My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing humans to be involved, as usual human politics is ruining the original concept of the GPSTC, and it is now very clear to me that I should've restricted it to Robots and Apes.

I remember running an in-patient psychotherapy group for Veterans with severe PTSD. The war was still going on in their minds, and they went to war against me, and the organization I worked for. As a young therapist I was devastated and didnt know what to do. The senior psychiatrist told me he would address the next group meeting. The next day the psychiatrist addressed the group and stated he had listened to the Veterans about how dissatisfied they were with the Therapy Treatment Program, and that he had decided to cancel the program, and it would never be run again, and they could pack their bags, and return home. This created an uproar in the group leading the members to re-group and demand that the program be reinstated.

So unless I see a rallying and coming together of participants, I will discuss with Ben that we disband the GPSTC from 01/01/2020. I will ask that the data base remain our property and is not for sale or to be transferred to anyone.

You can start again from scratch and make up your own competition. All you people who think you can do better here's your chance to prove it.

So take your screenshots of your rankings and PB page, if you want any records of what you did on the GPSTC.

So either show me the GPSTC is worth keeping or I officially ask Ben to shut it down, and you cant have the data.

Ben has just agreed with my request.

Wow, I am curious about what has been happening, but not involved enough in GPSTC to actually ask.

I think this is sadly a normal human thing. I am a part of a group that organises outings with accommodation, at very cheap rates, yet you always get someone that thinks that they could do better or it should be cheaper, despite it being a non-profit group and people doing things for free, yet no one ever steps up to the plate.

Sadly, I think its never the people that create the most problems that ever step back and say 'it was me'.

Well that's just crap!! Why couldn't the stirrers just leave good enough alone. Only been part of this for 2 years. And what a great time I have had. I hope for everyone's sake this garbage is resolved!! I have been very grateful to be part of GPSTC and truly hope this doesn't happen Hardie

Been in it, on and off, since the beginning. I can see how it has come to this. Bugger!!!
but good on you boys for taking your stand.

Hey Hardz I'm feeling for you mate, the GPSTC is/was the best thing going, brought a lot of sailors together
I stopped reading the other thread, not interested, I'm waiting for wind so I can hang with my mates that I have met through GPSTC. Have a look outside, it's bloody beautiful, I'm off to Avalon Beach after smoko for a swim and head clear
Cheers Firie

Hardz you have my full support on whatever you choose to do, pity it has come to this as the GPSTC gives so much more than just the results, to me personally have met a whole community here in WA from Albany to Exmouth and a few Mexicans who have the same passion of sharing the stoke, the entry price for this is an approved GPS, such a small price to pay for what the GPSTC returns to you.

I know if it wasn't for the GPSTC I wouldn't have had the opportunity to sail in so many different places and meet so many like minded people who have one goal in mind enjoying the stoke.

ive been actively involved in this discussion and i thought originally it was a great way to listen to ideas and support speed sailing. There are some amazingly smart people who have been involved in GPS for a long time and some passionate people who have some new ideas. I feel now that it has become a "us vs them" mentality and people are hearing but no longer listening.... If I've offended anyone I'll be the first to apologise.

Hardie. being a leader sucks and theyre is always going to be someone who strongly disagrees with your philosophies. But.. ill stand by any decision you deem appropriate. If the masses find a solution then great but if the extremes keep fighting them it's our loss.

See you on the water...

It's still great Hardie !!!
Meeting heaps of crew up here in NSW who are still living the dream that is GPSTC. The community is still alive and kicking. At end of the day it's your call but don't let the haters win. The silent majority are just to busy having fun sailing , drinking and all that social stuff

Hey Red I'm looking forward to a hug and a beer

Select to expand quote

firiebob said..
Hey Red I'm looking forward to a hug and a beer

Lol...I'm looking forward to it!!

Hardie, if you're just going by the thread here, just ignore it, it's mainly an isolated few stirring the pot. Yes there are a lot of genuine people expressing their opinion, which they should be allowed to do.

The advisory group, is working through this, I'm sure we can cope.
The result definitely won't please everybody, that's an impossibility, the views are too diametrically opposed.
But one thing I'll be passionately fighting for is the integrity of the data base.

Please consider the amount of investment us volunteers have put in over the years, to just wipe that out, without any reference to them, would be a bit heartless.

I understand where you are coming from, I've felt the same, but there's so much good in this creation of yours, it would be a great pity to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Select to expand quote

happyjohn said..
I'm a gutless one post wonder

Select to expand quote

elmo said..

happyjohn said..
I'm a gutless one post wonder

hahaha Elmo, but I disagree. I think NOT so happyjohn has most definitely posted more than once and we know on which thread/s. Pretty gutless effort actually. Lots of petty name calling, you should be in politics, maybe get a twitter account like that other twit.

I for one would love to see the GPSTC remain active and hope that others who enjoy the camaraderie of the community now stand up and support this fun comp.

nooooo, I only just got the watch :(

I'll give it to everyone straight:

Everyday I deal with life and death issues, such as suicidal patients, grieving families, and patients with severe mental illness. I get really annoyed when people complain to me about trivial first world problems such as the imperfections of the gpstc and the subsequent squabbling. As a great leader once said "Do not bring me problems, bring me solutions". I deliberately set up the GPSTC using the principles of health and community psychology, as a way of building psychological health and resiliency in our community. Those of you who want to focus on all the negatives and imperfections of the GPSTC just go away and find something else to do. If you genuinely care about the GPSTC, then help contribute to finding solutions that have a general consensus.

Shutting down the GPSTC is the last resort, and I have many people privately asking me not to. Maybe shutting it down is way too cruel, which is not in my nature. The senior psychiatrist wasnt bluffing when he offered to terminate the therapy group, he had to make it real so they could value what they would lose.

The advisory group are respected people, who are volunteers, and should not be asked to do the impossible which is to create a utopia which makes everyone happy, its not possible. They do their best, so firstly back off on the nasty crap being thrown at the advisory group.

My personal preference is that the GPSTC keep going. For me personally, It would be an extremely painful thing for me to do to shut it down,

I hope you don't shut it down . It's a great resource, not just for keeping tabs of progress but as a social tool and getting to meet sailors from all over Australia.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
I hope you don't shut it down . It's a great resource, not just for keeping tabs of progress but as a social tool and getting to meet sailors from all over Australia.

Yes you are right would do more harm than good. I've had so many personal messages and complaints about the GPSTC of late, that I was reminded of what the senior psychiatrist did..............

Hardie, you're a smart man who knows how humans work and thanks for your honest thoughts on this continuing sage.. its better than days of our lives!

Feedback (both good and bad) on the TeamChallenge to move forwards we need respectful conversation from both sides. The people who have suggested needs or requirements need to listen to the experts who have experience and knowledge in those specific areas but by the same token people don't appreciate having their opinions shot down because they are different... RESPECT is the only way things will move forward.

So grow up, grow a pair and behave like adults...

I love the GPSTC and all the great people that make it and the top times and friendship it brings and I love the way it is and operates and also appreciate the rules and wouldn't change nothing!

This is my final reply for a while as I have just had some bad news about the health of a close family member.

I've had a a very large quick and positive response from most that count, and I will not request Ben to shut down the GPSTC.

We can sort it out, relax and apologies if I have caused upset or distress, I know its a harsh way to motivate people.

Now my energies must go to supporting family.

Just ask the whingers to leave or delete them it's simple these people ruin it for everyone no matter what sport you do you will find one.
Most of us are very happy the way it is I for one love it and the mates I have made local and on my windsurfing trips.
I run a big FB page and you get people who just whinge so if they keep it up I remove them from the group.
These people are not happy so they try and make others unhappy which makes them feel better somehow.

Wow Glynn, well said

Just get rid of the wingers we don't need them . The best thing that's happened to windsurfing is the gpstc .

Stay strong

Like many others, I am the beneficiary of the vision and hard work of Hardie, Nebs, the other founding members and current advisory group of the GPSTC. Keep up the good work and long may this community continue.

Select to expand quote

hardie said..
My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing humans to be involved, as usual human politics is ruining the original concept of the GPSTC, and it is now very clear to me that I should've restricted it to Robots and Apes.

This is utter disgrace what you have written here about us humans on this TC , here is my quote for you -

My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing HUMANS to CONTROL the GPSTC and don't care about the majority of us and our opinions and try to come to a better solution , but that is totally ignored because US HUMANS are too primitive , how sad !!!!!

Maybe we should let apes and robots run this site because maybe they will listen and try to solve the problems the best way they can or even better said that WE all try to help and come to a better conclusion .

And please don't write up rubbish about veterans of stupid idiotic wars they went through , my father and I are one of them and you do not have the knowledge to cure such barbaric ways we have to live through and NO one here can even come close to make an opinion about what they think is right for us !!!

I do not judge you as a person because I don't know you and its not my right to do so but what u have written here I am totally shocked and do not accept and my points are valid !!!


Boombuster said..

Select to expand quote

Just ask the whingers to leave or delete them it's simple these people ruin it for everyone no matter what sport you do you will find one.
Most of us are very happy the way it is I for one love it and the mates I have made local and on my windsurfing trips.
I run a big FB page and you get people who just whinge so if they keep it up I remove them from the group.
These people are not happy so they try and make others unhappy which makes them feel better somehow.

That is soooo unfair and ignorant of you to post , nobody is winging Glynn , its called rights to talk and ask and find solutions to the problem .
Do you see Glynn that majority of sailors are complaing that the GW-52 and GW-60 is a **** product because its built like **** !!!
For the accuracy YES I am for it 1 million% BUUUUUUT the product is a failure and it costs to much for such a product to fail and I can see that sailors are rising to the occassion that they don't want to buy this product anymore because its breaking down too fast and of course malfunctions occurring a lot why would anyone spend money on a product that they are replacing non stop .
The forums here speak for themselves .Maybe you and some others are the lucky ones that has a device that is working well for you and that is great but don't forget yous are not alone in this TC just keep that in mind and certain sailors including me are sick and tired of being screwed over with a **** product and WE all know that .

All the sailors that are using the GW52 and 60 have failed here in Croatia and they all had to buy new ones and also the majority of the new ones here bought have failed also , its becoming a big joke and I don't understand how certain sailors stick behind this product and again I'm not talking about its accuracy that's has been already clarified .

Now you can understand why sailors are asking for unapproved devices , not to have faster times and etc and etc but the product to last and to have certain good protection that it will last , imagine going through 3to 4 to 5 watches how much does that cost you!! is it worth it to buy when in such a situation , I certainly wouldn't and never will .

I can see on the threads that it is hard to get such a good allrounder gps unit and i can understand why but the units we have now are rubbish period and proven !!!!

Whats the solution to this problem well for a starters we have to put our differences aside and slowly come to a conclusion on what to do and how to come about it and for that to happen we need to join and make progress .

NOT making the admins GODS because they are not and they should have common sense to work together with the people and see what way we can improve the site and the products that are at hand to improve , its a long run but if you say nothing then nothing will happen .

Thank you Hardie and the team that keep GPSTC going,
I am a happy user, it's free and it's good fun
Same goes with KA72, thanks Dylan
I know you guys all work hard in the background so we continue to have the convenience of place to store our sports data and chat with other members
How good is the windsurfing community
If possible please keep up the good work

Hardie, you know that you have built a great thing with the GPSTC. We would have never done a speedsailing trip to Oz without it. The trip was the greatest trip I have ever done, and probably will remain that for the rest of my life. It was an honor meeting you, and really cool to experience the team atmosphere and friendly competition in WA and at Lake George. Shutting down GPSTC is certainly your right, but it would be a big loss for what probably is the biggest connected windsurfing group on the planet.

Despite getting to know you, Mike, Daffy, and many others, I still feel mostly like an outside observer. Seeing what looked like a discrepancy in the recurring posts, my scientist side took over and wanted to get some data to see how people feel. The optimist in me thought it should be possible to improve a great thing. I never thought we'd be able to stop all disagreements, but I was somewhat naive in not anticipating the discussion to become so heated. I viewed this as a scientific and engineering problem, and totally underestimated the "human factor".

One thing I noticed even before the current discussion started was a certain lack of respect in many forum posts. Perhaps a bit more respect in both questions and answers would help - both towards those who have invested a lot of time and brain power into the current system and rules, but also towards those for whom the question "Why can I not use my device?" is new. Or perhaps I am just naive and optimistic again.

Hang in there, Hardie and advisory group, we love you. This is not a democracy. You guys run it the way you choose. Ignore the nay-says.

I think most of us agree that GPSTC is just plain amazing.

Select to expand quote

pierre said..

hardie said..
My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing humans to be involved, as usual human politics is ruining the original concept of the GPSTC, and it is now very clear to me that I should've restricted it to Robots and Apes.

This is utter disgrace what you have written here about us humans on this TC , here is my quote for you -

My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing HUMANS to CONTROL the GPSTC and don't care about the majority of us and our opinions and try to come to a better solution , but that is totally ignored because US HUMANS are too primitive , how sad !!!!!

Maybe we should let apes and robots run this site because maybe they will listen and try to solve the problems the best way they can or even better said that WE all try to help and come to a better conclusion .

And please don't write up rubbish about veterans of stupid idiotic wars they went through , my father and I are one of them and you do not have the knowledge to cure such barbaric ways we have to live through and NO one here can even come close to make an opinion about what they think is right for us !!!

I do not judge you as a person because I don't know you and its not my right to do so but what u have written here I am totally shocked and do not accept and my points are valid !!!


Boombuster said..

Just ask the whingers to leave or delete them it's simple these people ruin it for everyone no matter what sport you do you will find one.
Most of us are very happy the way it is I for one love it and the mates I have made local and on my windsurfing trips.
I run a big FB page and you get people who just whinge so if they keep it up I remove them from the group.
These people are not happy so they try and make others unhappy which makes them feel better somehow.

That is soooo unfair and ignorant of you to post , nobody is winging Glynn , its called rights to talk and ask and find solutions to the problem .
Do you see Glynn that majority of sailors are complaing that the GW-52 and GW-60 is a **** product because its built like **** !!!
For the accuracy YES I am for it 1 million% BUUUUUUT the product is a failure and it costs to much for such a product to fail and I can see that sailors are rising to the occassion that they don't want to buy this product anymore because its breaking down too fast and of course malfunctions occurring a lot why would anyone spend money on a product that they are replacing non stop .
The forums here speak for themselves .Maybe you and some others are the lucky ones that has a device that is working well for you and that is great but don't forget yous are not alone in this TC just keep that in mind and certain sailors including me are sick and tired of being screwed over with a **** product and WE all know that .

All the sailors that are using the GW52 and 60 have failed here in Croatia and they all had to buy new ones and also the majority of the new ones here bought have failed also , its becoming a big joke and I don't understand how certain sailors stick behind this product and again I'm not talking about its accuracy that's has been already clarified .

Now you can understand why sailors are asking for unapproved devices , not to have faster times and etc and etc but the product to last and to have certain good protection that it will last , imagine going through 3to 4 to 5 watches how much does that cost you!! is it worth it to buy when in such a situation , I certainly wouldn't and never will .

I can see on the threads that it is hard to get such a good allrounder gps unit and i can understand why but the units we have now are rubbish period and proven !!!!

Whats the solution to this problem well for a starters we have to put our differences aside and slowly come to a conclusion on what to do and how to come about it and for that to happen we need to join and make progress .

NOT making the admins GODS because they are not and they should have common sense to work together with the people and see what way we can improve the site and the products that are at hand to improve , its a long run but if you say nothing then nothing will happen .

Spot on Pierre !!!!

people have to realise the problems and stop taking it personally.

Select to expand quote

AUS4 said..

pierre said..

hardie said..
My biggest regret with the GPSTC was allowing humans to be involved, as usual human politics is ruining the original concept of the GPSTC, and it is now very clear to me that I should've restricted it to Robots and Apes.

This is utter disgrace what you have written here about us humans on this TC , here is my quote for you -

not judge you as a person because I don't know you and its not my right to do so but what u have written here I am totally shocked and do not accept and my points are valid !!!


Boombuster said..

Just ask the whingers to leave or delete them it's simple these people ruin it for everyone no matter what sport you do you will find one.
Most of us are very happy the way it is I for one love it and the mates I have made local and on my windsurfing trips.
I run a big FB page and you get people who just whinge so if they keep it up I remove them from the group.
These people are not happy so they try and make others unhappy which makes them feel better somehow.

NOT making the admins GODS because they are not and they should have common sense to work together with the people and see what way we can improve the site and the products that are at hand to improve , its a long run but if you say nothing then nothing will happen .

Spot on Pierre !!!!

people have to realise the problems and stop taking it personally.

I agree with both Pierre and Hardie: humans are decent beings, but become monsters on facebook, in forums and when driving ...

From little things big things grow! A little trip down history lane. It's easy to forget just how much Hardie (and Nebs) has done for our sport. The man should be knighted,

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/2007-GPS-Team-Challenge-Begins-010507?page=1