Because of my robust shape my harness rides up . It only goes up so far , I just use shorter lines .
I should try a seat harness , they say they are better ??

Either tighten the bar, pad it, adjust your technique by hiking out instead of crouching down.
Breathe in to let the harness come back down. Try another harness.
Main issue with seat harness is that once you get lifted off your toes, it's harder to recover from a catapult.
Depending on the seat design you may also not be able to set the harness (or at least the bar) to the side reducing catapults greatly.

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cald said..

Basher said..

cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

It is true, it is impossible to be in your "correct sailing" stance all the time, and as you said yourself at least when slogging it will put upward, and your body shape can help or hinder that. Also there are different types of sailing, I would suggest lightwinds and big rigs with high booms it is difficult to not have some upward pull on the harness, and in fact at times you want it.

Errrr. Nope.
I'd say look at the pros. They do not have this problem.
Nowadays we have world champion slalom sailors using waist harnesses. Sometimes those same sailors choose seat harnesses - for power and drive issues in certain wave or chop conditions - but the choice is never about the harness riding up and most choose the waist harness. for freedom and manoeuvring. The seat harness is now the second choice. .

Do it up tighter and get longer harness lines.

I have been using a Flying Objects Indie harness since the first one came out, has elastic waist band, it only ever rides up if i bail a big jump and pin dive feet first into the water. also has a sliding spreader bar which is awesome, shame they stopped making them.

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Basher said..

cald said..

Basher said..

cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

It is true, it is impossible to be in your "correct sailing" stance all the time, and as you said yourself at least when slogging it will put upward, and your body shape can help or hinder that. Also there are different types of sailing, I would suggest lightwinds and big rigs with high booms it is difficult to not have some upward pull on the harness, and in fact at times you want it.

Errrr. Nope.
I'd say look at the pros. They do not have this problem.
Nowadays we have world champion slalom sailors using waist harnesses. Sometimes those same sailors choose seat harnesses - for power and drive issues in certain wave or chop conditions - but the choice is never about the harness riding up and most choose the waist harness. for freedom and manoeuvring. The seat harness is now the second choice. .

You are comparing a recreational sailor to a pro, not to mention I'm not seeing many pros with beer bellies etc, and those pros also have every combination of gear, they're not out there slugging it out in marginal conditions too often. Not actually sure of what your errr nope was about, you prove my point, a fit competent sailor can choose either? errrr

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duzzi said..

letter made.

Oh well, my Ion Radium Elite 2018 just broke the bar ... struggling to find a replacement, Da Kine might work, but the harness had already the problem of freezing buckles ... so now following up on Leto's suggestion I am curious about Ride Engine. Ride Engine has a 2021 spreader bar and harness system that looks fantastic: no more straps! The price tag is a bit gasp inducing at around US $400 .... any feedback?

Just an update on my Ion Radium Elite and its broken bar. I ordered a Ion C-bar hoping that it fit and it did. It is a major improvement with respect to the original. It wraps around your waist, leaving just two/four centimeters extra web. It is probably similar to the mystic shown a few posts above, and it can be adjusted much better than the original because of the clamping system. And it all but eliminates any riding up. In my case the riding up was minor, it only happened if I found myself under powered "hanging" from the boom, but with this bar it does not seem to be an issue. Very nice upgrade! $80 (US) instead of $400 is hard to beat.

Looks similar to Mystic but I think that Mystic is a bit better quality. My hook is also kite hook but I really like it since I don't have to switch harness when doing both.

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duzzi said..

duzzi said..

letter made.

Oh well, my Ion Radium Elite 2018 just broke the bar ... struggling to find a replacement, Da Kine might work, but the harness had already the problem of freezing buckles ... so now following up on Leto's suggestion I am curious about Ride Engine. Ride Engine has a 2021 spreader bar and harness system that looks fantastic: no more straps! The price tag is a bit gasp inducing at around US $400 .... any feedback?

Just an update on my Ion Radium Elite and its broken bar. I ordered a Ion C-bar hoping that it fit and it did. It is a major improvement with respect to the original. It wraps around your waist, leaving just two/four centimeters extra web. It is probably similar to the mystic shown a few posts above, and it can be adjusted much better than the original because of the clamping system. And it all but eliminates any riding up. In my case the riding up was minor, it only happened if I found myself under powered "hanging" from the boom, but with this bar it does not seem to be an issue. Very nice upgrade! $80 (US) instead of $400 is hard to beat.

Looks like its upside down.

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leto said..
Looks similar to Mystic but I think that Mystic is a bit better quality. My hook is also kite hook but I really like it since I don't have to switch harness when doing both.

No idea which one is better. This is the first version of the composite bar, ION is now at version 3.0 and has in addition the Spectre bar in carbon composite www.ion-products.com/water/men/harnesses/spreadbarshooks/spectre-bar-windsurf-hook/. I got the first one because I was not sure the newer ones were going to fit a 2016 harness. The strap threading is different. That is supposed to be the windsurf hook ... for version 1.0 the kite one seems much narrower. Anyway the bar REALLY makes a difference (and no, Gas Hazard, it is not upside down.)

I looked at the link. Looks like ION's kite hook is just a touch narrower than Mystic. Can be used for windsurfing too. They have swappable hooks too. What I don't like about ION is that the hook mid application of force is all the way up. Also Mystic has larger soft pad.
Haven't used ION but Mystic bar makes a huge difference. Day and night. Love it.

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leto said..
I looked at the link. Looks like ION's kite hook is just a touch narrower than Mystic. Can be used for windsurfing too. They have swappable hooks too. What I don't like about ION is that the hook mid application of force is all the way up. Also Mystic has larger soft pad.
Haven't used ION but Mystic bar makes a huge difference. Day and night. Love it.

I use the Mystic harness, four-point with tension adjusting knob at the back. These are perfect and do not ride up towards the chest. I don't think that body shape affects their performance too much, perhaps if you were ultra thin, just skin and bones. Just make sure you get the right size for you waistline because the tensioner mechanism has a range of operation that enables it to squeeze around your waist. It could also double as a back brace if you are desperate!

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leto said..
I looked at the link. Looks like ION's kite hook is just a touch narrower than Mystic. Can be used for windsurfing too. They have swappable hooks too. What I don't like about ION is that the hook mid application of force is all the way up. Also Mystic has larger soft pad.
Haven't used ION but Mystic bar makes a huge difference. Day and night. Love it.

Well ... you have not used the Ion and I have not used the Mystic, so we cannot really compare, can we? But, yes, the new style Ion (2018 really) made a big difference with respect to the old style Ion (the 2016 I broke). That was the point of my post.

And everybody seems to have gone there: took more than 30 years from a narrow metal bar with little vertical support, to a wide, long and rigid (composite) structure that makes the harness as close as possible to a one piece structure.

Ride engine has the purest version, with the 2021 model eliminating straps for a rigid connection hard shell to bar. Probably in a couple of years everybody else will be there to.

Anyone who uses that style hook for windsurfing has a death wish.

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Mark _australia said..
Anyone who uses that style hook for windsurfing has a death wish.

Here we go again ... that is the Kite hook. Ion, Mystic, Ride Engine etc... all offer windsurf and kite hook options.

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Mark _australia said..
Anyone who uses that style hook for windsurfing has a death wish.

Here we go again ... that is the Kite hook. Ion, Mystic, Ride Engine etc... all offer windsurf and kite hook options. See the windsurf hook at rideengine.com/products/unity-windsurf-spreader-bar

Duzzi, I do think that the hook should be in the middle to distribute forces better. The RideEngine bar I cannot use and not because it has only little padding, but because their kite hook is triangular and I cannot use it for windsurfing. I do both but have one harness.
Mystic kite hook has very small widening (not triangular) and I actually like it for windsurfing as I often ride and do small jumps holding the boom with one hand and there is less chance of harness lines slipping unexpectedly especially in chop or when I twist my core more. And it happened a few times with my windsurfing hook. That triangular hook, absolutely agree with Mark is a death wish. big NO..

I have a knife there too , which serves two purposes: when kitting to free myself from the lines in case bad stuff happens and when windsurfing to do same if one falls on my head..

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leto said..
... That triangular hook, absolutely agree with Mark is a death wish. big NO..

I have a knife there too , which serves two purposes: when kitting to free myself from the lines in case bad stuff happens and when windsurfing to do same if one falls on my head..

One got to love social media. We are all saying the same thing: you do not want to use a narrow triangular Kite hook with a windsurf. The last photo I posted is to show the Ride engine harness, the hook depicted is the kite one and Tide Engine has a windsurf specific one that you can buy.

Knifes will be soon unnecessary, judging but what is happening in the Bay area Kites will completely disappear by the end of the season they are almost all gone now replaced by the wing thingies.

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duzzi said..
Well ... you have not used the Ion and I have not used the Mystic, so we cannot really compare, can we? But, yes, the new style Ion (2018 really) made a big difference with respect to the old style Ion (the 2016 I broke). That was the point of my post.

And everybody seems to have gone there: took more than 30 years from a narrow metal bar with little vertical support, to a wide, long and rigid (composite) structure that makes the harness as close as possible to a one piece structure.

Ride engine has the purest version, with the 2021 model eliminating straps for a rigid connection hard shell to bar. Probably in a couple of years everybody else will be there to.

The harness itself needs to be adjustable around the waist because there is a fair bit of difference in body shape even for those using the same size. Mystic has the adjustable knob to pull the harness tight around the torso. I haven't seen anyone copying that idea which is odd.

Duzzi, man everyone heard you and everyone knows about different hooks. It's just in my personal case I don't buy windsurfing hooks and since RE kite hook is triangular, I cannot use it. It means that I'm not buying any RE hooks/bars whatsoever until they decide to make kite hook like Mystic or less optimal, ION. ION makes cool stuff but if you decide to get a better bar look at Mystic.