Its a pity you can't get them anymore Mark, I also thought they were a great solution especially for somebody like me that flicks between Bump and Jump on Wave gear and fanging on Slalom stuff. I lost mine, left it at the beach never to be seen again. I ended up buying the Liberty harness which has worked out pretty good but wish i could get the hook a bit higher. I would have bought another Transit for sure if I could have. Maybe Severne can add it to thier harness lineup?? a lightweight version would be great as they were a bit heavy.

Speed seats.
I still have 4.
I even have a slalom seat.

Cool story bro

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Mark _australia said..

dhat said..
How high is what you call a medium and/or high hook?

At my surf spot (not really local, but I guess where I surf most) most people look like they have the hook quite high. Mine sits right on the navel and it stays there the entire session. I guess this is medium. Could be interesting to have a low hook alternative for light(er) wind days which are about 50% of my sailing.

In the past I have had the tendency to rigg too small (I'm 98kg). A better choice of sails definitely helped with harness issues due to better stance. I now ignore what others are rigging as an initial guide - just look at the water.

Again why I love the Transit harness from FO. Its a waist hook position, but tighten the leg straps and the one that retains the hook can pull it down lower and make it almost like a seat harness for the B&J or marginal days. And now they don't make it anymore

This one?

www.cygnus-sails.com/item-Flying_Objects_Transit_Harness.html

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dhat said..
I have found THE solution ...

... easier to have a healthy body weight and that solves the problem.

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JakeNN said..

dhat said..
I have found THE solution ...

... easier to have a healthy body weight and that solves the problem.

Ill try it next time I go for a session

Select to expand quote

dhat said..

Mark _australia said..

dhat said..
How high is what you call a medium and/or high hook?

At my surf spot (not really local, but I guess where I surf most) most people look like they have the hook quite high. Mine sits right on the navel and it stays there the entire session. I guess this is medium. Could be interesting to have a low hook alternative for light(er) wind days which are about 50% of my sailing.

In the past I have had the tendency to rigg too small (I'm 98kg). A better choice of sails definitely helped with harness issues due to better stance. I now ignore what others are rigging as an initial guide - just look at the water.

Again why I love the Transit harness from FO. Its a waist hook position, but tighten the leg straps and the one that retains the hook can pull it down lower and make it almost like a seat harness for the B&J or marginal days. And now they don't make it anymore

This one?

www.cygnus-sails.com/item-Flying_Objects_Transit_Harness.html

ah! tempted to try that one. For mystic experts, do you have any idea if the "Race Boa Waist" harness is a typo or if it has a higher hook position? www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/race-boa-waist-seat-harness-wind#000000

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dhat said..

Gestalt said..
why not just buy a seat harness with a mid to high hook position.

Suppose I didnt want to go down the seat route having had these before. I prefer the feel of a (lowish) waist harness but hated the riding up factor. Does a high hook seat feel like a waist harness or does it feel like a seat harness when transferring power? My solution definitely transfers power from the waist but it stays put. The sewn in shorts only keep it drom inching up over time. Ok maybe the seat part also transfers power e.g when hanging off the boom sub planing but it does not feel that way. It was definitely cheaper than another harness.

Dakine Reflex seat harness can be adjusted so the hook is just as high as a waist harness.

That's the harness I use. RideEngine. It doesn't ride up at all and that hook is a major contributor.

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leto said..
That's the harness I use. RideEngine. It doesn't ride up at all and that hook is a major contributor.

For me this is about the harness riding up after slogging. You get caught hooked in when the wind drops, or something like that, and the harness is pulled up. I do not have a problem if I am sailing normally. Why would a hook and a kite harness make a difference?

The pad spreads the load of the bar instead of twisting. More direct connection with more friction and control through hips.

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leto said..
That's the harness I use. RideEngine. It doesn't ride up at all and that hook is a major contributor.

I have the same Mystic bar and it is really effective at keeping the hook from moving up (or down).

Manuel7 and Philn. You nailed it. Want to add details... since the harness I customized a bit

A year ago or so my super old Prolimit harness almost fell apart and I started doing research. What I came to were 2 hardshell carbon harnesses. RideEngine and Mystic. Both were amazing but RideEngine was on sale for like $130 and Mystic was around $400. So I read some more info that Mystic basically copied (keeping politically correct) RE design and then it was an obvious choice which to get. Since I windsurf and I kite I also bought RE kite and windsurf bar. Then this summer I met a buddy on the beach who was wearing same RE harness and said that their hooks are junk and handled me the Mystic Kitesurfing Clickerbar. That bar, man... it's a dream. Makes a huge difference because it sits on the top of that big rubber cushion which has a bit more thickness above the bar and the wings (find pics online) go right into the sides. It doesn't ride up a centimeter and it doesn't matter if the harness is loose or not and it spreads pressure so so nicely..

Here is what i have for my 32.5-34 inch waist (given I add thick winter wetsuit...

Ride hardshell Carbon Engine Harness - SMALL
(I ordered S and M but left S and M wasn't as snug. Hardsheell also spreads load so nicely that you can get away with small area for back support). Makes a big difference for your back which you can usually feel the next day.

Ride engine velcro belt/strap from their MEDIUM size harness (i bought separately and replaced the one which came with SMALL harness)

Mystic Kite 10/12 inch Clicker Bar
Since the Kite hook has some widening in the lip, it feels more secure when I ride and jump one handed hooked in and I very often do. Plus I don't have to change a thing when I go kiting.

Also I feel that it's a mistake windsurfers are not looking at kitesurfing harnesses as they are better made.

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leto said..
...
Also I feel that it's a mistake windsurfers are not looking at kitesurfing harnesses as they are better made.

Interesting! So mystic makes better kite harnesses than windsurf harnesses on purpose!!!!
Better :
www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/arch-waist-harness-kite#000000
Worse :
www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/arch-waist-harness-wind#000000
Better :
www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/foil-seat-harness-kite#000000
Worse :
www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/race-boa-waist-seat-harness-wind#000000
And these ones have a built in sensor and they disintegrate if you go windsurfing
www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/star-hybrid-waist-harness-multi-use#000000https://www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/harnesses/majestic-x-hardshell-waist-harness-multi-use#000000

Duzzi, mate I believe you can answer these questions yourself if you look at the history of Mystic.

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leto said..
Duzzi, mate I believe you can answer these questions yourself if you look at the history of Mystic.

I don't think I asked a question ... I was just jokingly pointing out that Mystic makes both Kite AND Windsurf harnesses. So the kite harnesses cannot really be better than the windsurf ones ...

What is the difference between a kite harness and a windsurfing harness, apart from the hook and the thing at the back that other people have to hang onto to save the kiter?

Mystic is a kite equipment company and as Philn said, they just put windsurfing hooks on same harnesses. cheers

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philn said..
What is the difference between a kite harness and a windsurfing harness, apart from the hook and the thing at the back that other people have to hang onto to save the kiter?

That's mostly it, although some, like the Liberty, are quite windsurf specific. But that's why Kite harnesses, contrary to the statement I was replying to, are in general not built any better than Windsurf harnesses ... nor have some magic ingredient that was somehow missing from a windsurf harness. Both kinds, with few exceptions, are built by the same companies.

But we are off track: nothing to do with the problem that dhat was trying to address. There is nothing magic about a hardshell waist harness: it will ride up if you pull on it from the top, and that is what happens if you find yourself hooked in in sub-planing conditions ...

Well written wrong conclusion. But, hey, who cares... Harness riding up is not my problem..

Select to expand quote

leto said..
Manuel7 and Philn. You nailed it. Want to add details... since the harness I customized a bit

A year ago or so my super old Prolimit harness almost fell apart and I started doing research. What I came to were 2 hardshell carbon harnesses. RideEngine and Mystic. Both were amazing but RideEngine was on sale for like $130 and Mystic was around $400. So I read some more info that Mystic basically copied (keeping politically correct) RE design and then it was an obvious choice which to get. Since I windsurf and I kite I also bought RE kite and windsurf bar. Then this summer I met a buddy on the beach who was wearing same RE harness and said that their hooks are junk and handled me the Mystic Kitesurfing Clickerbar. That bar, man... it's a dream. Makes a huge difference because it sits on the top of that big rubber cushion which has a bit more thickness above the bar and the wings (find pics online) go right into the sides. It doesn't ride up a centimeter and it doesn't matter if the harness is loose or not and it spreads pressure so so nicely..

Here is what i have for my 32.5-34 inch waist (given I add thick winter wetsuit...

Ride hardshell Carbon Engine Harness - SMALL
(I ordered S and M but left S and M wasn't as snug. Hardsheell also spreads load so nicely that you can get away with small area for back support). Makes a big difference for your back which you can usually feel the next day.

Ride engine velcro belt/strap from their MEDIUM size harness (i bought separately and replaced the one which came with SMALL harness)

Mystic Kite 10/12 inch Clicker Bar
Since the Kite hook has some widening in the lip, it feels more secure when I ride and jump one handed hooked in and I very often do. Plus I don't have to change a thing when I go kiting.

Also I feel that it's a mistake windsurfers are not looking at kitesurfing harnesses as they are better made.

Oh well, my Ion Radium Elite 2018 just broke the bar ... struggling to find a replacement, Da Kine might work, but the harness had already the problem of freezing buckles ... so now following up on Leto's suggestion I am curious about Ride Engine. Ride Engine has a 2021 spreader bar and harness system that looks fantastic: no more straps! The price tag is a bit gasp inducing at around US $400 .... any feedback?

Kite bars are dangerous!!!! mid the hook twists the lines it won't come apart. No thanks.

If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

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cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

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Basher said..

cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

Yep, what Basher said, with the correct stance a waist harness will get pulled down, not up.


with the addition: kite specific hooks have outward bend at the hook end to help keep their small semi rigid loop captured. You'd think that wouldn't matter, but i've been trapped twice under a sail with my harness lines twisted up around the hook. Fine with a windsurf hook because you can still slide them off. Kite hook though you have to untwist yourself to get loose.

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dhat said..

Again why I love the Transit harness from FO. Its a waist hook position, but tighten the leg straps and the one that retains the hook can pull it down lower and make it almost like a seat harness for the B&J or marginal days. And now they don't make it anymore

This one?

www.cygnus-sails.com/item-Flying_Objects_Transit_Harness.html

I've had the flying objects harness for a few years. It was pretty good. The strap to hold the spreader bar down was neat but I had to wonder if it was added because the hook kept riding up. Mine did. It was pretty well made an lasted but I was worried it might break soon so I decided to buy another harness so at least I had a working spare. I bought a Severne Pod. I've only used it once in crap conditions and it was super comfortable and the hook didn't ride up. I'll have to wait and see how it works in windy conditions. Interestingly there is a clip that has to be pressed before the side clip can be released. I'm going to make sure I get adept at using it.

www.revolutionboardsports.com.au/collections/windsurf-accessories/products/pod

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Basher said..

cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

It is true, it is impossible to be in your "correct sailing" stance all the time, and as you said yourself at least when slogging it will put upward, and your body shape can help or hinder that. Also there are different types of sailing, I would suggest lightwinds and big rigs with high booms it is difficult to not have some upward pull on the harness, and in fact at times you want it.

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Subsonic said..

Basher said..

cald said..
If you are shaped like a donut the waist harness is going to ride up, if you are V shaped not so much, this is from experience, in my 20s i was a donut, seat harness only for both windsurf and kites. I dissolved the donut now I can wear waist for both and it is so much more comfortable...

So the answer, less pies and beers, more pushups and pullups...

Curious to what the problem is with the kite hooks? I use a kite harness for both Its just a basic stainless hook?

Not true.
If you are in correct sailing stance then harness lines pull outwards. Body shape makes no difference.
The only upwards pull is when slogging.

The solution here is invariably not to change harness - but to adjust sailing stance.

The kite hook 'solution' is also another distraction from the true issue.
For sure, kite loads are different from windsurf harness line loads. A kite harness won't solve your windsurf stance problems.

Yep, what Basher said, with the correct stance a waist harness will get pulled down, not up.


with the addition: kite specific hooks have outward bend at the hook end to help keep their small semi rigid loop captured. You'd think that wouldn't matter, but i've been trapped twice under a sail with my harness lines twisted up around the hook. Fine with a windsurf hook because you can still slide them off. Kite hook though you have to untwist yourself to get loose.

Cheers for the hook explanation, I shall check mine out.

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Mark _australia said..
Kite bars are dangerous!!!! mid the hook twists the lines it won't come apart. No thanks.

What Kite bar? The Unity bar comes in Kite, Windsurf or Rope versions, and shown is the windsurf one. For a description of the system see and

I actually figured that the windsurf C-bar from ION should fit my broken 2018 Ion Elite. But, if I can still get one, I think I'll keep it as a spare and get the Ride Engine too ... it completely eliminates buckles and straps: finally!!!!!!!!!

I use Neil pryde waist harness with the lowest hook and I don't have any problems with riding up.