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mathew said..

Manawa said..
Hi guys thanks again much apprecitated, I am a good jumper but I don't know if try again speed loop or as soon as possible forward loop on the sea, why? because of my age 47 years old , I am able to surfing Oneye sometime I try a back loop but...... front loop is a big problem mha...

pussy maybe?

A spin-loop is easier than a back-loop, and you are less likely to get hurt.

This video is top ahahah thanks again very nice super ;)

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mathew said..

Manuel7 said..

mathew said..

A spin-loop is easier than a back-loop, and you are less likely to get hurt.

Depends... was much much easier for me. Technically and psychologically.

Not depends... the pro's are doign stalled double's, yet no double-backies.... and when SQ says she hasn't got it nailed, then it must be harder.

?t=1139

And when Manual says they are easier... How many has he landed vs attempts? From what I have seen once you get the Forward they are easy.... but backies... well.... you might land a few, just because you can almost accidentally but to stick them consistently is another matter...

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gorgesailor said..

mathew said..

Manuel7 said..

mathew said..

A spin-loop is easier than a back-loop, and you are less likely to get hurt.

Depends... was much much easier for me. Technically and psychologically.

Not depends... the pro's are doign stalled double's, yet no double-backies.... and when SQ says she hasn't got it nailed, then it must be harder.

?t=1139

And when Manual says they are easier... How many has he landed vs attempts? From what I have seen once you get the Forward they are easy.... but backies... well.... you might land a few, just because you can almost accidentally but to stick them consistently is another matter...

Have to agree,
tried 400 plus easily backs no luck.
forwards sorted on both tacks with much less effort

Also depends on your conditions.

If conditions are good for backloops, I usually land 2. My Max is 3 really close to landing 5. That's out of 10-12 attempts? Lately I've been going for medium to big ones since I found a way to bail mid jump no problem coming in at full speed :D !!!

For me, there's much much less to do than in a front loop, especially a speed loop.

The way I see it is that the backloop is all about positioning ourselves over a specific part of the wave (where it breaks). Then pretty much everything happens by itself without us doing much at all. Heck, we may even stay hooked in!

On the contrary a front loop can be set off over nearly any section of a wave but involves a perfectly timed body action.

There could also be a debate over how a jump is landed. One can get away with a sloppy landing and odd sheeting angle on a forward but pretty unlikely on a backie.

Another interesting factor, I have been able to try 15 forwards per session no matter the conditions, that's very rare for backies. It's often more like 2-3 to 12. Sometimes 0.

I have zero experience with pushloops but from what I heard those are easier to land than backies. Can be learned with only a few attempts. See push loop challenge from windsurfing TV as an example.

Ive been following this thread for a while and decided to start my own loop journey this year. I took the Wymaroo method like you Manuel. I was finally able to land one and waterstart away so hope that means im going in the right direction.

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Ken29 said..
Ive been following this thread for a while and decided to start my own loop journey this year. I took the Wymaroo method like you Manuel. I was finally able to land one and waterstart away so hope that means im going in the right direction.

uh? that's such a beautiful sail projection, wow! awesome! You'll be mastering late forwards in no time at all!

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Ken29 said..
Ive been following this thread for a while and decided to start my own loop journey this year. I took the Wymaroo method like you Manuel. I was finally able to land one and waterstart away so hope that means im going in the right direction.

Nice one Kenny

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Ken29 said..
Ive been following this thread for a while and decided to start my own loop journey this year. I took the Wymaroo method like you Manuel. I was finally able to land one and waterstart away so hope that means im going in the right direction.

very nice ... that can be used in a training video !

a) move your back hand very far back ( you can see it at about 4 seconds in - just as Ken waterstarted )
b) looking back ( at about 2 seconds )
b) the sail is projected forward and opening it up, to remove the mast-foot pressure and get some pop
c) Ken is standing up tall, over the board.
... the rest is just going along enjoying the ride

Good luck, and hope you get it sorted soon.

One of my most recent tries... feedback?

I'd say my sail is a bit too sheeted in (with the board) et not enough across when popping, maybe body a bit too outboard too?



Not tucked enough and I feel like I'm not using all of the sail's power to whip around fast, I'm "falling" too much.




Found maybe my best one yet:

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Jman said..
Looking good just throw the rig forward!!!

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gorgesailor said..
Good to see you back at it in earnest! However.... look at your arms! ... still seem much too bent...

I think you have the answers in all the previous comments
Roy had shared a good link on (page 1) that shows the front arm extending forward and up...

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Roy said..
+1 for being too far back (although Im definitely no forward expert!)

Check out this video around 3min mark, it might give you some good tips.

I am no expert either but for me doing lots of 'judo' forward roll extending the arm out has help a lot with the confidence back on the water afterwards (and the good thing is that you can practise forward roll everyday if you want...get a crash mat and practise at home )

I agree that it'd be nice to see my front arm extended on the first photo, it extends a touch later.

Also, I'm thinking that I must be keeping some weight behind or to the side which slows down the rotation.

From moving forward over the board, I was feeling a lack of sail traction. Thought I needed to open the sail more at the pop. And so today, I tried to bring the sail more across and in front of me.... wow now I had more back hand amplitude. Now I was quite underpowered with only planing in the short gusts so I'll need to confirm when properly powered.

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I agree with the latter. I think your body needs to be over the board and your head almost over the mast base.

Manuel7 said..
One of my most recent tries... feedback?

I'd say my sail is a bit too sheeted in (with the board) et not enough across when popping, maybe body a bit too outboard too?

I was watching some front loop challenge videos and notice how much the sail moves in front of the rider.

1. Release back hand
2. Bring sail across in front of us (with front hand) sliding rear hand back
3. Either pop over flat water or let the board glide over a nice ramp
4. Transfer our weight forward
5. Extend front arm and sheet in (look back)
6. Tuck back leg

If 2 isn't done well, better start things off downwind.
We may look back at 4. It's much less scary to do the move looking back then looking downwind at the pop!
However, since we need to throw the sail forward and across, looking back early may hinder that motion.

To me, it's seems a bit far from the jumping and sheeting in approach :D !
I'm still confused about how easy it's supposed to be?
However, I do understand that once we get it, we pretty much have it.

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Manuel7 said..
I was watching some front loop challenge videos and notice how much the sail moves in front of the rider.

1. Release back hand
2. Bring sail across in front of us (with front hand) sliding rear hand back
3. Either pop over flat water or let the board glide over a nice ramp
4. Transfer our weight forward
5. Extend front arm and sheet in (look back)
6. Tuck back leg

If 2 isn't done well, better start things off downwind.
We may look back at 4. It's much less scary to do the move looking back then looking downwind at the pop!
However, since we need to throw the sail forward and across, looking back early may hinder that motion.

To me, it's seems a bit far from the jumping and sheeting in approach :D !
I'm still confused about how easy it's supposed to be?
However, I do understand that once we get it, we pretty much have it.

If you can jybe you can forward loop - there's less to do in a forward no flipping the rig or getting in and out of the straps the only thing you really need to do is commit to the rotation

the online tutorials available now give you all the details of how it needs to be done - without having to have a massive set of kahuna's

I think instead of trying off chop you should go off 1/2 mast or bigger waves - you will then have a heap of time for the rotation this was how I learnt to do them in 1991 - (when there was no such thing as a youtube tutorial - the only advice then was - move your back hand back and sheet in! the only other tip was "close your eyes" ) in once you get the feel for the rotation and realize how easy they actually are then you can start to try off smaller and smaller waves until you get down to be able to do them off chop / flat water

Yes, trying off of waves helped me get more rotation. But being on-side-on at the moment, makes it a bit tougher.
The problem with bigger waves is that I tend not to go for it 100% whereas bigger chop yes.

I noticed number 6 today (back leg tuck), for me it's a must because of the way the board angle is, now it's landing upside down.
So possibly final step focus on tucking the back leg , not only should it help the rotation but it'll be easier to waterstart in the straps.

Well that's it, quest is coming to an end!!! Yesterday's session was just perfect, 16-23 knots, a few bumps, so many attempts! Waves and chop, didn't really have any problems aside from starting off more upright with sail more across. The rest is decent enough! Tried many waterstarts in the straps but I bend my front arm too early. So happy, the rotation is amazingly fast like a gunshot!

I even started on Port :D ... not so pretty but know what to do and attempts are much more forward now I need to open and scissor the board with the sail nicely before going.

To celebrate...



Maybe I can get an external view in the next few days. Will be nice to see what it looks like outside the GoPro !!!

Congrats mate, its been a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng journey!

1315 attempts +/- 100 :D ?.... wait until I start working on Port tack.

Today, first forward landed, almost standing, a light touch from the body. Gusty 16-29 knots, probably one of the worst water state I've seen here and I ran into a nice side-side-on chop 1m quite vertical, well powered up, popped nicely, tucked in and landed with a soft body touch and I was up, no need to waterstart. I am so happy. I tried on the other side, there's some work still :D !

Looking good Manu. Congrats!

Thanks guys, total number landed so far: 3. Pretty good given the difficult water state but at least we have some windy wind :)
I feel like I have learned so much going fully around in the past couple of days than going through over 1000 attempts in 1 year!!!
This move is now because it's very easy to reproduce and can be done very often.

I have been reviewing my attempts from my quest and it's amazing how close I was early on. I just needed to keep the board with me by tucking in my legs and I would have landed a few almost after 1-2 months into them. The problem was that some bad falls/hesitations set me back and then I got mentally more stuck.

I got some tips for wanna-bees that I'm not so much seeing in videos but I'm waiting to get more experience before revealing them :D !
Also, how long did it take you to learn the other side?

It's so a fun move, I can't help myself but throw them all the time even when I know I "shouldn't", haha ! Can't wait to get my camera back, already missed out some massive fails!

Can't help but try them all the time now, getting more familiar with where to set my front hand for optimal power and angle of rotation.

Nice examples of someone really "angry" from both tacks, we can see the sail being briefly pulled over and the back hand looking way back to pull into all of the power:

1315 attempts +/- 100!!!

Respect for your dedication and resilience

I've got this theory that very few kids these days have the tenacity and resilience to take up windsurfing because it is such a hard sport to perfect!

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jase54 said..
1315 attempts +/- 100!!!

Respect for your dedication and resilience

I've got this theory that very few kids these days have the tenacity and resilience to take up windsurfing because it is such a hard sport to perfect!

Thank you :) !

The awesome thing though is that I learned much more that I would have expected and beyond the windsurfing world! That, in itself, made it worth the attempts.

Sometimes I wish it was easier so the sport would drive more people into it but honestly with the right gear it can be enjoyable rapidly. Dirt windsurfing let us practice almost anywhere anytime for example! I much prefer doing that with a 5.0 than sailing an 9.0 over icy waters :D

Currently working on progress video, splitting it in months. It took me about 6 months worth of effort total. Amazingly enough had I tucked the board under my bum during month 1, I would have landed them then! However, something wasn't right at the time... anyway, it'll be a nice thing to remember my path to the loop and hopefully help others through their own quest.

Freshly redesigned website: windsurfing.lepicture.com

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Landed into the warerstart position on about the 6th attempt 2 days ago. Very powered up launching of steepish ramps a bit off the wind. I did do broomstick exercises the night before.

Good stuff! Your technique looks good.

You shifted your hand back a little but it needs to be right back near the boom cleat to get the whip to land them dry. Tonky does good ones, look at his videos for guidance.