some solid design insight - and technique with the bigger PWs - from the guy behind the Frigate

I like parawingfoiling in lighter winds with bigger parawings, such as the Frigate 4.7 or the Ozone PR 5m, for a stress-free and easy session. I'm looking to buy the next bigger size of parawing, like the Triple Seven PT.Skin 5.4 or maybe the 7.2. The Frigate 5.5 should be on the market soon.

My session from last weekend in lighter wind on a gusty lake on a Frigate 4'7:

Ive been riding Ozone in smaller sizes- just got a Frigate 4.0 for lighter days. It pulls like a mule, love the feel, stability, low end, upwind angles- length of lines. Only one day on it but I'm finding jibes when underpowered much much more a struggle than w/ my PRs or my 4.2 Ka'a. Some of that Im sure is part of adjusting to a different feel, wing that sits in the window a bit differently. Looking forward to dialing it in, maybe feedback from other Frigate riders?

First time I've really wanted the 1.9m pocket rocket was today. The Gorge cold air east winds have some grunt to them. I put in about 3 hours on the 2.4m but there was definitely some uncomfortable foot switches in there where I just had too much sail.

I have a 4m frigate too and have to agree with my 1-2 months plus PW journey definitely a little tricky in lighter winds on the jibes,good winds pretty automatic success think the trick is on lighter wind jibes is incorporating a downloop in the jibes that's my next move I need to work on
check Czareka video on YT he has em wired Cezary makes look too easy

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Holoholo said..
Ive been riding Ozone in smaller sizes- just got a Frigate 4.0 for lighter days. It pulls like a mule, love the feel, stability, low end, upwind angles- length of lines. Only one day on it but I'm finding jibes when underpowered much much more a struggle than w/ my PRs or my 4.2 Ka'a. Some of that Im sure is part of adjusting to a different feel, wing that sits in the window a bit differently. Looking forward to dialing it in, maybe feedback from other Frigate riders?

Grabbing the back line helps get the 4.2 Dwing around

What conditions are you guys using the 4m frigate in? I'm really close to pulling the trigger but worried that 4m might be a touch small.

Same here, always been a F-One rider since I started Kiteing in 2007 (Bandit 1). When wingfoil came up I started wirh the Strike V1. Again Strike Wings never dissappointed me.

But this time I really struggle with coosing a Para.

It's this Ozone PRocket vs. frigate decision which is driving me mad

Thinking about a 4m Para for conditions from 15-20 kn. I a pretty lightweight (62 Kg)

I have a 4.7m Frigate and also find that it likes to collapse in jibes when underpowered. Had a session the other day where it kept collapsing and then I took my 4.3pr out in same conditions and had no issues. Going to try a few things different next session

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slowmotion160 said..
I have a 4.7m Frigate and also find that it likes to collapse in jibes when underpowered. Had a session the other day where it kept collapsing and then I took my 4.3pr out in same conditions and had no issues. Going to try a few things different next session

Thx, that will probably help. But what would you say is the downside of the PR ? What was your reason to go for frigate 4.7 instead of PR 5...

Two parawings with one stashed in a drybag sling is the dream setup for my ocean upwind/downwinders.
But for those of us who can only afford the one parawing, and are happy to dig in with the harness, there's much more likelihood of it being used occasionally in overpowered conditions, let's say 20-25 knots
How resistant - whether thru canopy weight, batten support, bridle arrangement - it is to bagging-out over a coupla of seasons is a critical consideration in what parawing to buy [and the giant parawing sizes not being a one-wing solution].
The 4.7m Frigate and 5.0m Pocket Rocket seem to be getting a lot of use in that range, and have been out long enough to get an idea of resistance to bagging-out. From clips and forums, the Frigate seems to be pretty resilient. How's the Pocket Rocket 5.0m holding up if used occasionally in 20-25 knots?
Still haven't heard boo about how the 5.5m Frigate handles, maybe it's enjoyable to upwind/downwind on in 20 knots??
Does that tech canopy loading and reinforcement on the 5.4 PT Skin give it durability for stronger winds?

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hilly said..

Grabbing the back line helps get the 4.2 Dwing around

Yeah thx hilly, doing that a bit and it definitely helps. I'm sure just like it went with the Ka'a 4.2 with time / trial and error there's a much more nimble turn in there Im not getting out of it yet.

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pitbulldoug said..
...think the trick is on lighter wind jibes is incorporating a downloop in the jibes...

Have played with down loops on the beach- need to take it to the water. Exactly what the other frigate 4.0 on the water was doing same day I was doing my best not to wear mine.

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ThomasGo said..

slowmotion160 said..
I have a 4.7m Frigate and also find that it likes to collapse in jibes when underpowered. Had a session the other day where it kept collapsing and then I took my 4.3pr out in same conditions and had no issues. Going to try a few things different next session

Thx, that will probably help. But what would you say is the downside of the PR ? What was your reason to go for frigate 4.7 instead of PR 5...

I really like the PR. Great range, nice bar, bigger wind range, easy to just get on and use. The only issues for me are the lines are too long to the 4.3 and up and the line material is way more susceptible to tangling than other pws. I shortened the lines of the 4.3 which I like. Got the Frigate to try something different. Happy with both honestly.

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Holoholo said..

hilly said..

Grabbing the back line helps get the 4.2 Dwing around

Yeah thx hilly, doing that a bit and it definitely helps. I'm sure just like it went with the Ka'a 4.2 with time / trial and error there's a much more nimble turn in there Im not getting out of it yet.

pitbulldoug said..
...think the trick is on lighter wind jibes is incorporating a downloop in the jibes...

Have played with down loops on the beach- need to take it to the water. Exactly what the other frigate 4.0 on the water was doing same day I was doing my best not to wear mine.

Anyone have a video of the downloop on a parawing?

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maxpwr said..
What conditions are you guys using the 4m frigate in? I'm really close to pulling the trigger but worried that 4m might be a touch small.

At 100 kgs + my 4m frigate sweet spot is 18kts-20kts avg can get going in less with DW board and big foil wing and kinda maxes out 22-24 kts G27/28 kts max need a 3.5 too be nice,but at my wt hooked in I can push it but definitely bit much

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BWalnut said..
First time I've really wanted the 1.9m pocket rocket was today. The Gorge cold air east winds have some grunt to them. I put in about 3 hours on the 2.4m but there was definitely some uncomfortable foot switches in there where I just had too much sail.

copped a 1st gen maliko 1.8m (modded) for chips back in early summer. bellingham got its first major storms of the fall last week, 35g50 smoke on the water. hilarious how easy the douse/packdown is

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ilboarder12 said..

BWalnut said..
First time I've really wanted the 1.9m pocket rocket was today. The Gorge cold air east winds have some grunt to them. I put in about 3 hours on the 2.4m but there was definitely some uncomfortable foot switches in there where I just had too much sail.

copped a 1st gen maliko 1.8m (modded) for chips back in early summer. bellingham got its first major storms of the fall last week, 35g50 smoke on the water. hilarious how easy the douse/packdown is

I now consider the 3m to be "huge" and any wind that isn't 2.4m pocket rocket to be "light"

We have a few days coming up where I will be intrigued to see if it's survival misery on the 2.4m or if I can have fun with it. Willing to pull the trigger on the 1.9m if necessary, just didn't expect to need it until the spring.

fantastic deep dive into parawing design with the guy behind the 777 wings

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flowstate said..
fantastic deep dive into parawing design with the guy behind the 777 wings

would love to spend a day on the water with the 5.6m PT UDW after listening to this design backstory

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BWalnut said..

ilboarder12 said..

BWalnut said..
First time I've really wanted the 1.9m pocket rocket was today. The Gorge cold air east winds have some grunt to them. I put in about 3 hours on the 2.4m but there was definitely some uncomfortable foot switches in there where I just had too much sail.

copped a 1st gen maliko 1.8m (modded) for chips back in early summer. bellingham got its first major storms of the fall last week, 35g50 smoke on the water. hilarious how easy the douse/packdown is

I now consider the 3m to be "huge" and any wind that isn't 2.4m pocket rocket to be "light"

We have a few days coming up where I will be intrigued to see if it's survival misery on the 2.4m or if I can have fun with it. Willing to pull the trigger on the 1.9m if necessary, just didn't expect to need it until the spring.

I now consider the 5.5m Dwing to be normal which is great because now anything else feels like folding a cocktail napkin.
We are just about to get into our stronger wind season here in WA so that should change soon.

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flowstate said..

flowstate said..
fantastic deep dive into parawing design with the guy behind the 777 wings

would love to spend a day on the water with the 5.6m PT UDW after listening to this design backstory

Yeah I am really thinking about pulling the trigger on a 5.4m PT skin but also wondering what the UDW will be like. 5.5m has become my most used size. I am really enjoying lower winds around 15 knots a lot more than I thought I would.

5.6 metre 777 UDW incl freight to Australia A$1420
5.5 metre Frigate from Australian dealer in stock A$1869
is the F-one worth extra A$450 ???
I'm excited by 777's light wind innovation, but the 5.5 Frigate design's also been tuned since the smaller sizes were released, and it's F-one, big company rep...
Is the Frigate going to be more durable as a daily driver than the 777?

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flowstate said..
5.6 metre 777 UDW incl freight to Australia A$1420
5.5 metre Frigate from Australian dealer in stock A$1869
is the F-one worth extra A$450 ???
I'm excited by 777's light wind innovation, but the 5.5 Frigate design's also been tuned since the smaller sizes were released, and it's F-one, big company rep...
Is the Frigate going to be more durable as a daily driver than the 777?

I have the 4.7 frigate. Well made and gets up in pretty light wind. I would think the 5.5 would have a great low end but would be a bitch to pack down.

Just got the 5.4 PT skin, only flew it for a minute in my mates front yard. Feels nice and responsive, will pack down easily, feels about the same as the 4.2m Dwing in the pack down. Of course can't say till Ive actually done it riding. Went in with a mate who was buying 3m and 4m PT skins so we got a bit of a discount. Ended up being about $700 cheaper than the 5.5 frigate price mentioned above

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Youngbreezy said..
Just got the 5.4 PT skin, only flew it for a minute in my mates front yard. Feels nice and responsive, will pack down easily, feels about the same as the 4.2m Dwing in the pack down. Of course can't say till Ive actually done it riding. Went in with a mate who was buying 3m and 4m PT skins so we got a bit of a discount. Ended up being about $700 cheaper than the 5.5 frigate price mentioned above

please give us a review of the 5.5 frigate as there is nothing out there like to hear more about being at 100kgs gonna need a bigger PW than my 4m frigate sometimes,on the fence with the new 5.5 frigate or the 777 5.4, bit concerned about the weight of a bigger frigate for packing down as I my 4m frigate is certainly not what Id call light like a brm,that said really like my 4m frig

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pitbulldoug said..

Youngbreezy said..
Just got the 5.4 PT skin, only flew it for a minute in my mates front yard. Feels nice and responsive, will pack down easily, feels about the same as the 4.2m Dwing in the pack down. Of course can't say till Ive actually done it riding. Went in with a mate who was buying 3m and 4m PT skins so we got a bit of a discount. Ended up being about $700 cheaper than the 5.5 frigate price mentioned above

please give us a review of the 5.5 frigate as there is nothing out there like to hear more about being at 100kgs gonna need a bigger PW than my 4m frigate sometimes,on the fence with the new 5.5 frigate or the 777 5.4, bit concerned about the weight of a bigger frigate for packing down as I my 4m frigate is certainly not what Id call light like a brm,that said really like my 4m frig

I have ridden the 4m Frigate and own a 4.7m Frigate. @93kg plus wetsuit etc. I find the 4.7 has lots more power than the 4m. The 5.5 will be huge and hard to pack down as I struggle with the 4.7m. No interest in going bigger.

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hilly said..

flowstate said..
5.6 metre 777 UDW incl freight to Australia A$1420
5.5 metre Frigate from Australian dealer in stock A$1869
is the F-one worth extra A$450 ???
I'm excited by 777's light wind innovation, but the 5.5 Frigate design's also been tuned since the smaller sizes were released, and it's F-one, big company rep...
Is the Frigate going to be more durable as a daily driver than the 777?

I have the 4.7 frigate. Well made and gets up in pretty light wind. I would think the 5.5 would have a great low end but would be a bitch to pack down.

....and BOOM! Ozone release a lower aspect short line PW with nice V2 tweaks.
And in 5m size, pretty sweet spot for daily driver, those of us who dont live in W.A. or Maui. 5.0 and 3.6 quiver would cover the bases nicely.
wonder how long the wait's gonna be for Oz stock

Pretty excited about these Power Packs. My first reaction was no, but thinking on it for a bit I'm shifting. The larger sizes, as long as the upwind is at least reasonable, could be awesome for point sailing.

I got my first session on the 5.4 pt skin the other day. Very happy with it overall. The things I liked about the 3m have transferred well into the 5.4m.
Wind was a bit gusty up as high as 20knots down as low as 15knots. I was on 6'6"x19.5x100L mid length Axis 1180 spitfire, 105kg rider.
It was super easy to get going and had plenty of power overall. I was quite lit up in the stronger gusts but not uncomfortably overpowered. Had some lighter wind get ups as well and was still easy to get going. The pt skins feel responsive and lively, kinda like a kitesurfing kite, they fly much nicer overall than the Dwings. The Yoke/ bridal allows them a good range of movement through the wind window. They can sit forward with good upwind and plenty of depower. They can also sit really far back in the window with good downwind grunt and a good angle for bump assist. The lighter material definitely helps them fly better in the low end and downwind bump assist get ups. The PT skins go upwind quite well, about the same as the Dwings, maybe not as good as a pocket rocket but still quite good. Both the 3m and 5.4 can hold a good solid leading edge. I have had my 3m in around 35 knots and 5.4m in 20 knots with a heavy rider hanging off them and they hold a good clean leading edge with very little flutter.
I don't usually do a full stow when I'm just doing upwind downwind runs. I just wad the wing up neatly in my back hand, almost as good as a stow. The 5.4 pt skin is nice to pack up. A bit easier than the 5.5 Dwing, about the same as the 4.2 Dwing. With the light material it bundles up into a small package. Redeploy is also pretty good, the yoke bridal set up helps to stop the lines wrapping on the bar a bit. Overall packing up and redeploying with the 5.4 is good definitely quite manageable but then I'm already used to packing the 5.5 Dwing which I think most people would consider a handful. I'm also fairly tall at 6'3" which I think rider height and arm length plays a factor in how well you can pack up a wing.



Pretty stoked with my pt skins overall. I think the 5.4 will be my daily driver. I have found myself reaching for the bigger size pwing, choosing a size at the top end of its range over a size at the bottom end of the range. Also the 5.4 pt skin feels about the same to pack as the 4.2 dwing so now there's even less reason to reach for that size.

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BWalnut said..
Pretty excited about these Power Packs. My first reaction was no, but thinking on it for a bit I'm shifting. The larger sizes, as long as the upwind is at least reasonable, could be awesome for point sailing.

I was told by someone riding the powerpacks that the upwind is only "passable". Seems like if upwind is important then the PR is still the tool. My sense is that it is pretty comparable to the Ka'a in terms of the intended use case. I think there was a moratorium on public reviews until next week, so it will be interesting to hear some more in depth feedback.