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Haircut said...

would one of these be considered life-vesty enough to participate in the races etc?

The way I see it the racing regs say the pfd required is one dependant on race location. Moreton bay north of Peel Island is "partialy smooth" therefore a PFD 2 would be required. Mind you most people seem to use a PFD 3. Maybe theres some kind of exception to the law for buoyant vessels ?...@#$%ed if I know. The thing pictured looks like a PFD 3. If its a 2 it will have it printed on it somewhere.

so what happens when you rock up for a race with a long big board and its not 8 to 12 knots.It's blowing 25 knots? Still have to use the big board??????

The point with longboards- is they were originally designed as a raceboard- many came almost directly off the world raceboard cup circuit as production versions of the manufacturers prototype- so although they still keep going OK in 8 to 12 knot they do still go quite well in stronger winds- perhaps not as fast as some of the newer narrow focus boards of today but still quite respectable- particularly if there are varied points of sail- it appears that a lot of the newer stuff is very very good within its comfort zone but if you have to head in a direction not complimentary to the design parameters of the board then their performance can suffer.

Good point Richie. This is something that if a club like bayside were to look at getting involved with would obviously have to be addressed. I personally would love to see if bayside's membership base and services offered to its members could be increased. But with anything like this requires careful consideration of the organising group and not wanting to burn them out.

Some options could be

1. completely new class to be held concurrently with our current slalom fleet.
2. a combination of the 2 fleets ie as wind strength below xx knots is course racing and over xx knots is slalom (not my personal preference)

At this stage this is purely hypothetical, but seeing that we are discussing it - some feedback would be excellent.

One way events could be run is that on any race day the course race is run in the morning and then slalom in the afternoon.

Another option is that course racing is run on a completely different day. And regardless of the conditions if it is a course event it is a course event, and the same would go for slalom events.

These are a few ways it could be run - championships could be run for both. But as i mentioned earlier this could lead to the organising group doing a lot more work.

This is all food for thought, and as i mentioned earlier - there have been numerous proponents suggesting a resurgence of course racing, but to date little involvement. How about a yes no vote as a simple if it were available in brisbane would you join in?

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DAM71 said...

These are a few ways it could be run - championships could be run for both. But as i mentioned earlier this could lead to the organising group doing a lot more work.

between now and when you work out the best best solution the organising group can have a rest and those who are interested can go and sail with Handyman at Paradise Point, or with me at Cootharaba or with luke Baillie at RQ or at Darling Point. I have also sailed on ocasions on the river at Bulimba with the Brisbane Sailing Squadron.

RQYS and BSS sail on saturdays so you could sail your longboard on Saturday afternoon and still do the Bayside event on sunday "if the wind is there".

El Presidente can call it on Friday and there it will be!!
No organising group required.

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Richiefish said...

Haircut said...

would one of these be considered life-vesty enough to participate in the races etc?

The way I see it the racing regs say the pfd required is one dependant on race location. Moreton bay north of Peel Island is "partialy smooth" therefore a PFD 2 would be required. Mind you most people seem to use a PFD 3. Maybe theres some kind of exception to the law for buoyant vessels ?...@#$%ed if I know. The thing pictured looks like a PFD 3. If its a 2 it will have it printed on it somewhere.

Hi Haircut, I made a post that might clarify this for you a bit but it really is up to the discression of the organising body. I have pasted this below so you have the run down but I think you would be fine with that vest.

The lines for PFD's are a bit subjective and I guess it will be up to RQ. The AWA rules say it is up to the organisers so I know we used to ask the competitors to wear a PFD 3 based on the fact that we were in relatively smooth waters (PFD 3) and there was always a rescue boat on the course with courses being close to shore (hence an injured sailor would hopefully not be hard to get to quickly).

Here is the AWA's stance via their risk management notice:-
www.windsurfing.org/files/info/NSW_Risk_Management_Plan_Jul2010.pdf

And here is some general info on PFD's

"Lifejackets (PFD's - Personal Floatation Device)

Smooth Water
PFD types 1, 2 or 3
Except in a river, creek or stream, or waters contained within breakwaters or revetments if the boat has positive floatation** and grab
lines/rails and the ship owner has a positive flotation statement on the approved form.

**For ships not fitted with an Australian Builders Plate, a positive flotation statement completed by the manufacturer or an accredited marine surveyor or ship designer must be obtained and carried.

PWC require types 2 or 3 or a wetsuit with inbuilt flotation approved as PFD type 3

Partially Smooth Water
PFD types 1 or 2. PFDs must be worn when crossing designated bars in open boats < 4.8 m.

PWC require PFD type 2

Beyond Smooth and Partially Smooth
PFD type 1. PFDs must be worn when crossing designated bars in open boats < 4.8 m.

PWC require PFD type 2


LIFE JACKET TYPES
Type (Cat.) 1 life jackets offer protection from drowning by maintaining a person in a safe floating position in the water, with buoyancy behind the head. They are compulsory for all people on board vessels in the open sea. (However PWC riders may use a type 2).

Type (Cat.) 2 & 3 are suitable for water sports where the rescue time is likely to be short. They are not designed to keep a persons head above water. A key point - Type (Cat.) 1 Lifejackets are and have special buoyancy behind the head to maintain a safe floating position."

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tonymatta said...

DAM71 said...

These are a few ways it could be run - championships could be run for both. But as i mentioned earlier this could lead to the organising group doing a lot more work.

between now and when you work out the best best solution the organising group can have a rest and those who are interested can go and sail with Handyman at Paradise Point, or with me at Cootharaba or with luke Baillie at RQ or at Darling Point. I have also sailed on ocasions on the river at Bulimba with the Brisbane Sailing Squadron.

RQYS sail on saturdays so you could sail your longboard on Saturday afternoon and still do the Bayside event on sunday "if the wind is there".

El Presidente can call it on Friday and there it will be!!


No organising group required.

Tony are we on the same page?

You seem to want to send everyone away from sailboard clubs, that have the interest of sailboarders as their only goal. And I want to get more people into the sailboard clubs.

Why?

^ an interim measure?

Anyway, winter's coming so there's time to sort it out. There's interest (and some passion), nice start to the discussion.

H

Exactly --- An interim Measure --- to test the demand and do something rather than nothing while we get the numbers up. I have no hidden agenda. Like Handyman, I think it would be more fun for me to have other raceboarders to sail with rather than only dinghies. I haven't been on the WQ executive for the last two years because I want to see the end of sailboard clubs.

But it could be worth noting that the two raceboard clubs in NSW are a part of sailing clubs that sails other classes. All the people I met at the raceboard nationals were very happy with that arrangement.

There are many advantages to sharing resources with other sailing classes. That is why you don't find too many sailing clubs that sail only one boat class.

All the techno and RSX sailors all over Australia race at sailing clubs. I don't see that sailing clubs are in any way a danger to our sport.

Hmmm interesting reading but a bit confusing. I'm one of the guys who is very interested in getting into racing but I,m not really sure which way to go. The reasons I want to race include a reason to go sailing consistently rather than just when the wind is blowing (to lazy if it looks crappy). Improve my sailing skills and fitness, meet like minded people, have fun and I would also like to introduce my kids to the sport under a more structured format than just taking them down to the beach with me when its 20knots.
Tempted to join Bayside and join the rookie fleet with the current freeride gear I have which is probably the easiest & cheapest way to start racing. Also tempted to join RQ with the one design format, the consistent sailing regardless of weather, and the opportunity to get the kids into it, draw back is forking out for a RSX kit. Hard to decide which way to go, willing to spend some dollars on new kit just want to be sure I choose the right one. Perhaps I should do both, indecision ultimatley leads to inaction, I wonder if there are others like me that want to race but arent sure which way to go.

If some of you are not aware I am LUKE BAILLIE the RSX sailor at RQYS and I am a very young and passionate windsurfer. I started windsurfing at the age of 12 and all I wanted to do was slalom and wave sailing (like Robby Naish) Impossible. Considering where we live and the conditions we have.

When I reached my final two years of high school I thought I could go and race with the local slalom crew, I had perfected my gybes and found some good kit. My first day of racing quickly showed that if you did not have the correct equipment for the conditions the racing became very frustrating, hence why I went out and bought more equipment to keep up. This did not stop for two years this gear war where I thought I needed to have the best kit to keep up.

I have now moved on to the RSX the Olympic one design windsurfing class and that is exactly what it is a one design class, whereby everyone is on the exact same gear. That is you use the same mast, same fin same board, same everything. Even knowing it is not the fastest board in world or the best in the lightest of wind it is awesome because I know my gear has the potential to go as fast as some other guy¡¦s gear.

In the last couple of weeks I have been talking to the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron dingy and off the beach administrator about a new windsurfing format to be run out of the yacht club for the next season depending on interest. This new format would involve both slalom and course racing whereby at a certain wind strength we would change over. For example we would run course racing up to 18 knots then cross over to slalom (down wind M course or whatever is to be preferred) and would run this up until 35knots. They are literately willing to do anything for us and it was evident to those who went to the races on the weekend, like I am talking we could do freestyle if we wanted to Anyone is welcome from young to old, rookies to pros it doesn¡¦t matter the more the merrier.

I now have a few boards spare on the weekend if there is anyone who wants to give it and come down and see how much fun we have every weekend give me a call on my mobile 0423 520 679, I will be down there Saturday in the arvo after racing if anyone wants to come and have a look at the gear and have a chat [ļ]

So what myself and RQYS are planning on doing is having a BBQ at the yacht club where we will run like an open forum to see what you guys are thinking, the date is still yet to be decided, but I will keep you all posted on this.

PS sailing the gear is really good fun regardless of the conditions

We all seem to be get a bit carried away ,in brief these seem like posibly options

1.Join the race fleet at RQYS membership around $800a year (great facilties everything is done for you but higher price)

2. Do something through existed sailboard club cost $60 a year (but we have to do the work)

3 . Race at places like the lake or darling point club approx $150 a year (but will have to contribute to club running)

Hey Upthere,

Some great shots there. Thanks for the info too.

Thats me (462) sailing on my phantom 320 at the RSX state titles organised by Luke last year. It was good fun although I couldn't keep up with them. They gave me a consolation prize for being the oldest sailer in the fleet.

Good Summary Simon.

hi tony
I have bitten the bullet and i am getting a phantom 380, if any body is hunting for used raceboards this brief might help

F2 Lightning
This is a great board - competitive in all winds, it has a massive daggerboard, very similar to the Megacat, but nice rounded rails that can cope with the lift it generates. The wide tail means that this board still has a chance of holding its own downwind against the later, bigger volume boards.
Mistral Equipe II
The benchmark board, especially on the sea. It flies upwind on its sharp rails, has great reaching speed. Downwind there's enough volume to at least 'hang in there'. It was available with strong wind and lightwind daggerboards (though one was a bit small and the other a bit chunky). The slot flushers need replacing regularly (easily obtained, but hard work).
Mistral One Design
The Olympic board from 1996 - 2004, the One Design remains a good board, particularly for younger lighter sailors for whom it makes an excellent first raceboard. Heavier sailors might be frustrated by the relatively small daggerboard and low volume in lighter winds but they gybe like a short board and everyone enjoys sailng these in a blow. Mistral Pan Am
These boards keep on winning. They were basically hand made Equipe IIs, which meant they got an extra 5mm all round and therefore upped the volume. Very sort after, performance as per the Equipe II and a bit more.
Speed sailboards
Three main model the first one being the pro am , slightly softer rails , and smaller centreboard. Then came the silver spped 250 most popular speed with hard rails quick to windward. Then was the SSA speed same as ss250 but had a mast track that came back further

Cheers for that BC, I stumbled across this only the other day...


...& purchased it for $55.

Hey Everyone,

I'm Suellen and I'm the Marine Sports (Sailing) Manager at Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron.

Luke and I worked on getting the Around Green Island Marathon race happening to showcase the facilities that we have on offer and to also show what we can provide for the $$ involved with becoming a member of RQYS.

Yes, it's more expensive to join RQYS than any other club in SEQ. However, what you get for the money if definitely worth it.

I'm also a member of RQYS and have been for 11 years (I've been working here for 6 years), so am going to speak from a members point of view first.

1. Full membership is $830 a year or $76 per month. My phone bill is $95 a month, so putting it into perspective, I spend more on phone calls and texting then I do to be a member... There is also a promotion at the moment with no joining fee.

2. A season entry into sailing differs from class to class and the Sailing Committee is working towards eliminating this fee altogether. Fingers crossed that comes through.

3. When you want to go sailing you just rock up - sign on (and off when you get in) and that's it. You don't have to get involved in any other way unless you choose to (like Luke's Dad who is a volunteer because it gets him on the water).

4. There is soooo much open space! You can rig on the main rigging lawn (near the bar) or at the new gated facility near Loo with a View (Bay Lookout). That gate was made available to the board sailors so they can keep their gear secure whilst out on the bay. There are bathroom and shower facilities also available up that end and a portable BBQ.

5. Storage - you can keep your stuff here! AND, if more board sailors get involved with the club then they will work on getting a storage facility up the end.

6. After sailing you can just eat and go to the bar.

7. There are always safety boats available in case you get into trouble.

8. Full members get a 10% discount on all food and beverages all the time (with your member tag)

9. Every Friday night there is a members draw (currently at $1,600) and an attendance draw

Now I'm going to talk about the benefits from a race management point of view

1. We (RQYS) will organise all the events including:
Notice of Race
Sailing Instructions
Promotional Poster
Microsite (website off the main sailing page of the RQ site)
State or National Race Officials
State, National and International Judges
Access to 4 x start/finish boats, 9 x safety boats (RIBS)
HEAPS of marks and ground tackle
Over 150 volunteers on call who will manage the on water component
3 x Full time staff in the sailing office to manage the event on shore

2. Got kids? Get them involved! We have a Yachting Australia Sailing Academy available for anyone wanting to learn - Ages 7 to 100! For kids aged between 7-12 we have Sail & Play www.sailandplay.com which is a school holiday program designed to get kids on the water

3. Heaps of social functions for members

4. Funding and financial support for those wanting to compete on the international stage

5. Ability to run whatever courses you want!

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. If anyone wants to talk to me more about it then please give me a call on 3396 8666 (Wed to Sun) or just rock up and we can have a chat over a coffee (or beer or rum of whatever - depending on the time of day of course!)

RQYS would love to see more boards racing out of the club so why not give it a chance for a year?

One more thing... we don't care what kind of board you use! Divisions will be made depending on the number involved.

Suellen

and this one (please look but don't touch!)



...yes, new straps.

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tonymatta said...

Thats me (462) sailing on my phantom 320 at the RSX state titles organised by Luke last year. It was good fun although I couldn't keep up with them. They gave me a consolation prize for being the oldest sailer in the fleet.

Good Summary Simon.

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tonymatta said...

Thats me (462) sailing on my phantom 320 at the RSX state titles organised by Luke last year. It was good fun although I couldn't keep up with them. They gave me a consolation prize for being the oldest sailer in the fleet.

Good Summary Simon.

Magic, this has turned into a fantastic thread, great to see people looking at the positives and debating the options. In product development we call this brainstorming and in these sessions there are no wrong answers and the right solution evolves to hold its own based upon what is best for the project, in this case for windsurfing.

I think Tony's post above sums up what I like the most about windsurfing, a guy out there giving it his best and enjoying the experience regardless of the gear he is on or the ranking he achieves. Good on ya mate, more of it.

Cam123, let me is if I can take the confusion away, and this relates to all sailors. Bring your current gear to whatever venue suits it the most and have a go. If you have an RSX, Raceboard or Formula board then go to the venues listed that run course racing and if you have slalom, freeride or even a long board and enjoy figure of 8 racing then come along to the next Bayside meet and get involved. The great thing is you are really spoilt for choice, the problem is that not enough people are taking advantage of the fantastic facilities and services that these dedicated individuals are providing for us as a sporting body.

We had 4 clubs associated with WQ not too long ago and we are down to two. This is simply due to the lack of support we are offering the clubs as sailors and the fact that we sit in the fence and wait so long to sign up to the clubs that the organisers give up and pack it in.

Let's all take a leaf out of Tony's book and just do it...

Been so boring without wind of any kind; but this thread gives me hope thanks everyone. Just polished up the TIGA RACE (old faithful) If anyone needs some volunteers to bring some constructive direction; I've got plenty of spare time

One of the big problems I can see is we have a whole generation of very talented young windsurfers, many of whom have never had any experience doing course racing and are so accustomed to sailing only when the conditions are favourable- the essence of racing for me- is to sail in as many different conditions as possible to develop the best possible sailing technique in all condition. Board tune and trim is such a critical factor and to be able to get the best out of board and sail is a fantastic sensation- even if the conditions are not ideal. Last race- with PPSC sailing against lasers- almost no wind 3/4 of the race over and done with- position 13 out of 14 starters- not looking good- a significant breeze comes in, sythe through the fleet to second place- almost got first- just so pumped from that- fully powered up and flying. Had I not been out there because conditions were not at there best (as a matter of fact absolutely pathetic wind) then I would not have experienced the exhileration of the competition. That was second race for the day- first race- well not great at all- but that is competition.

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Upthere said...
[br

When I reached my final two years of high school I thought I could go and race with the local slalom crew, I had perfected my gybes and found some good kit. My first day of racing quickly showed that if you did not have the correct equipment for the conditions the racing became very frustrating, hence why I went out and bought more equipment to keep up. This did not stop for two years this gear war where I thought I needed to have the best kit to keep up.

Hi Luke,

I just had to respond to this, mainly for the reason that the so called gear war you describe is eternally repeated. Moreso it is the gripe of the individual that did not do as well as they believed they should have or hoped.

Now stating factual matters. You registered with Bayside in the slalom 88 division which is an 8 m sail max and 80 wide board max. You only competed for 1 season not 2, and the past 2 winners of that division were on fanatic falcon 105's approx 2005 vintage and 67 cm wide or so , and 7.8 north Ram's.

Furthermore the current open champion has been on the same gear for the last 3 seasons. You might know him he was the guy smoking the RSX on the weekend in an upwind leg of the Green island marathon; no mean feat for a slalom board. None of these guys has an open cheque book to change to gear for the sake of it, and they don't change it they are getting beaten.

So to re-cap "There is no, nor has there ever been a gear race for the top guys. As everyone knows it takes ages to tune your board and sail and fin combo. The good sailors spend what time they can doing exactly this and the proof is in their performance on the water. And for the rest of us we do what we can with what we have and have a bloody great time.

Now if your enjoying what you are doing great - but don't infer that if you don't have the latest and greatest slalom is not enjoyable.

Please see photo of our fleet having a terrible time.

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handyman0708 said...

One of the big problems I can see is we have a whole generation of very talented young windsurfers, many of whom have never had any experience doing course racing and are so accustomed to sailing only when the conditions are favourable- the essence of racing for me- is to sail in as many different conditions as possible to develop the best possible sailing technique in all condition. Board tune and trim is such a critical factor and to be able to get the best out of board and sail is a fantastic sensation- even if the conditions are not ideal. Last race- with PPSC sailing against lasers- almost no wind 3/4 of the race over and done with- position 13 out of 14 starters- not looking good- a significant breeze comes in, sythe through the fleet to second place- almost got first- just so pumped from that- fully powered up and flying. Had I not been out there because conditions were not at there best (as a matter of fact absolutely pathetic wind) then I would not have experienced the exhileration of the competition. That was second race for the day- first race- well not great at all- but that is competition.

Handyman, i totally agree. I for one am one of those people, having only taken this sport up some 10 years ago. I hope my 40 years counts me as one of those young talented individuals you referred to. Ultimately the issue is two-fold.

Firstly, there is little gear available for people to try without undue cost, this is regardless of formula, raceboard or RSX. That being said from my observations the raceboard is possibly the cheapest option, as you may not have to change rig components as well as board, and there is the slight possibility of picking up a board second hand, that will still be seaworthy. Now not being able to try these types requires that leap of faith, hoping that you will like it.

The second problem, is that when the wind is blowing - people want to do something faster and more exciting. I'm not stating that course racing is not exciting, I for one believe that it is most likely very intense in its own way. But i personally know a number of guys, that if it blowing 20 kts, will go bump and jump or wave sailing, or prefer to race slalom.

It will be interesting where these discussions lead to.

Darryl, Luke is just stating his opinion, everyone has one and he is entitled to his. Stop getting so fired up about this. You and the guys at Bayside are doing a great job but slalom doesn't suit everyone so we are exploring options related to course racing.

The main reason a division starts is because an individual or small group of individuals has enough enthusiasm to put some effort into organising some events. Luke is showing such enthusiasm so lets all get behind him. We have lost enough clubs through lack of support in the last two years.

There is a great opportunity here to attract a group of sailors who are currently not racing (course sailors) back into competition and also perhaps attract new players that are currently being lost from the dinghy fleet, into windsurfing.

Geez darryl do all of your posts have to be so inflamatory. I do agree that you can be very competitive in slalom 88 with one post 2006 sail & board (7.8 & 67-75 dependant on size).

But then if you look at our prevalent conditions here rsx or raceboard would be fantastic.

You can tell there is no wind lately, hey.........

Daryl Dudeyou'll love it Raceboarding has enough tactical endeveour for u to be interested

Daryl. Sorry if that sounded condercending and I recon you're a better slalom racer anyway, but don't u want to extend your sailing horizons?
Sure beats sitting around and waiting for the wind.

What size rig would you generally use on a race board. I know it's subject to sailors weight. Would you use the same size as on a slalom board or tend to rig a bit bigger?

Thanks Richie and Scott I thought I might buy one if it was wearable in those types of races

i like the idea of the light wind longboard racing at paradise point. i just haven't had much time on the weekend lately, or a big board. would be great if there was something to use already at the yacht club and all i needed to bring was a rig etc