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emmafoils said..

foilthegreats said..
In my experience the higher the aspect ratio the less surface area you need to make the foil work.

Depends on what you mean by "making the foil work" and your power source to lift the foil. I get that everyone is super excited about a new foil and direction for Armstrong but facts are stubborn things.

Despite people's individual reports, the fact remains that higher AR (for a given SA) means higher stall speed. May not matter if you have a wave pushing you but for winging, going up on AR requires more wind/wing (for a given SA) to achieve lift off.

For those who like to repeat the canard that SA does not matter for high aspect foils, sorry but the laws of physics have not been canceled.

We talk about and compare the AXIS 1300 (HA) and 1020 (MA) all the time. 1300 is 1700cm2 and the 1020 is 2000cm2.

The main time we big guys stall a foil is pumping at the initial takeoff (we pump too hard) or super slow speeds during turns. Now the 1020 almost never stalls and the 1300 only rarely. Both of these wings are over 1700cm2 but the chord on the 1020 is huge making it really hard to collapse on water.

Now for lift off, they almost start at the same speed (the 1020 is quite thick and draggy).

But we suspect once you get foils above a certain size (cm2), the medium of water treats them in a similar fashion at low speeds.

This looks like the new 1125HA.

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baldy123 said..
This looks like the new 1125HA.

It lacks the compound anhedral shown in the leaked images, so this may be an earlier prototype

Could be the 1550v2

More here

fb.watch/4fZQSeKeTn/

Looks like this one breach fine , won't need to chop the tips off.
When are you getting yours Hilly ?? better hurry before Piros

Oh man...!I'm totally up for this setup!!

Can anyone shed light on the A+ system & it's compatibility to the current fuselage/overall system ...?

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kobo said..When are you getting yours Hilly ?? better hurry before Piros

Yeh nah not my cup of tea

www.armstrongfoils.com/ha1125-foil-wing/

OK.
So...anyone want to take a guess at what minimum wind speed to get on foil using a wing would be for this HA foil...?

For the AVERAGE winger - not u super skilled freaks out there who weigh 110kg & can pump onto foil in 5 kts...

How fast do you think the ha1125 will be able to go, considering upgrading from the axis 1000 or do you think the hs1250 would be a better route to go?. Got a real need for speed while using the wing.

56:30 mark of this interview with Rob Whittall for a very accurate remark about us foilers, followed by discussion regarding the 1125.
(should link to the 56:30 mark)
I find it interesting that Whittall said the 1125 is perfect for flat water. I wonder if he is comparing flat directly to wave riding, skipping over choppy wind blown conditions. I hope it's the case, because that is what I ride a lot. He says it is difficult to ride in waves but doable with mastery of the wing. If max planning speed is required, I could see why choppy conditions would be difficult.

Speed wise he says it's like an 850 with the glide (better than) of the 1850. Pretty wild! Says it lacks low end grunt, but once up the glide is the ride.

Great interview though and I recommend listening (podcast) or watching the whole thing!

I'd say he means the wing is more suited to non wave riding, compared to the other lower aspect wings available. So choppy water would still be fine as long as of course your mast height is adequate. Yeh interesting interview. The fact that they could run the wing dimensions through the computers / software used to design the America cup boats and foils, with educated eyes going over it is interesting.
Hey ... so I know this has been covered in vids above but for a quick answer... what exactly would you have to do to the older fuse to fit that wing on. I presume at least one more hole at the top using the jig ?

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eppo said..what exactly would you have to do to the older fuse to fit that wing on. I presume at least one more hole at the top using the jig ?

Nothing - fits straight on. If you want more stiffness drill the hole. Unless you are jumping I cannot see the point. The 2400 would put way more stress on the fuse.

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hilly said..

eppo said..what exactly would you have to do to the older fuse to fit that wing on. I presume at least one more hole at the top using the jig ?

Nothing - fits straight on. If you want more stiffness drill the hole. Unless you are jumping I cannot see the point. The 2400 would put way more stress on the fuse.

Well the 1125 is allowing speeds up above 20mph while the 2400 is just putting along. The added speed and upwind angles may put more stress on the mast with 1125 than 2400. But it's probably a wash.
I ended up ordering the new fuse, mainly because it is on sale and the jig kit costs some coin on its own. Hoping I can sell my standard fuse to recoup some of the cost. (Dm me if u are in the states and looking for a 60 )

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eppo said..
I'd say he means the wing is more suited to non wave riding, compared to the other lower aspect wings available. So choppy water would still be fine as long as of course your mast height is adequate. Yeh interesting interview. The fact that they could run the wing dimensions through the computers / software used to design the America cup boats and foils, with educated eyes going over it is interesting.
Hey ... so I know this has been covered in vids above but for a quick answer... what exactly would you have to do to the older fuse to fit that wing on. I presume at least one more hole at the top using the jig ?

Great interview ,Ive been a hangliding/paraglider pilot since the 80s and relate to his comments about him feeling more comfortable in the air and Armie more in the water.Must admit I prefer the water these days as mistakes in the air are usually more costly. Rob is a crazy good airwing designer , I bought some of his first paragliders in the 90s and his Ozone kitesurf designs are top shelf too. I like the fact he and Armie are not engineers or mathematicians and design foils based on instinct and experience.
I wonder if all the America's cup computers and software could make any difference to what they came up with or like he said just explain what they've already done.

I'm going to bang it straight on my standard fuselage and see how it goes I won't be jumping but will be loading it up so I'm quite interested to see how it goes and if anything wears well so be it fix it and move on but I must say I can't wait to send it with my gps on

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stroppo said..
I'm going to bang it straight on my standard fuselage and see how it goes I won't be jumping but will be loading it up so I'm quite interested to see how it goes and if anything wears well so be it fix it and move on but I must say I can't wait to send it with my gps on

Ah so ya getting one stroppo... sweet bro. For a Couple of beers reckon you could give us a quick crack. Might match up with ya 100 mast real nice.

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eppo said..

stroppo said..
I'm going to bang it straight on my standard fuselage and see how it goes I won't be jumping but will be loading it up so I'm quite interested to see how it goes and if anything wears well so be it fix it and move on but I must say I can't wait to send it with my gps on

Ah so ya getting one stroppo... sweet bro. For a Couple of beers reckon you could give us a quick crack. Might match up with ya 100 mast real nice.

Yeah certainly Eppo I have my name on the list for the first one when they arrive

Chatted with an Olympic kiwi sailer who has the 1125 for winging. She's been riding the 1125 in place of the 1250. Says it will catch any bump and uses the 1150 and 850 predominately. Also mentioned she prefers the 52cm A+ fuse over the 60 - helps with turning and maneuverability. She also tried the 1550v2 but stuck with the 1125 when she got her hands on it.

Thanks , keep the reports coming,I've ordered one but I recon it'll be weeks before I get it , so soaking up any feedback atm.

Here in Canada the Armstrong HA1125 is only $3,760.00 (with 13% H.S.T. [tax]) -- a real bargain! Thank god our government keeps sending us "free" money so we can buy this stuff or take a trip to Maui to improve our wing foiling skills.

www.2-rad.com/foils-1/

Yesterday at the wingfoil info session at SHQ (thank you SHQ Team, great organisation), Armie's answer to "how critical is to have A+ system for the HA1125?" was basically "not that critical". The top screw/barrel nut would work with the old fuse and the horizontal screw/barrel nut at the mast-fuse connection is more like 'nice to have'. He sounded more excited about the new tail of the A+ fuse as an improvement. It is more streamlined than the old one that uses titanium shims.

I gave the 1125 it's maiden voyage today! 100cm mast / 70 cm fuse / 13" kdmaui tail / +1 shim 4M wing in 14-20mph wing with flat water transitioning to thigh high river bumps in 80 feet of water. A+ barrel nut worked just fine with the 70 fuse.

My A+ 60 fuse didn't arrive (sold my old 60) and my 50 fuse wouldn't fit at the beach, but luckily I had packed my 70. I hadn't ridden the 70 fuse in over a year.

This foil is awesome. Finally seeing the light when de-powering into a wind bump and not feeling like I was on the verge of loosing speed quickly if I didn't take the perfect line. Even with the mega-mast burying the foil deep, I was connecting my longest downwind glides yet. I hated the 70 fuse though.

Made probably 80% of gybes compared to 98% on the 1250. Made my two toeside tack attempts (touched down on one).

I didn't get to push the speed too much as the flat water area had lighter wind and the longer fuse had me less confident. Upwind performance was unreal.

The stall speed looks around 7-9 mph based on gps. Launch speed is very similar in the 6-7 mph range. Definitely pumped to get on foil more than I have in a long while and I certainly worked out the soreness from yesterday's COVID vaccine! Really needed a strong gust while moving forward to get up. My mast positioning, strap location, and tail shim choice were probably not helping. Will need some dialing in (also going to experiment with baseplate shimming to help with back leg fatigue).

I will check back in after I get out on the 60 or 50 fuse with the new tail wing.

First time on a HA wing and I was kinda nervous feeling it out. It was really pretty easy and straight forward however. Gybing and turning required good form (no lazyness on the first session). I only had to jump off once on a cutback on a bump one where things felt sideslippy or weird in some way.

Initial thoughts: this will be my go-to river/ocean bump riding foil and down-winger foil, as well as summer flat surf pump wing. It also felt like it wanted to jump as it flew upwind!

Yeh that's what I thought it would be great for. Gotta try one for sure. We get plenty of no swell and/ or estuary days here.

I have had multiple sessions on the 1125 by now. My experience is consistent with yours.

It is for sure harder to get on the foil. I would put it somewhere between the 1250 and 850 (closer to 850). So you really need some push to get going. So really not a light wind foil.

Once on the foil it is easier to stay there as long as you keep enough speed. Stalling seems more abrupt compared to the HS line, where by now I can feel when it is going to drop. I'm sure in time it is more predictable for me too.

It is a fast wing. In terms of speed it feels like an 850 (gps shows the same). I also experienced that it is really good upwind. I was able to make angles I wasn't been able to make before. This is going to be a race machine.

Gibing and tacking is all good. Just need to be cautious you take enough speed into the turns, especially with tacking. The good thing is you can really lean into the turn without worrying about the tips breaching.

Where it excels is going down wind on a wave. I only had the possibility to try it out on small 0,5-075 wind swell (lets just say swell is a big word ;)). It just goes and goes without the need to work hard. You can focus on where you want to go instead of having to pump to make sections.

I have been using it with the 72 mast in flat water. No issues at all with tips breaching what's so ever. I have been using it with the 85 mast in small waves. Both sessions were with the 60 fuse and new 232 tail. Shimmed to +2. Tried it with the KD 14 inch tail too (only in flat water). See the potential there too.

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HubDekkers said..
I have had multiple sessions on the 1125 by now. My experience is consistent with yours.

It is for sure harder to get on the foil. I would put it somewhere between the 1250 and 850 (closer to 850). So you really need some push to get going. So really not a light wind foil.

Once on the foil it is easier to stay there as long as you keep enough speed. Stalling seems more abrupt compared to the HS line, where by now I can feel when it is going to drop. I'm sure in time it is more predictable for me too.

It is a fast wing. In terms of speed it feels like an 850 (gps shows the same). I also experienced that it is really good upwind. I was able to make angles I wasn't been able to make before. This is going to be a race machine.

Gibing and tacking is all good. Just need to be cautious you take enough speed into the turns, especially with tacking. The good thing is you can really lean into the turn without worrying about the tips breaching.

Where it excels is going down wind on a wave. I only had the possibility to try it out on small 0,5-075 wind swell (lets just say swell is a big word ;)). It just goes and goes without the need to work hard. You can focus on where you want to go instead of having to pump to make sections.

I have been using it with the 72 mast in flat water. No issues at all with tips breaching what's so ever. I have been using it with the 85 mast in small waves. Both sessions were with the 60 fuse and new 232 tail. Shimmed to +2. Tried it with the KD 14 inch tail too (only in flat water). See the potential there too.

Sorry I've gotta ask but what speeds are you getting on your gps on the HS 850and HA 1125 foils
thanks in advance