I have been thinking about slightly different idea to artificial ,dig into mud Lauderits channel.

If you could make a long sleeve a meter or two in diameter, made of plastic, long for example 500m. Even something like heavy duty tarpaulin, PVC pip etc.

then filled with water and partly air. Long , big diameter pipe floating on the water then sunk , then to be re-floated and relocated at wish.

Such sleeve should create efficient wave brake.

Advantage is that we could deflate that sleeve a bit and two, relocate, swing to different location , according to the wind.

Ideal place could be shallow already big lake with clear wind ( Lake George, Cootharabe?)

If diameter is bigger then depth, we could just pump water into sleeve and that will anchor under weight on the bottom.

One sleeve along provide just ideal wave brake.

Two sleeves in parallel and we could create even super flat channel with additional wave brake outside.

I guess such artificial speed run could be feasible only as sort of commercial enterprise - somebody has to invest in material , pump the water, relocate and maintenance.

Small fee from user could be effective means to recover costs.

Municipal environment near by also may benefit from dedicated to the speed tourists bringing money to hotels and restaurants .

I guess there is not much technical problem to create such Artificial Speed Run, environmental opposition could be the issue.

I have even idea how to name it !

What about Sausage Run

Long sleeve don't need to be in one piece , 500 or kilometer long.

Could be created from 50 meters to 100 meter pieces easier maintenance and maneuver joint together .

they are called oil slick booms

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choco said..
they are called oil slick booms

That is good idea, that could convert all Greens opposition
We need to install this oil protective booms on the Lake George in order to prevent catastrophic ecological disaster in the case oil tanker hit ice berg, rupture , sink and release deadly black grease over our pristine Lake George water and shores....

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Bender said..

That is another great idea where space on sausage could be sold to advertising company.
Any sponsor will help to fund and develop idea

But Macro, rather than use plastic channel with a semicircular cross section why not go with the old slot car idea. Make the channel with a T shaped cross section. The hull can benefit from both the smooth water and the ground effect to be gained in the shallow horizontal part of the T. A couple of inches depth or even less would do the job.

The width of the vertical section in which the fin is running would have to be carefully selected for minimum drag. Too narrow in comparison to the fin width and you'll get a blocking effect, the fin acting too much like a piston. Too wide and you'll lose some of the ground effect benefit to the hull. I'm guessing about 5cm should be the right width of the fin slot.

Control should not be too much of an issue. The rider should try and keep the fin close to the lee side of the slot so the fin can a get a ground effect benefit against the wall. I'm hoping the fin will naturally skim close to the lee wall of the slot. To aid self correction, ( ie. self centring steering) the fin could be profiled such that as it gets closer to the wall the interaction pushes the centre of lift forward to bring the board back to the optimum line. Standard fins possibly do this already. There's only mm in this of course, but I'm pretty sure keeping the board in the channel will not be difficult, the rider would quickly gain the confidence to push hard, records would be broken.

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Ian K said..
But Macro, rather than use plastic channel with a semicircular cross section why not go with the old slot car idea. Make the channel with a T shaped cross section. The hull can benefit from both the smooth water and the ground effect to be gained in the shallow horizontal part of the T. A couple of inches depth or even less would do the job.

The width of the vertical section in which the fin is running would have to be carefully selected for minimum drag. Too narrow in comparison to the fin width and you'll get a blocking effect, the fin acting too much like a piston. Too wide and you'll lose some of the ground effect benefit to the hull. I'm guessing about 5cm should be the right width of the fin slot.

Control should not be too much of an issue. The rider should try and keep the fin close to the lee side of the slot so the fin can a get a ground effect benefit against the wall. I'm hoping the fin will naturally skim close to the lee wall of the slot. To aid self correction, ( ie. self centring steering) the fin could be profiled such that as it gets closer to the wall the interaction pushes the centre of lift forward to bring the board back to the optimum line. Standard fins possibly do this already. There's only mm in this of course, but I'm pretty sure keeping the board in the channel will not be difficult, the rider would quickly gain the confidence to push hard, records would be broken.

I am not completely sure if understand core of your idea. My concept is simple big heavy pipe filled with water that lay on the bottom and protect leeward side from waves. That create safe , wide distance , in the case rider loose control, could still avoid hitting it at high speed. Don't need any anchors, infrastructure. Could be installed and de-mounted in the minute. Any small boat could tow it to relocate position relatively to the wind. Something like Sandy Point on demand anywhere, anytime.I guess if successful there could be few around country compete again for users. There is still unresolved problem of wind , lack of such could devastate anybody holidayIf your idea is something like riding on the rail than always is a problem of high speed accident and hitting it, even with my pipe hitting is means serious accident so maybe some extra protection could be invented / implemented...

If pipe is made of tarpaulin soft type material and filled partly with air- the top may perfectly dump energy on the fall .Top of the pipe section reminds kids inflatable castle, safe for jumping and bumping.Bottom of the pipe is filled with water to anchor pipe in place and absorb energy of the waves. Water level in the pipe laying on the bottom is just 5 -10 cm above lake water level. That must me calculated and experimentally tested how high wave brake we need , depending also on lake depth.
Eventually whole cross section of such designed wave brake could be possibly patented by any smart ass. Few tricks must be achieved at same time : like optimal proportion height to width, cross section shape that stick to the bottom to avid drifting with wind and currents, inflatable top, easy to deflate , empty water to tow and relocate. Longitudinal placement of reinforcing ropes. That is quite a work for smart engineer and problems to solve yet.
One may use small pocket filled with sand at the bottom, another design could just use only weight of the pumped water to stabilize pipe on the bottom...

Amazing that someone thinks they can just come to your local and do what they want, I'm not sure the locals or the LG management committee and the dept of environment would be happy with that let alone the couple thousand swans the fishermen and the duck shooters.
the fishermen have a thing in parlement now to get another 2500 new net licenses at 2 nets each as none have been issued since the 80's

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jimbob SA said..
Amazing that someone thinks they can just come to your local and do what they want, I'm not sure the locals or the LG management committee and the dept of environment would be happy with that let alone the couple thousand swans the fishermen and the duck shooters.
the fishermen have a thing in parlement now to get another 2500 new net licenses at 2 nets each as none have been issued since the 80's

Hey jimbob,
I'm going apply to SA gov to pump all that lovely flat water out of LG and have it piped up here to Yeppoon


Ian K ,
Slot board racing - I like it!

i m guessing macro has never been to lake george. it really doesnt need anything to improve the flatness - just control the water level better :)

you dont want anyone putting anything into the water that could become a hazard . (well except for something to make the weeds beds nice and healthy)

When they were building the desal plant at Botany they had these long tube things in the water as a perimeter barrier.

the water was very smooth near them but it didn't stop the low frequency swell. so you had smooth water with gentle inclines and slopes. It got quite scary as you could get good speed but then you'd end up launching of the little slopes, it was hard not to get air!

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jimbob SA said..
Amazing that someone thinks they can just come to your local and do what they want, I'm not sure the locals or the LG management committee and the dept of environment would be happy with that let alone the couple thousand swans the fishermen and the duck shooters.
the fishermen have a thing in parlement now to get another 2500 new net licenses at 2 nets each as none have been issued since the 80's

Lake George is used as example. Could be anywhere where condition are right,. Anyway I expected that not technical but mental difficulties are the most difficult to overcome. Finding consensus where two or more people are involved is no possible this days. That is possibly way the closest artificial speed run is at the dead African end, which doesn't prevent enthusiasts for coming there every year.

Another option where Mr Jimbo could not oppose could be digging a trench on private desert dirt and filling with water.
Obviously much more expensive then simple plastic sleeve and not movable to adjust to wind direction.

I guess proved again that Australia is too small to find place and accommodate one 500m artificially enhanced run

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Macroscien said..







I am not completely sure if understand core of your idea. My concept is simple big heavy pipe filled with water that lay on the bottom and protect leeward side from waves.

Ok, no it doesn't have to sit on the bottom. It would float and be composed of segments. They could be realigned to suit the wind direction with small tug boats. They'd be filled with water so as to float at just the right level. The wave-breaking outer edges float just above water level and the T section is just below. You'd need a few anchors to hold them in position. Something like the water-filled road barriers but with the custom "slot-board" cross section.

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Ian K said..

Macroscien said..







I am not completely sure if understand core of your idea. My concept is simple big heavy pipe filled with water that lay on the bottom and protect leeward side from waves.

Ok, no it doesn't have to sit on the bottom. It would float and be composed of segments. They could be realigned to suit the wind direction with small tug boats. They'd be filled with water so as to float at just the right level. The wave-breaking outer edges float just above water level and the T section is just below. You'd need a few anchors to hold them in position. Something like the water-filled road barriers but with the custom "slot-board" cross section.

I am afraid that floating barrier will transfer most of wave energy , not absorb the lot. People that deal and observed how oil slick barrier works may know the answer how effective it was in dumping all waves, small and big.
Here is one of our witness how floating barrier works - almost useless.

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Waiting4wind said..
When they were building the desal plant at Botany they had these long tube things in the water as a perimeter barrier.

the water was very smooth near them but it didn't stop the low frequency swell. so you had smooth water with gentle inclines and slopes. It got quite scary as you could get good speed but then you'd end up launching of the little slopes, it was hard not to get air!

Possibly floating wave dumper could be designed and build , but I doubt it will be that easy without extensive research. Next will be needs for extensive amount of anchors carefully positioned and tensioned otherwise wind and wave will bend barrier into unusable snake, but anchor line on opposite site will create additional hazard and becomes completely useless when wind direction changes to opposite.

Find a place with reliable strong stable wind that's easy to get to, then work on a channel.

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kato said..
Find a place with reliable strong stable wind that's easy to get to, then work on a channel.

I know one already ( Sandy Point) but it is terribly far away. Beside I just dream aloud about Australia having the best speed run in the whole world.
Not even for me ( as I doubt I ever cross 40 knots barrier ) but rather people like you.
As we could see the latest distance was made on rather artificial Dutch lakes.
Beside nobody care about environment if it comes to building new mines or taking the only windsurfing spot to build super ship cruise terminal on Gold Coast.
But everybody is so concern if we want something simple like water filled snake ?

If we could build artificial speed run anywhere in Australia, what will be your preferable location and why ?
I vote for Queensland of course. Gold Coast or Brisbane vicinity in particular. Tourist accommodation already in place. Easy access to airport. Warm weather that allow sailing whole year without even needs for wetsuit. The only concern is wind , that is just not as good Victoria, Tasmania or WA could offer.

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Bender said..

Didn't work.


And definitly NO fluffing with LG! GOT IT!

And this is why.....

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Waiting4wind said..
When they were building the desal plant at Botany they had these long tube things in the water as a perimeter barrier.

the water was very smooth near them but it didn't stop the low frequency swell. so you had smooth water with gentle inclines and slopes. It got quite scary as you could get good speed but then you'd end up launching of the little slopes, it was hard not to get air!

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Macroscien said..


Lake George is used as example. Could be anywhere where condition are right,. Anyway I expected that not technical but mental difficulties are the most difficult to overcome. Finding consensus where two or more people are involved is no possible this days. That is possibly way the closest artificial speed run is at the dead African end, which doesn't prevent enthusiasts for coming there every year.

Another option where Mr Jimbo could not oppose could be digging a trench on private desert dirt and filling with water.
Obviously much more expensive then simple plastic sleeve and not movable to adjust to wind direction.

I guess proved again that Australia is too small to find place and accommodate one 500m artificially enhanced run

The Macquarrie Innovation Record team seriously investigated digging a canal in Australia for their machine 6 or 8 years ago. They decided it was too expensive and too complicated for them, and they were seriously motivated, 'can do' people working with a multi-million $ budget!

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Macroscien said..

kato said..
Find a place with reliable strong stable wind that's easy to get to, then work on a channel.

I know one already ( Sandy Point) but it is terribly far away. Beside I just dream aloud about Australia having the best speed run in the whole world.
Not even for me ( as I doubt I ever cross 40 knots barrier ) but rather people like you.

Sandy Point does not need it. It is still capable of producing world class speeds on it's day. I fleet of large bulldozers to smooth out the hummocks would be welcome though.

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Macroscien said..
As we could see the latest distance was made on rather artificial Dutch lakes.
Beside nobody care about environment if it comes to building new mines or taking the only windsurfing spot to build super ship cruise terminal on Gold Coast.
But everybody is so concern if we want something simple like water filled snake ?

A very good point. How about you see if you can get us the fleet of 'dozers?

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Macroscien said..If we could build artificial speed run anywhere in Australia, what will be your preferable location and why ?
I vote for Queensland of course. Gold Coast or Brisbane vicinity in particular. Tourist accommodation already in place. Easy access to airport. Warm weather that allow sailing whole year without even needs for wetsuit. The only concern is wind , that is just not as good Victoria, Tasmania or WA could offer.

It would have to be somewhere near shark bay or on the southern Victorian, South Australian or Tasmanian coast, They are the only places that get the regular 35-40 knots+ gales from a predictable direction which would make it worth it. One advantage of a canal is that you don't have to wait for the right tide and you could light it up to run 24hrs a day. I estimate a $6 million budget might just about get it done..... $5m to get permission and/or buy it, and the rest to actually build it!

I know, I'm machine-gunning the forum. It just seems like a good idea at this time.

This Place has some remarkable similarities to Luderitz, not the least of which is that they are both a long way from anywhere....

I recon a canal dug in the salt flats near Denham would have much steadier wind than Luderitz! Mal Wright, who spent his teen years there, tells me the wind can really blow hard quite regularly. You would think no one would mind much if you dug a dirty big canal at a place named Useless Loop !

Macro i would love it to be near us as well, but the facts are that to go as fare a building a channel you would need the good strong consistent winds and that isn't QLD. VIC, SA and WA all get what is needed. The biggest problem would be the greenies, but i believe if you lined the channel like the mines line there settling ponds you may have a chance. If you could find a old mine site that has been closed because the ore body had been mined out then you would have half the battle won.

Come on Andrew Forrest,Graham Laitt even Gina Rinehart we only need a little money some land and a machine or two and we could have 2 world class speed sailing venues one natural and one man made.
Its nice to have dreams!

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sailquik said..
I know, I'm machine-gunning the forum. It just seems like a good idea at this time.

This Place has some remarkable similarities to Luderitz, not the least of which is that they are both a long way from anywhere....

I recon a canal dug in the salt flats near Denham would have much steadier wind than Luderitz! Mal Wright, who spent his teen years there, tells me the wind can really blow hard quite regularly. You would think no one would mind much if you dug a dirty big canal at a place named Useless Loop !

I'll have to take u there one day Daffi, its a huge area, and there are many Venturi funnels. The Locals say South Passage between Dirk Hartog Is and the peninsuala has the strongest wind as the local venturi effect squashes the wind and they say the wind is 10 to 20 kts stronger than Denham, claiming 40 to 50 kts is not uncommon.

More effort should be put in to developing ultra efficient sails fins and boards where speeds of 50+ knots can be done in 20-25 knots of wind

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hardie said..

I'll have to take u there one day Daffi, its a huge area, and there are many Venturi funnels. The Locals say South Passage between Dirk Hartog Is and the peninsuala has the strongest wind as the local venturi effect squashes the wind and they say the wind is 10 to 20 kts stronger than Denham, claiming 40 to 50 kts is not uncommon.

Fine , We have first serious location proposal with serious strong , persistent wind in Australia.



The problem I could see is that Hartog Is is near nowhere. To get there with all our windsurfing gear could be expensive and time consuming venture.
Also any construction far from civilisation could be costly.

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sailquik said..

Bender said..

Didn't work.

Building effective floating wave dumper is not as easy as it looks at first glance. Few floating pontoons just rise on the swell are transparent to all wave energy.
To be effective the floating barrier needs to "consume" this energy. I guess from engineering point of view solving this only problem is worth billions of dollars in rewards. Imagine simple floating barrier that could protect shores , ports , small islands from devastating wave energy. Even marinas and onshore houses.I am sure that problem was approached thousand times and have already hundreds of solution and proposals (that I don't know nothing about).
I guess it must be some sort of mechanical/hydraulic or pneumatic device. It could use anchors and lines at the bottom to dump/ consume energy. Like a Newton law says you need to find a point of resistance to move the mass, alternatively could use same waves in different phases to work against each other.
I personally prefer the second as more elegant and promising option.

Do we have any examples of effective floating wave barriers already in use ?

I have few ideas , so before I present here, we could make sure they didn't exist yet...

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choco said..
More effort should be put in to developing ultra efficient sails fins and boards where speeds of 50+ knots can be done in 20-25 knots of wind

But the problem remains of uneven water. I have been recently visiting " ultra flat" Cootharabe lake and really have got a lot of admiration , appreciation for people riding it above 30 knots speeds.
Than unless you are completely separated from swell/ waves by - sort of high hydrofoil attach to windsurfing board I could not imagine anybody doing 50 knots there regardless how big or effective sail they may have.

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hardie said..


I'll have to take u there one day Daffi, its a huge area, and there are many Venturi funnels. The Locals say South Passage between Dirk Hartog Is and the peninsuala has the strongest wind as the local venturi effect squashes the wind and they say the wind is 10 to 20 kts stronger than Denham, claiming 40 to 50 kts is not uncommon.

Another approach could be building an artificial speed run in the place where wind is not specifically strong but present and persistent, from single direction.

If we go as far as digging a channel in the dirt , filling with water , we could go a bit further and set up artificial venturi structure. I imagine long fence / wall along the speed track with such configured shape that longitudinal funnel capture wind say from 10 - 15 meters heights and squeeze into our 4 meters mast heights above the water. Structure on the land work only in one wind direction.
For simplicity just imagine that we build along the track sort of long carpot. On 10 meters high columns supported roof only made of corrugated sheets made of steel or plastic for light transparency. Roof starts at 10 meters high on one side and at the angle finish 4- 5 meters to direct wind straigh into our sails.

We could go even further and make the roof of solar panels - that move should attract some saving/profits on Carbon Credits, please the Greens and "make a sense for being there"

When we build similar Venturi fence combined with floating wave barrier we could turn it to the wind at wish.

Don't forget the quality of the wind. Cold dry air has more energy than warm moist air so ideally you need a desert in the middle of winter or with very low humidity. Tassie seems to be the coldest place and Hobart doesn't get a lot of rain, it's the second driest capital city in Australia. You may want to start looking down there.

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Macroscien said..

The problem I could see is that Hartog Is is near nowhere. To get there with all our windsurfing gear could be expensive and time consuming venture.
Also any construction far from civilisation could be costly.

You do know that Australia is considered to be nowhere near civilisation?

Also, purchase of land anywhere near civilisation, will cost more than God could create in a day.