lack of sustainable water supply/drought.

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Subsonic said..You're trying to paint an evil picture of what domestic cats could mean for native wildlife and connect them to feral cats,

I just realised that this linking of the family cute little pet tiddles - and the eco-unfriendly ferals, is much like the law abiding and legal firearm owners being continually penalised and tarnished for their "link" with the criminal and illegal users of firearms.

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lotofwind said.. So we will all die of starvation if we don't have guns?? Where is your source for this?
How did anyone survive before gun powder?
Yes we need pest control, I agree with you, but guns aren't the answer for everything? Electric fencing, noise traps etc have all been proved to be more effective.
The biggest problem facing todays modern agriculture isn't pests or lack of guns, its lack of sustainable water supply/drought.

Before gun powder the population was 1billion, not 6 billion. Nice argument

Electric fencing, yeah no problems. Who funds the $1mil per farm? They're already bleeding.

Noise traps? Rubbish. gas guns to scare away birds from orchards have to be moved around and changed all the time to mix it up and still has limited success. Have you ever seen a property that is 100km x 200km in size?
You clearly have no experience of distraction devices or massive properties.

No argument about the water but guess what - moving the water to where the crops are makes healthy crops.... and attracts the animals!!! You just proved my point.
Forgetting introduced species - think about just roos. Do you think their numbers were ever anything like they are now, after 200yrs of intensive farming? Of course not..... culling is needed to reduce the numbers that WE caused to increase.
You zap lines and scary noise boxes won't work - if they did then they would be used as anything cheap and effective will be adopted in the name of profits.

At the moment the cheapest and most effective is recreational shooters. Thats why its used.

Reply to sn,
Has been a hell of a lot of deaths/injuries from " legal/law abiding " firearm owners lately.
One was a daughter coming home early from being away at college to surprise her mum. Mum heard a noise down stairs as daughter snuck in to surprise her, mum shot her thinking it was an intruder.

Another just recent, son in-law fly's over to surprise father in-law on his 60th birthday, he comes into house to yell surprise and father-in-law shoots him dead thinking its a robber

Both the shooters were licensed/law abiding owners, problem is there is no training involved?? You have to get way more training these days to get a car license than a gun license??

^^^ its dropped by 10% in 10yrs

www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/10/total_number_of_gun_deaths

keep spewing out the falsehoods. "Been a hell of a lot lately..."

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Mark _australia said..
You clearly have no experience of distraction devices or massive properties.
You zap lines and scary noise boxes won't work - if they did then they would be used as anything cheap and effective will be adopted in the name of profits.
At the moment the cheapest and most effective is recreational shooters. Thats why its used.

lol, how do you know where I have worked
Have actually worked with one of Aust. largest fruit farms which has had great success with "scary noise boxes" as you call them
You just need to change the sound/pitch weekly as the critters get use to it fairly quickly.
It is cheaper than hiring 50 shooters 24/7 to cover a massive area like this and is why they have been using it, like u said it ads to their profits.
But I wont argue with you, I know you are massively pro-gun and wont think outside whats in your scope.

Wow
Fruit farm same as a million acres of wheat n sheep?
No worries expert man.

Its quite clear that shooters work, and we need ALL the things together. You are making it sound like we can get rid of all guns and do just fine - thats clearly not true.

What about rabbits? electric fences that go for kilometres and also underground ? And scary noises?
Calici? Has not worked that well. Also need shooters. Fact.

Yes you are correct, thank you. Im buying a gun tomorrow so I don't starve, you have convinced me.

About time loto, you will be able to go get goats, pigs, deer, rabbit, ducks, turkey.
Actualy you wouldn't have to go to colesworth anymore like the government wonts.
once you have done all the course's & training. the best pork you will ever eat is wild pigs yummo.

The amount of owners that let out their cats to roam at night shocks me. They kill all many native species.

Dogs dont have this issue.

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ its dropped by 10% in 10yrs

www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/10/total_number_of_gun_deaths

keep spewing out the falsehoods. "Been a hell of a lot lately..."

Wow Mark trying to use gunpolicy.org to prove your point
How do you get the figure of a 10% drop in ten years Marks
The death from firearms in Australia in 2006 was 245 and in 2016 it was 238 I would call that insignificant and its been fairly static for 15 years
But look at the drop in deaths Pre Buy Back and NFA to 10 years later when it dropped by over 50% but you feel that the NFA was useless
Also lets never forget who it was that released rabbits and Foxes into the Australian environment in the firsts place Recreational Shooters so they could get their jolly from killing defenceless animals

^^^ sorry typo

10% drop in 20 years.

So shoot me.

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Mr Milk said..

Imax1 said..
I agree , except for the part of an inside cat .
I am an responsible cat owner and he never goes outside .
How could he ever be a problem ?

Isn't that just a little bit cruel to the cat?

My cat is my Avatar, does he look like he could be bothered going outside ?
He gets scared when he accidentally goes outside , he wants in in less than two minutes.
Seriously , he is overly loved and happy .
I want to be him

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japie said..

actiomax said..
I saw a feral cat at least the size of a German Shepard eating some road kill .
Domestic cat wouldn't last a min against that .
It was freaking huge & quite a bit scary I was glad I was in the car .
Made me think of the panther sightings you get out western Sydney in the mountains .

I too saw one in the Dandenongs which was huge. I won't say it was as large as a panther but it was probably three times the size of a domestic cat. Pitch black.

I also seen a few of them , ripping a garbage can open , in winter , in the snow at lake Eucumbene .
I would not stand in there way .
Three times the size , tabby cat colours with extra fizz .

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Crusoe said..
Have a read of this. The post was about native birds being killed. Oh my cats not feral, so this doesn't apply to me. Well, where do you think the feral cats came from.

Oh this can't be true, the kill numbers are too high. I think Australia would be better off without cats.

www.australianwildlife.org/our-work/feral-cat-and-fox-control/

You could just as easily say , Oh my guns don't kill , so this doesn't apply to yet another school shooting . Well where do you think the guns come from .

Oh this can't be true , the kill numbers are too high . I think Australia would be be better off without more guns than people .

Im for responsible cat and gun ownership.

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ sorry typo

10% drop in 20 years.

So shoot me.

Good thing simple maths is not a requirement for a gun licence you would never get one
Maybe it would be easier for you to work out like this.
If you have a 15 rounds in you Glock 19 and you have shoot 6 rounds off what percentage of you clip is left
It's the roughly same percentage as if you had 515 deaths from guns in 1995 and 212 in 2015
I would never shoot you Mark life is preciouses even if like Charlton Heston you Have a cold dead heart

www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUKEwjsoens_JjlAhUc7HMBHdR9CCwQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2F2013%2F3%2F24%2F17716940%2Fcold-dead-hand-with-jim-carrey&usg=AOvVaw0DYrKDA8bI8WNB30F4W1sc

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lotofwind said..
Reply to sn,
Has been a hell of a lot of deaths/injuries from " legal/law abiding " firearm owners lately.
One was a daughter coming home early from being away at college to surprise her mum. Mum heard a noise down stairs as daughter snuck in to surprise her, mum shot her thinking it was an intruder.

Another just recent, son in-law fly's over to surprise father in-law on his 60th birthday, he comes into house to yell surprise and father-in-law shoots him dead thinking its a robber

Both the shooters were licensed/law abiding owners, problem is there is no training involved?? You have to get way more training these days to get a car license than a gun license??

They might have been licensed - but I would suggest they were not law abiding.
Both the Mum and the Father in law were breaking the law before a shot was fired.

I have no idea of the respective locations - but if in QLD, the use of a firearm for defensive purposes is a criminal offence.
Also - how did both of these shooters manage to get their firearms out of the safe, assembled, ammo from the separate safe, loaded and ready to fire so fast?

I would suggest that both must have had their firearms unsecured and ready for use - [another criminal offence], before a shot was fired.

Failing to clearly identify your target before firing, while possibly not a criminal offence, should be one.

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Rus13b said..the best pork you will ever eat is wild pigs yummo.

freeze wild pork for 2 weeks before cooking - it kills any hydatids and a few of the other hard to find nasties.

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Imax1 said..Im for responsible cat and gun ownership.

someone sensible!!!

what on earth are you doing here?

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IanR said..If you have a 15 rounds in you Glock 19 and you have shoot 6 rounds off what percentage of you clip is left

If you are caught with 15 rounds in your glock.....you can expect a 6 month taxpayer funded holiday.

Maximum for legit. civilians is 10 round capacity magazine.

So ian R u think rec shooters released rabbits & foxes for shooting. wow
you don't know a whole lot then do you. there was no recreational hunting
when captain cook got here, it was all for food back then. they didn't have
colesworth.
we do freeze most of it but still through a leg in the camp oven for 3-4hrs,
while out getting some more.

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Rus13b said..
So ian R u think rec shooters released rabbits & foxes for shooting. wow
you don't know a whole lot then do you. there was no recreational hunting
when captain cook got here, it was all for food back then. they didn't have
colesworth.
we do freeze most of it but still through a leg in the camp oven for 3-4hrs,
while out getting some more.

Well foxes certainly were.

Rabbits, both domestic and wild were introduced as a food source. In the case of wild rabbits the intention was there would be a permanent population available for hunting/eating.

so i don't think you can legitimately say he was wrong.

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Rus13b said..
So ian R u think rec shooters released rabbits & foxes for shooting. wow
you don't know a whole lot then do you. there was no recreational hunting
when captain cook got here, it was all for food back then. they didn't have
colesworth.
we do freeze most of it but still through a leg in the camp oven for 3-4hrs,
while out getting some more.

Rus13b

You really should consider education yourself

"The current infestation appears to have originated with the release of 24 wild rabbits[7] by Thomas Austin for hunting purposes in October 1859, on his property, Barwon Park, near Winchelsea, Victoria. While living in England, Austin had been an avid hunter, regularly dedicating his weekends to rabbit shooting. Upon arriving in Australia, which had no native rabbit population, Austin asked his nephew William Austin in England to send him twelve grey rabbits, five hares, seventy-two partridges and some sparrows so he could continue his hobby in Australia by creating a local population of the species. At the time he had stated, "The introduction of a few rabbits could do little harm and might provide a touch of home, in addition to a spot of hunting". William could not source enough grey rabbits to meet his uncle's order, so he topped it up by buying domestic rabbits. One theory as to why the Barwon Park rabbits adapted so well to Australia is that the hybrid rabbits that resulted from the interbreeding of the two distinct types were much more suited to Australian conditions.[9] Many other farms released their rabbits into the wild after Austin."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia

The rabbit that arrived will the first fleet were a completely different type of domestic Rabbits

One problem solved

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IanR said.. Good thing simple maths is not a requirement for a gun licence you would never get one
Maybe it would be easier for you to work out like this.
If you have a 15 rounds in you Glock 19 and you have shoot 6 rounds off what percentage of you clip is left
It's the roughly same percentage as if you had 515 deaths from guns in 1995 and 212 in 2015
I would never shoot you Mark life is preciouses even if like Charlton Heston you Have a cold dead heart

www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUKEwjsoens_JjlAhUc7HMBHdR9CCwQFjACegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2F2013%2F3%2F24%2F17716940%2Fcold-dead-hand-with-jim-carrey&usg=AOvVaw0DYrKDA8bI8WNB30F4W1sc

FFS you are the frothing anti-gunner aren't you

Put your biases aside for a minute and read. Comprehend....


Loto said there has been a lot more gun deaths lately.
I doubt it. So I googled and saw a graph. A graph that your side like, BTW.

It showed y2002 had 289 deaths, and 2016 had 238. Thats about a 15% drop.
y 1999 had 347 so up to 2016 (end of the graph) is like a 25% drop. Mental math here, so forgive me. It was only to counter the assertion that "there has been a lot more lately"

I've never shot anyone and my 6 guns are well secured, but you just hate that fact I have them sooooo bad, that you will write anything to disagree with me! Even after I agreed with your previous post!!!! There's the anti-gunner - disregard facts, its just all emotion. "I don't like 'em so nobody can have 'em... ummm, just because.."


Iceland - double our firearms ownership, and about 15% of the firearms homicide rate.
Why? You need to stop linking simplistic "guns r bad, mmmkaaay" arguments to numbers in order to restrict them. Its just dumb.

Great job of shooting yourself in the foot there Mark (pun intended)
Your angry abusive rant only highlights my believe that people who really want guns are the ones who really should not have them.
I completely comprehend why you referenced the gunpolicy.org graph and honestly believe that Loto made those stories up, to rile you up. If there was a shred of truth in the he would them he would have linked in his sources.The fact that you could not comprehend the graph is all on you though. The fact that you started to randomly pull up dates and figures in your last post to try and prove your point only makes you look more ridiculous.

I do not hate guns as you assert. But I am all for strict gun control. Guns are part of the modern world and they will never be eradicated but society can minimise there effect by good strict gun control.

Your response was all emotion no fact or evidence yet you accuse me of being all emotion but I always back up my assertions with links and evidence

Your comment "You need to stop linking simplistic "guns r bad, mmmkaaay" arguments to numbers in order to restrict them. Its just dumb." then proceed to use very simplistic statistics to say more gun make a safer society is simply moronic. I shows your inability to think things through.

Iceland has some of the strict's gun controls in the world that include medical and psychological test to obtain them thing that I feel Australia could learn from. Somehow I doubt you could obtain a firearms licence in Iceland.

www.icelandreview.com/society/hold-your-fire/

www.icelandreview.com/ask-ir/kind-gun-laws-exist-iceland/

There is also a great article by the BBC that goes into why there is so little violent crime in Iceland that I am struggling to link because I have the BBC app but suggest you google it yourself

The 2 examples I gave were on the news last week, that compiled with every night lately there have been story's on shootings in Melb, Syd, USA, Canada, Gold Coast etc, was why I said "there seems to be a lot of shootings lately", not " there is a lot more shooting now than 20 years ago as Mark said I did ?
I think you are right IanR, there should be medical and psychological tests to obtain a gun license, way tooooooo easy to get one.
I had a look at the online application, bit of a joke, they pretty much tell you what to write to be successful in getting it. It asks what is your reason for wanting one then tells you protection is not a reason then gives you the right reasons, recreational hunting etc. Then you decide yourself that you are mentally stable ???
Then you can go to a gun shop to do a safety course, lol, like they will fail you, and that's it, start shooting.
Pretty scary really, that a nutter like me can get guns so easy


Why do all the gun violence statistic only count the people who died only, and not the 1000's of others being shot but survived ? Like on a lot of the mass shooting rampages where 35 people were shot and 3 died ? They only count the dead, not the others with debilitating injuries and mental issues after ?

Maybe shootings are increasing rapidly, its just that less are dying from their injuries as our medical advancement from 20yrs ago has improved by 30%, or gun nutters these days are not very good shots.