So we had some good wind yesterday, brad got 42 knots wow I think i got 38 or 39 so a great day . I was wearing a garmin and a locosys ( brad was wear 2 locosys as he knew one worked but not which one) so i get out of the water the garmin immediately uploads to strava with me doing nothing at all what an easy to use system. The locosys I wait until i come into work today because the cable is here and what do you know it won't connect, i wire wheel the terminals it still wont connect. Lets just face up to it these things are a complete waste of time and money. I love the function and features, but they constantly fail how can we have a fun gps comp if you spend an hour getting mad at the computer getting stressed its simply not worth it.

Never had a problem with mine but I do carry a GT31 as backup

Very happy with my FR920/GT31 combo.
ive got to say Simon, you're a brave man posting that thread title

Garmin by the sounds of it!

Using a wire brush is asking for trouble

I have recently added a Garmin Fenix 3 to my collection of GPSs.
I have a Garmin 310XT, Two GT31s, a Canmore, the GPSlogit phone app and a GW60. Too many?

I bought the Fenix primary for running and cycling. But I have started to use it with the Windsurfing app whilst sailing. As Simon says it is a joy to use and the upload is automatic.

Some time ago I recall some discussion that the Garmin Fenix did actually use the Doppler method of calculating speed. However I cannot find anything to substantiate this. Does anyone have any proof that it is doppler?

95% of the time I post from the GW60 if that goes flat then I post from the GT31. I always carry them both in the arm bag.

During the session the Garmin gives very good information regarding each run and appears to correlate closely to the other devices. However when I have uploaded the Garmin GPX file to KA72 I have found that the 2 sec peak for the day can be quite different.

I havelooked at a couple of .fit files in gps results with doppler ticked and it shows results. What it doesn't have is the accuracy data. The gpx format my be the problem have you tried .fit?

My GW 60 will not turn on unless I connect to charger do everything cable first. It just needs this cycle for a couple secs .Battery is always full. I can then turn off , on and play with it for the session. I haven't downloaded yet , only seeing PBS . From what I've read it seems it has a lot of problems . My band is still intact but only a dozen uses old. Need flat water.

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Imax1 said..
My GW 60 will not turn on unless I connect to charger do everything cable first. It just needs this cycle for a couple secs .Battery is always full. I can then turn off , on and play with it for the session. I haven't downloaded yet , only seeing PBS . From what I've read it seems it has a lot of problems . My band is still intact but only a dozen uses old. Need flat water.

If you dont use it for 10 days it goes to sleep so you have to connect the cable to wake it up.

I had a creepy feeling it was me
PS : my toy is working perfectly

Thanks Decrepit, Yes I can see the doppler data in GPS Results when I use FIT files with the Fenix 3

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Simon100 said..
So we had some good wind yesterday, brad got 42 knots wow I think i got 38 or 39 so a great day . I was wearing a garmin and a locosys ( brad was wear 2 locosys as he knew one worked but not which one) so i get out of the water the garmin immediately uploads to strava with me doing nothing at all what an easy to use system. The locosys I wait until i come into work today because the cable is here and what do you know it won't connect, i wire wheel the terminals it still wont connect. Lets just face up to it these things are a complete waste of time and money. I love the function and features, but they constantly fail how can we have a fun gps comp if you spend an hour getting mad at the computer getting stressed its simply not worth it.

I also initially had connection problems with my GW60. I replaced the connection cable and through trial and error, I found that if you rinse the watch in fresh water and dry before connecting to the computer, it works every time. I also use a GW52 as backup.

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Simon100 said..
So we had some good wind yesterday, brad got 42 knots wow I think i got 38 or 39 so a great day . I was wearing a garmin and a locosys ( brad was wear 2 locosys as he knew one worked but not which one) so i get out of the water the garmin immediately uploads to strava with me doing nothing at all what an easy to use system. The locosys I wait until i come into work today because the cable is here and what do you know it won't connect, i wire wheel the terminals it still wont connect. Lets just face up to it these things are a complete waste of time and money. I love the function and features, but they constantly fail how can we have a fun gps comp if you spend an hour getting mad at the computer getting stressed its simply not worth it.

what Garmin watch are you using?

I'm not even sailing at the moment (due to some health issues) but I live in hope to sail again...... so my opinion does not count for much.... but.....

I have a garmin watch (mainly for step tracking and cycling activities) and it is so user friendly to use as stated by other garmin users in this thread. Does it have Doppler .... not sure. Does it have accuracy... probably not. Does my current GPSTC device (old garmin geko) have either of these features... definitely not. Can I post to GPSTC with the old device.... yep. Can I post with my garmin watch... nope.

I would like to see garmin and other watches put into the same category as legacy devices. Not usable for records or beans or whatever, but suitable for use for social sailors who just want a device that is easy to use and allows them to participate without having to buy another device that works poorly. This solution should keep everyone happy... those who think accurate results are important do not have to worry about an "inaccurate" device affecting records/results. Those who just want to have fun with GPS sailing can do so.

This has been done to death, please let it die.......or do the work and prove that without an error file xyz device is acceptable, reliable and accurate

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kato said..
This has been done to death, please let it die.......or do the work and prove that without an error file xyz device is acceptable, reliable and accurate

noooooo ! don't bring XYZ in here !!!!! next thing MW will be all over the place !!


ps : I love my garmin !

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kato said..
This has been done to death, please let it die.......or do the work and prove that without an error file xyz device is acceptable, reliable and accurate

Prove what the error file represents, its acuaracey and determine the exact filtering and averaging techniques used by each watch and we would have some where to start a comparison.

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JonesySail said..

Simon100 said..
So we had some good wind yesterday, brad got 42 knots wow I think i got 38 or 39 so a great day . I was wearing a garmin and a locosys ( brad was wear 2 locosys as he knew one worked but not which one) so i get out of the water the garmin immediately uploads to strava with me doing nothing at all what an easy to use system. The locosys I wait until i come into work today because the cable is here and what do you know it won't connect, i wire wheel the terminals it still wont connect. Lets just face up to it these things are a complete waste of time and money. I love the function and features, but they constantly fail how can we have a fun gps comp if you spend an hour getting mad at the computer getting stressed its simply not worth it.

what Garmin watch are you using?

fenix 5 plus , as much as its a sports watch its amazing how much they do they its also constantly displaying emails calls and facebook stuff lol.

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Simon100 said..

JonesySail said..

Simon100 said..
So we had some good wind yesterday, brad got 42 knots wow I think i got 38 or 39 so a great day . I was wearing a garmin and a locosys ( brad was wear 2 locosys as he knew one worked but not which one) so i get out of the water the garmin immediately uploads to strava with me doing nothing at all what an easy to use system. The locosys I wait until i come into work today because the cable is here and what do you know it won't connect, i wire wheel the terminals it still wont connect. Lets just face up to it these things are a complete waste of time and money. I love the function and features, but they constantly fail how can we have a fun gps comp if you spend an hour getting mad at the computer getting stressed its simply not worth it.

what Garmin watch are you using?

fenix 5 plus , as much as its a sports watch its amazing how much they do they its also constantly displaying emails calls and facebook stuff lol.

Honestly the last thing I want my windsurfing watch to do is to take calls reminding me I should of been home hours ago

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Simon100 said..

kato said..
This has been done to death, please let it die.......or do the work and prove that without an error file xyz device is acceptable, reliable and accurate

Prove what the error file represents, its acuaracey and determine the exact filtering and averaging techniques used by each watch and we would have some where to start a comparison.

You. Do . The . Work. .....as I stated.

My two Cents.. The whole idea I thought with this comp was to be inclusive and have some fun and bragging rights with your mates..It seems to me that the accuracy of the devices it taken to far (we post some times to 3 decimal points...) . The locosys is a great product for its accuracy , but it does has some shortcomings with it up loading etc ( I get many users coming into shop having issues with connecting and uploading to pc).
If the powers to be that run Gpstc could say okay if you can show them data (say 20 tracks) from another device and it is with say .25 of a knot difference to a locosys , then those devices could be approved . I know there are a few sailors that wear both garmin and Lococsys so put the tracks into a spreadsheet, it wouldn't be to hard .
Maybe we should only post to one decimal place surely that is enough.
I'm not saying its going to happen but what if locosys decided to end production then where would we be....

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kato said..

Simon100 said..

kato said..
This has been done to death, please let it die.......or do the work and prove that without an error file xyz device is acceptable, reliable and accurate

Prove what the error file represents, its acuaracey and determine the exact filtering and averaging techniques used by each watch and we would have some where to start a comparison.

You. Do . The . Work. .....as I stated.

A base line for comparison and a standard to meet would need to be established. A clear goal is the first thing required before any project is started or it just results in running around in circles with nothing gained.

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bc said..
My two Cents.. The whole idea I thought with this comp was to be inclusive and have some fun and bragging rights with your mates..It seems to me that the accuracy of the devices it taken to far (we post some times to 3 decimal points...) . The locosys is a great product for its accuracy , but it does has some shortcomings with it up loading etc ( I get many users coming into shop having issues with connecting and uploading to pc).
If the powers to be that run Gpstc could say okay if you can show them data (say 20 tracks) from another device and it is with say .25 of a knot difference to a locosys , then those devices could be approved . I know there are a few sailors that wear both garmin and Lococsys so put the tracks into a spreadsheet, it wouldn't be to hard .
Maybe we should only post to one decimal place surely that is enough.
I'm not saying its going to happen but what if locosys decided to end production then where would we be....

Agree, i really dont care if i get beaten by a 0.25 knot error that shouldnt have been there and it would seem that no decent gps reads constantly high anyway , maybe some a more jittery on the output but thats easlity fixed.

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decrepit said..
I havelooked at a couple of .fit files in gps results with doppler ticked and it shows results. What it doesn't have is the accuracy data. The gpx format my be the problem have you tried .fit?

The Garmin is as accurate as the canmore and for a fun competition it should be approved in line with requirements for canmore use.

Top 10 results from GPS results for a random session.

Garmin 920XT on left wrist. GW60 Right wrist.

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Cocky2 said..

decrepit said..
I havelooked at a couple of .fit files in gps results with doppler ticked and it shows results. What it doesn't have is the accuracy data. The gpx format my be the problem have you tried .fit?

The Garmin is as accurate as the canmore and for a fun competition it should be approved in line with requirements for canmore use.

Top 10 results from GPS results for a random session.

Garmin 920XT on left wrist. GW60 Right wrist.

Thats increadibly similar , now we just need to determine which one was actually the closest to correct what if the garmin was right and the locosys was actually reading fast. I guess the slightly slower garmin is just from only being 1 hz. I looks as good as the gw60 , well a bit slower but thats not going to get anyone upset.

I tried a suunto watch, it keeps giving me a max of 200+kph and other odd things. Guess they don't like windsurfing

Simon it's easy to see how accurate the GW62 is you just look at the accuracy data. The Fenix doesn't have accuracy data, that's the problem.

What I see here is one group of people who approach the GPSTC in a highly competitive way. To them, they want to know that their result and those they compete against are as accurate as possible so that when they win or lose, it is a legitimate and accurate result. It is more important to them that the competition be accurate then that it includes sailors who just want a casual social activity.

Then there is another group of people who don't really care about the accuracy of the result. They are doing GPSTC for fun/social and don't really care if someone beats them because their data was inaccurate. They just want lots of people involved by making it as easy as possible to be involved so more people are then included which adds to the fun/social.

The thing that gets me with this, is that it is possible for both to occur in harmony, and it is already happening. I am allowed to post data from my Garmin Geko without accuracy data to the GPSTC as it is allowed as a legacy device. I don't threaten anybody's records, because I am not quick enough. If I was and I became really competitive, I would get a better device. The rules say that my device is not eligible to take records etc. So if I do have an inaccurate result one day that someone thinks is suss, it can be queried and removed.

So stop asking people to prove the accuracy of a device if they want to use it.... This is just a copout because you know it can't be done and you think you have some slam dunk win on the argument. Instead just recognise that there are already devices that have no accuracy that are already posting to GPSTC and not causing issues and allow a lower requirement in device specification that has lower capability in terms of achieving records.

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vosadrian said..
What I see here is one group of people who approach the GPSTC in a highly competitive way. To them, they want to know that their result and those they compete against are as accurate as possible so that when they win or lose, it is a legitimate and accurate result. It is more important to them that the competition be accurate then that it includes sailors who just want a casual social activity.

Then there is another group of people who don't really care about the accuracy of the result. They are doing GPSTC for fun/social and don't really care if someone beats them because their data was inaccurate. They just want lots of people involved by making it as easy as possible to be involved so more people are then included which adds to the fun/social.

The thing that gets me with this, is that it is possible for both to occur in harmony, and it is already happening. I am allowed to post data from my Garmin Geko without accuracy data to the GPSTC as it is allowed as a legacy device. I don't threaten anybody's records, because I am not quick enough. If I was and I became really competitive, I would get a better device. The rules say that my device is not eligible to take records etc. So if I do have an inaccurate result one day that someone thinks is suss, it can be queried and removed.

So stop asking people to prove the accuracy of a device if they want to use it.... This is just a copout because you know it can't be done and you think you have some slam dunk win on the argument. Instead just recognise that there are already devices that have no accuracy that are already posting to GPSTC and not causing issues and allow a lower requirement in device specification that has lower capability in terms of achieving records.

There are so many holes in this it i not worth answering - AGAIN!!!

This is a case of asking a question and when you dont get the answer you want, you just keep asking it again and again.

You are still not going to get the answer you 'want'. Not gonna happen!

If you really don't remember the answers, go back and read the replies to the last thread you winged in.

Cocky2:
False statement.
No way to prove it. Your data is not any sort of proof. Again, you have had this exlained to you before. Same question, same answer.
Check the last answer again

Simon:

There is a way to approve other devices. They need to be able to produce the SOG error data to validate their results..

If you want to know how to do it you could try asking Dr Tom Chalko to explain it to you.

I doubt he will want to do so however, as he feels this is proprietary IP.

i can tell you it involved LOT of side by side testing over dozens of hours and many hundreds of kilometres, comparing the output of around 6 GPS devices side by side. And then it involved some quite special mathematics and computer programming that Dr Tom developed himself.

Anyone who want to go down that road is quite welcome to. Document it and prove it and then convince the manufacturers to include that in their device output. Go ahead. But be warned, better minds have tried and failed.

Of course, you could just build a device that uses the Ublox GPS chip. It already includes the error data/validation that is required.
Some people are already going down that path. Read about it is other threads on this forum.

To the other bleaters:

The bottom line is that without the error data, there is no acceptable way of telling if your GPS is wrong or not. Period.

Those who bleat that they are just in it for fun and don't care if it is accurate or not, have no regard for the integrety of the GPSTC team competition or the personal rankings. They are quite happy to stuff it up for everyone else because they, personally, "just don't care."

And next time you feel the need to ask the same question again because you, personally, don't care for the answer, just come back and read this again and stop being a troll and wasting everyones time.