4.5M BRM Pai'a feedback.

Ok, so second session in the bumps with the 4.5M Paia with a 2.4Knt ebb running around a corner into 20-28 mph and it was absolutely amazing. No drama getting on foil (55L 880 foil at 67kgs plus gear). Super easy. Started on a 4M Kanaha, then 4.5 Paia, then 3.2 Kanaha then back to the 4.5 paia. The amount of ground gained upwind and the ease of that gain was very noticeable. Just way more chill and efficient.

I blasted up wind for 11 minutes and earned a mile long six minute blissful DW run in groomed, yet dynamic shoulder high swell. It's nice to get a taste of the gorge over here on the East Coast Of the US. The Chesapeake Bay is definitely holding.

I was able to stow the wing in the ozone belt pretty well, although it wasn't Velcro'd shut most of the time. I repeated the same run four times and left with a huge grin. In conditions like this, you can just feel your skill leveling up. Personal bests for me DW distance wise and turn wise, As I don't do shuttle runs and the single skins typically have me going half the distance upwind.

I'm definitely a convert to the Pai'a After today's session. It definitely has a place in my quiver. If anyone's on the fence about buying one, do it, Especially if you can find one used And you have condition conditions that make it worthwhile.

One main drawback is if you get it wet and then go to Stow it shortly thereafter, it can feel like you have a load in your pants. Best to keep it dry!

Here's tracks for two of the runs. I don't switch stances.

My experience on the 4.5m paia (only 3 sessions so far, and unfortunately the season is about over here) is similar. When it's good, it's GREAT. Over 20 knots and it's a dream to ride because it absolutely slices upwind. In the sweet spot at ~22-27 knots it's a real weapon. I was easily dusting folks on single skin BRMs and Ozones and others on inflatables on upwind legs. I inadvertently caused a guy on an inflatable to crash because I surprised him so much cutting upwind in front of him (sorry!). Stowing is obviously way more of a bear compared to 2.9m maliko v1 I'd be riding in those conditions but I didn't find it to be too much of a downside to detract from the upside. Bar pressure is good and much lighter than a single skin. I rode my first session in 24-29knots with no harness and it was doable for about an hour before I got fatigued. I chalk the fatigue up to being out of shape from only riding single skins with harness lines all season and not touching my inflatables at all. With more consistent sessions I'm confident I could build back that grip strength.

The MAJOR issue with the paia is that is it completely gutless on the low-end, and the falloff is incredibly abrupt. 18-20 knots is very marginal for me. The wing becomes pretty technical to fly and gybe and punishes you for small mistakes. This can be fixed with more skill. However, below 18 knots, it completely gives up and has no power at all. With a lot of work you can limp back to shore without dropping the wing into the water, but getting back on foil is not going to happen.

I am going to keep mine, but it's definitely not a full season daily driver for me. I won't be giving up my single skins and will probably still end up upgrading my 2.9m BRM v1 to a v2 next season. I have no interest in getting the next size up paia because the 4.5m is already more fabric than I really care to deal with.

I had another great Paia day that started with the 3.1M and 4.5 in a waterproof backpack. Wind was in the 20-30 knt range and gusty. The 3.1 was surprisingly easy to get on foil, but the wind was honking. Swell was definitely up and a few relaunches with my semi sinker were challenging but totally doable with the help of the swell. Later on I swapped to the 4.5 when the wind dropped just outside the 3.1 range. It was game on again from there.

I really like this combo for sessions when I look upwind and see whitecaps for days. Gets me upwind quick and I ha a fallback in case the wind drops below the 3.1s range. For reference my buddy was winging a 3.5M and he said he was overpowered at times going upwind, but he was crushing it from my perspective.


I'm getting really efficient at getting back on foil after losing lift or a fall. Detangling a hasty stash isn't as bothersome as it used to be. A few moments to relax after a leg burning adrenaline spiked ride is not a bad thing!


My GPS said my fastest speed of the session was during a depower/pack up bombing into a set. Thankfully my muscle memory for the pack down has taken over, so I didn't yardage into oblivion.


Only con was both sizes had one moment where they half depowered and re-engaged rather violently in the gusty conditions. Harness line was engaged and really helped save my shoulders. I'm not sure what caused it, may have been during a gybe and my wind shadow caused the turbulence.

I grabbed the 6.1m and it has the same basic range as my 4.2m Flow for my weight (110kg). I am getting up around 17/18knots and once up, can ride lower wind speeds. My comfortable range is 17 to 25 knots. I have now ridden about 100km.

I have found bearing slighly downwind makes it pretty easy to get good forward speed allowing a popup. I bounce the board for both forward speed and relesse

The handle is tiny in both diameter and length, but I had no issues riding one handed or two handed.

Gybing is super easy (the best I have experienced).

The paia handles gusts really well and is controllable in bigger overpowered gusts.

I am thinking I might be able to get away with the 6.1m and a future 4.2m.

Anyone out there still frothing on the Paia and able to compare it to any of the other new wings on the market? I'm getting my hands on a 3.1m for the spring and am looking to use it when it's 35-45 knots. Any intro to Paia tips the seasoned paia riders want to share?

Just had a great 3.1M session last week. A neighbor happened to see me heading out on the river and snapped this photo:




The wind was about as strong as I've been out in and it went from no whitecaps to thigh high waves in a matter of minutes (6-10km fetch). The Paia was epic. I was able to collapse and ride swell and relaunch pretty easy. If it doesn't get air in it, it can get a bit scary as it can get caught by the wind, but I didn't have any major issues. Worse case would be a partial tangle and a spiral loop.


it's insane how well it holds its shape and sheds gusts.

I've only got the 4.5m Paia so I can't offer anything for the really strong stuff but I can say the top end is pretty amazing. No problem holding down 28 knots or so. Gusts are so comfortable but I have to say at the low end especially, variations in wind direction are tricky as the wing tips are very prone to folding in. Until you have some apparent wind I find it best not to lower one wing tip too much or with any slight change in wind direction you might get a fold. From
my time riding, it excels so much in solid wind. Due to their size making them tricky to pack away i
tending to think these suit super windy days and the 3.1 sounds like so much fun. Looking forward to hearing from you BWalnut.

Glad to hear there's still love out there for this model.

MidAtlanticFoil that's a great shot and session report. Looks like smoke on the water with that windspeed. When you say it can be a bit scary, do you just mean it gets shock loaded when the wind grabs it or is there something else you can give me a heads up on about it?

Thanks for the tips Sheps. I'm very intrigued to see if on the extreme wind end of things this is the right call. It's funny to think that if I can't hold on to my 3m Pocket Rocket any longer I should upsize to the 3.1 Paia but I'm just telling myself its a different tool. I likely wont have any real experience on it until April/May but if I can score a few winter sessions I'll be sure to check back in with you all to share my experiences on it.

BWalnut you should get down to lake Mohave as it gets real windy there and 8-10 wingers out most windy days and most guys own 2m wings

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BWalnut said..
Glad to hear there's still love out there for this model.

MidAtlanticFoil that's a great shot and session report. Looks like smoke on the water with that windspeed. When you say it can be a bit scary, do you just mean it gets shock loaded when the wind grabs it or is there something else you can give me a heads up on about it?

Thanks for the tips Sheps. I'm very intrigued to see if on the extreme wind end of things this is the right call. It's funny to think that if I can't hold on to my 3m Pocket Rocket any longer I should upsize to the 3.1 Paia but I'm just telling myself its a different tool. I likely wont have any real experience on it until April/May but if I can score a few winter sessions I'll be sure to check back in with you all to share my experiences on it.

Regarding the scary bits, I was just kinda worried about the double skin suddenly acting like a single skin. It never really did, but I guess I got out of a few somewhat hairy situations on gybes where I relied too much on the A Lines, when I should have put it back/down in the window a bit more during the transition. I had one time where it was upside down under my board after a gybe, but I got it right-side up somehow. Just the transition from 'oh this isn't flying right' to 'Ok I'm good' can be a bit unnerving in 30-40knts. . When its good it is just so comfortable that anything but that feeling kinda snaps you out of it and makes you hyper aware.

I feel like I've had the 4.5M flap on my a few times when overpowered and it gave me a good tug on the arm, but I think that was due to a bit of a tangle on a redeploy, like one outer B or C line over the bar. Usually fix it on the fly after turning downwind a bit.

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BWalnut said..

Thanks for the tips Sheps. I'm very intrigued to see if on the extreme wind end of things this is the right call. It's funny to think that if I can't hold on to my 3m Pocket Rocket any longer I should upsize to the 3.1 Paia but I'm just telling myself its a different tool. I likely wont have any real experience on it until April/May but if I can score a few winter sessions I'll be sure to check back in with you all to share my experiences on it.

I get over-powered on a 5.5 flow and will then pull out the 6.1 Paia (it handles big winds really well).

So what is the consensus on the Paia?

Does it work well in gusty winds or more suited to steady wind.
My spot can be 10- 25knts and my 4.3 pocket rocket is very challenging.

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rgmacca said..
So what is the consensus on the Paia?

Does it work well in gusty winds or more suited to steady wind.
My spot can be 10- 25knts and my 4.3 pocket rocket is very challenging.

I would expect anything to be challenging with that much variability except a wing.

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rgmacca said..
So what is the consensus on the Paia?

Does it work well in gusty winds or more suited to steady wind.
My spot can be 10- 25knts and my 4.3 pocket rocket is very challenging.

I think it partly depends on what type of gusty winds you are in. I find that near the bottom end of it's range, in the same way that a parawing takes a longer lasting gust to get on foil vs an inflatable wing, the Paia takes longer than a single skin wing. So if you have short punchy gusts, you might be frustrated on the Paia. But if you get longer sustained gusts with lulls in between you might be happy since the top end does feel pretty much unlimited. I have a 4.5 and it starts around 20-22kt for me and gets good at 25. I think the windiest I've been on it so far is 30kt gusts, but never felt overpowered. For me it goes upwind the same or maybe just a little better than my 4.2 Flow in 20-25 but it's a lot less work on long upwind legs.

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Beans said..
BWalnut you should get down to lake Mohave as it gets real windy there and 8-10 wingers out most windy days and most guys own 2m wings

Do people stay in Lost Wages and then travel to the lake on windy days? Sounds like a wild adventure. I love the climbing there in Red Rocks.

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JonahL said.. I think it partly depends on what type of gusty winds you are in.

I'll be testing this:



High winds here are never steady. They are always gusty and conditions like this are brutal to ride effectively in. I can have a blast in this with a 2m Strike v3 (no low end, unlimited top end) but I'm yet to really lock in to these winds with the right parawing. I'm hoping this is where the Paia can shine.

For future comparison, this is one of my stronger days on the 2.4m Pocket Rocket where it wasn't full survival mode, gusting to 43 knots:


The angles aren't bad but my lap times are always weak on the 2.4m. 10 minutes down, 15 minutes up is common on most of my laps. That, and the fact that I do have to be hyper aware of what's going on gets a bit tiring mentally. My hope is that the Paia will be faster upwind and calmer.

An unknown variable is how much slower am I going upwind because the swell is so much steeper and breaking on days like this vs going fast upwind in calmer waters.

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For me it goes upwind the same or maybe just a little better than my 4.2 Flow in 20-25 but it's a lot less work on long upwind legs.

You would definitely have longer arms after using a 4.2m flow in 25 knots.

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bigtone667 said..

For me it goes upwind the same or maybe just a little better than my 4.2 Flow in 20-25 but it's a lot less work on long upwind legs.

You would definitely have longer arms after using a 4.2m flow in 25 knots.

It's work for sure, but I've modded the bridle a bit and I think I get a little better performance and top end out of it vs stock.

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JonahL said..

bigtone667 said..

For me it goes upwind the same or maybe just a little better than my 4.2 Flow in 20-25 but it's a lot less work on long upwind legs.

You would definitely have longer arms after using a 4.2m flow in 25 knots.

It's work for sure, but I've modded the bridle a bit and I think I get a little better performance and top end out of it vs stock.

Nice. I have the 8 line original, absolute cracker.

From extensive experience with foil kites I'm quite sceptical about a double skin as an option for high gusty wind. They might have good depower, but are often sensitive to gusty wind. I'm much more optimistic about the hybrid models that are coming out, as they eat gusts like nothing else. I'm often out foiling with hybrid foil kites in 30-40 knots and have an amazing time, while my friends complain it was terrible because of the gusts, which I haven't even noticed. There will be a hybrid parawing soon from 777 that should come in 3.2m and 2.5m sizes.

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Jve said..
From extensive experience with foil kites I'm quite sceptical about a double skin as an option for high gusty wind. They might have good depower, but are often sensitive to gusty wind. I'm much more optimistic about the hybrid models that are coming out, as they eat gusts like nothing else. I'm often out foiling with hybrid foil kites in 30-40 knots and have an amazing time, while my friends complain it was terrible because of the gusts, which I haven't even noticed. There will be a hybrid parawing soon from 777 that should come in 3.2m and 2.5m sizes.

Paia is great in gusts at the upper end. You can see the gusts coming and you get a marginal increase in pull, without any fuss from the flight, just rock solid.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..

Jve said..
From extensive experience with foil kites I'm quite sceptical about a double skin as an option for high gusty wind. They might have good depower, but are often sensitive to gusty wind. I'm much more optimistic about the hybrid models that are coming out, as they eat gusts like nothing else. I'm often out foiling with hybrid foil kites in 30-40 knots and have an amazing time, while my friends complain it was terrible because of the gusts, which I haven't even noticed. There will be a hybrid parawing soon from 777 that should come in 3.2m and 2.5m sizes.

Paia is great in gusts at the upper end. You can see the gusts coming and you get a marginal increase in pull, without any fuss from the flight, just rock solid.

Apart from going upwind at such incredible angle I'd say handling gusts is the most positive attribute of the double skin. Only, if the wind drops suddenly or changes direction significantly and fast due to wind obstruction or the like, the Paia can do some erratic stuff and due to its slow moving characteristics hard if not impossible to recover from in my experience so far. Making me a better sailor for sure though and overall I'm hooked.

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BWalnut said..

Beans said..
BWalnut you should get down to lake Mohave as it gets real windy there and 8-10 wingers out most windy days and most guys own 2m wings

Do people stay in Lost Wages and then travel to the lake on windy days? Sounds like a wild adventure. I love the climbing there in Red Rocks.

JonahL said.. I think it partly depends on what type of gusty winds you are in.

I'll be testing this:



High winds here are never steady. They are always gusty and conditions like this are brutal to ride effectively in. I can have a blast in this with a 2m Strike v3 (no low end, unlimited top end) but I'm yet to really lock in to these winds with the right parawing. I'm hoping this is where the Paia can shine.

For future comparison, this is one of my stronger days on the 2.4m Pocket Rocket where it wasn't full survival mode, gusting to 43 knots:


The angles aren't bad but my lap times are always weak on the 2.4m. 10 minutes down, 15 minutes up is common on most of my laps. That, and the fact that I do have to be hyper aware of what's going on gets a bit tiring mentally. My hope is that the Paia will be faster upwind and calmer.

An unknown variable is how much slower am I going upwind because the swell is so much steeper and breaking on days like this vs going fast upwind in calmer waters.

How goes the search for a tiny wang for smokeonthewater days B?

I've got a 3.1m Paia to try but I haven't gotten in the water with it yet. With water temps around 40f or 4.4c I don't like falling in without gloves on. We've had the wind though...


Playing with the Paia on the beach it's clear that it's different than a single skin and I don't want to go out in cold east wind conditions as my intro to that sail. So, I've just been using my old 2m hand wing to scratch the itch on windy days (strike v3 with infinite holes in the canopy).

After parawinging so much the 2nd half of 2025 getting back on a hand wing is wild. The power is so different and the ability to instantly go to true 100% depower is dreamy vs the parawing. You just have to reset your swell riding brain to remember that you have a dance partner to work with now.

March is when we start to get west winds again and that's when the Paia will get a shot. Also trying to get a demo on the 1.9m Hatch and by then the new Pocket Rocket will be releasing so there will be plenty of options to choose from and I'll definitely be excited to get it sorted out.

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BWalnut said..
I've got a 3.1m Paia to try but I haven't gotten in the water with it yet. With water temps around 40f or 4.4c I don't like falling in without gloves on. We've had the wind though...


Playing with the Paia on the beach it's clear that it's different than a single skin and I don't want to go out in cold east wind conditions as my intro to that sail. So, I've just been using my old 2m hand wing to scratch the itch on windy days (strike v3 with infinite holes in the canopy).

After parawinging so much the 2nd half of 2025 getting back on a hand wing is wild. The power is so different and the ability to instantly go to true 100% depower is dreamy vs the parawing. You just have to reset your swell riding brain to remember that you have a dance partner to work with now.

March is when we start to get west winds again and that's when the Paia will get a shot. Also trying to get a demo on the 1.9m Hatch and by then the new Pocket Rocket will be releasing so there will be plenty of options to choose from and I'll definitely be excited to get it sorted out.

cool!
yep, so good to mix it up occ with inflatable wing eh.
I cant imagine what that windchill is sittin on yr board in 50 knots 4 degree water and air. Ocean here's cooled with monsoon crap weather, down to 29.3C on the sounder yesty ;)
really lookin frwd to v2 Pocket rocket too. Powerpack-ish line config with a canopy for fanging upwind, shld make for some fun sailin!