Hi Guys

I am looking to downsize again to around 90 l board (I am 190cm and 95kg). I noticed a variety of lengths available, from short as 5'0 up to about 5'6.

What does the length of the board translate in regards to performance and feel (shorter vs longer)? Also, what it means to get on the foil (short vs long).

Appreciate any advice and thoughts.

The smaller you can make the board, the less weight you need to swing around.

The smaller you make the board, the harder they are to get going in light wind.

The smaller you make the board, the harder it will be to balance on if you knee start.

Yeah, I was thinking that I should be downsizing to improve my winging, however I'm still enjoying my 6'10" SkySUP.

When I thought about it with my analytical mind, I'm riding the board with an Axis PNG 1150 and it's right at the front of the tracks. I've got maybe 14 - 15 inches behind the front of the foil, so in reality I have a 5"6 board in front of the foil with 1'6 behind, so in reality I already have a short board!

From the 5-6 samples we have here, everyone who started on 6'6-7' foil board (with windsurfing or kitesurfing experience) were very self sufficient after 7-8 sessions. Those who started on shorter board...specially shorter than 6'2 were efficient after 20 sessions roughly, at least! Some quit also. I find some sub 6' board with a lot of weight in front(thinking about windfoil board)...they have more swing weight then their peers...even if they are shorter.... to a certain extend.I also feel, that wider board is less reactive then narrower board...could be a placebo effect but this is what I feel....so to me a narrower board reduce swing weight.Where foil is located also affect a lot!

But yes, in general sub 6' is where you want to go next.

Agreed. Not many give enough credence to width. My last 90L (sold now) was 26 inches wide and still tapered significantly towards the nose (which made it feel a smaller board) but the width was a pain. Even though it was only 5'6. It was tiring to ride - especially in waves


At the other extreme my 4'5 34L prone board at only 19 or so inches is hard as hell to start but once up and riding it is effortless to turn. You aren not having to counter act the excessive yaw on a steep turn. Swing weight and being shorter are factors but the width to me is also important


i reckon in the normal litreage boards 22-23 inch would be nice. But hard to do with smaller lengths at higher volumes and of course harder to balance to get started.


I'd rather have a slightly longer board and less width myself with a board that tapers like a surfboard/sup at the front. Hate all that body width near the front.
Put it at the back I say where you need it to start.
the new PPC soar board for example makes sense to me.

Thanks guys for all the great advice ??

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eppo said..
Agreed. Not many give enough credence to width. My last 90L (sold now) was 26 inches wide and still tapered significantly towards the nose (which made it feel a smaller board) but the width was a pain. Even though it was only 5'6. It was tiring to ride - especially in waves


At the other extreme my 4'5 34L prone board at only 19 or so inches is hard as hell to start but once up and riding it is effortless to turn. You aren not having to counter act the excessive yaw on a steep turn. Swing weight and being shorter are factors but the width to me is also important


i reckon in the normal litreage boards 22-23 inch would be nice. But hard to do with smaller lengths at higher volumes and of course harder to balance to get started.


I'd rather have a slightly longer board and less width myself with a board that tapers like a surfboard/sup at the front. Hate all that body width near the front.
Put it at the back I say where you need it to start.
the new PPC soar board for example makes sense to me.

Totally agree.
That's why I love my takuma tk65 @23.5 width and 5.2 length (65L) ...
it works perfectly as a "light wind" board (I am ~72-75kg without gear) ... and still feels nimble due to shape (and 5.1kg board weight).

At 90 kg I just dropped down from a 5-10 custom x 28 x 105L ( 7 kg ) to the 2022 Fanatic TE 5-6 x 27 x 105 L (6.4kg ) . Pretty amazed at the stability of the Fanatic I'm still up hauling on it and amazing float and stability chugging around waiting for a gust. Went for a first run ( lawn mow) yesterday in 8 to 10 knots. I used my Axis 930 HPS & 6m wing as a bit of a test and still managed to get and going which really surprised me ( hard starts though) . The stand out feature was when I was up and foiling and hit a lull the board just pumped so well and easy compared to my 5-10. To me best of both worlds bigger board stability and small board feel. I will eventually get a sinker but very happy with this right now , can't wait to hit the waves & DW over the couple of days.

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Piros said..
At 90 kg I just dropped down from a 5-10 custom x 28 x 105L ( 7 kg ) to the 2022 Fanatic TE 5-6 x 27 x 105 L (6.4kg ) . Pretty amazed at the stability of the Fanatic I'm still up hauling on it and amazing float and stability chugging around waiting for a gust. Went for a first run ( lawn mow) yesterday in 8 to 10 knots. I used my Axis 930 HPS & 6m wing as a bit of a test and still managed to get and going which really surprised me ( hard starts though) . The stand out feature was when I was up and foiling and hit a lull the board just pumped so well and easy compared to my 5-10. To me best of both worlds bigger board stability and small board feel. I will eventually get a sinker but very happy with this right now , can't wait to hit the waves & DW over the couple of days.

Piros, as per other thread, I just got the same 105l x 5ft 6in Fanatic.
Also first session started at 8kn slowly increasing with an Axis 930 HPS and 5.5m Slick wing. I am 76kg so got foiling just a little quicker than your 90kg, I expect.

Best board I've had to date, my legs are 75 yo so needed a bit of volume to get up from knees compared to my previous 95l Fanatic.

My three board evolution (77 kg, 6')

1. (2019) Blue Planet Carver; 114liter/ 5'8"/27"(?)/18.5#/bamboo/standard side&rear bevel

2. (2020) FoilSurfMachine; 90liter/5'1"/26"/12.8#/Innegra/standard rear bevel&reduced side bevel

3. (2021)FoilSurfMachine; 75liter/4'9"/24.5"/12.4#/Innegra/no rear bevel&no side bevel on rear half of board/tapered low volume pointy nose

Current 75 liter board; lightest swing weight and fastest from standing to on-foil via quick planing and release at higher speed with narrow profile "glide" foil, versus pumping up onto foil at lower speed with thicker "pumping" foil

A few litres under your body weight is better than 10 over. 105kg I found the corkiness hard to deal with on a 5 6 @ 112l. Just got a 99l 5 8 with lots of deck concave and it is super stable. Should have got a 5 5

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hilly said..
A few litres under your body weight is better than 10 over. 105kg I found the corkiness hard to deal with on a 5 6 @ 112l. Just got a 99l 5 8 with lots of deck concave and it is super stable. Should have got a 5 5

A foil friend at 110kg rides a 40l board but that's not for me, each person has a requirement that works them.
It is good however to read others achievements.

I agree and so do different conditions dictate your gear usage too.At the North Sea with rasther constant wind i,m very happy with my AK5.8x90l (i,m right now 96 kg and wearing a 5/6mm full hooded winter suit etc).
On the other side: when its in the winter dead onshore or offshore we wing on a lake with lots of big luls and wind gaps.I can assure you: you don,t wanna sink till your belly in the water when it is around zero C when the wind suddenly dies. So just to be able to float back almost without wind I bought a 2022 Fanatic 5.8x 125l.
Yes she is 8kg (2kg more heavy as the AK) and not as nimble, but I can live with that when I see guys with small boards sitting and waiting/hoping for a gust till there balls freeze off.

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Jeroensurf said..
I agree and so do different conditions dictate your gear usage too.At the North Sea with rasther constant wind i,m very happy with my AK5.8x90l (i,m right now 96 kg and wearing a 5/6mm full hooded winter suit etc).
On the other side: when its in the winter dead onshore or offshore we wing on a lake with lots of big luls and wind gaps.I can assure you: you don,t wanna sink till your belly in the water when it is around zero C when the wind suddenly dies. So just to be able to float back almost without wind I bought a 2022 Fanatic 5.8x 125l.
Yes she is 8kg (2kg more heavy as the AK) and not as nimble, but I can live with that when I see guys with small boards sitting and waiting/hoping for a gust till there balls freeze off.

Wow! That's hard core. I feel like such a whimp, putting on 2mm steamer because the wind felt cool and there were a few showers around. 23 deg air and 21 deg water.
In my youth I surfed a bit in Victoria around Easter usually and was always glad to go north after a few weeks.

How much difference does a square tail and boxy rails like the 2022 fanatic make to kneeling stability?

is the 2022 5'6 105L fanatic noticeably more stable than a:
- 105l 5'6 quatro with chines and bevel tail,
-or a 110 L 5'10 naish thats 4 inches longer??

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MHSA said..
How much difference does a square tail and boxy rails like the 2022 fanatic make to kneeling stability?

is the 2022 5'6 105L fanatic noticeably more stable than a:
- 105l 5'6 quatro with chines and bevel tail,
-or a 110 L 5'10 naish thats 4 inches longer??

Hi MHSA
Me 76kg getting on a bit in yrs so knees tire often quickly. To help I need some solid buoyancy to help me get up from kneeling unless plenty of solid gusts.
So what has worked for me, inconjunction with easy early foiling, is a bit of volume, boxy rails and tail and flat rocker for atleast the back half of the board for shortish boards or a longer flat rocker dedicated foil board.
Following is a summary of my board choices over recent times.
Naish 110 and 125. Liked both but with the big bevelled tail standing up in light wind often resulted in a sinking tail and a fall.
Demoed a Fanatic 95l with instant success thick tail made getting up way easier and quick to foil.
Legs now a bit weaker so for light wind bought a 2019 dedicated Naish 7ft 6in x 28in wide dedicated sup foil board, dead flat rocker. Stand up is super easy and the generated sub planning speed made light wind failing easy.

Now for the ultimate, 95l Fanatic has gone to another good home due to the arrival of the 105l TE mint green Fanatic. It is way more buoyant helping me get up from kneeling, it feels as small or smaller than the old 95l and is up foiling quicker. I guess no need to say any more.

The negatives of larger volume shorter boards are in strong wind you will get more resistance into the wind and buffeting due to the larger physical size the board presents to the wind, and the foil feels less connected to your foot due to the thickness of the board.
Everything else is better.

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hilly said..
A few litres under your body weight is better than 10 over. 105kg I found the corkiness hard to deal with on a 5 6 @ 112l. Just got a 99l 5 8 with lots of deck concave and it is super stable. Should have got a 5 5

Hey Hilly, I have a + 5 to 10L main board and a -25L* (only used a few times, gentle introduction to sinker boards). I was considering selling my main floater board and replacing it with a -5 to - 10 as I don't like the extra width on the larger board. I'm sure I'll be ok slogging it and getting starting in light wind. The only time I'm not sure is in significant swell /big confused sea. A few months ago I had a nightmare to get going again as I came off on a wave and there wasn't enough of a lull to get my balance, sort the wing out and get going b4 getting smashed.lol.. maybe the board slightly under water would have helped. Do you think on this scenario the -5L/-10L may help?

*The -25L semi sinker board is very easy to get going in half decent wind but alot of my local breaks are really shallow so I can only use it in limited conditions.

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IanInca said..

hilly said..
A few litres under your body weight is better than 10 over. 105kg I found the corkiness hard to deal with on a 5 6 @ 112l. Just got a 99l 5 8 with lots of deck concave and it is super stable. Should have got a 5 5

Hey Hilly, I have a + 5 to 10L main board and a -25L* (only used a few times, gentle introduction to sinker boards). I was considering selling my main floater board and replacing it with a -5 to - 10 as I don't like the extra width on the larger board. I'm sure I'll be ok slogging it and getting starting in light wind. The only time I'm not sure is in significant swell /big confused sea. A few months ago I had a nightmare to get going again as I came off on a wave and there wasn't enough of a lull to get my balance, sort the wing out and get going b4 getting smashed.lol.. maybe the board slightly under water would have helped. Do you think on this scenario the -5L/-10L may help?

*The -25L semi sinker board is very easy to get going in half decent wind but alot of my local breaks are really shallow so I can only use it in limited conditions.

I believe so but that is my opinion I suggest you demo one to find out if it works for you.

Go as small as you are willing to struggle with. I know that sounds flippant but let me delve deeper

The closer your board is to your weight the corkier and more unstable it will feel. I think +-5l wet weight is worse. The board is sitting right at the water line and depending on the outline and volume distribution this can make it a complete PITA.

Bigger boards are easier as you can just stand on them.
Dropping below your weight by about 20l is a pretty good place. You are no longer starting on your knees but can if you want. You tend to partially sink the board and l find this was more controllable than a board on the surface.
The other often overlooked aspect of riding small boards is the power they need. You either need a bigger wing or a bigger foil depending on the conditions. You also need to be willing to burn a few sessions sitting in the water.
Having said that the boards around -20l don't normally have this handicap as the nose gets out of the water and you can start planning easily. Proper sinkers are a bit different.

just adding my 2c

Just re read the title.
short is best. As long as it still looks like a board not a rectangle.

I tend to agree with rich here. Although I'm extrapolating from a true sinker. I just change up from a 4'5 34L to a 4'10 39l (an extra I inch wide) and the difference is remarkable. I'm finally on the same size wings as crew on their normal boards now. Stink bud and she pops up with ease. Significantly more stable as it's under water but not nearly as deep as the 4'5.

Extrapolating that to say a 55L ish board (I'm 75kg ish) . I just cant see how you couldn't get going in most conditions - apart from losing a few to marginal crappy days.

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eppo said..
I tend to agree with rich here. Although I'm extrapolating from a true sinker. I just change up from a 4'5 34L to a 4'10 39l (an extra I inch wide) and the difference is remarkable. I'm finally on the same size wings as crew on their normal boards now. Stink bud and she pops up with ease. Significantly more stable as it's under water but not nearly as deep as the 4'5.

Extrapolating that to say a 55L ish board (I'm 75kg ish) . I just cant see how you couldn't get going in most conditions - apart from losing a few to marginal crappy days.

Nice to hear its such a big difference between the 34L and 39L eppo. My intuition is also that a 55Lish board would be startable in almost all conditions.

so then a two board quiver could be something 37-39L board for prone and wing in high winds, and 50-55L for wing in anything else?

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RichJam said..Go as small as you are willing to struggle with. I know that sounds flippant but let me delve deeper

Agree with this, but my almost 60-year-old knees do not like lots of struggle.

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eppo said..
I tend to agree with rich here. Although I'm extrapolating from a true sinker. I just change up from a 4'5 34L to a 4'10 39l (an extra I inch wide) and the difference is remarkable. I'm finally on the same size wings as crew on their normal boards now. Stink bud and she pops up with ease. Significantly more stable as it's under water but not nearly as deep as the 4'5.

Extrapolating that to say a 55L ish board (I'm 75kg ish) . I just cant see how you couldn't get going in most conditions - apart from losing a few to marginal crappy days.

interesting indeed.
So would you say that the 4'6'' axis could be right at the sweet spot or do you think a 4'10'' is better due to the length?
How does the difference between the 4.5 and the 4.10 impact your ability to pump?

Depending on weight 410.
I'll go out on a limb and say anything sub 40 is small.
Regarding pumping. You will not be able to tell. My 2 boards are at the moment 48/49l and 49/38l. It will end up as 410/60 when it arrives.

I've managed to demo a few boards now and have now settled with the ensis 4'4 x 22" x 57L

im 80kgs and can get up in 10-12 knots with my 5.2 meter and a 1300cm2 foil using the stink bud style method.
I find it just a playful and maneuverable as my 4'6 prone but way easier to start and also when doing jumps and touch downs the board bounces back up on foil where on my prone it would dive into the water and sink. This is my go to board for any condition now on the wing.

Yeh wicka recon ya bang on there and spot on width. Hate anything wider than 22/23.

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greg87foil said..

eppo said..
I tend to agree with rich here. Although I'm extrapolating from a true sinker. I just change up from a 4'5 34L to a 4'10 39l (an extra I inch wide) and the difference is remarkable. I'm finally on the same size wings as crew on their normal boards now. Stink bud and she pops up with ease. Significantly more stable as it's under water but not nearly as deep as the 4'5.

Extrapolating that to say a 55L ish board (I'm 75kg ish) . I just cant see how you couldn't get going in most conditions - apart from losing a few to marginal crappy days.

Nice to hear its such a big difference between the 34L and 39L eppo. My intuition is also that a 55Lish board would be startable in almost all conditions.

so then a two board quiver could be something 37-39L board for prone and wing in high winds, and 50-55L for wing in anything else?

Yeh but not necessarily high winds. I am starting to put the same wing size up as crew on their barges, but in summer predictable thermals. Winter, etc then the 50-60l board would be fine - but yeh gotta get that stink bud sorted. That's the ticket.

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eppo said..
Yeh wicka recon ya bang on there and spot on width. Hate anything wider than 22/23.

Yeah I couldn't agree more mate!

Any opinions on whether double concave in the rocker (eg Ensis, Sabfoil) helps vs flat for getting off the water?