I just had the sickest session in ages waveriding a longboard!!!
I was out in 12-18knots and overhead waves with a 5.4.
I never thought i'd have so much fun.
I was even managing to hit the critical section of the lip and slide the tail round then ride the white water down onto the flats.

The weapon of choice was a tabou windstyler. I have been riding it in the light stuff recently with a 5.7 strappless out to the outer reefs near sorrento, but i decided that with the big walls of white water i'd need some straps on the thing. Alas i only had 3. So i put both back straps on and the front strap on the starboard side (all inboard positions). Well i never used the rear straps but (they would have neen usefull in my last offshore session), the front strap was invaluable to keep me onboard and moved the back foot from rail to rail to initiate and complete the turns.
/images/misc/forum-image-missing.gif
If only i had some pics from today!!!!

anyhow the use of a centreboard was good at times to keep upwind of all the surfers i was sharing the break.
Its got me thinking about a more dedicated light wind board that weighs less and is a little more snappy on the turns. What that board is i dunno but i know most of the SUP's available are fairly heavy.
What esle are you guys using for the same thing and how do you like it??

mini tanker i hear is very similar to what you describe you would like. one of the goldy guys is a big fan of his.

i was talking to a mate today who was on a kona surf, he takes it in the surf all the time, tries backloops and does freestyle type moves on flat water.

it's his only board now. he was looking at the kona 10.5 or 9.5 for a possible change. becuase they are lighter. not sure about how they handle myself though.

his comment on the kona surf was that sometimes he just wanted a tighter bottom turn but the top turn were snappy and getting over decent sized white water was easy. he is a big big fan. bloody bugger was planning in 8-10 knots with a 5.8 today.

Bertie do you think that you need all the length, I've been thinking about making a very very wide wave board but still short (I would have to work out a suitable rocker), The sea lion and seal from AHD are heading the way I was thinking.

nah it doesnt need all the length just depends on the nore rocker though. I had one fairly steep take off which i thought i was rooted but she just popped up.
I just looked at the stats on the kona mini tanker and it looks nice. http://www.kona-windsurfing.com/products/konaminitanker.asp
However i know a couple of the new AHD's are coming into town soonish and i'd really like a look at one of them before i commit any cash. www.a-h-d.com/boards/windsurf/2009/sealion/?ahdid=undefined
I think my biggest gripe is the weight of the board while trying to pivot it on the wave and the load thats putting through my bung knee.

what volume are you looking to make the board??

Looking at the sealine i'm realy impressed. I was thinking about custom making a board on my drive home and its pretty much that board with some straps. Which i weird coz i've only heard people talk about the Seal, i'd never seen any pics.

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Rider5 said...

Bertie do you think that you need all the length, I've been thinking about making a very very wide wave board but still short (I would have to work out a suitable rocker), The sea lion and seal from AHD are heading the way I was thinking.

I've got exactly what you're talking about, 130 litres or so, 2500 ish long, 750mm? wide...

Had some epic sessions at Gnaraloo, Spot X, and various places down the coast when the wind's light.

Takes a bit of commitment to do your first bottom turn but then it's YEEHAA all the way

Ive used my Starboard 11'2 with a 4.5m, 5.0m and a 5.3m sail in 15 knots and less. Probably not a real wavesailing longboard but it was possible.
Ive also sailed the Starboard 9'8 and 9'0. Not sure of the exact weight but Im sure the 9'0 sport tech model would be pretty light? 10kgs or less?

pics required nebs!!

Had as sail a while ago on a 100 litre freestyle board with 6 metre and about head high waves. Was getting around better than the kites in the light breeze. I'm keen to build a super light wave board now. thinking about 110 litres 2400 long and maybe 700 wide.
Big light wave boards can be heaps of fun. Bring it on

hopefully my contribution to the same outcome works for me.

not as much rocker what you guys are looking for but designed to achieve the same outcome. dimensions 240x70. a little bit more nose lift than the original and less thickness in the tail with thinner rails. looking for the best allround board i can get, freestyle/wave/freeride all in one.



reading this thread and looking at some ofthe other gear available hs made me think i should also look at removable thruster fins.

saw the board last weekend. hardcore foam is on.

i've done it on a few different SUP's like the Starboard 12'6 and the Naish 11'6 the old shape, the length could be shorter but you wouldn't want to go too short as you need the waterline to be able to sail back up wind the get more waves without having to do 100 tacks, your never on the plane i would think something about 10'5 to 11 ft about 30 inches wide, pretty much like an SUP but refine the back half of the board more suited to waveriding even go for a Twin or Quad fin setup. once there on a wave you only sail on the back 3rd of the board.

What about the xcite ride 120 or 130 litre?
Plenty of float, but still below 9ft and can be set up with three straps i.e. wave style

I got to play with the kona mini tanker last summer and I liked it.
The float at 120 ltrs was excellent for getting thru the waves, and as it was only 260cm long it was quite easy to push around.
The kona has a long straightish rail to help getting back up wind and a big fin. At 75 kgs though the board is almost too big and not as loose in the bottom turn as the smaller boards. But it did get me wave riding in 10 knots and could be uphauled.
I only need 12 to 15 to get out on my 75 ltr board(spewing I missed monday as it was light wind heaven with great waves), so for me a perfect 10 knot board would be around 90 ltrs but made for easy turning.

The problem with big xcites and carve type boards is the lack of turning ability. Okay for cruising but not pushing around unless you are on the larger side.

Those long boards Bertie was on and the sup 11'2's can be fun but the long sup boards have two problems.
If it is 15 knots plus they are hard to control in tight turns as you need to be at the back of the board to turn it, which leaves you out of shape holding the rig way up the middle. If it is less wind then the apparent wind kind of gets in the way and you wish you could ditch the rig and surf the boards.
The 9'0 9'8 sups are better as you can turn them like a short board and the rig is much closer to you.

I believe hoops will come up with something good as will rider5.
Hey Bertie, watch the knee - I recon there is more chance to twist the knee up in the light wind surfing than in stronger winds. The board gets pushed around more by the wave and the sail can't help give you leverage to recover quickly. What do you think, have you found the same?

You better have a good exuse paul for not coming down on monday there was 2 windsurfers 1 kite and nice waves.Itwasnt that light we were planing around on 5.6 80 twin it was southerly so you could get vertical and hook it under the lip

well i thought i'd post another report from todays session at mets.

Thisarvo i swung by airbourne kiting/Auswind/standuppaddle and had a good chat with marco about my predicament.
I ended up with a starboard 9'8"x30" "element" (2009 with a rounded pin tail) to demo for the day

So with some overhead waves and about 18-20 surfers in the break it was pretty intimidating demoing a new board.
My first wave i pulled onto was well overhead and i totally had my arse spanked as i nosedived. this lead me to a very long swim that ended up at the beach

So i got my breath back and fired up the 5.0 again and went out again.
This board without straps, i discovered i had to move around heaps more to avoid the dreaded nosedives and to get some reasonable turns in. This lead me to discover the tail kick pad. If it werent for this baby lettin me know how far back i could go i would have stepped off the board a dozen times. All of my wave rides on waves over chest high i found my back foot right at the back of the board.

Anyway as the arvo progressed i got more and more comfortable on the board and was falling off a lot less, particularly during my tacks. I had a sweet off the lip turn throwing a bucket ove a goat boat who was trying to drop in on me

I dunno whether the surfers were staring at me with mouths open while i was on the wave coz i'm awesome or coz they were shi77ing themselves Anyhow i had a great time and let the surfers get plenty of waves, untill the sun went down and then i turned into a wave vampire.

since i have to drop the board back tomorrow i then drove to hillarys marina and tried it out as a paddle board. Was real easy to paddle around on until you got into the windy section and wanted to go directly into the wind, but i guess that a technique thing.
Anyhow all in all a great day that satisfied my wave addiction and even scared myself how much i improved my surf skills over the day.

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Bertie said...

pics required nebs!!

From memory Bertie, think you may have helped with this board.
It's the "hardy special" aka "lemony snickets" I built for hardy a while ago, mainly to his design ideas.
Neb's bought it from him.
It wasn't designed as an all out wave board, but an early planning ocean going light wind board.
I built as much wave riding ability into it as I could, because I just love the concept of light wind wave riding.
But if the brief had been a 10-15kt all out wave board, I'd have made the tail narrower and increased the tail rocker.
Wouldn't have planned so early and wouldn't be as fast on flat water, but would have been looser and more controllable on a wave.
Here's the board as it left here.



Being only 70Kg, I don't need anything this big, my 10-15kt wave board is about 90 litres, and 237 X 59 X 12
This is how it looked when I first made it in January 2007

Beerpig
I checked the swell in the morning - nothing. So I planned the day with the wife.

Went by Cott at 4pm and nearly tore my hair out. Not only 15 knots but swell. Enough to make the local go off.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope the swell sticks around for tomorrow morning. I'll be there early.

I recon decrepit is onto the right board size and shapes for our size with those blue boards of his.

Hey Bertie, those first wave cainings are humbling aren't they until you find your feet, as they say. Just wait till you get to try on a longer wave without obstacles.

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Paul said...
Hey Bertie, those first wave cainings are humbling aren't they until you find your feet, as they say. Just wait till you get to try on a longer wave without obstacles.

I tell ya what the surfers love gettin in the way eh!! Yesterday i nearly ran one over, didnt have any near misses today but damm they ruined a fair few waves by being in just the wrong spot at the wrong time.

hmm decisions. this is gunna be hard.

hi decrepit,

what are the dims of nebs board including the one foot off the tail?

i asked for my new toy to have removable thruster added to it. will be interesting to see what that does.

Sorry gestalt, can't find anything on it except that the blank was 250 X 70.
We actually designed the board on the blank, I may have written the dimensions on the wall of the shaping bay, I'll check tomorrow.

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Paul said...

Beerpig
<<<<<<

I recon decrepit is onto the right board size and shapes for our size with those blue boards of his.

>>>>>.

I was also out yesterday, (on the above board) had just come in when the other 2 went out.
I can confirm you missed out!
The conditions were at the top end of the range I built the board for, about 15kts, could plane across the wind but easier to grovel to get upwind.

Hi Gestalt,

Dimensions are (I just went out and measured them for you)

Length: 248cm
Width: 70cm
1 foot off the tail: 46 cm

These probably aren't exact, it's a bit hard at night when you can't see what you're doing, but it should give you some idea.

Wow Im really liking this thread.
A good read and very informative.
Keep the reviews coming Bertie

Think some are missing the point of the longboard wavesailing, imagine it like surfing,

Light wind - SUP or similar = traditional mal surfing, long drawn out turns, crusing.

Normal wind - Wave board = 6'4 thruster, pulling into barrels etc.

When it's light i would prefer the long board, strapless, it's more fun to run up and down the big beast, trying to turn and stay on, the feeling of gliding around out the back, tacks are easy, you can just stand there and wait for a wave, even uphaul easy in the impact zone and you only need to use a 5.0m sail. And most of all waves are way easy to catch and they keep going through to dodgy full sections.

Where as if you where on a smaller board or big version of a wave board you would lose all that, you would need a big clumsy sail, it would be a pig to sail around on when your not on a wave, the straps would bug the hell out of you standing on them all the time and you would have to pump you guts out just to get a wave. And if you fell in the break it would be a pain in the ass to uphaul..

I think if your going to ride a short board or a big version of a wave board you should just wait till there is enough wind to sail a proper one...

Hi Pc,

one thing is for sure, this thread has convinced me to try a sup. i've taken one designs in the surf before but always found i got backwinded when sailing along the face. kind of took the fun out of it. is there a technique to avoid this?

not being a wave sailor i was wondering. wouldn't the length of board be more about the type of wave? so lumpy full waves go the sup and hollow lippy waves use a big version of a wave board?

Hi Nebs and decrepit,

cheers for the dims, sounds about where i am at with the dimensions. i've tried 37cm 42cm and now the 45cm.

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P.C_simpson said...

>>>>>>

I think if your going to ride a short board or a big version of a wave board you should just wait till there is enough wind to sail a proper one...

For me 12kt is fine on my 237 with a 5.3m sail, enough wind to waterstart and get on the wave early enough, and still have a bit of power in the sail down the line.

Less than 10kts, I agree with you, the 237 is too small, take off is late, which means having to stall around in the impact zone. Once on a wave, the sail is acting as an air brake, as the apparent wind has swung round to the front, might as well just go surfing.

Gesty I think getting backwinded, is either due to wind direction, (too onshore) or wind strength (too light)
If it's happening as you turn up the wave, you need to sheet out more as you go up, and sheet back in as you come down.
If it's happening as you go along the wave, try riding it in the opposite direction, if possible of course.

And thanks to Nebs for supplying tail width, I do have that board's progress on the shaping bay wall, but tail width isn't mentioned.

Thinking about gesty's thruster idea, that may help. depends if you get the angle and position right.
Too much toe in will slow the board down, not enough and it will stiffen the board up instead of loosening it.

I tend to disagree about the length issue, I have now had the AHD Sealion out twice in waist to chest high waves with about 10Kns wind and my 97kg weight with a 6.2 Alpha and this thing has blown my mind. Two words " It Works"
A couple of things with this board:
1) Super light almost the same as my pro additon JP wave boards
2) No foot straps and board is shaped like a traditonal Fish surfboard with 18" twin fins
3) This board turns on a dime
4) I can esaly up haul this at 135L
5) All over deck grip

I must admit I was worried about the length and the lake of glide but this has proved not to be a issue to my suprise not sure if it is the light weight which makes it very pumpable.
I also got hold of a 102L Seal which I have used once first, this is a very different board to my usal JP Real World waves. The side thruster fins grip alot when mot on a wave which made the back single fin feel very loose. I can see this board working well for the sub plaining to just plaining conditions, but will up date you on this when I get more time on it.

pete

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Pete T said...

I tend to disagree about the length issue, I have now had the AHD Sealion out twice in waist to chest high waves with about 10Kns wind and my 97kg weight with a 6.2 Alpha and this thing has blown my mind. Two words " It Works"
A couple of things with this board:
1) Super light almost the same as my pro additon JP wave boards
2) No foot straps and board is shaped like a traditonal Fish surfboard with 18" twin fins
3) This board turns on a dime
4) I can esaly up haul this at 135L
5) All over deck grip

I must admit I was worried about the length and the lake of glide but this has proved not to be a issue to my suprise not sure if it is the light weight which makes it very pumpable.
I also got hold of a 102L Seal which I have used once first, this is a very different board to my usal JP Real World waves. The side thruster fins grip alot when mot on a wave which made the back single fin feel very loose. I can see this board working well for the sub plaining to just plaining conditions, but will up date you on this when I get more time on it.

pete

Hi Pete,

how did you find the length of the seal? i haven't enjoyed ultra short boards (2.2m) in dredging mode and found them hard to tack. was this a problem with the seal?

hi decrepit,

the backwinding was happening in 6-8 knots while riding the waves in, the OD doesn't turn on a wave very well at all if ever, what i found is once i got some speed the sail would act like a brake.

will pm you.

cheers.

Gestalt,

I had the same worries about the length for tacking but it does not seem to be a problem, the board is wide at 62cm but I think it is more to do with the fact that the front straps are very close to the mast track. On a wave I have only had it out once but with boards like this I believ you should be catching waves with the board already pointing in the direction you are going more like surfing when you should paddle down the line to take off so you are already in position instead of paddling straight towards the beach and then doing a long drawn out bottom turn.
I will keep you up dated on my findings.

Pete

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Gestalt said...

hi decrepit,

the backwinding was happening in 6-8 knots while riding the waves in, the OD doesn't turn on a wave very well at all if ever, what i found is once i got some speed the sail would act like a brake.

will pm you.

cheers.

Not much you can do about it at those wind speeds the sail is just along for the ride, I think it would be better if it's side off, then the sail powers up a bit as you go down the line. But that makes it harder to actually get on the wave.
All you can do is try and trail the sail, grab it by the mast and let it flutter.

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Pete T said...

I tend to disagree about the length issue, I have now had the AHD Sealion out twice in waist to chest high waves with about 10Kns wind and my 97kg weight with a 6.2 Alpha and this thing has blown my mind. Two words " It Works"
A couple of things with this board:
1) Super light almost the same as my pro additon JP wave boards
2) No foot straps and board is shaped like a traditonal Fish surfboard with 18" twin fins
3) This board turns on a dime
4) I can esaly up haul this at 135L
5) All over deck grip

I must admit I was worried about the length and the lake of glide but this has proved not to be a issue to my suprise not sure if it is the light weight which makes it very pumpable.
I also got hold of a 102L Seal which I have used once first, this is a very different board to my usal JP Real World waves. The side thruster fins grip alot when mot on a wave which made the back single fin feel very loose. I can see this board working well for the sub plaining to just plaining conditions, but will up date you on this when I get more time on it.

pete

Where are you located Pete any pics of the Lion ?