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Kazza said...

Oh well I'd better tell all Olympic athletes just to turn up to their event and not bother training. And don't bother training your horses up for enduro events just take them in it.
I was talking in terms if you want to get the best out of yourself, and if you can't get out and sail much (like over winter) it's best to strengthen ligments, tendons & muscles to prepare for a one off big distance sail.
Sorry but it's what I believe, each to their own.

Now your being silly. Nobody would question your views and I for one would tottally agree that athletes at an elte level have to do intense preperation work and strengthenig/stretching to develop themselves. And as far as Endurance horses are concerned, well they have 4 legs and weigh 6 times what I do. They need lots of aerobic and more importantly to get to a top level anerobic exercise as well as strengthening/stretching. But then again they have to run 80 - 160 km.
Were talking windsurfing which as far as I'm concerned involves lots of conditioning i.e.time on the water. Theres a bit of aerobic demand, but certainly not much anerobic demand at all for distance sailing, especially if you are cruising around in 20-30 knots.
You stated that to go out and sail competitively every time and try and sail more than your mates is 'a good way to wreck your body', I find this absolutely laughable. And as far as sports science goes, listening to your body! Well if we all listened to our bodies we'd all give up befor we even got to the next level and star to burn lactic acid as the fuel that it is!!!!! Instead crying about the pain and cramps!!!!

I have caused myself trouble at Stanley by staying out too long and struggling to water start simply because I was buggered..... just casually drifted out with the tide for a while.. (thanks Dave and Paul for keeping an eye on where I was headed!)
However I do believe that the main reason I tired is because of the ludacrist amount of time I spend water starting and manouvering the rig.....
At places such as Dorans sailing for long periods doesnt seem to be an issue...And I aint fit... not even anywhere near it lol

There you have it.. the "newbie" opinion

Just got to set ya rig up rite with absolutely no pressure on your arms and even pressure on your legs and you will be able to sail for ages

Are we talking about 500km distance here or going for a blast on flat water?
From my own personal experiences i know there are definately different levels of stamina/fitness needed for the various disciplines of our sport.
Flat water cruising is the least demanding, obviously record breaking distance will require more stamina.
I think we should all put it to the test by sitting on our back sides all winter eating burgers, and then go to MAUI and sail for 8 hours straight in 30knots!!
If you think you feel fine after that, go out in the waves.

If were lucky enough to get a crack at henty back and forth from 12am-12pm wonder how far would we we travel??

Flat water can be some of the most demanding times in speed sailing.

I think we're talking going for distance. Inparticular just normal sailing in a setting like Dorans and trying to sail as far as possible in the conditions and beating your mates.
If we were talking about going wavesailing it would be a whole different kettle of fish. When I went to Gnarloo I spent months in the gym before going. Cardio work for 30-40 minutes, 20minutes stretching, Resistance machine reps, 20 min stretching, 20 minutes swimming and wind down stretching in the Hydro pool. If I hadnt done that I probably wouldnt have lasted sailing 5 hours a day for 11 days straight. So in that situation I fully agree you need to prepare for the situation.

I just disagree with someone saying that the experts believe that the sailing I'm doing at the moment and pushing myself by sailing longer is 'a good way to wreck your body'.
It may well be for some people, but I think myself and all the others down here that would attempt large distances are conditioned enough and know their own limitations to be able to go out and try to achieve a goal when the conditions allow without acting as though their some kind of elitist that needs endless preparation in a gym.

Now I'm sounding like a stuck record, again.

The end story is stay active, sail when you can and above all else kick Daves ass, and be nice to Kazza cause shes gunna kick everyones ass to prove a point

What a load of crap, I'm now in my 60th year and I know my limits.

Last year I sailed Lighthouse with Buzzy...four and a half hours....couldn't get out of the water I was so buggered.....that night went to bucks party in Marrawah pub, droped a few shots, got to sleep around 3am.
Next day drove to Sandy Cape, came back to Greens, hit the waves, had a heart attack in the water, dragged myself a km up the beach, gulped 3 packs of quickeeze, went back and picked up my gear, airlifted to the Royal, nurses kept me alive after a quick op, told me to keep off the water for 6 weeks, back in water after 10 days, sailed 184km after 4 weeks...........
OK I'm on a death wish......but I'm still having fun and fun is what its all about

And to be serious for one second, you're all right....just depends who you are and how you want to do it

I'm getting fit reading this thread
Look my cheeks are red, time for another high energy stubby

cheers Russ

For the record this was my account of the day I sailed 500 kms (14.5 hrs) and the challenge was much more about keeping the motivation up than worrying about getting tired or exhausted (posting this to inspire others to push themselves mentally and achieve a distance PB):

Rigged in the dark, with the wind blowing in the trees not really knowing what the water state was like. As I was heading out (at 5:20AM) I could see it was pretty rough. Very powered up with the 6.5 straight away and uncomfortable sailing conditions with chop on top of a southerly swell. Could only point upwind as too messy to reach at speed, let alone go off the wind. Decided pretty quickly that the only thing to do was to head up to South Arm and get out of the swell. Took almost 2 hrs. Going reasonably quick, but taking it easy and trying not to get jarred too much. Much nicer once in behind the lee of South Arm and able to pick up a bit more speed. Kept going upwind for almost another hour until I made it right up into the top of the bay. Much flatter here!! After nearly three hours, turned off the wind and did my 1 hr PB. Thought it best to get this in as soon as possible!! As I gybed out of the last turn 40 seconds after the completing the 1 hr, sailed straight over to Steve who had just emerged out of the grey drizzle. It was now around 10 AM. We then both sailed back up wind to the top of the bay. Steve didn't have too much time so did his one hour and headed back to Sandy Bay (still a mamoth effort with PB distance and 1hr). I followed him for my second off the wind 1 hr and then headed back upwind again. This time I stayed up in the top of the bay and clocked up some easy miles (flatter water). It was around 2PM now and all was going well. Quite a way from home, no one else out and still miserable weather. The wind started to faulter a bit so I decided to head back to Sandy Bay and take my chances back in the swell and chop of the River (or potentially be stranded miles from anywhere in a dying wind on a sinky board). Took over an hour to get back to Sandy Bay. Wind had dropped out a bit for a while making it difficult to get on the plane at one stage after always being fully powered up until then. Wind came back in though, allowing me to get back to Sandy Bay. Time was now 4:30PM and I had done 380 km's. Had only had a bowl of cereal that morning, but had plenty of chocolate and energy bars in the car, so scoffed three Boost bars and had half a bottle of Gatorade. Didn't stop for long and went back down to the gear on the beach. Still very windy and rough. decided at that stage to swap to the 122 to make life a little easier and in case the wind dropped out at all. Really didn't want to get stuck anywhere. Not a single other boat on the Derwent, yet normally it is packed with water craft - highlights how rough and wet and miserable the weather was - but it was windy and that's all that mattered!! Despite the 94L iSonic being a dream to sail, the 122 with a 40 cm Venom felt great from the moment I stepped on it. It allowed a lot more control in the confused waters. Basically there were three sections of water as I sailed across the river. The first section was not too bad and lasted about 2/5th of the way over, then there was this horrible area in the middle that was quite confused and then there was another 2/5th that had the chop running more broad to the wind one way than the other, making going over OK, but coming back meant punching into steep chop. Almost every set of swell/waves needed the decision, point up and slow down and try not to get airborne or bear away and get to the end of the line until you could straighten up again. This is where the 122 came into it's own!! I think the different sections were to do with fresh water running out on the first 'nice' 2/5th, the middle bit was just churning chop where you had to go slower and the last bit was as though there was a current running agains the swell, making the waves stand up higher than they should (like an outgoing tide).

I had calculated that I needed to do 6 runs over to the other side to beat Claude's 423 km (sorry Claude) and when I came ashore after doing 6 runs over and back I had 436 km's. I now knew I was averaging 9 km per run and that 7 more should see me at 500 km. So I actually counted down each run over and back and then when I finished I did one more run over and back just to make sure. Came ashore and had 509 km's on the dial. Physically, I could have done more runs over and back, but felt happy to have passed 500 and to have made it back safe. It was also getting pretty dark, with an overcast day and being 7:45PM.

The time actually went pretty quick and was never really dull. Always thinking about where to next and going upwind and down wind a lot of the time kept it fun. Tried to never over exert myself, pulled off slow careful gybes and always hooked into the harness before sheeting in the sail and then just let the wind take me (rather than a power gybe). Didn't cramp up at all (arms or legs) and still haven't. Felt tired last night and still a bit sore today, but no blisters on the hands and not feeling too bad after the days sailing. Worked all day today and then had to go out to a work function this evening, so only just back now at 11PM!!

Not too keen to do it again, but should the need arise ...

Funnily enough, ... the need has just arisen!

Errr Dave could you repeat that please

Great read Dave..... Very inspiring...
Im gonna smash my distance record on the weekend [}:)]

Just dont ask what my record is cos I aint sayin

Great story Dave

And this was Jacques account of his record breaking session on Monday:

I don't know if the founders of www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au and www.gps-speedsurfing.com had this in mind….but besides the great fun and the competition element of both websites, these websites are really helpful to improve your own skills and to raise the bar to crazy hights. Sometimes i question myself why i'm driving so many miles to get better conditions for GPS speeds compared to my homespot close by, or to get out of bed super early to catch the best wind or try to do motivate myself to break (personal) records or sailing big distances. But on the other hand it always gives a lot of satisfaction and motivation to do it again and again.

A few times before i was sailing 200+km distance on one day, everytime i was totally broken at the end but also had to quit because of the darkness or the decreasing wind. For a long time i was waiting for the perfect day to at least improve my personal distance and to set a daylight distance on windsurf equipment that was at least unbreakable by myself.

Last summer it never really happened, a few weeks ago i set my alarm already a few times very early to check if the wind was already strong enough, but at that time i cancelled the attempts.

Sunday 15 may i was planning a distance attempt aswell but i had to cancel it again as the wind was not there and the forecast was not good enough anymore for that day. Monday 16 may 2011 i set my alarm at 4.30am, checked the wind and it was already blowing 8.2m/s, forecast was increasing wind but not super strong and at least the forecast was steady wind for the whole day. Without a doubt i jumped out of my bed and drove for one hour to the Grevelingen – Zonnemaire.

When i arrived at 5.30am it was already light outside (so starting a bit earlier was possible) and started rigging directly. My choice was big equipment with a wide windrange, still controllable and easy to sail in powered up conditions. The wind was not steady in the beginning but i needed to start to get in already some distance. After 13km and 15 minutes of sailing i needed to get a new harness. It took me 15 minutes to reach my car and i was able to start again at 6.25am with 13km on the dial. I was wearing 2 GT-31 devices and put them both on distance, had no time with me except for on the gps but display was on distance. Was planning to do at least 100km before having a brake, but after i reached this i still felt ok to go on. The wind direction was more West than forecasted so it was not possible to sail along the brick wall upwind and every lap i did 3,5 km through the chop and the way back 3,5 km along the speed wall. Tried to sail as much as possible with the back hand loose and fingers stretched. First time in my life i was really happy with the rain, my boom was super wet the whole time and my mouth was not drying out like i experienced with previous hour attempt in the past. Also i sailed in fresh water and not in salt, this is probably also an advantage. After 213km i decided to have a break, it was 11.30am. Was not planning at all to do more than 500km, was aiming for something around 350km or to break the dutch distance record (426km by peter Vernet), so took it easy and went back on the water around 12. Luckely some more windsurfers joined me, this was a good motivation to go on. When Hans also arrived after a few hours the wind shifted to WZW or ZW and increased a little bit, now i was able to sail longer reaches, around 7,5km instead of 3,5. After i did 373km i took a small break in the water to drink some RedBull and to eat a Snicker. Saw Hans doing an hour attempt on the short very flat section behind the speedwall in front of the parking. This motivated me to do another faster hour together with him, this was my fastest hour of the day (45km) and compared to Hans his hour of 49 it was a bit slow. I knew the record on GPSTC was 511km, so after 460 km of sailing i thought i must be stupid to quit after al those hours of sailing as i was so close to this record and still sailing in the perfect conditions. The last kilometers were not funny anymore, was alone on the water and every 1,7km i had to make a jibe. After 522 km on my display I went back to the beach were Hans and Roderick were sitting on a chair drinking beer asking me why i didn't go on;-). We check the file with the doppler distance on the computer and this was enough, so this was it for the day. But it was still windy and 2 hours before darkness….. Hans told me he will do the same attempt in the summer when the days are longer. It will be a nice battle between Hans, Dave, Kaleb and the other guys from Tassie Speedseekers.

Or maybe somebody else will surprise us. I'm happy i can watch it now from behind my computer and wish you all the best to break it again.

Data
16 May 2011
Grevelingen – Zonnemaire, Netherlands

Wind WSW 12-25knots

Time, Distance & Food5.30am – 5.45cm; rigging, bottle No Xplode
5.45am – 6.05am; 13km
6.05am – 6.25am; getting a new harness
6.25am – 11.30am; 213km
11.30am – 12.00am; bottle No Xplode & Bananas lunchbreak
12.00am – 16.10pm; 373km,
16.10pm – 16,15pm; Redbull & Snicker break
16.15pm – 18.15pm; 460km;
18.15pm – 18.25pm; Redbull & Snicker break
18.25pm – 20.00pm; 521km

Equipment
JP Slalom VII 68 V112 board
JP 3D footstraps
Hurricane SpeedSlalom M- 40cm fin
NP RS Racing Evo3 7,8 sail
Chinook double sail pulley
NP X9 460 mast
NP X9 200-260 boom
NP Race Vario 22-28”harness lines
Ronstan hig load blocks
Clamcleat on ring
Formuline 3.8mm ropes
NP MXT 14cm extension
NP MXT base

Geez what have I created, think I'll keep me mouth shut, sorry guys it was just the athlete mind coming out in me. Do what ever you want to do

Hey Kazza, sorry, didn't mean to be negative. Out of interest, what training do you think you would need to do to beat the current World Womens Distance Record of 149 kms. Would you train in the gym and work yourself up to it slowly by doing windsurfing sessions that gradually build up to that distance (say 50, 75, 100, 125 and then the big 150 km), or would you just wait for good conditions and just go for it and see how far you can go?

C,mon guys, settle down. I think Kaz has allready done 50,80,100 without recording on the gps WITHOUT ANY training.
she often sails a lot longer than most.
Anyone who sails consistently for 4-5 hours in a session would have to have some distance?
l
cheers

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geared4knots said...

C,mon guys, settle down. I think Kaz has allready done 50,80,100 without recording on the gps WITHOUT ANY training.
she often sails a lot longer than most.
Anyone who sails consistently for 4-5 hours in a session would have to have some distance?
l
cheers

I reckon if Kazza sailed for that length of time, she would pass 150km

p.s I went for a run tonight, sailing is sooooooo much easier..

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Jezstrt said...
p.s I went for a run tonight...

Why?
Has anyone ever seen a jogger / runner with a smile on their face?
Has anyone sailed past another windsurfer who DIDN'T have a smile on their face?
Case rested.

Why? Jez just sit back and relax!

Don't apologise Kazza you created plenty of interest and we'll all help you get that world record, I clocked up 180km and the further I got the quicker the time went. The 1st hour was the worst from then on it got better...I'd like to hit the 200 mark, do it with me

Yer I know.. was feeling lazy with no wind about and I hate the gym!

I have a waterproof MP3 player, might have to use that when going for distance. Crank out some tunes from the 80s, Jez would like those songs

I was more or less taking the pressure off everyone that every time you go out and sail it's not a competition (but then we all do seem to have a competitive spirit in us). Meaning don't bust your body up (or your life) trying to be number one all the time, sometimes we need to listen to our gut feelings or......our body's.
As far as training goes, I'll get back to you on that one, I'll have a think about it all. But nothing better than actual sailing to condition yourself, my trouble is I get bored just sailing backwards & forwards, if there's a destination to sail too that gives one an aim.

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easty said...

Jezstrt said...
p.s I went for a run tonight...

Why?
Has anyone ever seen a jogger / runner with a smile on their face?
Has anyone sailed past another windsurfer who DIDN'T have a smile on their face?
Case rested.

Feels like crap when your doing it (running/jogging) but it's afterwards and the next day you feel good.

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Kazza said...

I was more or less taking the pressure off everyone that every time you go out and sail it's not a competition (but then we all do seem to have a competitive spirit in us). Meaning don't bust your body up (or your life) trying to be number one all the time, sometimes we need to listen to our gut feelings or......our body's.
As far as training goes, I'll get back to you on that one, I'll have a think about it all. But nothing better than actual sailing to condition yourself, my trouble is I get bored just sailing backwards & forwards, if there's a destination to sail too that gives one an aim.

Yeh right Kaz, you were having ago at me! Thats why I think you were speaking crap. You obviously think I'm busting my body and my life by trying to do my best in the conditions available everytime I go out.
You obviously know jack Sh#t about me if you view it that way and I think maybe you should really think about what your saying before preaching to those that want to push themselves (of which I always thought you were one of)
Everybodys different and we all need different approaches to reach our goals.
You are useing me as an example for your limitations and if you cant see that, then you need to have a close look at your original post.
If everyone out there thinks I'm harping on about this, then your right. I'm dissapointed that Kazza has these views of me and what I'm doing to my body and my life.
The only ruining of my body I've done is from trying to freestyle last Easter. Torn and fractured ankle.
Since September I've sailed well over 5200km with no injuries and my quality of life is better than ever. As far as fitness goes, I dont need to go the gym, because during trhe off season I ride and train endurance horse(sometimes) and go surfing/SUP when I can and also sail if the conditions are there. I also dont live in suburbia where you go home to the confines of your house and a quiet stroll along the beach or streets. I live on 6 acres and clock up km's everyday just doing what I have to around the place.
Why is this about me you ask!
Because Kazz you quoted me and said I was doing a great job of wrecking my body.
If you had of tried to push you athletic/gym views from another angle I most probably would have agreed with you fully.
But in this case you have questioned me and its pissed me off!
You have used me as an example and your wrong, I already lift weights, do cardio work involving aerobic and anerobic interval type training and have spent over 5200km since september conditioning myself to be able to physically and mentally handle whatever I push at myself, all without going to your wanky gym.
If you want to make a point use someone else as an example, not the person thats put in all the hard work to get there.

Peace, Love and Respect to you my friend!

Oh! and P.S. Everytime you go to the gym your putting yourself in a situation where you can wreck your body. More injuries happen in the gym than drinking in the car park with your mates!

Sorry Buzzy but I wasn't talking about you or using you as an example. I think you are amazing as to what you can do, obviously a very gifted and determined athlete and with all your sailing hours your strong and doesn't affect you physically and this is what you want to be and do. Be the best you can be.
I'm just taking the pressure off by saying that I find treating every sailing session as a competition to stay out there the longest and the longest km's for us others (probably just myself) a good way to get injuries. I find if I stay out there way past my use by date I feel weak, light headed and a danger to myself, so I aint staying out there when I'm feeling like that, lifes too short and I want to keep the old bod going for as long as I can and I especially hate not being able to sail because of an injury.

Well I've had a little think about some exercises that should probably help to build the stamina over winter for the bbiiigggg distance sail. If you think about what fatigues the quickest (definitely with slalom & speed sailing) is the quadriceps, the muscles at the front of the thigh. 3 sets of 15 leg squats a day or when you can be bothered, doesn't have to be with weights also sitting against a wall, back flat against the wall and legs bent like your sitting in a chair and hold that position for as long as you can a couple of times a week (those thighs will burn). If you can go use weights, seated row machine is a typical windsurfing movement (I get to do this all day every day screen printing). Bicep curls, Lat pull downs, push ups. For the ticker, a good fast pace walk each day or so for 30 minutes, or run/jog (but build running up slowly), 10 mins first couple of days, then up to 20 mins, then 30 then what ever takes your fancy. I've found running is the most injury prone exercise I've ever done if you start too much too soon. Then because all those muscles you've worked out have been contacted, they need to be now lengthened back out with some stretching. Doesn't take too much time out of the day if your busy with life.
And sailing as Kaleb says is the best conditioning.
My exercise routine for the week in winter is: Monday - 30 min ab class & Zumba class
Tuesday - run squad (mixture of interval training & distance running) Wednesday - bar or circuit class (weights) Thursday - run squad or spin class. Friday - Yolates (yoga/palates) or just rest. Saturday - rest/windsurfing. Sunday - Mt bike ride, paddle or windsurfing. But if I'm feeling really bugged through the week I just take the night off or 2 from gymbo. I find this a good all round way to maintain oneself so then ready for anything. Hope this helps

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Kazza said...

Well I've had a little think about some exercises that should probably help to build the stamina over winter for the bbiiigggg distance sail. If you think about what fatigues the quickest (definitely with slalom & speed sailing) is the quadriceps, the muscles at the front of the thigh. 3 sets of 15 leg squats a day or when you can be bothered, doesn't have to be with weights also sitting against a wall, back flat against the wall and legs bent like your sitting in a chair and hold that position for as long as you can a couple of times a week (those thighs will burn). If you can go use weights, seated row machine is a typical windsurfing movement (I get to do this all day every day screen printing). Bicep curls, Lat pull downs, push ups. For the ticker, a good fast pace walk each day or so for 30 minutes, or run/jog (but build running up slowly), 10 mins first couple of days, then up to 20 mins, then 30 then what ever takes your fancy. I've found running is the most injury prone exercise I've ever done if you start too much too soon. Then because all those muscles you've worked out have been contacted, they need to be now lengthened back out with some stretching. Doesn't take too much time out of the day if your busy with life.
And sailing as Kaleb says is the best conditioning.
My exercise routine for the week in winter is: Monday - 30 min ab class & Zumba class
Tuesday - run squad (mixture of interval training & distance running) Wednesday - bar or circuit class (weights) Thursday - run squad or spin class. Friday - Yolates (yoga/palates) or just rest. Saturday - rest/windsurfing. Sunday - Mt bike ride, paddle or windsurfing. But if I'm feeling really bugged through the week I just take the night off or 2 from gymbo. I find this a good all round way to maintain oneself so then ready for anything. Hope this helps

Just reading that makes me tired and thirsty Kazza, must be time for the pub

Hope Kaleb and Dave both smash the current record when they both get a chance. Im keen to go for 300km first and focus on lifting my other categories.