It's a tough one. The GPSTC is fantastic but the devices for it......I pump a lot of money into my passion of windsurfing & sports in general, but having to keep spending money on approved GPS's that seem to have major problems (GW60) & they keep selling them just doesn't make sense to me. What is needed is an approved GPS device that's reliable & durable, so let's get this Motion pumping......

Been reading those topics for a while now...
Not really concerned as I had to leave my team on their own as I don't, nor will in the future, own a dedicated full precision gps (unless it fits into a multisport waterproof reliable watch )

But with our sport being such a niche market it's a chance to have someone like Julien putting his efforts into this device. I've been recommending it locally to the speed freaks, like I did before, (to my great shame when they all broke down), for the gw60.....

One concern though, is putting all the eggs in one basket. A part from old Locosys, If Julien stops producing (for whatever reason: wife said stop, wins lotto, turns to windsurfer LT....) it'll be back to square one won't it ? Or it'll be like post apocalyptic... only those with ancient working devices will be able to post ?

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byronmc said..
Hardie
People are ****wits some times volunteers created a wonderful program for us that has increased enjoyment and involvement in our sport.
i love it and am sooo thankful for what you have created.
For the idiots
Buy an approved GPS device climb a mountain and get over it. LOL

Some people in these threads suggest a few changes/upgrades to the GPSTC database/website to potentially make it more inclusive and increase usage - being careful at the same time to acknowledge the originators and the wonderful product they built.
The sky falls in and a lot of immature insults follow - you'd think speedsailors were mostly angry teenagers rather than mostly old men who should know how to engage in and welcome a civil discussion.

I don't see how suggestions that a product might be improved automatically means you are denigrating that product or rubbishing the creators or being disloyal in some way.
I can't think of many well-loved products that don't benefit from regular upgrades.

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sausage said..
From little things big things grow! A little trip down history lane. It's easy to forget just how much Hardie (and Nebs) has done for our sport. The man should be knighted,

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/2007-GPS-Team-Challenge-Begins-010507?page=1

Thanks for the link.

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hardie said in 2007..

Almost seems it was all in the master plan - mixing the not tooooooo serious with the extremely serious. Must have been my German desire for order ("Ordnung muss sein!") that wanted to sort them into two categories. That's what you get for not restricting participation to apes and robots, and then even letting foreigners play!

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azymuth said..

byronmc said..
Hardie
People are ****wits some times volunteers created a wonderful program for us that has increased enjoyment and involvement in our sport.
i love it and am sooo thankful for what you have created.
For the idiots
Buy an approved GPS device climb a mountain and get over it. LOL

Some people in these threads suggest a few changes/upgrades to the GPSTC database/website to potentially make it more inclusive and increase usage - being careful at the same time to acknowledge the originators and the wonderful product they built.

The sky falls in and a lot of immature insults follow - you'd think speedsailors were mostly angry teenagers rather than mostly old men who should know how to engage in and welcome a civil discussion.

I don't see how suggestions that something might be improved automatically means you are denigrating the product or rubbishing the creators or being disloyal in some way.
I can't think of many well-loved products that don't benefit from regular upgrades.

Well said.

The irony to me is that it is the seriousness with which people are debating and arguing that is probably driving people away from the GPSTC, it was for me.

Lighten up folks, there is no prize for winning, just bloated egos. We are participating in a recreational sport.

Wooow Laurie, selective censorship ??

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tonyk said..
Thank you Hardie and the team that keep GPSTC going,
I am a happy user, it's free and it's good fun
Same goes with KA72, thanks Dylan
I know you guys all work hard in the background so we continue to have the convenience of place to store our sports data and chat with other members
How good is the windsurfing community
If possible please keep up the good work

x 2

I've asked Suunto about getting their stuff approved (or if they are capable of it) through the national sales rep (for dive computers) but they are not interested I'm sure if it was running / mainstream sport they would be all over it but Windsurfing's likely too small of a market

when my Brothers spare spare (yes spare spare) GT-31 dies I'll get a Motion, so please keep the GPSTC going otherwise I'll have no reason to get funding approved by my wife / boss

The following is posted on behalf of the GPSTC:

Some significant changes are underway to the GPSTC website. It will certainly please some and probably not some others. That is just how it will be.

It won't happen overnight. It may take a while. But the plan and will is there to do it.

The changes will not be discussed in detail here as that would likely just fuel more arguments.

We will not be responding to any questions or forum posts.

Please, just wait and see.

I have one of the first gw60s ever made direct from lycosis, i then bought another as a spare about 6months later. I still have a bg31 all in mint condition. I store them in a padded hard case and treat them like the rest of my gear(with great care knowing it will be hard to replace).
I guess I'm one of the lucky one's with reliable devices that hasn't had any crashes or events to cause damage and it is a wonder how many gps units are out there and what percentage is a genuine fault and not neglected.
Who knows right.

There's certainly a good case for a bad batch of GW60 bands. One of the most meticulous and careful people I know had a band in bits, certainly wouldn't have been through rough use.

The GW52 is also very sensitive to water vapour, I had one die after there was some condensation on the inside of the pacqua. I put this down to using wet hands to take the device out.

And certainly the GW60 can suck water in through the buttons if they are pressed.

So I think, if you're lucky enough to have a band from a good batch, and make sure the GW60 buttons aren't pressed with water anywhere near them, and you keep the Gw52 bone dry, you may get a reasonable life out of them.

Love the GPSTC, a great competition and community.
Many thanks to the guys who set it up and run it and I hope you can keep it going.
We should probably be copying all of these strife postings directly to LOCOSYS to let them see what trouble their sub standard product has caused.

Love the GPSTC, a great competition and community.
Many thanks to the guys who set it up and run it and I hope you can keep it going.
We should probably be copying all of these strife postings directly to LOCOSYS to let them see what trouble their sub standard product has caused.

I'm not for or against, but just thought i would mention that if anyone is keen to post with an unapproved device and track their sessions, the GPS speed surfing site allows anyone to post with a non approved device for fun rankings.

www.gps-speedsurfing.com/

All session posted with a doppler device have this green icon -> In the last few years the quality of standard non-doppler GPS devices have improved a lot. For that reason we have decided that we approve non-doppler devices for the so called fun-rankings and day-to-day use. Altough results of non-doppler devices are often close to doppler-recorded session there is no way we can verify the actual speeds that have been recorded. For that reason we do not allow non-doppler devices sessions in our record rankings. More information about generic GPS Devices (-> www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsotherFor speedfreaks that already own a Android phone a good alternative could be the App GPS Logit, The App produces doppler speeds, at the same quality level of the old GT-11 .The App records Dopplerspeeds from the GPS-chipsets that are implemented in all recent smartphones, so the accuracy is comparable to a GT11, the only missing item is the Dopplerspeed-error (SDOP). For record purposes it is not suited, however, for fun rankings it is way better than e.g. positional data from standard units. (-> www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=App )All session posted with a non-doppler device have this yellow icon ->

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aussieboats said..
Just get rid of the wingers we don't need them . The best thing that's happened to windsurfing is the gpstc .

Stay strong

Mark , Your name calling is not welcome on a public forum. I personally thought you were above that level and am disappointed in your post. This debate has always been about inclusiveness of devices and increasing participation on GPSTC.
In particular why you do not sell GW60 any more?
Why not share some of your thoughts publicly rather privately with others.

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Cocky2 said..






This debate has always been about inclusiveness of devices and increasing participation on GPSTC.

Yes, but the word "inclusiveness " in GPSTC refers to the people participating not unapproved devices. ( Refer to the philosophy of the Challenge ). gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/about
You and others want to change the RULES of the Challenge. ( It is not a competition ) by including non approved devices. http://gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/rules.
When you applied to join your Team you agreed to abide by the rules.
Also the GPSTC is not owned by the team members. It is owned by the Hardie and Nebbian.
It is not the fault of the Challenge owners that the manufacturers have stopped making some approved devices and Locosyst have made an inferior device.

By the way this is supposed to be a Team Challenge but seems to me to have evolved into an individual pursuit of glory.

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Jacko51 said..

Cocky2 said..






This debate has always been about inclusiveness of devices and increasing participation on GPSTC.

Yes, but the word "inclusiveness " in GPSTC refers to the people participating not unapproved devices. ( Refer to the philosophy of the Challenge ). gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/about
You and others want to change the RULES of the Challenge. ( It is not a competition ) by including non approved devices. http://gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/rules.
When you applied to join your Team you agreed to abide by the rules.
Also the GPSTC is not owned by the team members. It is owned by the Hardie and Nebbian.
It is not the fault of the Challenge owners that the manufacturers have stopped making some approved devices and Locosyst have made an inferior device.

By the way this is supposed to be a Team Challenge but seems to me to have evolved into an individual pursuit of glory.

Well said Jacko

Yes, as far as I see it, that's the big mistake people are making, assuming some sort of democracy exists.
Things are far from ideal, but to expect perfection in this world, is to invite big disappointments.

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Jacko51 said..

Cocky2 said..






This debate has always been about inclusiveness of devices and increasing participation on GPSTC.

Yes, but the word "inclusiveness " in GPSTC refers to the people participating not unapproved devices. ( Refer to the philosophy of the Challenge ). gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/about
You and others want to change the RULES of the Challenge. ( It is not a competition ) by including non approved devices. http://gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/rules.
When you applied to join your Team you agreed to abide by the rules.
Also the GPSTC is not owned by the team members. It is owned by the Hardie and Nebbian.
It is not the fault of the Challenge owners that the manufacturers have stopped making some approved devices and Locosyst have made an inferior device.

By the way this is supposed to be a Team Challenge but seems to me to have evolved into an individual pursuit of glory.

Jacko we must be reading a different philosophy. The subtext in the philosophy has way more comment on social interactivity, fun, involvement of all levels with specific examples of non-competitive involvement and an overriding tone of growing the community. There is only a small mention of the competitive aspect. No matter how many times I read it, I can't come to any conclusion except that this inclusiveness is compromised by the ruling on an approved device.

And yes, we agreed to follow the rules. I think I did that around 10 years ago. The rules have changed in that time, specifically relating to approved devices. I may be a unique case, but I have only ever used one device for all my sessions. Until March this year, I was allowed to post to a session with this device. Since March it is no-longer accepted. I assume my old data with this device will not be removed, but who knows. So under current rules I can no longer be involved in GPSTC without spending a fair few $$. Not sure how that is inclusive.

And Decrepit and others correctly state that this is not a democracy. The GPSTC can proceed in whatever direction the owners want it to. I don't see anyone demanding change. But just because that is the case does not mean that people who disagree should remain silent. We are entitled to voice an opinion on what we think is a positive change for the GPSTC. I don't recall any person supporting change saying anything negative about the GPSTC owners or, the product or the devices that are currently approved. I only see people politely asking for change while presenting a reasoned argument for this change and without any expectation that this change is owed to us for any reason. We have an opinion that the GPSTC would be improved by this change and that if we ask politely, perhaps it will be considered.

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Jezstrt said..
I'm not for or against, but just thought i would mention that if anyone is keen to post with an unapproved device and track their sessions, the GPS speed surfing site allows anyone to post with a non approved device for fun rankings.

www.gps-speedsurfing.com/

All session posted with a doppler device have this green icon -> In the last few years the quality of standard non-doppler GPS devices have improved a lot. For that reason we have decided that we approve non-doppler devices for the so called fun-rankings and day-to-day use. Altough results of non-doppler devices are often close to doppler-recorded session there is no way we can verify the actual speeds that have been recorded. For that reason we do not allow non-doppler devices sessions in our record rankings. More information about generic GPS Devices (-> www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsotherFor speedfreaks that already own a Android phone a good alternative could be the App GPS Logit, The App produces doppler speeds, at the same quality level of the old GT-11 .The App records Dopplerspeeds from the GPS-chipsets that are implemented in all recent smartphones, so the accuracy is comparable to a GT11, the only missing item is the Dopplerspeed-error (SDOP). For record purposes it is not suited, however, for fun rankings it is way better than e.g. positional data from standard units. (-> www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=App )All session posted with a non-doppler device have this yellow icon ->

Thanks, Jezstrt. I've been using this site since my last GW60 failed. I like how you can track and graph different sessions with board, sail and fin sizes at different locations. We'll worth the paid upgrade to full member status.

The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

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greenleader said..
The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

Commencing speed run GPS on. Take your nurofen and put your helmet on....

Obviously upset some people with my comments I want to clarify a few things.
I hardly ever post excepts for trying to help organise the NSW GPS/slalom racing and get frustrated my self with the amount of work required and debate sometimes if its worth the hassle.
Due to the fact its hard to get an approved device, the motion you can order now as I have and is the best option I do agree with being able to post none approved devices BUT my point was they are not allowed for the team or overall results.
Just tired of hearing people whinge I am all for constructive recommendations for improvement but there is a Big difference between the two. The only way to improve anything in life is take recommendations on board but not all recommendations should be approved either.
Hopefully there will be more GPS devices in the future that will meet our needs and people will come back to the concept of TEAMS.
In NSW racing we have always allowed multiple GPS devices for reasons stated above we want to make it easy low cost and fun participation we are not playing for sheep stations.
Have fun chill and enjoy what you have don't take life so seriously. chill baby chill.

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Richiefish said..

greenleader said..
The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

Commencing speed run GPS on. Take your nurofen and put your helmet on....

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Richiefish said..

greenleader said..
The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

Commencing speed run GPS on. Take your nurofen and put your helmet on....

Ground Control to Major Tom (ten, nine, eight, seven, six)
Non-approved GPS, locking on (five, four, three)
Check satellite positioning and may Huey be with you (two, one, liftoff)
This is Ground Control to Major Tom
Your fin is sanded.....1500 grade
And the TC want to know whose GPS you wear
Now it's time to bear away if you dare
"This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the gybe
And I'm flying on the fin in a most peculiar way
And about to have a big off today
For here am I using a garmin
Reading far above it should
Isonic board is blue
And posting speeds I don't do

Though I'm past one hundred nautical miles
I'm sailing with great skill
And I think my isonic knows which way to go
Adjust my outhaul and back up the course I know
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your GPS's dead, there's something wrong
Can you read me, Major Tom?

GPSTC is a great service thank you Hardie & Co.

Everyone should just go for a sail and get back to what windsurfing is about - fun and community hey.

This is just another symptom of what's wrong in the world at the moment - too much focus on technology and not enough on just having fun.

SAUSAGE, thats an EPIC PARODY!! Are you the new Weird Al Yankovich?

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sausage said..

Richiefish said..

greenleader said..
The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

Commencing speed run GPS on. Take your nurofen and put your helmet on....

Ground Control to Major Tom (ten, nine, eight, seven, six)
Non-approved GPS, locking on (five, four, three)
Check satellite positioning and may Huey be with you (two, one, liftoff)
This is Ground Control to Major Tom
Your fin is sanded.....1500 grade
And the TC want to know whose GPS you wear
Now it's time to bear away if you dare
"This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the gybe
And I'm flying on the fin in a most peculiar way
And about to have a big off today
For here am I using a garmin
Reading far above it should
Isonic board is blue
And posting speeds I don't do

Though I'm past one hundred nautical miles
I'm sailing with great skill
And I think my isonic knows which way to go
Adjust my outhaul and back up the course I know
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your GPS's dead, there's something wrong
Can you read me, Major Tom?

Oh you silly Sausage..You've still got it.

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sausage said..

Richiefish said..

greenleader said..
The best thing about launching a club type website is realising that unless you have total control.....you are floating in a sea of contempt that you have no control over....ground control to major tom.....

Commencing speed run GPS on. Take your nurofen and put your helmet on....

Ground Control to Major Tom (ten, nine, eight, seven, six)
Non-approved GPS, locking on (five, four, three)
Check satellite positioning and may Huey be with you (two, one, liftoff)
This is Ground Control to Major Tom
Your fin is sanded.....1500 grade
And the TC want to know whose GPS you wear
Now it's time to bear away if you dare
"This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the gybe
And I'm flying on the fin in a most peculiar way
And about to have a big off today
For here am I using a garmin
Reading far above it should
Isonic board is blue
And posting speeds I don't do

Though I'm past one hundred nautical miles
I'm sailing with great skill
And I think my isonic knows which way to go
Adjust my outhaul and back up the course I know
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your GPS's dead, there's something wrong
Can you read me, Major Tom?

Here, am I sitting in my lounge room
Watching TV
All my muscles sore and
Windsurfing keeps me poor.

guitar bit.

^^^ BUT HOW IS THAT BUZZ ??
Nothing comes close.