I have had several people contact me for advice on Garmin watches. Whilst programming I put together this table, which may now be useful for those looking to purchase. All the watches below are supported (but I must add they have not all been tested). The further down the table the more desirable they are.

If you want to run the Alpha datafield you need a watch with at least 32 k memory. The 128k models will be the most future proof. If I ever get one then there is potential to write some more sophisticated code.

Personally I would avoid the Fenix 5S, Fenix 5s Plus, Fenix 6S, Fenix 6S Pro as the "S" Series is the smaller screen version which is not great for old folk who need reading glasses.

Garmin watches do many things, different watches suit different people. There are often great deals of up to 50% off retail price. If I had to buy a full price current model watch to run my apps I would choose the Forerunner 245.

Datafields 1 and 2 for the newer 32K watches now have the option of setting all displays to either "Nautical Miles per hour" which is the default or "Miles per hour" or "Kilometres per hour".

All data written to the FIT files will be in the selected units, however Garmin Connect will always display the units as kts! Oddly this is not configurable.

There is not enough free memory to add this functionality to the 16k devices.

I see there are some good deals from JB and Rebel at the moment
Fenix 5 is $449 and Fenix 5X is $559
I guess these are soon to be discontinued, but has to be better than paying $1000+

Hey experts - I have quoted this previously but when it comes to techo things I am much more comfortable with a hammer in my hand.
So can I please ask for guidance on loading the datafields onto the watch.
I have downloaded datafields through the Garmin IQ connect app on my phone and I can see that they are there.
I have a 735xt and have watched some videos on youtube which all describe changing datafields for running activities.
Do I just pick one of the activities on my watch that I don't use (like the "Run Indoor") and load the GPSTC datafields against that?
cheers
Troy

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spanishwog said..
Hey experts - I have quoted this previously but when it comes to techo things I am much more comfortable with a hammer in my hand.
So can I please ask for guidance on loading the datafields onto the watch.
I have downloaded datafields through the Garmin IQ connect app on my phone and I can see that they are there.
I have a 735xt and have watched some videos on youtube which all describe changing datafields for running activities.
Do I just pick one of the activities on my watch that I don't use (like the "Run Indoor") and load the GPSTC datafields against that?
cheers
Troy

There's an app called "Other" that you can use as your base.

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tbwonder said..
I see there are some good deals from JB and Rebel at the moment
Fenix 5 is $449 and Fenix 5X is $559
I guess these are soon to be discontinued, but has to be better than paying $1000+

Andrew thank you for all your work on the new Apps.
They are really good to get all 6 Categories on water feedback. Just purchased Fenix 5 on special to get Alpha as my old 920XT can not.
fenix 5 $449 + 2 loggers $320 = $769
GW60 $369 x 2 = $738

thanks

2 x Motion Loggers $320 + Cheap Android Phone with GPSLogit $30 = $350.

All Categories feedback Plus it actually Talks my speed to me in real time, and the last run as I gybe or stop!

How good is that!

Not knocking the Garmin watch and app though. Good for those who want it and can afford it. .

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sailquik said..
Not knocking the Garmin watch and app though. Good for those who want it and can afford it. .

Yes Andrew Garmin watches are expensive. But they are a top quality product. The product refinement is excellent. To me it is a GPS, a smart watch, a heart rate monitor, a barometer, an accelerometer, a compass, to others it is many other things.

It's always there on your wrist ready to go. It is genuinely waterproof and has a great battery life.

There is effectively no upload process, it happens completely automatically. You stop your track and the next thing you know it is all uploaded to Garmin Connect.

Garmin Connect stores all your tracks for free, you can keep them private, or share them with friends or with everyone. You can request Garmin to send you every single piece of data that they have in your account. I have done this in order to create my own heat maps with over 2000 tracks I have recorded over the last 11 years.

It is fully configurable with watch faces, apps and datafields.

The reliability is fantastic, I am on my second Garmin watch, the first one was still going strong after 9 years.
I'm not knocking GPSLogit on a phone, for some it is a good solution. But I like my Garmin.


A tiny section of my heat map, this is one of our local mountain biking areas

Yep... many people here just don't get what the Garmin watch can do. I have mine on my wrist daily (24/7) and it records many aspects of my health. I use it for CC payments so I don't need to carry a phone or wallet on a run but can get a drink/snack. It is used for many sports... not just to add feedback for windsurfing (I use it for cycling, swimming, running also). It is genuinely water proof and no hassle wireless and has great battery life. Really for all the other uses, most people who use a Garmin consider that the windsurfing feedback is just a free add-on.

Of course many people don't need or want the extra stuff, and that is fine... but that is what the cost of the Garmin is related to. If you don't want to use all that and prefer to hack together some other solution that is cheaper... go for it. But it is unlikely any hacked solution could be as seamless and easy.... arrive at water.... press a couple of buttons on the device already on your wrist. Sail. Press a few more buttons when your done.... activity uploaded!

Yes Adrian, and it's a big shame that Garmin have all this technological expertise and investment and they still choose not to have their watches to produce decently accurate Doppler speed or any accompanying validation data, not even just the satellites used!

I think it all boils down to the fact that for all of their target sports, speed accuracy is just not needed, and those sports needs are served very well with the positional data they do produce. Even high level positional accuracy is just not that critical for most of those sports.

Unfortunately, speed windsurfing is such a tiny fraction of the potential ,market for them that it is of no interest, and it does not make economic sense to cater for it..

Sad for us, but perfectly understandable.

I agree with all you have to say.... except that I find the Garmin product perfectly acceptable for my needs in windsurfing except for one thing... not accepted by GPSTC.

The quality of the data is perfectly fine for my requirements. I don't need 0.0000001% speed accuracy. I am not trying to set records. I do use the garmin for records in cycling on Strava. It is frustrating sometimes when I lose a KOM (record) when someone with a phone with poor GPS data takes it. But Strava does have a method to deal with this... and all record data is public so you can check other data yourself and flag it if it is sus. Strava does not attempt high accuracy levels as timing of a segment starts on the first GPS sample within the segment and ends on the last... so if you have a low GPS sample rate you get faster times! Not normally an issue on long segments which are many minutes rather than seconds. You normally have a +/-3 second accuracy which is not great for a 15 seconds segment.

Anyway, this thread was for Garmin use as a secondary... non GPSTC device. It is perfect for that... especially for those already using a garmin for other uses.

And I use my phone and GT 31 for bike riding

Personally I would not like to upload all my fitness metrics, location etc. to a company's database

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powersloshin said..
Personally I would not like to upload all my fitness metrics, location etc. to a company's database

There is no requirement to upload anything to Garmin Connect and if you do you can set the level of public visibility.
If you don't want Garmin to see your heart rate or other data you can turn all that stuff off.
If you want to keep things private, the files can be manually copied from the watch and processed completely offline any way you like.
Everybody has a different level of comfort when it comes to sharing their personal data.

I see that you are happy to upload your location to KA72 for all the world to see.

I just think it will be great when the GPSTC finish the site upgrades allowing the Garmin's. Then everybody can start playing nicely together again.

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DarrylG said..
I just think it will be great when the GPSTC finish the site upgrades allowing the Garmin's. Then everybody can start playing nicely together again.

I think we are already playing nicely together.
The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC.
Just to be clear I have always strongly supported GPSTC admin in not allowing Garmins to be used for posting.

Actually there are quite a lot of garmin owners waiting to be "included" in a second teir of GPSTC as promissed.

As requested we wait patiently and quietly - but we havn't gone away.

Thanks for the Data fields - love it !

BTW I have a tin foil hat at hand ready incase a company wants to steal my anonymous postings to use to spread another virus.

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tbwonder said..

DarrylG said..
I just think it will be great when the GPSTC finish the site upgrades allowing the Garmin's. Then everybody can start playing nicely together again.

I think we are already playing nicely together.
The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC.
Just to be clear I have always strongly supported GPSTC admin in not allowing Garmins to be used for posting.

"The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC."
Not like you to be so controversial, Andy!

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tbwonder said..


I think we are already playing nicely together.
The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC.
Just to be clear I have always strongly supported GPSTC admin in not allowing Garmins to be used for posting.

I doubt that is true. Promises were made about changes coming and that it would take time to implement. Those with Garmins are quietly waiting for those changes.

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powersloshin said..
Personally I would not like to upload all my fitness metrics, location etc. to a company's database

It's not for everyone!

Sure you can use your phone and other devices (or no devices) that are private if you that way inclined. But you only have to look at the number of people using fitness watches of various brands to know they are VERY popular with A LOT of people.

Its great to have choice to use the device you want to use... or not!!

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vosadrian said..

tbwonder said..


I think we are already playing nicely together.
The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC.
Just to be clear I have always strongly supported GPSTC admin in not allowing Garmins to be used for posting.

I doubt that is true. Promises were made about changes coming and that it would take time to implement. Those with Garmins are quietly waiting for those changes.

You say they are "quietly waiting", I said "has quietened the call". We agree they are quiet.
I am not suggesting that GPSTC should not change. The more options people have the better

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tbwonder said..

vosadrian said..

tbwonder said..


I think we are already playing nicely together.
The new simple motion has quietened the call from those who thought Garmin Watches should be allowed to be used on GPSTC.
Just to be clear I have always strongly supported GPSTC admin in not allowing Garmins to be used for posting.

I doubt that is true. Promises were made about changes coming and that it would take time to implement. Those with Garmins are quietly waiting for those changes.

You say they are "quietly waiting", I said "has quietened the call". We agree they are quiet.
I am not suggesting that GPSTC should not change. The more options people have the better

So what does it have to do with the simple motion?

The simple Motion Logger is a very high quality, completely waterproof, 10Hz logger that is approved for use in the GPSTC and is only $160.

At the end of the session you can connect it wirelessly to you phone and upload directly to KA72. Simples!

I actually expected you would jump right onto this Adrian, as this seems to be exactly the functionality you expressed a desire for.

Andrew's Garmin watch App can be used in conjunction with it for 'useful' on the water feedback. That is the main point of this whole thread.

I am coming into this issue late, but what seems sensible is the notion of tiers in GPSTC, as has been mentioned.

"Official Tier" is for use only with those approved devices and by people who want to post their results as officially sanctioned speeds.

"Not Official Tier" is for anybody who wants to save and/or post their speeds, recognizing that these speeds are not officially sanctioned for international recognition. Here they can use any gps device they want, be it gpser, watch, or camera.

A continuing rule will always be that the device used MUST be posted with the results.

In any case, the whole GPSTC concept is fantastic. I hope it continues forever. With my GW-60 I can "race" with anybody in the whole world. With my Timex Ironman GPS, I can "compare" with other "Not Officlal" results from anywhere in the whole world.

Of course, this all requires a lot of effort in programming and debugging and maintaining. Many thanks are already due to those people who are doing this.

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sailquik said..
The simple Motion Logger is a very high quality, completely waterproof, 10Hz logger that is approved for use in the GPSTC and is only $160.

At the end of the session you can connect it wirelessly to you phone and upload directly to KA72. Simples!

I actually expected you would jump right onto this Adrian, as this seems to be exactly the functionality you expressed a desire for.

Andrew's Garmin watch App can be used in conjunction with it for 'useful' on the water feedback. That is the main point of this whole thread.

I know what it is, but tbwonder suggested it somehow quietened the call of those wanting to use a garmin and then suggested we were saying the same thing. I actually think the simple motion has nothing to do with the quitening of the call. Promises were made, so people are waiting for them to be fullfilled.

And... no the simple Motion logger is nothing like what I am after. I am quite satisfied with the device I wear on my wrist as I type this. I do not want to use multiple devices. I am used to my fitness activities being simple. I can walk/run/swim/cycle/windsurf and record my activities with a few button presses and don't even have to touch my phone/PC to upload. My data just magically appears on Garmin Connect/Strava. For the windsurfing there is an extra step I do later to export the file from connect and into KA72. Life is simple and this is more important to me than some perceived idea that I will be getting inaccurate data which I have seen no evidence of except occasionally when it was obvious and could easily be removed.

And I echo Segler's comments above. That is exactly my view including the thanks for the efforts of those who implement the GPSTC.

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vosadrian said..
......Life is simple and this is more important to me than some perceived idea that I will be getting inaccurate data which I have seen no evidence of except occasionally when it was obvious and could easily be removed.

Fine it is your choice to use whatever you want, and what suits your purpose, except of course, in the GPSTC competition.

But, the statement quoted above is totally incorrect. It is not "..some perceived idea (you) will be getting inaccurate data..".

It is proven scientific FACT.

You may not have noticed the evidence, but it is definitly there for those that study such things. A large number of examples of serious errors in speeds from Garmin watches (and other non approved devices) have been identified. Some of those errors were not immediatly picked up by the sailors, and were out by knots (not just small fractions of a knot). It seems that Ego can sometimes blind people to what to others are obvious errors! But many would have been difficult to confirm if there were not an approved device used side by side because (as been well documented many times) those devices don't save any of the other validation data that triggers error filters, identifies, or draws attention to errors.

But, I agree, it is probably fine for your 'fun' use if you are happy to take the results with a large grain of salt.

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sailquik said..

vosadrian said..
......Life is simple and this is more important to me than some perceived idea that I will be getting inaccurate data which I have seen no evidence of except occasionally when it was obvious and could easily be removed.

Fine it is your choice to use whatever you want, and what suits your purpose, except of course, in the GPSTC competition.

But, the statement quoted above is totally incorrect. It is not "..some perceived idea (you) will be getting inaccurate data..".

It is proven scientific FACT.

You may not have noticed the evidence, but it is definitly there for those that study such things. A large number of examples of serious errors in speeds from Garmin watches (and other non approved devices) have been identified. Some of those errors were not immediatly picked up by the sailors, and were out by knots (not just small fractions of a knot). It seems that Ego can sometimes blind people to what to others are obvious errors! But many would have been difficult to confirm if there were not an approved device used side by side because (as been well documented many times) those devices don't save any of the other validation data that triggers error filters, identifies, or draws attention to errors.

But, I agree, it is probably fine for your 'fun' use if you are happy to take the results with a large grain of salt.

Yeah, Yeah... I'm not going to get into it. This thread was not meant to be about the GPSTC. It was about how to best use non-approved devices. You should try to scientifically prove the accuracy of the devices that are approved!! May be a challenge without a reference 0.01% accuracy speed source. And then after you have proved that we could discuss the improvement in quality of life because of the extra decimal point in accuracy.

Suffice to say... I am quite happy with the data... and no salt needed!!

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vosadrian said..

sailquik said..

vosadrian said..
......Life is simple and this is more important to me than some perceived idea that I will be getting inaccurate data which I have seen no evidence of except occasionally when it was obvious and could easily be removed.

Fine it is your choice to use whatever you want, and what suits your purpose, except of course, in the GPSTC competition.

But, the statement quoted above is totally incorrect. It is not "..some perceived idea (you) will be getting inaccurate data..".

It is proven scientific FACT.

You may not have noticed the evidence, but it is definitly there for those that study such things. A large number of examples of serious errors in speeds from Garmin watches (and other non approved devices) have been identified. Some of those errors were not immediatly picked up by the sailors, and were out by knots (not just small fractions of a knot). It seems that Ego can sometimes blind people to what to others are obvious errors! But many would have been difficult to confirm if there were not an approved device used side by side because (as been well documented many times) those devices don't save any of the other validation data that triggers error filters, identifies, or draws attention to errors.

But, I agree, it is probably fine for your 'fun' use if you are happy to take the results with a large grain of salt.

Yeah, Yeah... I'm not going to get into it. This thread was not meant to be about the GPSTC. It was about how to best use non-approved devices. You should try to scientifically prove the accuracy of the devices that are approved!! May be a challenge without a reference 0.01% accuracy speed source. And then after you have proved that we could discuss the improvement in quality of life because of the extra decimal point in accuracy.

Suffice to say... I am quite happy with the data... and no salt needed!!

We did prove it and a lot of great work was done. Once again, if you want a device approved to the work and prove it.

It's not so much about absolute accuracy, there's a limit to how accurate domestic units can be. It's more about about knowing when units become grossly inaccurate. Without SDoP or SACC included in the data, there's no way of knowing. And any unit, especially watches, can become inaccurate. The underhand grip can be a big problem, especially in gybes. Arm mounted units can also give very bad results if the GPS slips under the arm.
My GW60 gave a 2s 1kt too high the other day, but because the SDoP went through the roof at the same time, I knew it wasn't believable, fortunately I had a logger on my head to give the correct number.

So yes, any watch can be over a knot out, and without an accuracy report in the file, you'll never know.
Personally I want to be sure of my data, even within 0.25kt is almost enough for me, but 1.0kt is too far out.

I have a 25kt alpha form 2009 that is a constant source of embarrassment for me. It was done with a GT11, using trackpoints as we did back then, but a doppler calculation is only 24kts.
But if you don't worry about being a knot or so over, (or under) then by all means, go without an accuracy check.

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kato said..

We did prove it and a lot of great work was done. Once again, if you want a device approved to the work and prove it.

Can I see the proof? I'd be surprised if the proof could survive scientific scrutiny. I am an engineer using calibrated laboratory equipment daily in my job so I know what it takes to get equipment properly caibrated.

My point being that you can go crazy with accuracy and I am pretty sure I could debunk the proof of fact claimed above. Everyone has their limits for what is acceptable and most do not require caibrated units for recreational use. I am perfectly happy with the output of the Garmin. I also think you have convinced yourselves there is more of a difference than there is.